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Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise

68.109.136.158
Posted on September 25, 2020 at 14:22:19
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3538
Joined: April 23, 2007
 There is no way that changing the outlet covers will make any difference at all...so to satisfy my curiosity, I bought 3 to accommodate my system. The left Vandersteen 5A is plugged into the left most outlet.... I could not believe what a dramatic change for the better ...remember that only the bass amp is driven by the power cord..how can the mids and highs be changed??...but absolutely yes. OK...the right speaker is plugged into the right most outlet, as is my Ayre power amplifier...a change, but a much smaller change than the left outlet. The last plug is on another wall - that plug is for the Ayre preamp, and Ayre Universal silver disc player... a difference again for the better. What I hear is a major reduction in "sand"... everything is distinct from its instrumental neighbor...I don't hear any difference in timbre...no increase in highs or lows, but a refinement of all frequencies. and the speed of all the frequencies, the stopping and starting is much more instant. Little cymbal taps, words, everything is better. Lows don't bleed into the mids, they are reproduced with far less effort. The greatest difference is from the phonograph (Ortofon Winfeld cartridge)...the soundstage became huge. As I was listening my wife came in from the heirdresser (I can't believe what they charge). As she walked into the house, she said "did you buy new speakers?". It is that different. I have no idea why this works, but it does in my system.

 

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RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 29, 2020 at 00:16:06
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 I couldn't offhand find any flathead Titanium machine screws in 10-32.....Is that the right size or do I want 8-32?
Anyway, all I found was grade 2 or grade 4 titanium. this part os the CP line...or 'commerically pure'.
Not even much of an alloy, but should suffice for most purposes...


Too much is never enough

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 29, 2020 at 12:06:51
rivervalley817
 I'm still puzzled as to what you fellas are trying to tame here

it's an electrical junction box not a Van De Graaff generator or E-motor

the human body manifests stronger fields than could possibly be found in them, what's the strategy for that? your frig is dumping it's own spectrum of signal energy into the wiring and vibrations into the building, now what? god forbid if you use a window air conditioner

I'm sorry to come across as dismissive but just don't get it

maybe I'm not supposed to, I don't know

*shrug*

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 29, 2020 at 12:46:21
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 The guys that 'hear stuff', like different screws and wall plate materials are ADAMANT that this kind of detail makes 'A Big Difference'.

That's why I tongue-in-cheek suggested Beryllium or Depleted Uranium screws. As if 8$ or 10$ for a Titaium screw isn't enough!
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 29, 2020 at 17:44:18
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7743
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Titanium screws are like $.50 a piece. It is true that you have to spend like 8 bucks to get 20 with shipping cost.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 29, 2020 at 18:27:14
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 page from McMaster Carr

You mean these guys get 10x what everybody ELSE gets?


Too much is never enough

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 29, 2020 at 20:28:38
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7743
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 I did get to compare titanium screws in power supply caps to ss screws a long long time ago and the titanium sounded better. I must say pg that the inflation thing has me a bit worried. Prices should be sinking. Herbie rates titanium the best for vibration control.




So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 29, 2020 at 21:21:33
rivervalley817
 'a long long time ago'

so the screws are the same and you're aged meat?

[lyric tm]

be well,



 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 29, 2020 at 20:17:44
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7743
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Here's some flat head titanium. Let us know how they sound. 10 for $13 If these sound as much better than brass does as opposed to stainless it would be well worth it, IMHO. YMMV






So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 29, 2020 at 23:17:18
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Does the ALLOY of Titanium matter or is CP Okay?
You'll find the cost of a 6-4 alloy to be HUGE compared to CP.....


Too much is never enough

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 30, 2020 at 10:22:46
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7743
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 I don't know pg but let us know after you have listened to all the grades. According to the article below all are 99% titanium. It is likely a moot point since I summoned my star friends last night and they agreed to supply me with a few kryptonite wall plate screws, said to be the best sounding in the universe.
Likely before they come I will a-b brass and 99% titanium. If the titanium work out maybe we can get together and fund the manufacture of some titanium wall plates.

