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Mad Scientist Graphene-based Contact Enhancer

64.208.165.21

Posted on March 9, 2017 at 12:38:28
thegage
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Posts: 1035
Location: Western Mass.
Joined: April 29, 2000
Anyone gotten a sample of this yet? Not mentioned on their website, but with my recent order came a very small vial and brush of the stuff for testing. Given my experience in the past with many contact enhancers where early improvements seemed to turn into later degradation, I'm going slowly with the stuff, but it does seem easy to clean off. No clear consensus yet on its effects.

John K.

 

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RE: Mad Scientist Graphene-based Contact Enhancer , posted on March 10, 2017 at 02:58:37
dusted
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Posts: 38
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I just ordered a 2ml sample size version direct from MS.I have high hopes for this stuff both iin ease of application and performance.Alan Maher uses Graphene in all of his power filter designs and they sound great.Graphene has a long break in though-200 hours

 

Staggeringly good... , posted on March 10, 2017 at 10:12:57
RadioWonder
Audiophile

Posts: 1063
Location: Arizona
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at Lowering The Noise Floor and Increased Dynamics in both Sound Quality and Picture Quality...Amazing transparency...

I first did all my male AC Plug prongs, then moved on to all the non audio video plugs around the house (Refrigerator, toaster oven, lamps, washer/dryer)...

Speaker Cables and RCA Interconnects were next...

Took apart all my DIY Power Cords and did all connections...

I also did my Circuit Breaker Panel...Did all my Audio and Video system breakers first and then moved on to the rest of the house...

Not recommended if you are not comfortable around live AC Circuits... I can isolate my Circuit Breaker Panel by killing outdoor disconnect to panel...

Also USB and HDMI cables... Only did the outer shell on HDMI and USB Cables...

Did all my fuses in my AVR Receiver in my HT System...

I did NOT do my Ethernet Cables or Phone Cables because of the close contacts...

Also on RCA connectors I only applied to the male connector Hot...
Only about 1/8" on the center prong...And nothing on the Hot Female Chassis connector... Only lightly apply to the outer Ground of the Female connector...

Used Nitrile Gloves to protect my hands...

 

RE: Close Contacts, posted on March 10, 2017 at 11:06:00
thegage
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Posts: 1035
Location: Western Mass.
Joined: April 29, 2000
The literature that came with the enhancer states that MS hasn't seen an issue with shorting out, e.g., with silver paste, but I haven't been bold enough yet to check out the claim.

John K.

 

RE: Close Contacts, posted on March 10, 2017 at 11:14:43
dusted
Audiophile

Posts: 38
Joined: May 24, 2001
I'm planning on removing all the remaining silver paste on my connectors with alcohol before applying the Mad Scientist Audio Graphene based contact enhancer

 

RE: Close Contacts, posted on March 10, 2017 at 11:30:02
RadioWonder
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Posts: 1063
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 16, 2003

I temporarily shorted the Wall-Wart Power Supply on my Nanotec-Systems Nespa Pro Optical Disc Finalizer... I got a little into the Female chassis connector when I applied it to the outer portion...

It sparked at the wall AC Outlet... I took it apart and cleaned off with Q-Tip and reconnected with no problem...

Life lesson 101... No harm done...

 

RE: Close Contacts, posted on March 10, 2017 at 11:39:35
RadioWonder
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Posts: 1063
Location: Arizona
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I agree... I cleaned and polished all my bare wires in my Circuit Breaker Panel and Male AC Plug ends before applying the MSA Graphene Enhancer...

 

Audiodharma Cable Cooker... , posted on March 10, 2017 at 13:51:18
RadioWonder
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Posts: 1063
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 16, 2003

I used MSA Graphene Contact Enhancer on my Audiodharma Cable Cooker connectors... Especially the audiodharma GROUND BREAKER power cable adaptor set...

Now all my cables sound even better after conditioning on the Cable Cooker...

