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Entry level - Music Hall MMF or Pro-ject 1.2?

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Posted on March 5, 1999 at 13:54:18
Bill


 
These seem to be the recommended entry level TT that I've seen. My lp collection hasn't been touched in 5 years because my old crappy Kenwood TT died. Given that I have only a mid-fi system, Yamaha rx-v590, Parardigm Minis, M&K sub, etc, and I really don't want to spend a lot of cash, what is generally considered the better table? I probably won't upgrade the cartridge for awhile so maybe it would come down which has the better cart. I can get either of these next weekend on sale at my local dlr, so any and all opinions will be appreciated.

 

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Re: Entry level - Music Hall MMF or Pro-ject 1.2?, posted on March 5, 1999 at 15:11:10
Thomas


 
I'd save some money and go with the MMF as they're practically clone tables. Many folks prefer the cartridge that comes with the MMF. Consider getting a Ringmat and a new cartridge in the future for greatly improved sound.

Thomas

 

Re: Entry level - Music Hall MMF or Pro-ject 1.2?, posted on March 5, 1999 at 16:14:09
Oakroot


 
Get which ever one is cheapest - neither cartridge is really outstanding, but will surfice your entry level postion into vinyl nicely. The overall sonic picture of either will make you happy. Good Luck!

 

Re: Entry level - Music Hall MMF or Pro-ject 1.2?, posted on March 5, 1999 at 16:21:21
Vinylly


 
Why not just up it a little and get the Rega Planer 2.

 

Re: Entry level - Music Hall MMF or Pro-ject 1.2?, posted on March 5, 1999 at 21:35:11
Bill


 
My handy sale flyer gives a price of $440 for the Planer 2 with no mention of a cartridge. Though I'd love to up the stakes, I do have other obligations, like a wife and family. And boating season is right around the corner. And that damn ski trip. And I'm 2K miles over my lease that is up in JULY!!! etc etc. Speaking of the wife, the big 10 year anniv. is at the end of next month and I've got to come up with some serious diamonds. That means earrings, gents, not Goldrings. Thanks for the advice, but my wallet won't let me swim with the big fishes just yet. But wait, the tax refund....

 

Re: Entry level - Music Hall MMF or Pro-ject 1.2?, posted on March 6, 1999 at 00:53:33
Oakroot


 
The Planar 2 does come with a cartridge - the lower line Rega, but still a $125 cartridge - better than either the Sumiko or Goldring (just incase you decide not to put too many carats into those earings). :-)

 

I agree, posted on March 6, 1999 at 08:06:26
Jack G


 
If you decide to save money, get the Music hall over the Pro-ject . Is cheaper, and comes with a better cart. If you get the ringmat, for an aditional $80, the combo will trounce the project, for the same money.
Or, you can get the rega, or preferably a VPI...
Jack
PS. don't forget a record cleaner.

 

Re: Entry level - Music Hall MMF or Pro-ject 1.2?, posted on March 8, 1999 at 06:42:22
Jeff B


 
Actually, the Rega does not normally come with a cartridge, but its' cousin, the NAD 533 (a Planar 2 with MDF platter instead of glass) comes with a Goldring cartridge. This table is better sounding and better made than the Pro-ject. The NAD/Rega is a British made table while the Pro-ject is made in the Czech Republic. Better quality control on the Rega/NADs. The NAD can be had for $350 discounted and, again, is sufficiently better than the Pro-ject 1.2. The arm that comes with the NAD is the much regarded Rega RB250, an arm supplied with many much higher end turntables. Noone is going to rave about the arm on the Pro-ject.

 

Follow up, Thanks guys., posted on March 8, 1999 at 07:49:00
Bill


 
Thanks for all the opinions. I was able to bring a demo MMF home to listen to Saturday and Sunday. I have to say I was surprised by the sound. Some LP’s sounded great while others seemed muffled. There is obviously more variation in quality with vinyl than with CD’s, although I have some pretty lousy sounding CD’s. When it was good , it was really good, but when it was bad, it was friggin terrible. Overall, the sound seemed a little "compressed". Maybe that’s because I’m looking at a lower end table, maybe my LP’s aren’t 180 gram audiophile stuff , and maybe I’ve been listening clean, noiseless CD’s too long. I will probably get the MMF next weekend as it should be at least 15% off ( the salesman couldn’t tell me exactly). I liked the sound and the clean uncluttered look. It was nice to be able to hear it at home and get a baseline for when I listen to other units in the store. I must say, though, I am a sucker for the convenience of CD’s. Thanks again for all the help. Well, off to the jewelry store...

