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Get off the grid.......Use an inverter

73.189.28.189
Posted on August 2, 2022 at 12:31:05
Ric Schultz
Manufacturer

Posts: 848
Joined: August 7, 2000
 This will frickin blow your mind.......you can buy the inverters mentioned, and batteries with money back.....so will cost you practically nothing to try

http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Inverter_Power.html

By the way, all inverters sound different.......the big Giandel sounds amazing.

Here is a review of a 1000 watt inverter that is super expensive and can only put out 450 watts continuous........the Giandel 5000 watt inverter mentioned on my site can put out 4000 watts all day. The Stomberg costs $16K......the Giandel with 2 200 amp hour batteries and charger costs $2.7K.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/stromtank-s-1000-computer-controlled-battery-power-source

I do not make money, sell or make anything at the moment that relates to inverters. I am just so excited about the revolutionary way a great inverter (plus the Puritan line filter) can completely transform a system, that I have to tell the world.....This has to be experienced.......Have you ever been experienced?

 

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RE: Get off the grid.......Use an inverter , posted on August 3, 2022 at 11:06:40
acres verde
Audiophile

Posts: 734
Location: Big Easy
Joined: November 13, 2004
 I don't understand the statement "...you can buy the inverter...and batteries and get money back...". Can you further clarify that for me?

 

RE: Get off the grid.......Use an inverter , posted on August 3, 2022 at 13:08:49
Ric Schultz
Manufacturer

Posts: 848
Joined: August 7, 2000
 with money back guarantee.......I thought people would understand my abbreviated langquage.......you can try an inverter and batteries.....and if you do not like the results send them back for refund.......you would only lose the shippng cost to return.

 

RE: Get off the grid.......Use an inverter , posted on August 3, 2022 at 14:57:16
acres verde
Audiophile

Posts: 734
Location: Big Easy
Joined: November 13, 2004
 Money back sounded to me like a rebate. Money back guarantee would have filled the bill nicely. No worries, it's all good

 

RE: Get off the grid.......Use an inverter , posted on August 5, 2022 at 08:52:51
HiOnFi
Audiophile

Posts: 1703
Location: Florida
Joined: January 11, 2004
 Why don't you post this in your own thread over at AG?

 

Have you looked at the wave form with a scope?, posted on August 10, 2022 at 07:19:57
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17587
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 .
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

This is very interesting., posted on August 10, 2022 at 09:07:28
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I trust Schultz's ears.

But , I too, would like to see a trace of the inverter's output in comparison to the AC from the line.

I do not doubt what they are hearing but I wonder how bad the AC is they are comparing this to?

Seems almost too good to be true when you read about people's love/hate relationships with stuff like the PUREPOWER. No doubt the PUREPOWER does not have 400 Ah of battery.

Another confusing thing is the AMAZON website where they mix in reviews for the 1500 watts version of the inverter with the recommended 5000 watts version. The 1500 watts version seems to be made to a completely different standard of quality or I hope it is. Lots of disappointed customers have bought that one.

I see MEANWELL has come out with a line of pure sine wave inverters - their highest power is rated at 2700 watts and is only about two hundred dollars less than the one at AMAZON. I figure the MEANWELL will perform to its published specification. I trust their products but someone I trust has heard the AMAZON one - so more audio confusion.

One must assume this unknown to me company really did this one RIGHT for the price they are asking. Again I trust trust Schultz's instincts here - he has seen and heard the device.

Cannot see spending huge money on LiFePo batteries to sit in a listening room. Weight is not a concern for me - except when it is around my waist, of course. Who knows where any of us will be in ten years the estimated life of the SLA SGM battery I am considering.

I am intrigued by this.

I have no idea if my AC is good or bad. One never knows until they try something like this.

Thanks for the notice and hope to read more. I am resisting with all of my weak will the desire to order these pieces today. I suspect i will fail.

 

RE: This is very interesting., posted on August 10, 2022 at 11:28:49
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3425
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 I think a lot of folks here are at least mildly curious. I'm just wondering if the "basic" set-up yields the same excellent results as the he-man set up? This would be in reference to excellent but less power hungry systems, or even systems which only see moderate use. Even at that, still don't know where all this would fit in my listening room without looking like the local BrakeMasters.