 

RE: Mad Scientist Graphene-based Contact Enhancer , posted on March 10, 2017 at 14:59:06
ahendler
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Contributor
  Since:
January 14, 2010
There site says this stuff is coming soon. How did you get it?
Alan

 

RE: Mad Scientist Graphene-based Contact Enhancer , posted on March 10, 2017 at 15:28:37
RadioWonder
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Posts: 1063
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 16, 2003

I made several orders for BlackPod TC footers and was given a sample with my order... :)

 

Free Sample with Order of Black Discus/nt, posted on March 10, 2017 at 19:38:35
thegage
Audiophile

Posts: 1035
Location: Western Mass.
Joined: April 29, 2000

 

Why on earth would it NOT potentially cause a short?, posted on March 12, 2017 at 10:41:39
Lew
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Posts: 8775
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
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If the end user smeared a trail of it between the hot and ground of a male or female connection, it would likely cause a short, just like any other conductor or conductive paste would do.

 

RE: Why on earth would it NOT potentially cause a short?, posted on March 12, 2017 at 14:37:36
beautox
Manufacturer

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Location: New Plymouth
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At the macroscopic level it's not very conductive. But on the microscopic level it is conductive. This surprised me a bit when I discovered this. If you put probes into the liquid, barely not touching, they register tens of megohms. So I tested in a variety of situations. It certainly doesn't short out line level signals if you put a trail between the hot and ground. I've also tried splashing it around the base of tubes and tube sockets and this does not cause any issues. I wouldn't recommend allowing it to short out mains connections, in fact the idea is to use it very sparingly and not get it anywhere it shouldn't be.

But it is quite unlike silver or other conductive pastes or liquids..

 

RE: Audiodharma Cable Cooker... , posted on March 12, 2017 at 15:11:10
alan m. kafton
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The potential improvements never end. Thank you again for pushing the sonic envelope.

As a note, on the production version of the Ground Breaker, I use Stabilant 22 on the H,N,G lead ends inside the wall plug connector, inside the Deltron barrel connector (for the ground loop umbilical), and on the Deltron bananas themselves that are inserted into the barrel connectors.

Where did you apply the MSA Graphene on your Ground Breaker?

May I presume you applied the MSA onto the outer barrel of the RCA's? You could also apply it onto the contact area of the binding posts, where the end cap screws down onto the post.

 

RE: Audiodharma Cable Cooker... , posted on March 12, 2017 at 15:59:37
RadioWonder
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Posts: 1063
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 16, 2003

Hi, Alan...
I started off taking apart the DIY Power Cord and used MSA Graphene on all the connections H-N-G)....

Then the Power Supply very carefully on about 1/8" into the female IEC connector and at the opposite end only lightly on the outside of the chassis connector and making sure to keep it away from the center Female portion of the connector...

On the back of the Cable Cooker I did all the male connectors...

Also on RCA connectors I only applied to the male connector Hot...
Only about 1/8" on the center prong...And nothing on the Hot Female Chassis connector... Only lightly apply to the outer Ground of the Female connector...

During production assembly, you may want to try it on a few of the internal Push=On connectors (the Push-Ons near the Off/On Switch)... That may be a real challenge...

 

RE: Audiodharma Cable Cooker... , posted on March 12, 2017 at 16:30:33
alan m. kafton
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Actually, treating the white 6-pin board mount connector would be easy. Simply remove (by gently rocking back and forth) the red wire connector....that exposes the 6 pins on the white board connector. Reinstall the red wire connector and you're done.

Please clarify....when you say RCA connectors, are you speaking of the connectors on the cables you conditioned? The RCA's on the Cooker are all female chassis mounts, and the only male connector is the output XLR and the pair of BNC's.

 

RE: Audiodharma Cable Cooker... , posted on March 12, 2017 at 17:03:31
RadioWonder
Audiophile

Posts: 1063
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 16, 2003
Sorry... I was thinking of my RCA DIY Cable Cooker Adapters I made...