 

Re: Follow up, Thanks guys., posted on March 8, 1999 at 12:23:38
Jack G


 
>>> When it was good , it was really good, but when it was bad, it was friggin terrible.<<<
Yes, thats true-I have some LPs, that I swear were made in someone's basement(the cucumbers come to mind), othrs are sublime.

>>>Overall, the sound seemed a little "compressed".<<<
Some of that is the cartridge that comes with it, and some compression can be remedied with a ringmat. Also remember, that Pop/rock from the 60s-80s wasn't very well recorded as a general rule, and you'll notice that quite readily(you didn't mention what you listened to).
enjoy,
jack

 

Re: Follow up, Thanks guys., posted on March 8, 1999 at 13:47:37
Oakroot


 
Your welcome - enjoy your foray into vinyl. :-)

 

wait!, posted on March 8, 1999 at 13:47:47
Look for a used Thorens, you can add a cart and get good sound. I have a Thorens TD165 it needs some tweaking but I can let it go for 75$ and a Stanton cart with low hours included. I'll be honest about its mechanical condition its not spectacular, but I'd put it against the Music Hall any day. If you are handy soldering cables, then this could be a good buy for you.The Music Hall and Project are good tables, I think you'll enjoy either one. I'm not trying to push my used garb on you, I'm just in need of car insurance money. (poor high school student) Good Luck!

 

Re: Entry level - Music Hall MMF or Pro-ject 1.2?, posted on March 8, 1999 at 13:50:26
Oakroot


 
Are you sure the Rega does not come with a cartridge? The Dealer in Seattle always sold them with a Rega cartidge for the $450 list price. I know two other dealers that do this also. Are they being nice guys or is this Rega policy? Curious...

 

Re: Entry level - Music Hall MMF or Pro-ject 1.2?, posted on March 8, 1999 at 14:11:41
Jeff B


 
I think rather than discount the price, they throw on an entry-level cartridge. That is the dealer's doing, not Rega's. I'd prefer a discount and pick my own cartridge, but, hey .......

 

Re: Follow up, Thanks guys., posted on March 8, 1999 at 20:46:50
Bill


 
The MMF2 that I got for the demo did have a felt mat that was probably 1/8 inch thick. Was this a Ringmat, or just a mat?(excuse me, is my ignorance showing?) I would think that it may not have been since I've seen it mentioned here with a cost of $80. Tell me this piece of simple felt couldn't possibly be that much.(Great, now my cheapness is showing.) Or is this like boating..."you need a carb rebuild.. that's $300" and "you need new spark plugs... that's $300". To answer you as to what was good and bad:
Bad-- Stones - "Big hits", old London mono recording(understandable), Jonathan Richman-- "Its time for". Again somewhat understandable, not a big star or label
Talking Heads - "Speaking in Tongues" Shrill highs on 'This Must be the Place', hard to listen to, disapointing.
Good-- Joe Jackson - "Right or Wrong" 12" promo single. Bowie - "Let's Dance"(Cat People). Talking Heads "True Stories" All sounded great.
Stones - "Tattoo You". Even my 5 and 2 year olds were jamming to 'Neighbors'.
The Clash - "London Calling" This is why I rekindled my interest in LP's, not having heard this in so long.
It was a rather nostalgic weekend and I didn't even scratch the surface (hah) of my collection. I really don't mean to monopolize you guys, but would a foray into the used market be a good alternative to the MMF2?