 

RE: This is very interesting., posted on August 10, 2022 at 11:48:28
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I would think those seeking less than the best would be wasting their time. I cannot imagine such folk even being interested. Zthis is defintely for the obsessed and mentally ill such as myself.

For all I know I will be wasting my time but I have always wondered if I am missing something.

I am about to make my order.

I cannot wait to see AMAZON deliver two 137 pounds batteries. I do not know how they will do that.

 

RE: This is very interesting., posted on August 10, 2022 at 15:46:48
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3425
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 Keep us posted. My gut tells me it just might be a roaring success, but I'll patiently wait and see what you find.

 

RE: This is very interesting., posted on August 11, 2022 at 08:59:06
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I ordered all of the stuff and then got cold ears and attempted to cancel it all.

Less then three minutes after ordering AMAZON tells me it is too late to cancel the inverter so it, I presume is on the way.

I think I will go ahead and order the batteries again. They were able to be cancelled!

I worry that once one is saddled with almost three hundred pounds of batteries which would cost a fortune to return does one find the sound superior?

I will let you know what I think I perceive.

Thanks for your comments.

 

RE: This is very interesting., posted on August 11, 2022 at 10:23:31
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3425
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 Good luck. I guess there's no turning back now. I've been hit with that "too late to cancel" scam myself. Yes, just minutes after ordering an item that I realized was going to take over a week to be delivered. The positive aspect was that the item was only $9.

 

You are the leader!, posted on August 11, 2022 at 14:50:11
hawkmoon
Audiophile

Posts: 912
Location: cleveland
Joined: July 11, 2003
 Look forward to the results.

 

RE: You are the leader!, posted on August 12, 2022 at 08:42:40
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 More proof that leaders are FOOLS!

What is funny is they told me the inverter could not be cancelled and this morning they tell me it will arrive on Thursday instead of the Monday initially promised.

 

RE: This is very interesting., posted on August 12, 2022 at 12:19:24
Ric Schultz
Manufacturer

Posts: 848
Joined: August 7, 2000
 Hundreds of lbs of batteries? Did you order LifePo4 batteries?......a single 200 amp hour battery only weighs 49lbs. Maybe you bought heavy AGM batteries? a 200 amp hour AGM weighs 125 lbs.

If you peruse reviews of various sine wave inverters you will see lots of pictures of the wave form these things put out......looks like a nice sine wave. Of course, if you magnify the scale you will see noise riding on it. As i stated.....all inverters sound different. When I was messing around with the Exeltech inverter back in the 90s I changed the output filter caps to Wondercaps for a sonic up tic.....and also did two other mods to that unit that made it "sound better". My friend uses the Puritan line filter after the Giandel.....for even better sound.....and he uses the Puritan Ground filter and has his own ground rod that he installed that is just for his stereo.....all these thing help......the results are INCREDIBLE!!!!!

Thank you for being a pioneer.....most sudiophiles are stick in the mud types......won't try new things till its on the cover or Stereophile. If I told you I invented an electric powered supercharger that gives you the same power boost.....but does not take 100 hp to run.....so in the end you get 100hp more.......I could sell a million of these things within months....It does not matter that it costs $5K or more........Car enthusiasts want more power.....they will pay right now for it. Audio is soooooooooooooooo subjecitve.........how many horsepower will the Inverter give me, you ask. I answer, well, you have to try it and see if YOU think it is an improvement. NO measured horsepower increase.....so then you are not interested.....no PROOF of it working......so then we just say....oh well, just another fringe thing.

It really takes a serious audiophile who REALLY wants to know what makes for better sound and will persue his goal to the end of the earth to get it. This is what my friend using the Gaindel system does......every single thing in his stereo system is researched.....thought about.....and tried. He rarely makes a mistake on what he buys because his is super bright, does lots of research.....and most of all "IS MOTIVATED". He listens to his stereo a lot and listens to all kinds of music. His system is worth about $80-90K. He has both digital and analog. I am going to speak to him soon and I will see if he will give me some pics of the entire system. If so, I will post them on my site. However, you do not need to spend that kind of money to get great sound. I will have more system recommendations on my site soon. Even $5-10K can be mind blowing.