 

That's very interesting., posted on March 12, 2017 at 18:29:59
Lew
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Posts: 8775
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
When I saw the post, I Googled Graphene, because I am just interested in its unusual properties, and I thought I remembered there was something odd about its conductivity. The Wikipedia page is a little dense unless you're a physical chemist. I am a biologist with a basic science background, but I need to read it again and think about it. It seems there are two physical states of graphene, in one of which it is even more conductive than silver. In the other state, not so conductive. What triggers conversion between one state and another is where my ignorance lies. I got the impression that it only depends on the physical orientation of the lattice, which in a fluid medium such as a paste might be hard to control. You seem to have conducted two experiments where it was not conductive. Did you do anything to prove to yourself that it nevertheless enhances conductivity when used deliberately as a contact enhancer? Meantime, I have measured the resistance of the Walker Audio silver paste, and it seems to me if you just stick two ohmmeter probes in the paste, it did not conduct super well.

 

RE: That's very interesting., posted on March 12, 2017 at 19:21:02
beautox
Manufacturer

Posts: 309
Location: New Plymouth
Joined: July 9, 2013
Initially I was investigating this as a means of reducing the resistance of the carbon fiber to copper connections in my interconnects, and I did find a measurable reduction in this application. Also I found improvements in sound quality.

So I wondered what the effect would be on regular metal-metal contacts on interconnects. So I tried on some line level interconnects, DAC/Pre to power amp. I found that the sonic effect was very easily noticable, in particular a reduction of 'glare', increase in tranparency and naturalness, etc. I proceeded to treat every metal-metal contact I could find - inside my power plugs, speaker cables, fuses, and so on, and found that it was a very positive thing, like I'd gotten a better amp or DAC.

Since then I've developed this further, trying various types of graphene and other ingredients, such that I'm almost ready to release. We sent out a few samples but now waiting for 5ml and 10ml glass bottles to be delivered. I hope to make 2ml sample sizes available very soon, in the next few days (we've just moved house and need to find all the different parts, etc).

 

Curious...., posted on March 13, 2017 at 12:59:19
alan m. kafton
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....does the material "stay put" where it is applied? Or is there any risk of migration?

Sounds like a great product.

 

RE: Curious...., posted on March 13, 2017 at 13:47:40
beautox
Manufacturer

Posts: 309
Location: New Plymouth
Joined: July 9, 2013
It has similar sort of thickness as ProGold contact cleaner/enhancer, so like a thickish oil. The idea is to use a very small amount on a contact, (if there's too much you can absorb with tissue.)

 

RE: Curious...., posted on March 13, 2017 at 16:33:54
alan m. kafton
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So if one uses the "right" amount of MSA, there is no migration?

 

I think he intends to stay in New Zealand.., posted on March 13, 2017 at 18:54:35
axolotl
Audiophile

Posts: 3903
Location: So. California
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...if that's what you mean. %^D

Sorry. I should have resisted. I'll go quietly now.

axolotl

 

RE: I think he intends to stay in New Zealand.., posted on March 13, 2017 at 19:14:16
beautox
Manufacturer

Posts: 309
Location: New Plymouth
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I find that it has a tendency to migrate to my fingers - but it washes off. But otherwise, how can I explain? It doesn't seek out tiny crevices like say WD40 does, but put a drop on a stranded wire, it will find it's way into the strands after a while. One idea of the oil-like base is to allow the graphene to move about in a limited manner to find the places it can work. So it depends on whay you mean by migration.

Yes we do plan to stay in New Zealand. We've just moved from 'south of Auckland' to New Plymouth and plan to stay put. We are a couple of inches off the right side of the picture.


Lastly, I've just made the 2ml sample size tubes available on our website. The larger sizes will come soon when the larger bottles arrive.

