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egg carton room treatment

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Posted on July 10, 2016 at 12:12:45
kenzo
Audiophile

Posts: 955
Location: San Francisco
Joined: September 27, 2003
 Would covering a few walls and perhaps the ceiling of my listening room with egg cartons work effectively as reflection filters and bass traps to improve the acoustics of my room?

How would I apply the cartons to the walls? double sided tape? adhesive? small wallboard screws?

WAF may be a little low but I don't care, I'm divorcing here soon anyway.

thanks,
kenzo

 

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RE: egg carton room treatment, posted on July 10, 2016 at 16:24:01
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3365
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 I think you'd be far better off acoustically and aesthetically buying ready made acoustic panels from an outfit like ATS Acoustics.... or even one of the acoustic kits offered at Guitar Center. Neither are terribly expensive. Bass traps are trickier and generally pricier unless you DIY. I think there have been several DIY designs mentioned here at Tweaker's.

 

RE: egg carton room treatment, posted on July 10, 2016 at 17:05:14
X1992
Audiophile

Posts: 54
Joined: May 3, 2015
 An egg carton is going to absorb little, only at limited HF bandwidth. (Acoustic materials are tested for absorption coefficients/"efficacy" at set frequencies). Because its well depths are uniform it will only diffuse at very narrow bandwidth. Because acoustic material convert particle velocity to heat, it will not absorb any bass. Particle velocity is zero at boundaries. You will need a quarter wavelength of depth to achieve particle veloctity to be absorbed. The cartons way shallow for this. Some bass traps invented convert pressure to velocity because bass wavelengths are so long.

Fiberglass is inexpensive and more efficient at absorption than egg crates and many other materials. I would buy pre-built diffusers. You will want to educate yourself about bass traps before using them.

 

RE: egg carton room treatment, posted on July 10, 2016 at 22:26:09
kenzo
Audiophile

Posts: 955
Location: San Francisco
Joined: September 27, 2003
 thank you both for the info. I figured it would be too cheap and easy to be of much use, but I had to ask :)

I guess it will have to be professionally manufactured kit.

And maybe the wife can stay :)

 

If you're up to some DIY..., posted on July 11, 2016 at 08:27:51
Mr. Dick Hertz
 ...locate a local source for Owens/Corning 704 fiberglass panels and make your own.

 

RE: egg carton room treatment, posted on July 11, 2016 at 08:27:52
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3365
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 You're welcome. Glad to be of assistance......especially if it saved your marriage. Lots of reasonably priced options from ATS, GIK and more, but first do a little studying and formulate a plan for your particular needs.

 

RE: If you're up to some DIY...+1, posted on July 11, 2016 at 10:19:47
kitch29
 I have 4, 2" thick panels that attenuate mids. You need to leave the backs of the panels open to the wall behind. I made picture frames to hold the panels and used 2 1/2" long screws as standoffs. 1" panels for highs, 4" for lows.

There used to be an acoustics Forum here, can't recall the name.

 

Yep, posted on July 11, 2016 at 16:23:18
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004



I made diy panels and bass traps. What a difference!
ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

not a bass trap, posted on July 11, 2016 at 19:15:56
madisonears
Audiophile

Posts: 1587
Location: midwest
Joined: September 6, 2006
 Egg cartons, or lumpy foam panels, will not do anything to improve bass. They might help clarify highs and imaging if your room is very reflective or your speakers have very wide dispersion. Just making a room ugly is no guarantee of improved sound.

Peace,
Tom E
berate is 8 and benign is 9

 

RE: not a bass trap, posted on July 12, 2016 at 10:45:23
David Pritchard
Audiophile

Posts: 227
Location: New Mexico
Joined: February 5, 2008
 Kenzo:

The room - speaker-listener interface is the most critical interface in audio enjoyment. I believe it will be worth your time to investigate GIK Acoustics and Synergistic Research's approach to room treatments. Both are quite effective.