 

Have it working, posted on August 15, 2022 at 08:13:45
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Was hoping it would be as revelatory as when I placed the MUTEC MC3+USB in the digital system but it is an improvement though I do have many hours of listening to do to really know.

It did not harm dynamics which was my concern. It does add spaciousness especially front to back - it is like the atmosphere of the recorded space is allowed to intrude further into the room.

The inverter says it is only using 640 watts which took me by surprise - I would have thought far more.

The PURITAN filter will not work in my system. I have my four main amplifiers connected to the "heavy appliance" output. No connectors. I have my ancillary components plugged into a power strip which I plug into one of the receptacles on the inverter. I would not want to have to use expensive ac plus to be able to use an expensive line filter. I am considering the ground filter.

(main speakers are bi-amplified Danley MEH inspired based upon the Klipsch K402 horn as designed by Chris A when he felt welcome at the Klipsch forum. I never thought I would own anything Klipsch. Amplifiers are class A designed by Zen Mod at DIYaudio using the Tokin THF51 SIT devices)

I use four 15 inches RYTHMIK subwoofers - using this many of them makes for light work for them. I plugged one of them into the inverter expecting it would have required more than 10 watts. I am going to connect two of the four to the inverter. The two in the back corners would require much too long power cords.

I go into all of this since I was concerned about the inverter being stressed. I does get a bit above warm and the fan never turned on.

I am glad I did this and I appreciate you bringing it up.

 

Ground filter with a dedicated grounding rod, posted on August 16, 2022 at 12:31:57
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Hope you are still looking in here.

If not where should one make posts?

I am going to install a dedicated grounding post for the inverter but cannot see the point of a two hundred dollars filter when the grounding point will not be shared with anything.

One would assume the ground to fairly quiet.

I could understand this if the rod was shared by other circuits.

What are your, or anyone else's, thoughts on this?

The inverter seems to get better with use. I find it seems to sound best with the battery meter reading 11.9 to 12.1 volts.

 

RE: Ground filter with a dedicated grounding rod, posted on August 16, 2022 at 15:39:31
Ric Schultz
Manufacturer

Posts: 848
Joined: August 7, 2000
 I think the ground post on the inverter is just for protection.....so would not make sense to ground it to its own ground rod. My friend with the Giandel has a separate ground rod for his entire stereo.....and the entire stereo has nothing to do with the house ground.....the wire from ground rod goes to the Puritan ground filter and at that point everything is grounded to it.

I just spoke to him.....The wiring on the Giandel (as shown on my site) is not what he is currently using. Right now he has no ground connection to the chassis. He is going to put the wire back on and see if it changes the sound. Also, the "ground wire" coming out of the Giandel terminal strip is not needed as there is nothing connected to that terminal inside the Giandel.

His sound is so incredible for 3 reasons..

1. Super inverter power
2. Puritan filter which filters noise made by the inverter and also separates and filters noise in each component....so no noise interaction of components
3. Separate ground rod and ground filter for the stereo.....this grounds optimally and gets rid of noise on the ground line.

There is no reason you cannot use a Puritan (or two) to power your entire system.....It handles tons of current. No limitation using his big JC-1+ amps. if you need more outlets then you can wire some dublexes into the Puritan....however, those outlets would share filtering and not be quite as good.

I you go to what's best forum and search "oeno"...(my friends name there)....you will see posts of him talking about the inverter system, etc.

You want to make sure you have disconnected the charger cable from the batteries when you listen.......even if the charger is off and unplugged it will still mess up the sound if its wires are connected to the batteries....My friend disconnects using the Anderson connector that comes with the charger.

 

RE: Ground filter with a dedicated grounding rod, posted on August 17, 2022 at 09:31:52
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I would never leave the charger connected when listening to music.

I am confused about his use of the ground post on the inverter.

If one has the whole system plugged into the inverter than all of the grounds (that are used) are going to the inverter and one would assume the inverter's ground post is the place they would converge.

I cannot bring myself to buy the PURITAN power strip. Maybe in time.

My amplifiers do not have a chassis ground since they do not possess metal chassis so I have no ground wire attached to the "heavy appliance outlet".

I have my power strip plugged into one of the receptacles along with, temporarily, one of the Rythmik woofers. I assume the ground connection there is tied to the inverter's ground post?

