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Favorite Silmic II film bypass? Size & Sonics?

100.14.96.92
Posted on December 19, 2016 at 09:05:57
Barry
Audiophile

Posts: 1003
Location: PA
Joined: November 24, 1999
Contributor
  Since: January 18, 2009
 I realize this is a very subjective question but am wondering what people like for Elna Silmic II film bypasses when used as coupling caps. Cost isn't a consideration, but there are some size limitations. Aiming for an open airy sound stage that's transparent with just a touch of liquidity. Bypass value would be in the .01 to .1uF range.

After several tries, I've got something that sounds very good, but am curious what others might suggest.

Also, generally, do you find that increasing the uF of the bypass cap increases it's impact on the overall sonic result? It seems that way to me.

Happy holidays!
















 

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RE: Favorite Silmic II film bypass? Size & Sonics?, posted on December 19, 2016 at 10:57:29
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 The size of the bypass capacitor should ideally be based upon the total value of the electrolytic capacitance. I tend to follow the "rule" set out by Morgan Jones in his books on amplifier design, which is to use a value of film capacitor that is about 1% of the total capacitance. For example, for 100uF ELNA Silmic, I would use 1uF, but I might then bypass that with .01uF. (By the way, I like Silmics, too.)

Now, if you are asking the bypass capacitor to dominate the "color" of the sound, as you suggest, then you might need a bigger bypass capacitor (i.e., >>1% of the total), which would be able to operate lower in the audio spectrum. For me, this runs the risk of getting the worst of both worlds, a sonic mishmash. The reason I use Silmics when possible, as opposed to other brands of lytic, (lowish voltage ratings are a limitation) is because I like or can tolerate the basic "sound" of a Silmic, in which case a very large film cap bypass is not necessary or should not be necessary.

 

RE: Favorite Silmic II film bypass? Size & Sonics?, posted on December 19, 2016 at 12:55:53
Ric Schultz
Manufacturer

Posts: 844
Joined: August 7, 2000
 Put a WA Quantum capacitor chip on top of the cap.....turns in into a Teflon. Then bypass with .15 or .33 modified Wima (see website for details) with outside foil going to output. However, still does not sound as good as great film cap with WA Quantum and modded Wima.

 

WA Quantum chips, posted on December 19, 2016 at 16:03:00
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 First time I've ever heard of this product. So, I did a quick search and found a review of WA Quantum chips for fuses, written by Myles Astor. He liked them, but that's beside the point. The following is a quote from his article in Positive Feedback:

"As hard as it is to swallow [he got that right], these little round HiFi-Tuning WA-Quantum chips really do work. HiFi-Tuning aka Bernd Ahne can't because of a proprietary agreement, divulge any information about these Quantum chips. In fact, the only piece of information that I could glean from the manufacturer is that these Quantum chips are in fact small pieces of a synthetic material, encased in an adhesive-backed "sticker" that can be affixed to audio components and cables. According to the manufacturer's accompanying literature, the Quantum chip, "influences the efficiency of current flow and signal transmission on a subatomic level in accordance with the principles of quantum physics."

Why is it that there is always some legal arrangement or "proprietary agreement" that keeps those in the know from revealing just how these magical tweaks, typically invoking Quantum Physics, do anything at all? Like the Church Lady, I automatically think, "Isn't that conveeeenyent."

No, I am not going to buy any stickers; I am going to pretend I never heard of WA Quantum stickers. Ignorance was bliss.

 

Maybe weird but this seemed to work, posted on December 19, 2016 at 18:11:50
Barry
Audiophile

Posts: 1003
Location: PA
Joined: November 24, 1999
Contributor
  Since: January 18, 2009
 Thanks all. Still learning on this and value your input.

I ended up with a mix of a very small value Panasonic polypropylene (the red ones) and a 5 x's larger CuTf V-Cap for the bypass. I traded a little detail and extension on using the V-Cap alone for a little more liquidity and naturalness (to me) by adding the Pany PP. The Panys were the original/stock 'lytic bypass in the unit at a larger value which was maybe why I liked them. Fortunately, the pairing did not seem disjointed or smeared sounding.

I was surprised at how much the small value PP impacted the overall voicing.

No science, only listening. I used solo female vocals and chimes to arrive at the values. Of course it's all system dependent and YMMV.

Happy Holidays!!!



 

RE: Maybe weird but this seemed to work, posted on December 20, 2016 at 06:12:27
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 Just know that you bypassed one of the 2 or 3 best (and most expensive) film capacitors in the world (The VCap CuTf) with a very mediocre polypropylene metallized film capacitor, which ought to be inferior to the CuTf in the high frequencies most of all. The fact that you sense an improvement with the panasonic is all that counts, however.

 

Believe me I know, posted on December 20, 2016 at 08:46:11
Barry
Audiophile

Posts: 1003
Location: PA
Joined: November 24, 1999
Contributor
  Since: January 18, 2009
 I've used the V-Cap CuTfs since they first came out and , yes, one of the best. They seemed to be missing something in this specific application. It's possible "the problem" is elsewhere, but this has already been a very lengthy experiment.

I did lose just a little air and extension in the highs, but I got the sound I was looking for.

I relearned some lessons. Don't change too many parts at once! Changing something in one place could require rework in another for voicing balance. It's possible a "best part" may not work perfectly for every location. There are always trade offs.

Thankfully everything's been so heavily modified there's not much left to upgrade and it all sounds pretty good.

 

RE: WA Quantum chips, posted on December 22, 2016 at 15:21:04
Mike B.
Audiophile

Posts: 26354
Location: OR
Joined: September 27, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 1, 1999
 They need to come out with a beanie the listener wears with this subatomic level power. Sure would save a lot of time and money putting them on all the different components.


 

RE: Favorite Silmic II film bypass? Size & Sonics?, posted on December 25, 2016 at 20:38:54
Tweaker456
 The Vishay KP1830 tin foil PP caps are excellent IMO. Tin foil caps get lots of respect. Might want to try these if appropriate. T456

 

RE: Favorite Silmic II film bypass? Size & Sonics?, posted on December 27, 2016 at 08:48:49
mrplatte
Audiophile

Posts: 45
Location: Germany
Joined: August 26, 2003
 Imho Teflon Caps are to refined, polished, glad. I often miss a little 'roughness'.
I prefer for bypassing a good Siemens or Philips 'Styroflex' (Polystyrene)-Cap.

Peter

 

"Glad"?, posted on December 30, 2016 at 21:37:46
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 What does that word mean in the context of capacitors and how they sound?
I have heard and read many descriptions of polystyrene "sound" as being too "polished", one of the other words you choose to describe teflons. This usually comes from those who prefer PIO capacitors. I like both types (styrene and teflon) to the exclusion of all others (especially PIO), when it comes to coupling capacitors, so I don't necessarily disagree with you, except that I would place the best teflon capacitors ahead of polystyrenes. In values above 0.47uF I would usually go with styrenes to save money, although higher value styrenes in voltages above 200V are now very scarce.

 

Solution found, posted on January 3, 2017 at 07:37:42
Barry
Audiophile

Posts: 1003
Location: PA
Joined: November 24, 1999
Contributor
  Since: January 18, 2009
 Crossover outputs are now V-Cap CuTfs bypasses only with no added PP bypasses. I did need to remove 2 Tx2575s in the input stage and use original resistors there to get the tonal balance right (there are 30 TX2575s in each modded XO unit). Still, lost a litle something, gained a little more of something. Like it better this way.

I've clearly reached the point of no returns on this unit after swapping out over 100 parts!

 

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