Moved on from brushes and rollerballs

Doggone it., posted on December 11, 2020 at 07:38:40
RickeyM Audiophile Posts: 2208 Location: East Coast Joined: March 15, 2003	Another tweak to try. And now synthetic, natural AND kevlar string will have to be evaluated. Is there black kevlar string available so at least it doesn't look so silly? Not that I've got anything against silly =]

RE: Moved on from brushes and rollerballs, posted on November 9, 2020 at 08:11:52
old guy 42 Audiophile Posts: 388 Location: Eastern Pa Joined: August 12, 2012 Contributor Since: August 26, 2012	Hi DR, Have you ever tried tone wood as a platform under your equipment??

RE: Moved on from brushes and rollerballs, posted on November 9, 2020 at 17:08:57
Dawnrazor Audiophile Posts: 12592 Location: N. California Joined: April 9, 2004	Nope. FWIW that is how my bbe was set up and with the same brushes. Though I had a coconut sponge cut to fit the bottom of the brush so the no part of the brush was touching the shelf. Does the tone wood help? Cut to razor sounding violins

RE: Moved on from brushes and rollerballs, posted on November 11, 2020 at 11:23:38

old guy 42
Audiophile

Posts: 388
Location: Eastern Pa
Joined: August 12, 2012
Contributor
Since: August 26, 2012

Hey DR,

If you would like to try platforms under your pieces, perhaps to start with, bamboo could be worth a shot under the amp.

You would need to lose the sponges on the brushes so the brush would make contact with the bamboo.

Under the bamboo platform you would need to decouple the platform from the shelf. Those rubber/cork/rubber things would work or you could get some Acousti feet that Duster mentioned some time ago.

Bed, Bath and Beyond has some good prices on bamboo cutting boards.

And of course, YMMV for sure!!!

RE: Moved on from brushes and rollerballs, posted on November 8, 2020 at 12:41:35
Mike K Audiophile Posts: 13975 Location: 97701 Joined: September 23, 1999	You need to try different types of kevlar string: different manufacturers, different thicknesses, etc. Then, you need to try using different knots and different attaching points on your rack and on the component. Just remember, every little difference can affect the sound you hear. Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone

RE: Moved on from brushes and rollerballs, posted on November 9, 2020 at 07:25:34
Dawnrazor Audiophile Posts: 12592 Location: N. California Joined: April 9, 2004	I think you are just playing or something. Doubtful any of that will make a difference and good luck a/bing it! Cut to razor sounding violins

Interesting..., posted on November 9, 2020 at 12:09:44

mlsstl
Audiophile

Posts: 1079
Location: Midwest
Joined: September 1, 2015

One of the first responses to naysayers by someone in the "everything makes a difference" crowd who has a favorite theory to improve sound is to ask if they've tried it, saying they can't possibly reject the idea if they haven't.

Your response is a clear example that shows that even the most willing adherents of the everything-makes-a-difference philosophy have a point at which they draw a line and say "nah, that couldn't possibly change anything."

The only real difference between the two groups is where they draw the line. ;-)

RE: Interesting..., posted on November 9, 2020 at 17:06:17

Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12592
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004

I might have a different response if I could AB things. Even then AB is not a must. But in this case I am making no claims. I decided to change things because the roller balls especially were a pain. I also think its probably fair to say that there probably is not much difference in performance between the 2 methods in handling vibration.

I have new headphones now so I can't say if the rope is better or worse and didn't care really.

That said the brushes/ rollerballs once I put them on everything really made a sizeable difference. It was surprising because I am using headphones..

Its a good point. Seems like usb cables and routers are most people lines and they don't test anything before dismissing things out of hand.

Cut to razor sounding violins

The subject of A/B testing..., posted on November 9, 2020 at 19:21:42
mlsstl Audiophile Posts: 1079 Location: Midwest Joined: September 1, 2015	... in itself is a point of contention in the audiophile community. Particularly with fervent subjectivists, this method of evaluating components is looked down on with great disdain.

RE: The subject of A/B testing..., posted on November 10, 2020 at 10:44:26
Dawnrazor Audiophile Posts: 12592 Location: N. California Joined: April 9, 2004	That doesn't make much sense to me. Its not like the "subjectivists" just say omg this is more expensive so it has to be better. Certainly people listen to things and make up their own minds right? Cut to razor sounding violins

RE: The subject of A/B testing..., posted on November 10, 2020 at 08:10:00

Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002

A/B testing is an altogether different matter than double blind testing. Swapping-out one device vs. another to hear if something may sound different is the foundation of the audiophile experience, and must be done by audio designers/manufacturers when developing a product. For example, evaluating one cap or resistor to hear if it performs better, or simply more to one's liking is often directly compared with another, rather than only relying on audio memory. Double blind testing is often considered definitive by objectivists who may not hear any difference, while a subjectivist often hears a difference right off the bat, since they tend to have better trained ears.

Why is testing so divisive?, posted on November 10, 2020 at 12:57:23

13th Duke of Wymbourne
Audiophile

Posts: 2800
Location: Orange Co., Ca
Joined: September 19, 2001

Many associate A/B testing with rapid switching but would prefer long(er) evaluation periods. I think everyone should find a testing period that suits them - rapid or slow. But, IMHO, good testing should be unsighted because knowing what you are listening to undoubtedly influences the result.'Double blind' is a rigorous sub-set of unsighted testing that seems to be a pejorative term among subjectivists. It is probably impossible to achieve unsighted testing for long(er) evaluation periods and likely only practical under controlled A/B or A/B/X testing. People don't like the pressure of A/B testing and conflate it with the unsighted aspect. Regarding objectivists and subjectivists I think the underlying question is of expectation bias. If you expect to hear no difference then you probably won't hear one under any circumstances. If you do expect to hear a difference then unsighted testing is the best way to prove a difference is heard and not seen.