 

I did some more reading today, posted on March 13, 2017 at 20:01:22
Lew
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Posts: 8775
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
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It seems that in order to act as a superconductor, graphene must be in its 2-dimensional form, a one atom thick layer. I am trying to visualize how that works in the context of a paste you can apply to the surface of an electrical contact junction.

 

RE: I did some more reading today, posted on March 13, 2017 at 21:32:14
beautox
Manufacturer

Posts: 309
Location: New Plymouth
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Graphene *is* an allotrope of carbon that is one atom thick. That's simply what defines it. You don't get other forms of graphene. You do get different sizes of graphene particles,etc, but they are all one atom thick.

Also it's not a superconductor, it's just a very good conductor, better than silver and copper.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphene

 

Mea culpa, posted on March 14, 2017 at 10:43:57
Lew
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I should not have used the term "superconductor", which has a specific meaning. I meant "super" as a conductor.

The chemistry is very complex, as I mentioned and you probably know better than I, but it seems to me that the conductivity of "graphene" is not always the same in all of its potential commercial forms (graphene flakes, graphene oxide, CVD graphene, for examples). That's what I was referring to. In certain complexes that might impeded the degrees of freedom of the pi electrons, doesn't the conductivity suffer, at least a little bit?

 

Sounds like the MSA...., posted on March 14, 2017 at 13:43:33
alan m. kafton
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....is a bit more viscous than other oils, and hence will not migrate as rapidly. That's what I was wanting to know. With careful application, and placing it "just so", the MSA graphene should largely stay put.

My long experience is with Stabilant 22....one only needs a small amount to spread (with the tiny applicator brushes) and cover a given contact area. It's viscosity allows it to "stay put" with a careful and modest application. If your MSA Graphene does much in the same way, that's a very good thing. I look forward to trying it in the near future.

Thanks for the back-and-forth. I've heard nothing but good about your products here on this forum. Carry on, good Sir.

 

RE: Audiodharma Cable Cooker... , posted on March 14, 2017 at 13:46:42
alan m. kafton
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One more question, RW....how did you apply the MSA Graphene? Does the sample kit come with a tiny brush?

 

RE: Sounds like the MSA...., posted on March 14, 2017 at 14:08:19
beautox
Manufacturer

Posts: 309
Location: New Plymouth
Joined: July 9, 2013
Viscosity - Correct; I've found that connections I left for a month or so, when you pull the plug it looks pretty much like it did when you put it in. Also, I don't think it will dry up, at least not quickly, as the base is not very volatile.

Regarding what's going on at a microscopic level : One of the main reasons I think this works so well is due to the particle sizes.

Compare these figures:

Nano-silver : typical particle size ~100-500nanometers , surface area per gram ~1 square meter per gram

Graphene (of the types used in GCE) : particle size ~5-20nanometers, surface area per gram 60-100 square meters per gram.

My best idea of what's going on is that these ultra-small particles are good at getting in between metal conductors, to 'fill in the gaps' left by the inevitable micro-level roughness of the conductors. But regardless of what is happening at the micro-level, the important thing is the subjective improvement that occurs.

 

RE: Sounds like the MSA...., posted on March 14, 2017 at 16:15:56
dusted
Audiophile

Posts: 38
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Question-Do you think it would be beneficial to "rough up" the metal connectors more like with sandpaper prior to application? BTW,I have a 2ml sample coming to me from you so I just wanted your thoughts on this

 

RE: Sounds like the MSA...., posted on March 14, 2017 at 16:26:17
beautox
Manufacturer

Posts: 309
Location: New Plymouth
Joined: July 9, 2013
I wouldn't rough it up. Even if it was finely polished to our eyes, at a microscopic level it's pretty uneven.

 

AGREED. [nt], posted on March 14, 2017 at 16:27:02
alan m. kafton
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.

