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Another DIY project (AC Filter)

108.210.70.243
Posted on September 2, 2015 at 19:31:50
pixelphoto
Audiophile

Posts: 655
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: December 15, 2009



Another DIY project (AC Filter)

This is new to me but old hat for many of you. This is a AC filter attributed to the late Al Sekela. I assembled the filter using the DIY recipe I found at EconoTweaks. Thank you Awe-d-o-file for your generosity. Prior to assembly I read most of about two hundred posts and threads referencing this filter. Not being a trained Tech, or EE I always study the facts to hopefully eliminate the possibility of my doing something stupid during the assembling of a project such as this one. So if you enlightened ones would take a look at the pic for faults I would appreciate it.

One of the threads pertaining to the filter from Al to bartc referenced the use of cat 5 wire as hookup wire. Al suggested the smaller gauge wire would improve the bass. So I used the same. I believe it's 24ga and It appears to be covered with teflon. And the bass in my system has tightened up. As a safety measure I covered all solder joints with Super Clear Silicone. I may fill the entire box with silicone; what do you think?

This was a rather easy project to assemble. And despite my aged and faulty ears it seems to be working. The results are subtle but there. My main reason in posting is to encourage others to explore the pleasures of DIY and enjoy the enhancement such projects bring to you system be it lo fi or hi fi.


Happy listening,
pixelphoto (Marvin)

 

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RE: Another DIY project (AC Filter), posted on September 2, 2015 at 20:14:11
ipdtt
Audiophile

Posts: 123
Location: Northen Ca, USA
Joined: August 10, 2014
 pixelphoto, nice looking work you did, where did you plug it in? in relation to your system?

~D
Wherever you go there you are.

 

RE: Another DIY project (AC Filter), posted on September 2, 2015 at 21:53:24
pixelphoto
Audiophile

Posts: 655
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: December 15, 2009
 I've been moving it from jack to jack the past few days. For now I'm going to leave it in a modded power bar that manages my little Qinpu integrated amp. I'll probably build two or three more for the other two power bars and the wall jack. If for nothing else building this is better than basket weaving.

 

RE: Another DIY project (AC Filter), posted on September 3, 2015 at 04:42:30
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 It's a parallel filter so you plug into the same outlet as the gear like you would for instance with a Richard Gray choke.


E
T
ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

RE: Another DIY project (AC Filter), posted on September 3, 2015 at 04:49:37
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 Nicely done! I used a larger box and a little board screwed to the box then TiShield bent to form a box around the board. It was a lot of work. I eventually stopped selling them because they were too much work for the price. That and its plain appearance made it not a big seller although it was an Al Sekela design.

Al's design also included an inductor/resistor string from neutral to ground. Al didn't share that with many people. I will defer to his closer friend and AA member Bart C. as to whether or not he thinks this information should be released to everyone now. I'm in favor of it.

Also Al was never much for Silicone. I used it as insulating material in the Detail Magnifier body against vibration until he suggested otherwise. I never heard a difference after the change but still stuck to his recommendation anyway. That's what you do when you have a guru/ichiban relationship.


E
T

ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

RE: "Al was never much for Silicone", posted on September 3, 2015 at 05:30:07
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 I'm not sure why Al didn't like silicone, but you're right about generally paying attention to what he said. He's missed around here. Here's two reasons I'm cautious about using RTV:

An important aspect to remember if you're using silicone as an adhesive is to use an electrical grade type. If you can smell vinegar during the curing process you've bought the wrong type. Apparently the type with the vinegar odor can be corrosive to copper, etc. The "Neutral Cure" or "electronics grade" is what to look for if you're going to use it.

Using silicone as a damping material to absorb vibrational energy? Put a small blob of RTV on a piece of waxed paper, or something it won't stick to. After it's cured, drop it from shoulder height and watch it bounce. Try the same thing with non-hardening clay or a small ball of rope caulk and see what happens.

 

what I remember, posted on September 3, 2015 at 05:48:49
bartc
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: November 25, 2002
 First, nice work!

Second, Al and I didn't always agree on materials, but I usually took his lead. I liked flame proof resistors, but in his testing he found others that he recommended. Mine was for safety. Never skip his advice on properly rated components for AC.

