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Dedicated line vs upgraded outlet?

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Posted on July 29, 2020 at 13:04:48
AudioDwebe
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Posts: 1718
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 12, 2001
Would there be more improvement via a dedicated power line or an upgraded outlet (Furutech, for instance)?

Thanks.
"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)

 

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RE: Dedicated line vs upgraded outlet?, posted on July 29, 2020 at 14:44:24
Sondek
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Location: Fort Worth
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With your regenerator in the chain, it would be interesting to experiment and find out.

Have you considered changing the outlets in your PP 2k?

I've replaced all but one outlet in my PP 1.5k+ with Oyaide R0 outlets to very good effect.

I went way, way into the deep end with my setup. 20 amp dedicated line to an Oyaide R1 in their WPC-Z. Oyaide connectors on either end of a length of Tunami power cable feeding a Furutech 20 amp IEC at the PurePower 1500+, and then out through Oyaide R0's.

It was all done at different times, and too long ago tell you whether dedicated line or outlet at the wall made the bigger difference. If forced to pick, I'd say the outlet made more difference, but I couldn't swear to it.




 

RE: Dedicated line vs upgraded outlet?, posted on July 29, 2020 at 15:38:04
Duster
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Posts: 16831
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002



Big thumbs-up for your AC delivery system, Sondek ;-)

I think the OP should consider both a dedicated line, and an upgraded AC outlet at the wall. The two go hand in hand. Why put all of the time and expense into installing a dedicated line, without upgrading the AC outlet in the process?

The two upgrades are separate issues, really. One optimizes the behavior of the AC circuit, while the other optimizes and tunes the AC transfer of what the dedicated line will provide. Without an Audio Grade AC outlet involved in the upgrade path, it's only half done.

 

Makes total sense. Maybe I should have asked:, posted on July 29, 2020 at 16:08:42
AudioDwebe
Audiophile

Posts: 1718
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 12, 2001
Which would you recommend as the first upgrade?

I really can't afford both at the same time. Which would give more bang for the buck, in your opinion?
"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)

 

RE: Makes total sense. Maybe I should have asked:, posted on July 29, 2020 at 16:17:20
Story
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if you are good with a screw driver and completely understand the dangers with voltage and how to turn it off at the breaker box, then start with the outlets. Bang for buck to start there.








 

RE: Makes total sense. Maybe I should have asked:, posted on July 29, 2020 at 16:31:37
Duster
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Posts: 16831
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
I tend to agree with Story on the matter.

If given a choice between a dedicated line with a mundane hardware store variety AC outlet installed at the wall vs. a HQ Audio Grade AC outlet upgrade, I would choose the latter.

The Oyaide R1, Oyaide R0, and Furutech GTX-D NCF(R) are excellent options to choose from.

 

RE: Makes total sense. Maybe I should have asked:, posted on July 29, 2020 at 18:35:29
Sondek
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Hope you don't mind me saying, but that is a seriously impressive collection of equipment you have. How do you ever choose what to listen to?

 

Hey, thanks., posted on July 29, 2020 at 21:41:46
AudioDwebe
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Posts: 1718
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 12, 2001
I generally just rotate the speakers every once in a while. No routine or schedule, all just on a whim except the Bose speakers,which are in the living room and my son's room.

Not being an audio snob or anything. It's just that my music room has acoustic treatment and I don't think they'd sound their best. I'm of the opinion that Bose needs lots of hard surfaces for reflection.

Believe it or not, the best that I've ever heard a solo acoustic piano sound was through the 901's driven by the Aleph 3 and (I think) Rogue 99 Magnum about six moves back.

Cheers.




"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)

 

Thanks, guys., posted on July 29, 2020 at 21:44:05
AudioDwebe
Audiophile

Posts: 1718
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 12, 2001
I've been eyeing the Furutech, but they're so darn expensive!
"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)

 

RE: Dedicated line vs upgraded outlet?, posted on July 30, 2020 at 10:31:27
AudioDwebe
Audiophile

Posts: 1718
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 12, 2001
I've never considered swapping the outlets in my power regenerator. Seems a bit difficult.

Something to consider at some point, perhaps.

Thanks for your suggestion.
"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)

 

Yes, Yes, , posted on July 30, 2020 at 11:35:21
Sordidman
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I did both, listened first with dedicated line.... then with outlet, - (PS-Audio).

Helped significantly on my BC204, - less so on my Mark Levinson 383 integrated....(which is not that great an amp).

I regret not using 10 gauge wire from the box. Thinking of going back and running another dedicated circuit for the "digital side"

Cheers,



"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: Dedicated line vs upgraded outlet?, posted on July 30, 2020 at 11:42:32
Sondek
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It's not that hard.

