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Applied Fidelity Bearing Identification and advice.

83.100.174.222

Posted on January 10, 2017 at 04:16:10
wayne lab
Audiophile

Posts: 7
Location: Hull, United Kingdom
Joined: January 10, 2017



Good afternoon everyone, I'm a new member here and have joined hoping to get some advice as to what model of applied fidelity bearing I have on my technics 1210 and how to go about lubricating it and with what type of oil etc.
The bearing appears to me to have a black top to the bearing which is different to the stock bearing , it also does seem to have oil lubrication which I'm not 100% sure about, the previous owner of the turntable did turn the deck upside down to remove and replace the tone arm and I'm wondering did all of these bearings possibly drain oil if the deck is spun over ?, and what oil would be sort to replenish the well please?.
I realize that the owner of this company has passed recently so I'm finding it difficult to get any advice and there isn't a lot online .
The spindle is significantly longer thank the stock bearing spindle, I would take the table apart to take further pictures but I am wary of breaking anything.

Any advice very much appreciated.

 

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Can't tell from the picture, posted on January 10, 2017 at 05:17:51
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 1483
Location: Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
You would have to remove those 3 screws to pull the bearing out. However that may not be necessary. The simplest solution is to just buy the bearing oil from KAB or some other place and apply as you would a normal bearing. I think that is just fine, not sure you would tell any difference. Jim often recommended 30 weight oil for his bearings, but like I said on a smaller bearing like the Technics I'm not sure what difference it would make. The real upgrade is the materials he used not the oil IMHO!

Nate


You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields

 

RE: Can't tell from the picture, posted on January 10, 2017 at 05:29:46
wayne lab
Audiophile

Posts: 7
Location: Hull, United Kingdom
Joined: January 10, 2017
Can I ask if you have an idea which generation of the bearing this is please? I read on the old applied fidelity link on this forum that generation 2 bearings have a sealed oil well ( which I'm presuming doesn't require the oil to be replaced ) , thanks in advance.

 

RE: Can't tell from the picture, posted on January 10, 2017 at 05:44:13
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 1483
Location: Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
You would have to remove the bearing from the motor and take a picture. Remove those three screws and take out the bearing. You'll be able to tell if it is sealed or just an oil bath.

Nate

You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields

 

RE: Applied Fidelity Bearing Identification and advice., posted on January 10, 2017 at 06:28:27
louie3
Audiophile

Posts: 548
Location: Signal Mountain, TN
Joined: January 14, 2006
The Art of Sound forum has a section devoted to these turntables.

I suspect you might find the information you need there.

 

RE: Can't tell from the picture, posted on January 10, 2017 at 07:48:32
Mel
Audiophile

Posts: 1701
Location: New York City Area
Joined: February 21, 2001
Contributor
  Since:
January 1, 2017
I have nothing to add to this discussion specifically on the Technics bearing. However, about the oil: Jim upgraded my VPI non-inverted bearing and sent along some very special oil with it, and a clearly heavier grade than standard factory. I recall that it took a VERY long time for the bearing to settle in, so much so that I thought something was wrong. But he reassured me it would be fine and it was VERY fine.

 

RE: Applied Fidelity Bearing Identification and advice., posted on January 10, 2017 at 10:44:51
jkaschyk
Audiophile

Posts: 339
Joined: April 16, 2005
It's the Gen 3 sapphire bearing. It was the only one Jim made with the polymer sleeve you see in the picture, AFAIK. He said to use the synthetic oil he supplied with the bearing.

I have (or had) the same bearing. While it sounded marvelous, I had a huge issue with static. There is no path to ground as the spindle bearing is plastic and the thrust pad is sapphire. It was so bad in the winter months, that the static discharge would change the speed to 45 rpm on my SL-1200. Jim, rest his soul, swapped out the polymer sleeve for a bronze bearing at no charge.

So, I guess I have a Gen 2.5, now.

 

P.S., posted on January 10, 2017 at 10:52:46
jkaschyk
Audiophile

Posts: 339
Joined: April 16, 2005
The polymer bearing Gen 3 used an oil bath and came with a thinner synthetic than he gave me after the bronze bearing mod which was actually synthetic automotive differential gear oil and smells bad, but works great.

 

RE: P.S., posted on January 11, 2017 at 01:48:45
wayne lab
Audiophile

Posts: 7
Location: Hull, United Kingdom
Joined: January 10, 2017
Thank you for the help on this do you perhaps have any recollection as to what the exact oil Jim recommended please?, and how to insert it into the bearing sleeve, As I have no manual at all and no idea of what to do?. Will the oil drain out of this bearing if the deck is spun over for 30 minutes or so?, the previous owner of this deck didn't realize that it had an oil filled bearing and turned it over to service the deck sadly.
I will attempt to remove the bearing in the meantime to take a more accurate picture of it and report back. Jim really did make some great products for this deck and I'm sure his expertise will be greatly missed by all who have come to own his products late on such as myself.
I also have the delrin / aluminium platter mat which I think is absolutely superb , most definitely stops the platter ringing .