 

MSA Graphene On Outdoor Grounding Rod System..., posted on March 14, 2017 at 22:31:14
RadioWonder
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Posts: 1063
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 16, 2003

I upgraded my outdoor Grounding Rod System with a larger gauge wire a few years ago and it made a very nice sonic improvement, mainly a lower noise floor...

I took in the Grounding Rod Clamp to Home Depot to find the larger AWG size .
I think it was a 8 AWG or a 6 AWG...

I used MSA Graphene Contact Enhancer on both ends of the outdoor Grounding Rod Wire...
Wonderful results seen in both Audio and Video...

 

RE: Audiodharma Cable Cooker... , posted on March 14, 2017 at 22:49:45
RadioWonder
Audiophile

Posts: 1063
Location: Arizona
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Sorry, I missed your post...

It does come with a very nice brush...

I found the disposable Lip Wands work better for me... I can apply it more evenly and do a series of projects quicker when I load up the Lip Wand with Graphene...

When I finish a project I put the Graphene Lip Wand in a Zip Lock Bag where it stays fresh and ready for the next project...

 

Nice. [nt], posted on March 14, 2017 at 23:24:05
alan m. kafton
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.

 

RE: MSA Graphene On Outdoor Grounding Rod System..., posted on March 14, 2017 at 23:25:19
alan m. kafton
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Great idea.

 

MG Chemicals , posted on March 15, 2017 at 19:13:41
Tweaker456
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MG Chemicals #847 carbon conductive paste is said by the manufacturer to be non bleeding and non migrating. I like it's sound in the signal path better than Circuit Works silver conductive grease. I find it a more "natural" sound. Maybe not audiophiled up enough for some. Very worth trying, IMHO. T456
"The Borg is the ultimate user. They're unlike any threat your Federation has ever faced."

- Q, 2365

 

RE: Audiodharma Cable Cooker... , posted on March 16, 2017 at 01:52:41
beautox
Manufacturer

Posts: 309
Location: New Plymouth
Joined: July 9, 2013
I've ordered a whole bunch of various types of brushes and applictors and will use the one(s) that are best. Maybe include a few types with each bottle as they are pretty cheap. But those foam (?) ones look good.

 

RE: Audiodharma Cable Cooker... , posted on March 16, 2017 at 06:14:39
RadioWonder
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Posts: 1063
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 16, 2003

The description calls them "Flocked sponge head with plastic handle"...

They are very tough and almost hard and even when I used a Needle Nose Pliers on them, I could not get to the inner layer...

The flocking does not shed or fall off...

So they are not a soft foam but they soak up and hold Graphene very well... :)

 

Allow me to, posted on March 16, 2017 at 13:39:50
Awe-d-o-file
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make a few jokes even though I am a confirmed tweaker and need nobodys proof to try something.


you said: """then moved on to all the non audio video plugs around the house (Refrigerator, toaster oven, lamps, washer/dryer)..""""

Refrigerator: So I'm guessing crisper lettuce, more detailed citrus notes leaner meat,

toaster oven: cruchier toast, melted cheese adheres better to its host

Lamps: clarity, brightness were the areas in which these "shined"

washer/dryer: whiter whites, less electrostatic discharge and EMI

Rim shot!


ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

RE: Sounds like the MSA...., posted on March 16, 2017 at 21:06:03
Tweaker456
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One of the stated reasons for the ability of these contact enhancers to work is that they fill up micro gaps in the metal and create more surface contact. Roughing it up would likely be the opposite of what you would want to do. T456
"The Borg is the ultimate user. They're unlike any threat your Federation has ever faced."

- Q, 2365

 

Bada bing! (nt), posted on March 20, 2017 at 15:25:23
Duster
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nt

 

RE: I think he intends to stay in New Zealand.., posted on March 27, 2017 at 01:51:29
beautox
Manufacturer

Posts: 309
Location: New Plymouth
Joined: July 9, 2013
Just a quick note to say that the 5ml and 10ml bottles have arrived now (and I'm busy filling them up).

 

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