David Pritchard

 

RE: egg carton room treatment, posted on July 13, 2016 at 12:39:29
MikeWI
Audiophile

Posts: 632
Joined: March 22, 2002
 Look up Jon Risch's DIY designs. Very effective and much less expensive than retail options. I found room acoustic treatments to be, by far, the largest magnitude tweak for better sound.

Mike

 

RE: egg carton room treatment, posted on July 13, 2016 at 19:19:54
Jon Risch
Bored Member

Posts: 6659
Joined: April 4, 2000
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 1999
 kenzo,

Egg cartons are not a very good treatment for a room.

I have supplied some very simple and easy DIY Acoustics treatment info, see below.

For not much more effort than you would have spent on putting up a bunch of egg cartons, you can build your own bass traps and wall panels.

Note that a single fiberglass panel is NOT a bass trap, or anywhere close to that, it takes some sheer absorbing material (ala my Super Quick & Dirty bass traps), or some technology and science to make a more effective compact bass trap.

The original DIY Acoustic Treatment Note (read this one first):
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/17/174817.html

Common Problems In DIY Bass Trap Construction:
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/29191.html

the original post where I reveal the latest Super Quick & Dirty easy bass traps recipe:
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/15737.html
and petew's post where he goes into detail on what he did.
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/general/messages/70817.html

http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/17498.html
PeteW's directions of building classic bass traps w/wire.
Andrew Chasin's description of his build-up:
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/110285.html

Comments on effectiveness of JR DIY Wall Panels:
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/122117.html

How to measure the effect of a bass trap:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/rives/messages/1041.html

Pics of Bass Trap construction (not finished/covered):
http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/basstrap.htm
AND
http://geocities.com/waycoolaudio/basstraps
NOW
http://www.audiosmile.com/forum/showthread.php?p=245241

EQing a room, ie. you can't:
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/17541.html

The problems with steam pipe insulation for bass traps:
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/57035.html

http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/6425.html
AND
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/13535.html
AND
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/3771.html

DIY Diffussor URL:
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/1725.html

Dogloo Diffusor:
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/69035.html

Review of DIY Acoustic Treatements ala JMR:
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/13654.html
DECWARE CWALS and DWALS vs JMR Bass Traps and Wall Panels

DIY Abfusor post:
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/13048

DIY Corner Tune/Room Tune:
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/7888.html
LATEST:
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/15/153323.html

Posts on constructing a DIY Roomlens
Alternate construction:
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/307.html
the base:
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/8679.html
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/13630.html

3D DIY Roomlens (David Aiken):
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/99714.html
and
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/102957.html

Fireproofing treatment:
http://www.flameseal.com/fabdescN.htm


Acoustic CLOTH Sources:

Guilford of Maine Fabric
http://www.guilfordofmaine.com/
http://www.cinemadesignbuild.com/store/subcategory.asp?CategoryID=6&SubCategoryID=1
http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/products/fabrics/guilford.asp

Acoustone Speaker Grille Cloth
http://www.acoustonegrillecloth.com/about.htm
http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/products/fabrics/grille_cloth.asp

Others:
http://www.alphasoundandlighting.com/proaudio/acoustic_speaker_fabric.html


NEW!
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/447013.html
covers fabric, and cheap retail wall panels.

NEW!
Covers the differences between the original and the SQ&D traps.
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/141939.html
Jon Risch

 

RE: Found Ethan Winer, posted on July 13, 2016 at 20:48:16
kitch29
 JR's Quick And Dirty Bass Traps worked great for me and my cat liked to perch on'm.

To tame my small reflective room, though, as I mentioned below, I use 4 of the 2"x24"x48" Fiberglass panels covered with burlap and stood off from the wall by 2". Those came from Winer who used to have a Forum here in conjunction with Rives(?).

Tried 2, 3, and then all 4 in various locations until I arrived at a room that had no quirks. 1" thick panels did little and I gave up on them.