Al didn't like using housings, but admitted that he couldn't really tell the difference sonically. I prefered housings for safety - mine, the pets and any uninformed people around the house who might grab the unit!

The TI shield addition helps and so did the addition of piezoelectric crystals in my versions. Al liked the crystals, but I don't recall him using them in the PC filters. He just used baggies of them on components.

If you use the TI shield, it's conductive, so you have to be sure you're not creating a short. To do so, Al turned me on to Kynar tape. He liked that as much as Teflon and it worked well for me too. (The Cat 5 was all about the Teflon sleeving, BTW, not any other reason. Al and I both used copper wire with Teflon tubing around it.)

If you need vibrational damping, consider true quartz sand (not the calcium beach sand you commonly find). This is another Al tip. It's piezoelectric, and it will damp things well. As I recall, quartz sand is available at most hardware centers as the stuff they use in sand blasting. Just read labels. It's not expensive at all.

The Cat 5 post escapes my memory entirely! If you used Cat 5 be sure to use the teflon coated wire, which is less esaily found today than years ago for some reason.

Now here's the big tip: Use them in many places in your house. They seemed to have impact even on circuits that were not shared with the audio system. They were just as good for Al at his fridge!!! Certainly around any computer or TV systems, which are really dirty as hell.

As to the ground wire tricks Al showed me, and I used a few iterations to good effect, I don't have the memory to advise on how to make them. Buried in my house, if I'm lucky, are some of Al's original sketches for me. They did have sonic impact, just not startlingly so. In fact, Bud Purvine's little tail tweak, that I surfaced here years ago, had more noticeable impact in my system.

Al had a favorite cheapo power cord he liked. Can't recall what it was. He was surprised I got as good a result from constructing the ones I posted here back then. I borrowed some mil spec from him and jinned up a great cord design with air dielectric, using Chris Ven Haus inspired configurations, and crystals and carbon fiber cloth, plus Al's PC filtering systems. The whole nine yards, and believe me, it was worth it!

I'm out of the game now and only occasionally drop by here, so I'm afraid you're on your own with the old posts.

Have fun, but be SAFE! Electricity can kill, you know.

 

RE: "Al was never much for Silicone", posted on September 3, 2015 at 17:33:25
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 I like some wax and ropecaulk too. My only worry in selling a product is having something that stays ion the tube pretty much no matter what.


Thanks for the post!


E
T

ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

RE: Another DIY project (AC Filter), posted on September 3, 2015 at 19:38:03
pixelphoto
Audiophile

Posts: 655
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: December 15, 2009
 Thanks to all your responses guys. I don't think I'll fill the box with silicone. I have some rope caulk at hand and will apply it tomorrow. This morning I put some tourmaline crystal in and there is an improvement in clarity and dynamics. And the adventure continues.

 

more fillers, posted on September 4, 2015 at 05:34:57
bartc
Audiophile

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Location: SF Bay Area
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 If you don't want to use quartz sand, it turns out that silica gel is also piezoelectric. You can find that as a kitty litter product (not all, BTW).

 

RE: more fillers, posted on September 4, 2015 at 07:34:17
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 Acoustic Revive is using Green Carborundum (Silicone Carbide) large grit not fine powder. They use it and one crystal I think, maybe rose quartz I don't remember. It's in one of their outlet boxes.


E
T


ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

RE: more fillers, posted on September 4, 2015 at 07:42:58
bartc
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: November 25, 2002
 Yes. And I used that combo with quartz sand too and carbon fiber in an acrylic matrix. Used it to line outlet box and occasionally to wrap around power cord plugs. It works, but it's not profound.

 

RE: Another DIY project (AC Filter), posted on September 4, 2015 at 15:34:12
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 Thanks for sharing, nice job. I like the sound of that particular Wima x-cap; it does no sonic harm while doing its duty. I used it to modify my VansEvers PLC in conjunction with its Spearinol oil capacitor.

 

RE: more fillers, posted on September 4, 2015 at 22:13:27
pixelphoto
Audiophile

Posts: 655
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: December 15, 2009
 Kitty litter, I just happen to have a small bag of it from kitty sitting last year. Yeah I'll try that in the next filter I build. Thanks bartc.
Thanks Duster.


pixelphoto

 

Silica gel, posted on September 5, 2015 at 04:29:48
bartc
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Posts: 4424
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: November 25, 2002
 Duster, regular kitty litter (which is clay) does work as a filler, but I was speaking of the more expensive kind which is made of silica gel. That's the one that's actually piezoelectric and I would prefer that. A large bag costs about $8 as I recall. It does have some lesser RFI filtering capability. The clay stuff only fills; no sonic benefit.

