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Vinyl Flat - thin and light records

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Posted on June 3, 2022 at 09:31:59
Akolegov88
Audiophile

Posts: 326
Joined: January 7, 2014
I've been using the Vinyl Flat/Groovy Pouch set for approx. 6 years (I have the latest version of Groovy Pouch with a control unit). In my experience, I have best results with modern productiion records (mostly 180 g). Sometimes other people ask me to flatten their warped records, some of which are very light and thin. Today I purchased kithen scales and weighed some of their records: Nazareth "Hair of the Dog" (A&M, made in the US, is 103 g), Nazareth "Play'n'the Game' (A&M, also made in the US, is 110 g) and Krokus "Blitz" made by Arista in the US is 107 g.
I had an unfortunate experience before - I melted some light records (made by Arista, Geffen and RCA) using an ORB vinyl flattener and one or two records using the Vinyl Flat/Groovy Pouch.
Now that I have the scales, I can weigh records and refrain from using the Vinyl Flat/Groovy Pouch set.
Would you audiophiles and music lovers advise me whether 103g-110g LPs are too light for Vinyl Flat/Groovy Pouch and, hence, it would be too risky and dangerous to flatten them?

Your opinions will be much appreciated.

 

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RE: Vinyl Flat - thin and light records, posted on June 3, 2022 at 10:01:42
Sondek
Audiophile

Posts: 8170
Location: Fort Worth
Joined: May 17, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
April 5, 2002
Is shortening the time in the VF/GP the answer to lighter weight records?

I do not know the answer, but it seems logical.

Six hours total is what I used for normal weight. Four hours heat on, and then a two hour of heat off/cool-down in the pouch. Maybe a 4-5 hour total cycle is the answer to light-weights? Two on and two off, or three on and two off?

Just spitballin'.

 

RE: Vinyl Flat - thin and light records, posted on June 3, 2022 at 10:23:12
Akolegov88
Audiophile

Posts: 326
Joined: January 7, 2014
Six hours? Do you use the older version of Groovy Pouch without a three-position (LOW, MEDIUM and HIGH) temperature control unit?

When I used the older version, I could leave a record in the Pouch for overnight and even longer without any damage. With the newer version - yes, I will reduce the time and check the temperature and will see what happens.

 

RE: Vinyl Flat - thin and light records, posted on June 3, 2022 at 13:44:50
Sondek
Audiophile

Posts: 8170
Location: Fort Worth
Joined: May 17, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
April 5, 2002
Control looks like this ... just on/off. No adjustment. I bought it new a bit over a year ago.




 

RE: Vinyl Flat - thin and light records, posted on June 3, 2022 at 13:50:22
Akolegov88
Audiophile

Posts: 326
Joined: January 7, 2014



Your version is newer than mine, mine is shown in the pic below:

 

RE: Vinyl Flat - thin and light records, posted on June 3, 2022 at 14:03:43
M3Man
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: May 30, 2004
I bought my VF/GP about 3 years ago. It has no temp control. The instructions said to run it for one hour and fifteen minutes, then allow record to cool. If there is no change, and it is still warped, run it for an hour and a half. Keep adding 15 minutes until it starts to flatten. Then run it again, and add five minutes. Keep adding five minutes until it is playable.

I have a thermometer probe inside the pouch, and it never gets above 125 degrees. I have never damaged a record, and I've done between 50 and 100 records.

 

I've used my own Vinyl Flat and Groovy Pouch on thin pressings., posted on June 3, 2022 at 15:12:23
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 24708
Joined: July 14, 2017
Like RCA Dynaflex. With success.
Caveat: I got one of the early Groovy Pouches, don't know if they still work the same.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

I use the archaeological method at my place, posted on June 3, 2022 at 20:39:05
beach cruiser
Audiophile

Posts: 5823
Location: so cal
Joined: September 24, 2003
Since this type of vinyl has a memory, any problematic records I have are simply crammed by into my storage, where space is so tight I have gone to outside covers on every other stored album to save the room, and presto, years later they come out as flat as when made.

now that that is out of the way, I can"t resist suggesting the old manual solution of putting the record between two sections of window glass and carefully warming them in the sun light.

I suppose the automatic aspects have won the day for the people who are very satisfied with the vinyl flat product, but the hands on approach is universal, and unquestionably cheaper.

I post this method to give an easy an affordable alternative to those who might have just a couple of warped records or might not be aware there are alternatives to buying a multi hundred dollar solution to the same problem .

Last time I mentioned the sunlight method, a got slapped around pretty harshly by some touchy vinyl flat owners, so this time, I omitted the $300 pizza delivery sleeve comparisons .

 

RE: I've used my own Vinyl Flat and Groovy Pouch on thin pressings., posted on June 3, 2022 at 21:26:12
Akolegov88
Audiophile

Posts: 326
Joined: January 7, 2014
As far as I remember, my early Groovy Pouch was quite safe.

 

RE: I use the archaeological method at my place, posted on June 3, 2022 at 21:31:10
Akolegov88
Audiophile

Posts: 326
Joined: January 7, 2014
'Two sections of window glass' is a famous vinyl flattening method here as well, but I've never practiced it...