Regards
13DoW

"It is probably impossible to achieve unsighted testing for long(er) evaluation periods", posted on December 18, 2020 at 06:46:12

Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17302
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002

I don't think so. If you have a trusted friend, you give him your house key and he does the swap once a week while your at work. Sometimes he swaps, sometimes he doesn't but you don't know. This could be cables, caps or power amps if they are in a closed cabinet with a external (to the cabinet) power switch. You just listen your normal way. No pressure, no feeling "under the gun". You just follow your normal listening habits. He keeps notes on what he did (or didn't do) each week, you keep notes on how the system sounded each week. At the end of the, let's say, two month trial you compare notes.

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

RE: "It is probably impossible to achieve unsighted testing for long(er) evaluation periods", posted on December 29, 2020 at 01:51:21

Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002

The entire premise of blind testing is based on a duality. In one camp, folks either don't trust their own ears and/or don't trust what other folk's claim that they hear. The other camp goes about their own business, trusting their own senses and cognitive processes, with no interest in the controversy of blind testing. When folks in one camp accuses the other camp of somehow being delusional as to what they observe and evaluate, all discussion comes to an end. I have zero interest in what is said by those who either don't hear any differences via their own ears, or have not taken the time needed to find-out for themselves, which tends to be based on a stubborn disbelief system, fear of the unknown, tribal identity, or willful ignorance.

Good post.... my observation is that line is drawn in the sand... N/T, posted on November 9, 2020 at 13:21:55
musetap Audiophile Posts: 31879 Location: San Francisco Joined: July 8, 2003 Contributor Since: January 28, 2004	, "Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure

The theory you use?... in his case..., posted on November 8, 2020 at 19:21:41
musetap Audiophile Posts: 31879 Location: San Francisco Joined: July 8, 2003 Contributor Since: January 28, 2004	naaa, I got to let it go. "Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure

RE: Moved on from brushes and rollerballs, posted on November 7, 2020 at 19:32:13
alley -kat Audiophile Posts: 282 Location: southeast missouri Joined: August 7, 2003	I did something similar years ago with a turntable.

You're not stringing us along are you?..., posted on November 7, 2020 at 13:48:33
musetap Audiophile Posts: 31879 Location: San Francisco Joined: July 8, 2003 Contributor Since: January 28, 2004	Cool and impressive tweak. You are patient too! "Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure

RE: You're not stringing us along are you?..., posted on November 7, 2020 at 14:15:34
rivervalley817	I did not know that Hafler made a funambulist model I must say, one may avail themselves of quite the education here on AA regards,

There was a wire suspended rack system, but I don't recall the name. (nt), posted on November 7, 2020 at 10:52:00
Jonesy Audiophile Posts: 3156 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba Joined: September 1, 2005 Contributor Since: March 1, 2018	nt "I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."

RE: There was a wire suspended rack system, but I don't recall the name. (nt), posted on November 7, 2020 at 21:15:04
acres verde Audiophile Posts: 723 Location: Big Easy Joined: November 13, 2004	Arcici maybe??

The one's I'm thinking of actually had a wire cable "X" instead of a shelf..., posted on November 8, 2020 at 06:03:20

Jonesy
Audiophile

Posts: 3156
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Joined: September 1, 2005
Contributor
Since: March 1, 2018

but I do recall the brand you mentioned also being popular.

I keep thinking it had "air balloon" or "cloud" (edit)in the name. But no luck searching the net.

Cheers!

Jonesy

"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."

And it's Bullet-Proof... nt, posted on November 7, 2020 at 07:55:12
oldmkvi Audiophile Posts: 10583 Joined: April 12, 2002	/

RE: Moved on from brushes and rollerballs, posted on November 7, 2020 at 02:47:15
Story Audiophile Posts: 10454 Location: NJ Joined: December 11, 2000	you should try the Aphex Aural Exciter, I find it is much better than the BBE. Just sayin'

RE: Moved on from brushes and rollerballs, posted on November 7, 2020 at 05:20:44
Dawnrazor Audiophile Posts: 12592 Location: N. California Joined: April 9, 2004	Yeah. I just cant seem to find it. Like they stopped making it Cut to razor sounding violins

Link, posted on November 7, 2020 at 05:28:06

Story
Audiophile

Posts: 10454
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000

Aphex products

RE: Link, posted on November 7, 2020 at 09:11:07
Dawnrazor Audiophile Posts: 12592 Location: N. California Joined: April 9, 2004	I know the product. You have a link where you can actually BUY it?? Cut to razor sounding violins

RE: Link, posted on November 7, 2020 at 14:12:20
Story Audiophile Posts: 10454 Location: NJ Joined: December 11, 2000	I've bought the latest one, C3 I think, on Ebay from a dealer I think it was. It was years ago so I'm not sure. Maybe Guitar Center might have it or order it and there are probably other places too. Try using Bing to see where I know I've seen used, older models on Ebay (the C2 model both are good). If Aphex takes Email see if they might know in your area or mail order.

Tweakers' Asylum

Moved on from brushes and rollerballs

174.235.138.26