Titanium Grade 2 / UNS R50400
Description
Titanium Grades 1, 2, 3 and 4 are commercially pure (99% minimum titanium). Each grade has slight variations in chemical composition that affect mechanical properties and design capability. The corrosion resistance is similar across all four grades. Titanium is light weight, exceptionally corrosion resistant and often exceeds the corrosion resistance of stainless steels in most environments. Of the four commercially pure (C.P.) titanium grades, Grade 2 is the alloy of choice for most industrial applications that require good ductility and corrosion resistance.






So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 29, 2020 at 20:04:05
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7743
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Actually I may have made a bit of a mistake as ebay puts up lots of ss when I searched for titanium. They are pricey but not like McMaster. Below is an example. Like a dollar a piece, not $.50


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 29, 2020 at 13:32:55
rivervalley817
 'I tongue-in-cheek suggested Beryllium or Depleted Uranium screws'

those aren't a thing? man, this audiophile stuff can be hard!

'the guys that 'hear stuff' ... seem pretty sincere to me

no telling why they hear 'stuff' so I'll just take them at their word

some things seem logical, while others, not so much

just trying to discern the logic involved and this one kinda 'got away'

I'll let it turn over in my mind a bit more

regards,

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 29, 2020 at 11:47:42
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7743
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 The typical US center screw is a 6/32 1/2 or maybe the next size up like 5/8th.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 29, 2020 at 07:29:56
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3538
Joined: April 23, 2007
 ..and I've been looking for brass screws for my wall plates.....not at Home Depot or Lowes

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 29, 2020 at 11:55:07
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7743
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Sgreen, both can be hard to impossible to find at regular hardward stores. It can get pricey since we only need one or a few. I could probably send you a 6/32 brass screw and I should be getting a few titanium 6/32 screws in soon. These are US threads. If your threads are metric than you are on your own. Looks like anything can be gotten on ebay but there's the quantity and shipping cost. If you have a fastener specialty business around you that might work. Look into that and maybe they will give you one or sell a small quantity. #1 is to make sure you know the screw size.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 29, 2020 at 20:27:25
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3538
Joined: April 23, 2007
 I'll take you up on your offer only if I can send you a check. I'll look into the screw thread and length size....will let you know. Thanks again.

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 29, 2020 at 11:10:49
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Around here? I"d go to ACE Hardware. They frequentyly have stuff the 'big boys' don't........

They even have Rockwood lump charcoal for my BBQ....

Here in SoCal? Even finding an electronics store to source a few parts was a PIA. ANYTHING out of the mainstream is either send for it or drive a ways.
I wanted some plastic lenses for kitchen lights. Home stores are ALL small.....Instead of 24"x48" subtract 1/4" from both dimensions. WHAT? I had to drive 35 or 40 miles to find full dimension lenses......
Crazy.

For the screws? I'd check McMaster Carr......they have EVERYTHING......
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 28, 2020 at 11:06:39
rivervalley817
 are these different outlets on the same circuit branch and of the same construction?

regards,

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 28, 2020 at 11:25:00
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 That's a very good question to inquire about, rivervalley817.

It's why I would recommend that a pair of monoblock power amplifiers or powered speakers be plugged into the same duplex AC outlet.

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 28, 2020 at 11:28:31
rivervalley817
 indeed, otherwise a recipe for potential ground loops

regards,

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 28, 2020 at 11:35:27
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 Even if the same branch circuit is involved for both channels, plugging both amplifiers into the same AC outlet is advisable.

A listener should want the exact same, identical audio characteristics for both channels, so a single duplex AC outlet should be used for the two amplifiers.

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 28, 2020 at 10:48:53
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7743
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Sgreen, if you get a chance give a solid, real brass center screw a try. Much better than a steel screw IMO. The difference is not all that subtle. The "brass" screws in my local Ace Hardware were not real brass. I see two people in the industry that think titanium is maybe the best, or better than brass and steel for vibration issues. Always nice to hear when someone has such a good outcome for themselves. Where can I find a wife like yours before I'm 80??




So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 28, 2020 at 11:50:16
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3538
Joined: April 23, 2007
 Thanks. - I'll look for bass screws.....20 bucks she's yours

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 28, 2020 at 11:34:23
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Beryllium beats 'em all.....
OR, if you can source it? Depleted Uranium.....
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 28, 2020 at 11:41:00
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 A non-magnetic stainless steel screw, or if you want to go overboard, buy a pricey titanium screw.

