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In Reply to: Cannot work with two sats crossed to one sub at 300Hz posted by sdv5 on January 13, 2009 at 01:26:32:
Believe me, I thought the same thing as you did when I saw the setup and learned the facts afterwards. As a DIY loudspeaker designer, rule #256 is that you CANNOT cross to a sub above 100Hz (preferrably 80Hz) due to localization. I think I know why they were able to pull it off.....
The integration was seemless and that was using demo material which had lowish solo voices being used (hear Amazing Grace done well lately?) and also male speaking voice (during the drum solo, the drummer begins speaking and asking questions to the engineer recording him). Let me tell you, that drummers voice came from way back in the stage, placed perfectly behind the drum kit. Also, the female vocalists voice in "Amazing Grace" was as full bodied as I heard as ANYTHING at the show. It sounded like she was THERE. This is in sharp contrast to the thin, bright, and lean sound that most loudspeaker manufacturers get at CES with its poor conditions.
I think the thing helping the demo was their choice to use 2 of the woofer bins, in a stereo setup right next to the sats. This obviously "fixed" the issue of having possible localization that may have happened with just 1 of their woofers off to the corner. Using one, would most likely have caused vocals to be pulled that way.
The second thing helping was their use of "planar magnetic" woofers as opposed to traditional types. I have always sort of rolled my eyes when Magnepan gets on their soapbox and proclaims, "no sub in the world can integrate well with our speakers". Well, Wendell got on that same soapbox during the demo, and again, I rolled my eyes. He spoke of how they tried several dynamic woofers, even $2k each types with the mini-mags, and STILL were not happy with the results and integration. You see, I have had tremendous success mating Maggies to traditional dynamic subs in my lifetime, so I have always sort of scoffed this whole thing off. Well, I was wrong. The overall sound was like one large panel, not 4 seperate sources. I really think they ARE on to something then in their use of the "planar magnetic" woofers as the integration from top to bottom was PERFECT. So, I don't know, maybe somehow using "planar magnetic" woofers helps to minimize the effect of localization that we have all come to expect with a setup like this crossed a 3 times higher a frequency then what we know to be "correct".
I read reviewer Alan Taffel's mini-review linked above and he states the same thing I heard:
"I must say that while I was truly surprised at the form factor of the Mini-Maggie, I was dumbfounded to learn that I had been listening to anything other than a single, integrated speaker. Magnepan ensured the seamless blend between these (now two) mystery speakers by making them both ribbon drivers. They had tried mating the new sats with cone woofers, with the unsurprising result that the dynamic drivers simply could not keep up with the ribbons. So the company figured out how to make a ribbon woofer that didn’t tower over one’s head. The common technology and gentle driver rolloff slopes ensured the uncannily natural blend I heard."
So I guess to say it "Cannot Work" would be a bit short-minded. It DID work, too bad you weren't there to witness it!!!
Regards,
Joel
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Follow Ups
- It worked with two sats crossed to two woofers at 300Hz - joeljoel1947 08:47:41 01/13/09 (3)
- Two subs make a huge difference relative to one - sdv5 10:27:21 01/13/09 (2)
- Yep, not the best wording on my part. - joeljoel1947 11:07:41 01/13/09 (1)
- Woofers for sale - EmailTim 13:08:16 01/13/09 (0)
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