 

Re: Follow up, Thanks guys., posted on March 9, 1999 at 05:09:36
Jack G


 
No, the felt mat isn't a ringmat-if your cheap sense bothers you, wait till you see the ringmat-you'll say "I paid $80 for this?", but its worth it. want bad sound? try stones' sticky fingers *shudder*.
the used market is a good alternative, if you can find a good buy(duh), and know what your doing-I don't so I didn't.
enjoy,
Jack
PS. Lps are great for that nastalgic feeling.:-)

 

Re: Entry level - Music Hall MMF or Pro-ject 1.2?, posted on March 9, 1999 at 23:05:00
T. Buns


 
I feel I need to say something. I'm on my second MMF-2, and this one just broke! My first one had a terrible buzzing problem that I narrowed down to the leads going into the cart. My second one didn't have the buzzing problem but the left channel doesn't work. I'll be damned if I can pinpoint the problem. I'm going to have my dealer take a look at it. I'm really bummed, half of my music is on vinyl.

 

CAUTION !!! RED FLAG !!!!!, posted on March 11, 1999 at 07:38:12
Vinylly


 
This is the second complaint on Music Hall build quality, (see Audio Review). One fellow is complaining about wabbly platter, now this. If vinyl is to be revived and newbe's are getting their feet wet with entry level TT's, we don't need this. What we need is a substantial TT's that sound good without constant fussing, plug-an-play, and durable TT's that won't let you down. Better consider Rega-2 or Project.

 

Re: Entry level - Music Hall MMF or Pro-ject 1.2?, posted on March 11, 1999 at 07:49:44
J.P.


 
The dealer in Seattle, whom I know who you are referring to, does not sell Rega's at a discount. He puts the cheapest Rega carts. in them and they are still much higher priced then,say, Lyle Cartridges would sell it. And, incidently, this same dealer was selling a used Gyrodec for almost the same price as Audio Advisor does, new.

 

Re: Follow up, Thanks guys., posted on March 11, 1999 at 07:58:10
Werner


 
Buying used is great. In the past I helped someone
finding a used TT, and he ended up with a Linn Axis
for $230. Now he's also looking into a Thorens TD-316
for $140 or so. I myself once found a TD-160 for
$70.

The drawback of going S/H is that you need quite some
experience in analogue to separate the chaff from the
wheat. Even then your buy may require a bit of
refurbishing and adjusting work.

More tips at ViA...

 

Re: CAUTION !!! RED FLAG !!!!!, posted on March 11, 1999 at 08:09:23
Bill


 
The demo mmf2 had a slight warp in the platter. Crap, just when I thought I had it figured out too. I will try to find a NAD dealer this weekend, otherwise I may get the Planer 2.

 

OUCH!, posted on March 11, 1999 at 11:13:05
Jack G


 
Didn't know they had QC problems.
Jack

 

Re: CAUTION !!! RED FLAG !!!!!, posted on March 11, 1999 at 13:18:31
Jeff B


 
Music Hall IS a Pro-ject. The problem here is that while they are Austrian designed, their factory is in the Czech Republic. Rega tables (and the cousin NAD 533) are designed and built in Britain. They have been around for many decades and the design hasn't changed much, therefore development costs are low. This is partly why they can produce quality arms like the RB250 and RB300 that cost so relatively little.

Stick with Rega tables (or the NAD).

 

Re: CAUTION !!! RED FLAG !!!!!, posted on March 11, 1999 at 13:22:08
Bill


 
Thanks for the info. So it sounds like the red flag may also be emblazoned with a hammer and sickle? hmmm .. a little scary.

 

Pro-Ject arms, posted on March 11, 1999 at 23:45:29
Werner


 
Just to complete the current status-quo:

Pro-Ject is selling arms to Thorens and to
Clearaudio.


W

 

Re: Pro-Ject arms, posted on March 12, 1999 at 08:28:30
Thomas


 
The arm on my 6.9 is quite superb and doesn't take a back seat to the RB300.

Thomas

 

Get Project, rega or something else but not MH, posted on March 17, 1999 at 06:06:52
roy


 

Don't get the Music Hall. I've heard nothing but complaints about build quality, even though a properly set up Music Hall sounds good. The Rega Planar 2 or NAD equivalent is a better entry level rig.

 

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