 

My routine is to leave the LP in there for 12 hours., posted on June 4, 2022 at 04:02:15
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 24708
Joined: July 14, 2017
Followed by 12 hours in the Vinyl Flat until it's completely cool.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

RE: My routine is to leave the LP in there for 12 hours., posted on June 4, 2022 at 06:34:40
Akolegov88
Audiophile

Posts: 326
Joined: January 7, 2014
Then you have the older GP version...I did the same when I used it.

 

RE: Vinyl Flat - thin and light records, posted on June 5, 2022 at 03:24:11
flood2
Audiophile

Posts: 2342
Joined: January 11, 2011
I successfully flatten all weights of records in my VF in both the old and the new pouch. The second variant I got was about 2 years ago with a 3 position switch.
The essential step is to calibrate the temperature - you need to get the vinyl up to 54C. Work out the time based on the temperature/time relationship.
Regards Anthony

"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats

 

RE: Vinyl Flat - thin and light records, posted on June 5, 2022 at 04:27:23
Akolegov88
Audiophile

Posts: 326
Joined: January 7, 2014
Thanks, I will follow your recommendation.

 

When you reach 54C, what's your next step. I have the old VF. nt, posted on June 5, 2022 at 17:52:25
alaskahiatt
Audiophile

Posts: 6615
Joined: December 9, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
November 1, 2005
nt

 

RE: When you reach 54C, what's your next step. I have the old VF. nt, posted on June 5, 2022 at 19:20:25
flood2
Audiophile

Posts: 2342
Joined: January 11, 2011
That is the temperature you want between the felt.
On my original pouch, it took about 2 hours to get there and was stable. I leave it for about 2 hours for 180g vinyl and then I worked out it took about 2 hours to cool down to close to ambient.
The best thing is to program a timer to automatically switch off the pouch after your target time (which in my case is about 4 hours), then come back to it in say 3 hours to check.

The top platten is heavier than the bottom, so for best results - particularly with potato chip warps, I flip the record over and do a second cycle.
As I rely a lot on mail order, I get some pretty badly warped/dished discs due to the hot conditions en route and the VF totally fixes those discs. I treat flattening a disc as part of the cleaning process these days.

Regards Anthony

"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats

 

Thanks a lot. Sorry about the mail order problems. I would have thought, posted on June 5, 2022 at 22:25:45
alaskahiatt
Audiophile

Posts: 6615
Joined: December 9, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
November 1, 2005
that New Zealand's range of latitudes would not be a problem. Of course, a long trip in a non air conditioned vehicle or a long time in a parked vehicle in sunny weather could damage an LP even in my Alaska location.

 

RE: Thanks a lot. Sorry about the mail order problems. I would have thought, posted on June 6, 2022 at 01:21:38
flood2
Audiophile

Posts: 2342
Joined: January 11, 2011
I think it is a problem no matter where one is - during Summer, the courier vans get very hot and I have received parcels straight from the van into my hands that were very warm to the touch - sure enough the discs would be warped. It doesn't help that oftentimes the sender has stacked CDs on one side of a record in a mailer that is not thick enough.... ideally they would have been distributed more evenly (sigh).
Even if it is Winter on my side, the "heat" problem exists on the other side or in transit somewhere particularly in the last 2 years where mail from Europe takes the scenic route before eventually turning up months later!

People often complain about warped records as though they are pressing plant defects. However, I'm finding that the shrink wrap is overly tight on many records - the cover remains bowed even after the disc is removed and of course that is exactly how the discs come out - even with box sets.

For me, I don't stress about warped discs anymore. What I care more about (other than the music) is that the disc is centred properly and there are no seam splits, or other cover damage.
Why in this day and age do with computer controlled vision systems do we have to put up with off-centred discs!!!
Regards Anthony

"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats

 

RE: When you reach 54C, what's your next step. I have the old VF. nt, posted on June 6, 2022 at 13:18:18
Akolegov88
Audiophile

Posts: 326
Joined: January 7, 2014
When I reach 54C, I switch off the power and let it cool down for several hours (I've been told that the cooling time must exceed the heating time), then check the results. Then repeat, if necessary.

 

Thank you. nt, posted on June 6, 2022 at 16:35:14
alaskahiatt
Audiophile

Posts: 6615
Joined: December 9, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
November 1, 2005
nt

 

RE: Vinyl Flat - thin and light records, posted on June 10, 2022 at 07:45:42
SteveM324
Audiophile

Posts: 164
Location: Michigan, USA
Joined: January 25, 2002
I got a VF and GP for my birthday this year. I've only done about 5 LPs but I use the GP set at medium for 2 hours at 130-140F and then I let it cool down for 2 hours before opening it. So far, it's worked out extremely well. I've done various LPs from 140-180gm. I monitor the temperature and usually it's around 133F at the medium setting.

 

RE: Vinyl Flat - thin and light records, posted on June 14, 2022 at 15:39:11
Akolegov88
Audiophile

Posts: 326
Joined: January 7, 2014
I usually do the same.

 

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