Thanks for the notice of where your friend has poisted more information about this.

I am enjoying music more but I worry it is the new as much as anything else. It will take a couple of weeks to know if there is something insidious going on - not that I suspect it.

Thanks, Ric

 

Whatsbest, posted on August 17, 2022 at 09:38:49
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I have never spent much time there so I have no idea how to navigate.

When I search for your friend I get a bunh of posts about a field coil driver - only one page.

Can you give us more to go on to see what he is up to?

 

RE: Whatsbest, posted on August 17, 2022 at 10:58:56
Ric Schultz
Manufacturer

Posts: 848
Joined: August 7, 2000
 he starts posting here about the Inverter system.....his system details are there too
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/rada-precious-one-phono.34842/page-3

 

RE: Ground filter with a dedicated grounding rod, posted on August 17, 2022 at 11:17:47
Ric Schultz
Manufacturer

Posts: 848
Joined: August 7, 2000
 As I described, the terminal strip has no ground connection. It is not clear whether the third pin on the AC outlets is grounded to that grounding post. He cannot get to his inverter very well, and he would have to turn it all off to check it with a continuity meter (he will test it...sometime)....Maybe you can be our "ground slueth". You can check for continuity between the ground post and the third pin on those sockets. They might all go to the chassis ground....in which case....then you could use the chassis post as your main ground post. He is doing something quite different. He is using the point on the Puritan Ground filter as his main ground point.....and this is where his wire comes from his grounding rod. He only uses one socket on the Inverter because he needs more than the 6 on the Puritan.....and maybe that is why he thought it might have sounded better without a ground wire on the Giandel.....if his component that he plugs into the Giandel regular socket already has a ground wire going to the main grounding point then plugging it into the Giandel might create a ground loop if "INDEED" the sockets are grounded. I hope this all makes sense.

I have put a pic of the insides of the Giandel 5000 watter on my site.....this thing is made really well......There are just two wires coming from the main board to the jack board.....so "true ground" is not used by the inverter. You can see the two black wires coming from the Jack board to the terminal strip.

 

RE: Ground filter with a dedicated grounding rod, posted on August 17, 2022 at 11:29:29
Ric Schultz
Manufacturer

Posts: 848
Joined: August 7, 2000
 Worry and Insidious? HMMMMMM. I trust the universe....it is beautiful....and so are you, my friend.

I finally got my whole system on my Goal Zero 400 inverter. The inverter is so small that it will turn off when I turn on my class D amp because it cannot handle the turn on surge of its 1200 watt power supply.......so I put a switch on the amp that allows me to switch between wall power and the inverter power. I turn the amp on with wall power....let it warm up....and when ready to play then swtich it to the inverter.....works perfectly.....the sound...........OMG......every instrument now in its own space....less zippy, more real sound...more depth. I do my listening tests using Chesky CD recorded in real space, using acoustic instruments, using two mics.....real easy to tell differences, that way. I realize that my Goal Zero inverter is way, way, way behind a Giandel.....but for now, this is all I can afford. I am going to go to my friends house in a week or so and listen to his super Apogee mit inverter system. I heard it when he first got the Apogees.....but he has completely transformed it since then.....and when I heard it.....it was spectacular. Fun ahead.

 

If all of the components are plugged into the inverter ..., posted on August 18, 2022 at 08:13:18
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 how is the house wiring involved with the system in any shape or form?

And if that ground post is not needed and one lets the whole system float it would seem no grounding rod is needed. How is his system connected to the house at all even with the ground rod connections disconnected?

I guess I am confused by the need to ground the chassis to earth.

I am glad to see mentioned what his power draw is.

I am sure the PURITAN AC filter is good but I do not use plugs - I hardwire to copper connector blocks - over an above the cost of the filter I would have to buy a bunch of AC plus and do not care how carefully they are made and how expensive the materials used - a screwed down connection is superior to a press-fit. I will build some AC filters and place them at the amp inputs. Each device having their own filter. Most likely the Fo-Felix filter the next time a group buy is announced.

Take care, Ric

 

I will check continuity tonight, posted on August 18, 2022 at 08:16:35
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 But I have to say - I get the feeling this thing is very quiet on its own.

Still too early to make pronouncements but I am very pleased, so far.

