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Another thread about the Hagerman Bugle 2.

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Posted on February 11, 2021 at 17:19:15
Quadzilla
Audiophile

Posts: 4163
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Joined: July 31, 2003
 I bought a used Hagerman Bugle 2 on an impulse this week for a very good price, mainly because of the positive comments by a number of Asylum inmates. It is the 50 dB gain version, and I hoped it would work well with a Denon DL-160 that I haven't used in a long while.

I was concerned that the 680 ohm loading impedance would be an issue, but it really does sound better than I expected. I can't find any overload specs, but I don't hear any distortion, even though the Denon is supposed to be connected to a MM preamp with a 47K ohm load.

I also tried it with my Audio Technica AT-28E LOMC and Grace F10L MOMC cartridges, and the results were equally-impressive. I noticed though, that newer Bugles are only available in 40 dB and 60 dB versions. They have done away with the 50 dB version. Any idea why that would be?

Does anyone have any upgrades or modifications they could suggest?




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RE: Another thread about the Hagerman Bugle 2., posted on February 12, 2021 at 10:52:20
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17296
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002



"I was concerned that the 680 ohm loading impedance would be an issue, "

It looks like just changing the value of one resistor (R23) would change that. Or omitting one resistor (R23) would make the input load 47.5k (R2).

Tre'
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Forgive my limited technical knowledge., posted on February 13, 2021 at 08:21:51
Quadzilla
Audiophile

Posts: 4163
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Joined: July 31, 2003



So, I can just remove two 100 ohm resistors (R23L & R23R in the drawing from the manual) altogether and it will then be a moving magnet preamp? That seems pretty straightforward, and it might be exactly what I need. I found a photo on the Internet that shows what I think we are talking about, but the two R1 resisters are also omitted. Am I on the right track here?

I have a Bryston TF-1 MC transformer that I could use for my LOMC cartridges.




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Thank you so much for your advice., posted on February 13, 2021 at 10:32:13
Quadzilla
Audiophile

Posts: 4163
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Joined: July 31, 2003
 I removed the R23 resistors as you suggested, and the results were exactly what I was looking for. My DL-160 HOMC cartridge sounds much more detailed, and using a SUT with my AT-28E was like lifting a blanket from in front of my speakers. All is well! Thanks again!




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RE: Another thread about the Hagerman Bugle 2., posted on February 13, 2021 at 11:07:16
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 Tre', What is the reason for R1? Seems to be in the wrong place for a gate-stop function. Thanks.

 

RE: Denon DL-160 & loading ..., posted on February 20, 2021 at 16:43:14
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12548
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 The 50dB gain of your Bugle 2 is just about perfect for the 1.6mV output of your Denon DL-160.

However 680 ohm load is not appropriate. :-(( The specs I found said that the cart has a coil impedance of 160 ohms; the mfr's recommendation is a load of 47K but I would suspect 16K would probably sound better (100x coil impedance).

The 680 ohm load will be throttling the DL-160 - so, if you can replace this resistor with 15K or 22K (which are standard values) ... you will hear a substantial improvement in air and soundstage open-ness.

Andy

 

RE: Denon DL-160 & loading ..., posted on February 20, 2021 at 17:28:54
Quadzilla
Audiophile

Posts: 4163
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Joined: July 31, 2003
 Hi Andy. Thanks for the reply. I have already made the change to 47k ohms, and I am currently using the Bugle with an Audio Technica AT28E LOMC cartridge with a Bryston TF-1 SUT.

That will let me use the few MM cartridges I have mounted up for that turntable. The DL-160 is an outlier, so I will probably get rid of it. All things being equal, I like the AT better anyway.




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RE: AT28E & loading ..., posted on February 21, 2021 at 18:41:31
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12548
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 I can't find the output figure for an AT28E but I notice the VE cart database gives two important characteristics:
1. recommended load is 47K.
2. coil impedance is 17ohms.

I wouldn't necessarily agree it will sound its best at 47K - but I would suspect 1700 ohms (100x coil impedance) would be very good.

Trouble is, your Bryston TF-1 SUT is either 16dB or 22dB gain - ie. 1:6 or 1:13 coil ratio. These 'reflect' the 47.5K loading which you set your Bugle to, to become a load for the cart of:
* 1:6 ... 1,319 ohms
* 1:13 ... 281 ohms.

If you are using the 16dB gain setting ... your AT28E may well be sounding near its optimal.

But if you are using the 22dB gain option ... I suggest the loading is too low. In which case, to see how the AT28E can really sound - you need to try out a head amp in place of the SUT. (Hagerman's "Piccolo" and G Slee's "Elevator" are two commonly available options.)

Andy

 

RE: AT28E & loading ..., posted on February 22, 2021 at 05:57:09
Quadzilla
Audiophile

Posts: 4163
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Joined: July 31, 2003
 There is a bit of confusion about the AT28E because there are actually two of them. One is moving magnet and the other is a low-output moving coil. I had a hard time finding the correct information too.




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