Otherwise, a simple brass screw is fine. Even the mundane screw that came with a plastic wall plate is not a deal breaker.

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 28, 2020 at 12:39:51
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 I'm 90% joking. Really? I'm sure the screw that comes with even the cheapest home store wall plate is adequate. The tension from wall plate to wall acts as a damper, too, so I have difficulty even imagining a vibration path.....as if that makes any difference whatsoever.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 29, 2020 at 20:33:40
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3538
Joined: April 23, 2007
 Picture Guy......if ever you leave California and find yourself in Scottsdale, Az, I'd like you to have dinner and music.....you'll be floored the difference if I just take one cover plate off of one outlet. It is very dramatic and easily heard

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 29, 2020 at 20:57:31
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 I'm EXTREMELY cynical as a general rule, though Good Food trumps my reticence.

However? MY test would be to have someone remove OR NOT the cover in question without you knowing. IF you go ......'Hey!~ Where's the cover?' i'd be convinced....as long as it is safely out of sight....

ALL my travel is on hold until at least after 1st of the year. Maybe by SPring Training, I could get aroom and see a couple games......and have a good listening experience.
OR
If you know a good place for PHOTOGRAPHY, I'm always game for a desert experience. Any Mojave Green in the neighborhood?
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 28, 2020 at 13:47:41
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7743
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 I'm sure you're correct pictureguy that any screw is adequate or fine as duster says. I'm sure a plastic ordinary wall plate is fine also. I'm sure listening with cheap headphones on a computer is fine. I'm sure listening to cheap crummy capacitors is fine for the majority of humans. I'm sure it would be fine to just get rid of Tweaker's Asylum since listening to music without tweaking is fine, I'm sure it is.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 28, 2020 at 14:04:07
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 I would NEVER try to interfere with YOU and YOUR RIGHT to tweak away. Have fun.
And I know that in the big picture, sometimes an interesting and more.......global......discovery is made.
So? Carry on. I'm right now trying to source depleted Uranium wall place screws. And using wall plates backed with some sound damping stuff. Who knows?

The whole history of this is one of increasingly better and more detailed measurements and coorelations. But still and all, NO predictor of ultimate sound quality. That's in the furure, if ever.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 28, 2020 at 15:13:50
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7743
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 So let me see if I have this correct pg. You have listened to steel and brass screws used for a wall plate and you have not heard a difference?




So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 28, 2020 at 17:59:15
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 I'm actually nearly completely indifferent. But wonder how this 'vibration' thing got started in the first place......
I DO support high gauge cordage and multiple circuits. But some stuff which CAN be tested has simply NOT been looked at.....
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 26, 2020 at 09:43:12
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7743
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 This observation of yours Sgreen, IMHO,helps to put the kibosh on statements like "Keep in mind a carbon fiber AC outlet wall plate will not provide jaw-dropping results, since it provides the type of incremental improvement that a device such as this tends to offer." Congratulation on your improvement.



So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 26, 2020 at 10:30:20
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3538
Joined: April 23, 2007
 Even if it doesn't make sense it should be tried. A couple of years ago, I was hearing a high frequency something from my left speaker...changed cables, nothing. I send the left crossover, bass amp, and some other thing, back to Vandersteen for a checkup. Nothing wrong....I then took out the mid and tweeter....sent them back....nothing wrong....then packed up and sent my 140 pound amp back to Ayre....nothing wrong. Whatever it was...this carbon face plate fixed the problem and made the whole system better. I can't understand how it works, but there it is. ...by the way the power cords are fitted with the top of the line carbon fiber Furutech plugs.....Maybe Furutech figured it out.

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 26, 2020 at 15:41:34
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3538
Joined: April 23, 2007
 These cover plates don't include black screws to affix them in place. I had to use the beige screws of the original cover plates. 2 of the screws are hidden, but that third one was so annoying. With great trepidation I removed the screw, painted just the head black, returned the screw into the cover plate, put the stereo on.......whew.....the magic retained.

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 27, 2020 at 08:10:54
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 I always have a trusty black Sharpie pen handy to paint nicks and scratches. Works like a charm.