I have made arrangements to have a ground rod installed but now i am having second thoughts if that is actually needed?

 

" a screwed down connection is superior to a press-fit. ", posted on August 18, 2022 at 08:31:02
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 11290
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
 but it needs checking periodically to see if there is a problem with oxidation, or needs to be prepped with a deoxit solution or dielectric grease. Even then it should be rechecked. High humidity destroys. Soldering it is the only way to ensure, but you better have a way to quickly unplug everything in case of a lightning storm. I don't trust the breaker box on/off for that.



 

RE: I will check continuity tonight, posted on August 18, 2022 at 08:40:28
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 11290
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
 when I bought my house I helped the electrician put in 2 two new grounding rods, 6 foot long copper rods pounded into the ground and then wired in. I wouldn't want to do that again, we were both exhausted.

I consulted here and other places and I was told it was the best thing to do and was also good for local codes.

Don't mess with local codes by leaving any out, that's a heap of trouble



 

RE: If all of the components are plugged into the inverter ..., posted on August 18, 2022 at 22:58:42
Ric Schultz
Manufacturer

Posts: 848
Joined: August 7, 2000
 When you use an inverter for your whole stereo system.....you are not dealing with the "house wiring" whatsoever. However, it sounds best to have all your products "grounded to the earth".....and then filter the noise on the ground wires. As mentioned his wire from his grounding rod goes to the Puritan ground filter that is also attached to the Puritan line filter.....this is where all his grounds from his equipment go and OPTIONALLY you can also attach the chassis ground on the inverter.....In this senario the chassis ground on the inverter is optional.....it is just a safety ground.....you know, in case the 120V would somehow leak to the chassis and then if you touched it you would get a shock....so, if the chassis is grounded then if 120V AC were to touch the chassis then it would short big time and all fuses would blow.....protecting you from harm.


However, if you are using plugs into the inverter (and it sounds like you are not) AND the plugs are grounded to the ground post (yet to be tested)....and you DO NOT want to use a Puritan filter or Puritan ground filter.....then using the ground post on the inverter can be used for the main ground connection point..... and that is where you would run a wire from your separate ground rod.......In any case....you're stereo is completely isolated from the house ground and the house wiring.

The Puritan filter does not have to have connectors in or out. You can simply hardwire into the Puritan....very easy....anything can be done. You could hardwire directly from the inverter into the Puritan and hardwire power cords from the Puritan directly to your gear. Lots of possibilities. It really is very simple.

 

Ground wire update.....Yowzer!, posted on August 19, 2022 at 21:35:02
Ric Schultz
Manufacturer

Posts: 848
Joined: August 7, 2000
 My friend had wired his ground rod originally with something like 14 gauge wire (50 feeet long). He was a non believer and did the whole thing on a whim......but was impressed with the results....So now that he is a "grounding dude" he just updated that wire to a 4 gauge wire. He says every parameter got better. EVERYTHING is better. The wire he used is $1.85 a foot....link below.

https://www.knukonceptz.com/marine-audio/marine-power-wire/sp/kolossus-fleks-kable-4-gauge-black-powerground-wire/

Grounding rods cost practically nothing.....same with the clamp used......just a little work is needed.....Have some fun.....spend very little and get way better sound......or just read this and do nothing.....and be where you are......which is still good....as we are infinite and beautiful every moment....whether or not our stereo gets any better.

 

RE: " a screwed down connection is superior to a press-fit. ", posted on August 22, 2022 at 09:01:28
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Either one would need periodic attention.

Soldering large gauge wires is not a sure thing, either.

Nothing is a sure thing, is it? Keeps us on our toes!

 

If I do it, I am wavering,, posted on August 22, 2022 at 09:04:27
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 It will be by an electrician that was recommended to me by Georgia Power for an earlier job.



 

RE: " a screwed down connection is superior to a press-fit. ", posted on August 22, 2022 at 09:24:42
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 11290
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
 I've checked mine after 15 years and all is just fine, no solder degradation, no oxidized contacts, nothing. So saying this is unnecessary. If the tension within the outlet contacts has been compromised in any way I would have just replaced it. I know enough to DIY.