 

RE: P.S., posted on January 11, 2017 at 04:15:13
wayne lab
Audiophile

Posts: 7
Location: Hull, United Kingdom
Joined: January 10, 2017




Please see the image thanks

 

RE: P.S., posted on January 11, 2017 at 04:16:43
wayne lab
Audiophile

Posts: 7
Location: Hull, United Kingdom
Joined: January 10, 2017


To be honest I'm getting more confused I don't know whether that looks like grease that's in the inner lower additional well?. All the best Wayne

 

RE: P.S., posted on January 11, 2017 at 06:28:50
jkaschyk
Audiophile

Posts: 339
Joined: April 16, 2005
On my bearing, the whitish stuff you are referring to is a clear epoxy. It looks like Jim used a different material on yours. Inside that stuff is a brass(?) cup that holds the oil and sapphire thrust pad.

I really doubt any appreciable oil was lost by having the table upside down for 30 minutes. It likely just re-lubed the polymer sleeve. There should be enough oil in the well to last a lifetime. A drop or two on the shaft/sleeve once a year would be all you need. In fact, my bearing came dry and I added the oil, but after the modification, Jim shipped the bearing back in a small box with the well full. It was probably upside down and sideways for a long time in transit.

However, if you are ocd like me and most audio dudes, you can take a look by removing the two small screws underneath while keeping the bearing upright so as not to spill the oil. You can then fill the well if needed. On reassembly, be careful aligning the black o-ring that seals the well to the housing so it doesn't leak when tipped.

I don't know what kind of oil was used, but if you're in the U.S., I can send you mine. Jim gave me the smelly gear lube after installing the bronze sleeve and I have no use for the oil that came originally. PM me your address if you want it.

 

RE: P.S., posted on January 11, 2017 at 10:59:56
wayne lab
Audiophile

Posts: 7
Location: Hull, United Kingdom
Joined: January 10, 2017
Thank you very much for your help on this appreciated very much I actually live in the U.K., if you wish to have a think about posting over here to me I'd pay postage all my best and thanks again

 

RE: P.S., posted on January 11, 2017 at 11:43:13
jkaschyk
Audiophile

Posts: 339
Joined: April 16, 2005
You're welcome.

I really think the oil is none critical. I would use a straight weight synthetic. Anderol 465 synthetic bearing oil is what Technics sold as bearing oil. Amsoil and Red Line make a straight weight synthetic as well.

Jim said he tested these bearings by running them at something like 300 rpm for 12 hours (don't remember exactly) with no oil at all and was unable to detect any wear.

 

I do not think spinning it will cause any problems, posted on January 12, 2017 at 21:01:16
Penguin
Audiophile

Posts: 7098
Location: Maryland
Joined: August 5, 2001
The materials used in the bearing have some properties that make them almost indestructible. You are more likely to shatter it by dropping it, than destroying it spinning it dry. All that said almost any oil in the 30 W range will be fine. If you can find it in small quantities the perfect oil is a synthetic 30w turbine oil used for jet engines. I think that is what KAB sells :).


dee
;-D

True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.

quote by Kurt Vonnegut

 

RE: P.S., posted on January 14, 2017 at 01:16:47
wayne lab
Audiophile

Posts: 7
Location: Hull, United Kingdom
Joined: January 10, 2017
Can I ask a query regarding taking the bearing apart?, do you have to keep the bearing upright and remove the screws?, what happens then please?. Hopefully nothing will fall out when you remove the circular disc on the bottom?. Do you perhaps have the old manual which was supplied with the bearing please?. I thought perhaps that you turned the bearing over with the spindle pointing downwards to access. Any help appreciated and thanks to you for you much valued advice so far.

 

RE: P.S., posted on January 14, 2017 at 07:25:03
jkaschyk
Audiophile

Posts: 339
Joined: April 16, 2005
If you remove the screws without keeping it upright, the oil will run out. When the screws are removed, you'll be able to separate the upper part of the bearing from the bottom plate which is attached to the white stuff surrounding the oil well cup and thrust pad. Separating the two sections is the black o-ring I mentioned.

The only thing that you'll lose if not kept upright is the oil. Keeping it vertical is not difficult. If you were able to remove the bearing from the table, disassembling the bearing should be a piece of cake. There was no manual. Just an instruction sheet telling how to put oil in it. I don't have it any longer.

 

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