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 27, 2020 at 17:47:27
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3538
Joined: April 23, 2007
 ..just a thought...does anyone think that changing to a carbon fiber face plate on an unused power outlet on another wall could affect the sound of my system

 

Nope (nt), posted on September 27, 2020 at 19:55:19
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 nt

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 27, 2020 at 19:52:40
rivervalley817
 no ... keep in mind that there's branch circuits

it's a proven fact that in older homes with cast iron plumbing stacks there's a detectable magnetic field around it ... I've measured this myself with a compass

if your conduit is anywhere near that it's probably inducting an EMI, RFI, and an FBI signal polluting your equipment to the point it's incomparable to your memories of the best live musical performances ... or maybe your preternatural experience, who knows, I wasn't there

that's why all playback systems are evocative of the real thing unless they're part of the real thing {ie: pro sound systems]

don't get me started on Roku and microwave ovens!

btw, I'm a big fan of carbon fiber

regards,



 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 28, 2020 at 11:47:33
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3538
Joined: April 23, 2007
 My house is 12 years old...copper pipes, modern electric

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 28, 2020 at 11:53:54
rivervalley817
 just pulling your leg a little bit there mon frère

regards,



 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 27, 2020 at 18:39:06
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 How?
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 26, 2020 at 10:18:42
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 The OP expresses 'enthusiastic surprise' about the improvement. As the AA Inmate who advocated the device in the first place, it was my 'duty' not to go 'overboard' about a 'tweak' that some folks might not understand or highly-doubt. If I hyped my findings, I would look like the type of listener who says they were 'blown-away' when they tightened their binding post nuts. 'Jaw-dropping' is not how I describe the results of a carbon fiber AC outlet wall plate, since I'll leave that descriptor to a product like a major audio component upgrade, or installing high-performance room treatments that can indeed be a 'jaw-dropping' experience.

 

Exactly the right attitude IMO----NT, posted on September 26, 2020 at 19:09:25
lancelot
Audiophile

Posts: 1722
Joined: March 23, 2001
 NT

 

Thanks, lancelot (nt), posted on September 27, 2020 at 08:02:41
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 nt

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 26, 2020 at 13:54:35
KONA
Audiophile

Posts: 77
Joined: March 31, 2002
 I think it's important to remember that the scale of the results for this kind of change is dependent on the degree of transparency in one's system to begin with. In other words as one works to find and employ various means to effectively improve music reproduction, i.e. tweak, these effects become cumulative and increasingly noticeable. In my own experience the same tweak can range from detectable with careful listening all the way up to dramatically apparent, depending on the degree to which one has paid attention to all the other factors that can effect music reproduction. Whether it's a big change or a small one is not only subjective, it's very much system dependent.

 

Well said, KONA (nt), posted on September 27, 2020 at 08:04:23
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 nt

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 25, 2020 at 17:27:39
Sondek
Audiophile

Posts: 9632
Location: Fort Worth
Joined: May 17, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 Do we need to talk about fuses?

I had an epiphany similar to yours when installed the Oyaide WPC-Z.

 

RE: Carbon Fiber Wall Outlet Covers - Reprise, posted on September 25, 2020 at 18:46:23
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3538
Joined: April 23, 2007
 I have Oyeida connectors on the preamp and cd power cables (neotech wire).......I got the top the line carbon fiber Furutech for the amp....I think they sound better, but Furutech is much more expensive.

 

What happens when you use no outlet covers?, posted on September 25, 2020 at 14:57:23
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 10457
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
 let us know



 

RE: What happens when you use no outlet covers?, posted on September 25, 2020 at 15:02:18
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3538
Joined: April 23, 2007
 no covers...the old sonic signature. I even put a load of BluTac behind those faceplates about a year ago with no change for better or worse...so I left the stuff in place.

 

And you used what covers?, posted on September 25, 2020 at 14:29:44
Charlie8521
Audiophile

Posts: 914
Location: South East Michigan
Joined: October 2, 2004
 Mfg and model?

 

RE: And you used what covers?, posted on September 26, 2020 at 07:40:12
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002



Take a look at this thread about the carbon fiber product I posted a link to, Charlie8521.

See link:

 

RE: And you used what covers?, posted on September 25, 2020 at 18:31:27
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3538
Joined: April 23, 2007
 I got them for 20 dollars each on Ebay......there is no brand name, and they seem to be made well. The dealer is actually in HongKong, and we exchanged pleasantries....I was there a couple of months ago and told him how much I enjoyed the land and people.

 

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