BTW, if anyone is reading this make sure you turn off breakers on the box before you touch anything



 

RE: " a screwed down connection is superior to a press-fit. ", posted on August 22, 2022 at 10:14:36
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I was thinking of 8 and 10 gauge Mil spec stranded wire.

All less than that is another story and I would not think of doing anything other than soldering.

I should have been more specific.

 

After a week - it just gets better, posted on August 22, 2022 at 10:27:25
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Either this thing needs to settle in like any other electronic component or as John Broskie says WE get settled in to the new device - I do think there is some of both.

After a week nothing untoward has made itself known - if anything I keep having those "I did not realize they did that" kind of things when a musical flourish is more clearly delineated.

Sure it is a pain in some ways dealing with batteries - must be like those that owned classic era Bugattis and removed the oil from the crankcase to heat it on the stove before returning the hot oil into the crankcase to start the engine.

I still cannot imagine what can happen with the elaborate grounding scheme. Luckily if I go ahead and have the rod installed it will be just outside my listening room which would make a huge gauge wire unnecessary since the length will be much shorter than Mr. Schultz's friend's system.

I know one never knows until one hears something for themselves but I am having a hard time figuring out what would happen in my system. Would I ground the amplifier heatsinks to the rod? Do you use the ground wire from the smaller components to attach to the wire to the rod or a literal attachment to the chassis of each device?

I need to read more about this.

I have nothing but gratitude for this being made known to me. I thought my AC power was plenty good. I cannot image what this could do for folks in urban areas.

 

More stuff on grounding., posted on August 22, 2022 at 17:07:59
Ric Schultz
Manufacturer

Posts: 848
Joined: August 7, 2000
 Added some info at the bottom of my page earlier today. You can have your grounding rod horizontal.....my friend just has his 3 feet deep......However, if you use Ground Enhancement Material (cement that is conductive)....you can just dig a 6 inch deep trench, 4-6 inches wide....and a little over 8 feet long.....Please read my page and do some searches on ground rods and GEM. I have a link to the 4 gauge wire he used.....only $1.85 a foot. Go for it!

Glad you are enjoying the Inverter system.......The ground rod tweak is cheap.....and worthy......then you will LONG for the Puritan 156.......you won't be able to resist......he he. I believe the Puritan can be bought with money back gaurantee. Read the reviews.....most everyone loves it.

 

The fan came on, posted on August 24, 2022 at 07:07:33
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 While doing tweaking with the DSP box I use the charger.

The meter shows 640 watts usage when the system is playing music.

When i am making measurements I use only the amplifier needed with the charger connected - so this would be 190 watts usage.

So I discover there is not only power that brings on the fan there is also heat. My room is 81 degrees F and I guess the heat build up was more than the inverter thought was safe. The fan came on when the charger was disconnected and the system was playing music drawing 640 watts.

I am thinking I will install a NOCTUA fan and leave it running at all times.

The fan is noisy - not ridiculously noisy - but heat is bad - I like the idea of a constant breeze for the inverter.

I have yet to find a chance to check ground continuity between the receptacles and the lugs.

I am thinking - and will have to try - that the ground wire only needs to be connected when the charger is connected to the inverter.

My amps have no casing so I have no idea what I would ground to the ground rod. The heatsinks? All of the rest of the stuff is minimal power draw.

Are you connecting the case to this ground wire or the ground wire in the power cord?

I will read what you have written about grounding.

 

Re: Puritan, posted on August 24, 2022 at 12:53:04
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I do not use plugs.

It would cost me a fortune over and above the cost of the PURITAN to buy power connectors to use it.

If I took it apart to try it out I doubt they would give me my money back.

I see that 6moons liked it but that is about it. I do not see it listed in his ancillary components so he must not have loved it that much. Plus the DC blocking aspect, I would think, is not needed here. I tend to agree a filter is needed though I do not hear the need for it YET but that one is probably overkill for those who do not have thousands of dollars to throw at the system. I am a DIYer by necessity.

I will continue with my plan to use the Fo-Felix filter at the power input of each device at a fraction of the cost. Filters should ideally be at the power input of the device instead of before a long power cord. No different than you would not place a loudspeaker filter at the amplifier and have it drive the speaker cable.

There is more than one way to skin the cat. Convenience is always expensive.