The most difficult part is that the tabs on the top and bottom of the duplex outlet that normally are used to screw the outlet into the in-wall box need to be bent back to a 90 degree angle. There's just not enough clearance inside the PP case to accommodate those tabs sticking up/down. I have a bench vise, so I put them in the vise and bent the tabs back. You could cut those tabs off with a hacksaw, but after paying $$ for them, I couldn't justify cutting them up when bending was as effective and a lot easier to do, and reversible.

After dealing with the tabs, just get your phone out and take pics after you get the cover off before you do anything so you know how it all goes back together. After that, be sure to DISCONNECT THE BATTERIES. There really is minimal disassembly after that needed to swap the outlets. Once you're in the innards of it the biggest problem is that the wire leads daisy-chaining the outlets together have very little slack in them. Yes, it's a bit fiddly, but just take your time and before you know it, you're done and enjoying your work.

I'm no EE and not the handiest with tools, so if I can do it, I'm sure you could too.

 

RE: Yes, Yes, , posted on July 30, 2020 at 11:44:55
Sondek
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Be careful what you wish for. I did use 10 ga Romex and it was a royal PITA MF'er. After working with 10 ga, I now fully understand why electricians charge so much extra for working with it.

 

RE: Dedicated line vs upgraded outlet?, posted on July 30, 2020 at 13:07:24
neolith
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If you are going to get an electrician to put in a dedicated line, then have her install two lines - it shouldn't cost all that much more. Also have them placed on the same phase of the mains. I use one line for the amp(s) and the other for low wattage peripherals such as preamp, DAC,etc. Some recommend using one for analog and the other for digital.



I married the perfect woman - the downside is that everything that goes wrong is my fault.

 

RE: Thanks, guys., posted on July 30, 2020 at 21:07:49
Duster
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Location: Pacific Northwest
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How much would it cost for an electrician to install a dedicated line, AudioDwebe?

 

$400-$600, posted on July 31, 2020 at 10:36:31
AudioDwebe
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Posts: 1718
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 12, 2001
One of my daughter's friend is an electrician. He's done some previous work for me.

I asked him for an estimate several months back. I think it would cost me in the $400-600 range, if I recall, but that ballpark was due to the fact it was an estimate just over the phone.


"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)

 

RE: $400-$600, posted on July 31, 2020 at 17:36:50
Duster
Audiophile

Posts: 16831
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
After looking at your Inmate Systems page, and based on your stated budget-level, I suggest purchasing an Oyaide R1 Beryllium AC outlet, and some audiophile-quality power cords.

There are plenty of AA Inmates who are willing and able to provide any assistance you might require for a safe DIY AC outlet installation project. Folks go to Home Depot everyday to buy AC outlets for the purpose.

If you can operate a screwdriver, you can safely install an AC outlet at the wall, AudioDwebe.

See link:

 

Wires no bendy.............an excellent point you make -t, posted on July 31, 2020 at 18:18:32
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13660
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
.


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: $400-$600, posted on August 1, 2020 at 10:24:26
AudioDwebe
Audiophile

Posts: 1718
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 12, 2001
From your review of the two, it seems the Furutech GTX-D NCF(R) seems to be more to my liking. It's more pricey, but might be the way for me to go.

What do you think?

Thank you.




"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)

 

RE: $400-$600, posted on August 1, 2020 at 12:11:03
Sondek
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I won't presume to know what you believe would sound best in your system.

So, I will only add that in my experience with rhodium, it can sound a little bright. Before Oyaide came out with their R1, I cycled through all their colored outlets. Of the gold, rhodium, and paradium (palladium - seriously, the box had "paradium" printed on it) outlets, I favored the palladium (purple one) as the "just right" one of the three. The gold sounded soft and mushy, the rhodium one sounded hard and a bit glossy. Then came the R1. And I forgot all those others.

I forgot to add that the Furutech, even though rhodium plated, has copper as the base metal. That makes it a different animal from the Oyaide Rhodium model with its bronze base metal. It might just make for nice marriage, the rhodium/copper combo.

 

RE: $400-$600, posted on August 1, 2020 at 12:25:53
AudioDwebe
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Posts: 1718
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 12, 2001
Thank you.

For some reason, I'm thinking the Furutech is the "top of the mountain" (I'm sure due to its price) and all others fall below them.

It's a bit embarrassing to admit this when normally I'm of the belief price doesn't equate with quality.





"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)

 

RE: $400-$600, posted on August 1, 2020 at 12:32:02
Sondek
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I'm cock-sure you'd find either of them a wonderful improvement.