 

RE: Listen to this guy , posted on July 13, 2016 at 23:49:17
Jeff Starr
Audiophile

Posts: 1574
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Joined: March 4, 2000
 Years ago I built his panels and the Q&D bass traps, I covered them in burlap.

I still use them, in my previous listening room, it totally tightened up my bass, and I get the same results at my current home.

Buy if needed a stapling gun, and a heavy duty regular stapler. Places like Home Depot will cut the 2x4s to size for you. A cordless drill and some wood screws. I used L-brackets to mount the panels. I got them long enough to put them up with approximately a 3inch space, so they aren't flush with the walls.

Easy projects, reasonable price, and real results.

 

It's the room, stoopid!, posted on July 14, 2016 at 04:35:09
Batman
Audiophile

Posts: 4194
Location: Western Pennsylvania
Joined: March 31, 2000
Contributor
  Since: June 16, 2000
 Here are the panels I built. Six and a half inches of fiberglass and 2 inches of rockwool. A set of these made a greater difference in my listening room than any component upgrade.

If you PM me, I'll send you drawings outlining the construction.







 

RE: Haha - egg cartons!! ..., posted on July 18, 2016 at 22:15:17
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12550
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 When I bought an 'old Australian' style of house (dating from ~1850) in Melbourne in the late 70s, one of the front rooms had all walls covered with egg cartons. It had been rented by one or more members of a band and they used the room as their practice room (with a mattress over the sash window!). I was told the band had backed Frank Sinatra when he last came out to Oz. :-))

Well, one of the first tasks as part of the major renovations that I did on that place ... was to get the bloody egg cartons off the walls. That was a major PITA, as I remember! :-((


Regards,

Andy

 

RE: It's the room, stoopid!, posted on March 18, 2017 at 01:18:50
BDP24
Audiophile

Posts: 1070
Location: Vancouver, Washington
Joined: September 12, 2013
 What the heck is "rockwool"? Is that slang for a type of material, or an actual product name? I just bought a bag of a dozen pieces of 15" x 48" Roxul Safe 'n' Sound with which to make some absorptive wall panels (not bass traps). It's not a semi-rigid or stiff board (like OC 703), but a soft and loose felt-like "pad", 3" thick. I'm planning on making the panels two pieces of S'n'S thick---6", for the wall directly behind my listening chair, which has to be very close to the wall---like 1' away. The rest of the room has the ASC Tube Traps (9", 11", 16") floor-to-ceiling in all four corners, but no other acoustic treatment. The rooms walls are lined with LP's, CD's and books, all in wooden racks. All my loudspeakers are dipole planars (5' out from the wall behind them), and I like the rear wave to be diffused, not absorbed. Is the Roxul a good choice to use for absorption panels placed against a wall?

 

RE: It's the room, stoopid!, posted on March 18, 2017 at 05:39:54
beautox
Manufacturer

Posts: 366
Location: New Plymouth
Joined: July 9, 2013
 Google is your friend:

https://www.google.com/search?q=rockwool

 

Unbelievable, yet believable, posted on March 19, 2017 at 09:08:07
Inmate51
 I don't typically frequent the Tweaker's Asylum, but thought I'd see what's here, and so I just came across this thread from 2016. TWENTY-SIXTEEN. Is this a joke? Egg cartons? Seriously?!

Can somebody please post the acoustical characteristics of egg cartons mounted on walls? 'Cause I'm sure some budding garage band or hifi enthusiast from the 1960s or 70s will be interested. Oh, wait... This isn't 1970 anymore!

After 8 jillion articles in Audio, Stereo Review, TAS and Stereophile, and numerous books written on the topic of acoustical characteristics of various materials and mounting methods, and innumerable measurements done by ASTM, manufacturers and others over the past seven decades, there actually are people who still ask about egg cartons as an acoustical treatment?

Further, the OP didn't specify if he was asking about the old style cardboard pulp cartons or the newer foam type - I'd guess there is a difference! LOL

Seriously?

:)

 

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