 

I think with four low power class a ampsI need 600 Ah, posted on August 29, 2022 at 08:30:33
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 The constant draw can be worked with but there would be a little more breathing room with another battery - Another two would be better still but I do not know where I would put them.

My system draws an almost constant 640 watts with blips of 680 watts per the inverter's meter.

Looks like this is a one man thread. Sorry. Hoping someone is interested.

 

My continuing soliloquy, posted on September 14, 2022 at 09:38:04
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Found out the hard way that Schultz should have been more emphatic with the recommendation of LiFePo battery.

I thought batteries are batteries and paid no attention to the very important Depth of Discharge which is the key to this working well.

If anyone gives this a try be sure to get LiFePo batteries and if you want to try it with AGMs I will sell you mine for one-half what I paid for them.

This is worth the trouble.

 

RE: Have you looked at the wave form with a scope?, posted on September 18, 2022 at 23:03:03
Tuckers
Manufacturer

Posts: 2014
Location: San Francisco
Joined: September 29, 2001
 Yes, this is where most (all in some peoples opinions) inverters fail terribly.

 

RE: Get off the grid.......Use an inverter , posted on September 24, 2022 at 17:55:07
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 In some areas you may have trouble going 'off-grid'. Or still be subject to some kind of monthly ding based on 'still being connected' or being connect BY LAW to the grid.

you CAN do so here in San Diego, but must meet very strict requirements. And I'm certain the building code inpsectors are not friendly to this approach....
Too much is never enough

 

RE: My continuing soliloquy, posted on September 25, 2022 at 12:52:46
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 What does the Tesla Power Wall have?
Too much is never enough

 

With the LiFePo ..., posted on October 7, 2022 at 09:02:04
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I could listen for five hours and that is something I never do.

I bought the wrong batteries, that is why I was disappointed.

 

RE: With the LiFePo ..., posted on March 16, 2023 at 09:17:52
wushuliu
Audiophile

Posts: 117
Joined: March 19, 2009
 Any updates Rick? This still working out for you?

 

RE: With the LiFePo ..., posted on March 22, 2023 at 11:27:51
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I thought the thread and the idea had died.

Something told me to tak a look.

I am very pleased with the inverters. One for the computer power supply and the Andrea Mori 10mHz clock - that same battery is used to power a SALAS shunt reg for the MUTEC replacing the smps.

Only g;litches in the things are the HF spikes I see on the REW RTA - the big inverter has a 20 dB spike at 22kHz and the small inverter has a 10 dB spike at 21kHz. Needless to say I do not hear them. They are not broad spikes - they are revealed in their full height with no smooting. If smoothing of the curves i sused they reced into nohtingness.

I asked the folks at GIANDEL if there was a way to quell this and they said it was part of the deal. I have tried covering the things with wool blankets, rubber flooring all kind of stuff and nothing makes it go away other than turning them off. I havfe wondered if the signal is being radiated by the AC wires.

But since I cannot hear that high up I do not notice any ill effects.

I have no interest in going back to Georgia Power AC.

The AC voltage stays much more steady with the inverter than with Georgia Power which might be the best thing about it expecially with power amplifiers that are not regulated.

Just adds another idiotic audio ritual to my day so, of course, I love it.

Hope all is well for you!

 

RE: With the LiFePo ..., posted on March 23, 2023 at 17:09:11
wushuliu
Audiophile

Posts: 117
Joined: March 19, 2009
 Good to know about the HF spikes. Inverters are now on my to do list. Thanks for the quick follow up!

 

RE: With the LiFePo ..., posted on April 16, 2023 at 12:16:15
sony6060
Audiophile

Posts: 1465
Location: USA
Joined: August 8, 2014
 I prefer having a power grid, but solar power provides most of the house power here.

 

RE: Get off the grid.......Use an inverter , posted on June 22, 2023 at 21:41:37
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Rick & Ric,


Hoping you both are well. LONG TIME!


Inspired first by the info on your website, Ric, and then your comments in this and the DIYAudio thread Rick, I'm looking at converting the core audio side of my setups to fully off-the-grid power.

My first questions to both of you... are you still using the inverter AC setup? AND still with the same components as listed on Ric's website?