 

RE: $400-$600, posted on August 1, 2020 at 16:07:42
Duster
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Posts: 16831
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
A vital matter to consider is the influence of the particular make/model AC outlet installed at the wall establishes the character of an audio set-up, systemwide. It's a key factor in the choice of custom system tuning methods.

I chose to use an Oyaide R1 AC outlet mounted on an Oyaide WPC-Z aluminum bracket with carbon fiber faceplate installed at the wall since it's an excellent sounding option for the purpose. It's relatively neutral, not hyped sounding, nor too warm sounding. The Oyaide R1 offers a notably musical and elegant presentation, with excellent detail and a firm bottom-end. It really comes into its own when an Oyaide P-004 AC plug is connected to the Oyaide R1.

If a listener wants a very lively top-end with a vivid presentation, the Furutech GTX-D NCF(R) AC outlet will provide that. I choose to use the Furutech GTX-D NCF(R) installed in a power line distributor for my preamplifier and DAC since those particular audio components benefit from its presentation. I use another Oyaide R1 and an unplated Oyaide R0 installed in the power line distributor for use with other power cords for my primary audio components.

So the Furutech GTX-D NCF(R) is implemented for a special purpose rather than being the greatest influence on my AC delivery system.

 

Thank you. nt, posted on August 1, 2020 at 16:58:38
AudioDwebe
Audiophile

Posts: 1718
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 12, 2001
.
"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)

 

I opted for the Oyaide R1 (Thanks all), posted on August 3, 2020 at 09:53:37
AudioDwebe
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Posts: 1718
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 12, 2001
I'm going to use it with my amplifiers to see if I notice anything. I'm curious as I'm using the Running Springs Maxim to power the amps and one of my questions I've asked numerous times, including to Paul at PS Audio, is whether an improved receptacle will make any difference when using a power regenerator or conditioner.

If I hear something with the amps, then I'll probably get one, maybe even a Furutech, for my source gear which is connected to a PurePower 2000. Again, I don't see how a better receptacle will do anything since the power gets converted from the wall to some large batteries, then to the gear but am curious.


"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)

 

So I got the Oyaide R1..., posted on August 10, 2020 at 12:29:46
AudioDwebe
Audiophile

Posts: 1718
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 12, 2001
Unfortunately (or fortunately) I only had one day of listening with just the receptacle put in place. I had purchased a few upgraded power cords for my source gear which arrived the day after I put the receptacle in place and I did put those in place right away, as I had no patience to wait.

So on day one, with no burn-in, the only thing I noticed with the Oyaide is that it seemed that I could turn up the volume of the music without it actually getting loud. I know this sounds weird but the music/soundstage appeared cleaner and more precise which allowed it to be turned up without it appearing to get "loud" in the normal sense.

I just got more music and it was still enjoyable. I don't know if this is what people refer to as a "black" background or what, but it was pretty nice.

After I added all the power cords, which today includes additional cords for the amps which arrived a few days later, that sense of just the music being turned up without it becoming annoying and unbearable has increased. It is much more noticeable now.

Upgrading the power cords and receptacle, and also using Stabilant 22 on all connections of power cables, has made my system much more enjoyable to listen to. The soundstage has expanded and has become more three dimensional.

I still have to add the other Oyaide and power cord to my PP2000, then I'm done for a long while.

I wonder what I'll hear as the receptacles break in. The rig is now sounding better than it's ever sounded.

I've got JMR Trentes in place now and boy, those things can clearly distinguish each step of the upgrade/tweaking that's been done.

So I'm not sure what just the receptacle upgrade would have resulted in, but that's okay by me. Collectively, it's been a fantastic move.

Thanks, and cheers.




"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)

 

RE: So I got the Oyaide R1..., posted on August 10, 2020 at 17:10:09
Duster
Audiophile

Posts: 16831
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
Cool, AudioDwebe.

I'm very pleased by reading your evaluation. Keep in mind the Oyaide R1 AC outlet takes quite awhile to burn-in, so you can expect gradual improvements.

A lowered-noise floor almost always results in the sweet-spot of the volume control being raised, with low-level hash, resonances, and harmonic glare often being reduced. This means the elusive blacker background has been achieved. More of the true signal will "pop", including soundstage boundaries and imaging after the AC outlet and power cords burn-in. Also listen for micro and macro dynamics to become more readily apparent. This is a key benefit a lowered noise floor due to a better-optimized AC delivery system. Enjoy!

Cheers, Duster

 

RE: So I got the Oyaide R1..., posted on August 10, 2020 at 19:08:40
AudioDwebe
Audiophile

Posts: 1718
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 12, 2001
Thanks, Duster, for all your help.

Most of my favorite, quality recordings sound a bit better with stuff I hadn't noticed previously being exposed before me. Kind of fun.

Cheers.




"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)

 

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