I have two similar setups. The music server and networking portion of each is on a separate AC power spur than the core audio gear, with an Uptone Audio EtherRegen acting as the isolatar between the two sides. At least initially, that side of each setup will remain on household AC. BTW, the EtherRegen in each setup is powered by 2 Uptone Audio LPS-1.2 Ultracap supplies in parallel with a special paralleling board, so it is already off-the-grid.

Each has a PS Audio P15 AC Regenerator feeding a PSA BHK-250 amp and an Allo Shanti dual 5V power supply. The amp feeds a pair of Eminent Technology LFT speakers in each and the Shanti feeds an Allo USBridge Signature audiophile RPi as the player endpoint. The rest of the digital side is fed by multiple Uptone Audio LPS-1.2 UltraCap supplies, so already are off-the-grid. The output stage of one DAC is off-the-grid being powered via batteries, the other's output stage is fed via a dedicated AC supply, but it will go over to batteries in the near future. The P15's indicate about a 100wt usage with the BHK-250 in standby mode, about 200wt playing music.

I keep the setups running 24/7 to keep things warmed up but with the amps in standby. My listening sessions are generally 2-4 hours and rarely do I have both setups operating at the same time.

My intention is to power the P15s from the inverter while keeping them on the charger when not listening. then disconnect the charger and power up the amps to listen. Going that way, because of my usage pattern, I MAY be able to get away with only one charger and swap back and forth as needed. I will start with just one and see if I can make that work. I also have considered keeping the P15 connected to AC when not listening and only taking them off-the-grid to listen, a pretty easy thing as I'm just moving the AC input of the P15 from the wall socket to the inverter output.

AND before anyone asks, yes, I like the P15s and they do a good job of cleaning up the power. BUT IMHO, these AC regenerators, just like any digital signal reclocker I've experienced, are not 'brick walls', the incoming AC quality DOES affect the output.

While my setups sound better with the P15s during the worse powerline times than they did without the P15s at the best powerline times, they still sound better at the best powerline times even with the P15s.

AND of course I will consider the Puritan line filters as an alternative to the P15s if it seems like they may make a positive diff.

As for grounding, I will do as Rick did and connect the inverters to the house AC ground initially while I proof this and confirm it makes a sufficient positive difference. This will also give me time to work out how to connect them to separate grounding rods, neither setup has an easy path for a large grounding cable going outside. Not insurmountable, but will take some time and finesse.

Rick and Ric, does what I describe seem like good directions? OR are there some things I should address?

Both of you still have my email address I believe (PM me if not), email if you want to keep this out of the forums.

TIA!

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. As part of my due-diligence on this, I'm going through the various forum threads I can find discussing this... besides the one each on DIYAudio and here, I've found several each on AudiophileStyle and the PS Audio forums and know there are some threads on Audiogon Forums and the What'sBest forum.

AND I've also checked with PSA to confirm they P15 should be ok powered from a good inverter.

ANYTHING else I should check out?
Everything matters!

 

RE: Use an inverter (Solar Powered Amps;), posted on September 18, 2024 at 10:27:33
Mike Mount
Audiophile

Posts: 575
Location: midwest
Joined: September 25, 2004



Hey Ric, It has been a long time since we have spoken (CES 13, 14?).
I retired from the industry / Canon in 2015, after 27 years.

You are in fact(s) speaking to the tune of my interests. Possibly (or with hopes) of bypassing investor(s) and traditional linear P/S, driven off batteries, filled by Solar Panels. It is complicated, admittedly a variation upon your core idea. I (guess) people do not (over)stand how far ..high end.. pure sine wave convertors have come. I plan to experiment with both.

My hopes a stacked 36v system or (option) 2 48volt DC, or ideally multiples of 24.
Highest B+ possible to run amps, powering low level "is easy" / easier.

For note (as a back up) I own, have used my Patriots 1800w system to power a Mac mini, 21" monitor, 20 w Mission Cyrus integrated (it worked really well) during a few outages. Only sipping power from the batteries / power unit.

I want to contact you, talk off line, in a little more detail.
KUDOS! Hope you are doing well.

 

RE: Ground wire update.....Yowzer!, posted on September 21, 2024 at 15:04:42
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15401
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003
 Do you ground (for better performance) to the main box or to a subpanel nearer the HiFi gear?

 

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