 

RE: Silica gel, posted on September 5, 2015 at 15:13:17
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 Hi bartc,

I think you were addressing another post rather than mine, since I made no mention of filtering other than the Wima x-cap.

BTW, I'm glad to see you are posting in the forum again, these days.

Cheers, Duster

 

You're right - Pixel this was for you about kitty litter, posted on September 5, 2015 at 16:34:09
bartc
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 Duster, I saw your name in Pixel's post below and mixed up where to place mine in response.

 

RE: You're right - Pixel this was for you about kitty litter, posted on September 5, 2015 at 20:01:04
pixelphoto
Audiophile

Posts: 655
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: December 15, 2009
 Thanks bartc I'll search out the right kitty litter in the next two days and try it on my third filter.


pixelphoto (Marvin)

 

Safety!, posted on September 8, 2015 at 13:52:51
Ugly
Audiophile

Posts: 2912
Location: Des Moines, WA
Joined: August 22, 2006
 There a couple things which cause me to hesitate, perhaps these items have been addressed in some way I'm not aware of.

1. voltage rating of cat5 wire. Is it rated for line voltage? If not I'd be worried about it. You could light someone up and they wont be happy.

2. current handling of that cat5 cable. There is no device protection shown in your circuit which means the only thing protecting those cat5 cables from a downstream short is the breaker in the fuse panel. A real fire hazard!

I wouldn't run it like that.

 

RE: You're right - Pixel this was for you about kitty litter, posted on September 8, 2015 at 14:05:06
beautox
Manufacturer

Posts: 366
Location: New Plymouth
Joined: July 9, 2013
 I don't think that Silica Gel kitty litter is piezoelectric.

Sure, it's made from Silica (silicon dioxide) and I am guessing the logic goes : Quartz is silica. Quartz is piezoelectric. Silica Gel is also Silica, thus it's piezoelectric.

The problem with this is that the Quartz is piezoelectric because of it's crystal structure. Many crystals are piezoelectric, including sugar.

But silica gel does not have a crystalline structure. It's a dried up gel basically.

From Wikipedia:

The piezoelectric effect is understood as the linear electromechanical interaction between the mechanical and the electrical state in crystalline materials with no inversion symmetry.

 

RE: You're right - Pixel this was for you about kitty litter, posted on September 8, 2015 at 18:11:34
bartc
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Location: SF Bay Area
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 The stuff I read about and bought is crystaline. It does no harm anyway.

 

RE: Safety!, posted on September 8, 2015 at 21:59:19
pixelphoto
Audiophile

Posts: 655
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: December 15, 2009
 Hi ugly, thanks for your comments. My thinking of using cat 5 stranded teflon encased copper wire was if Al Sekela suggested it it must be worthy of trying. The two ac filters I've built so far are are functioning just fine. However on the third one I'll use some Neotech silver hook up wire I have on hand.

 

RE: You're right - Pixel this was for you about kitty litter, posted on September 8, 2015 at 22:12:44
pixelphoto
Audiophile

Posts: 655
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: December 15, 2009
 Hi beautox and bartc, rather than search out the right Kitty Litter I instead stuffed some rope caulk and tourmaline crystal in the two ac filters I've built so far and and am satisfied with that. Now back to the music. And thanks to all of you.



pixelphoto (Marvin)

 

RE: Safety!, posted on September 9, 2015 at 15:16:32
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 The capacitor leads of the Wima MP3-X2 are not a large gauge conductor to begin with (approx 20 AWG?), and the Wima MP3-X2 is a safety cap designed to bear the brunt of a catastrophic AC event, so Al Sekala did not provide unsafe AC advice, IMHO. That said, I would not use any conductor smaller than 18 AWG hookup wire for any AC application, even for a circuit in series like your noise filter project. just my 2 cents

 

RE: Safety!, posted on September 9, 2015 at 16:36:14
pixelphoto
Audiophile

Posts: 655
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: December 15, 2009
 Duster and ugly, thank you for your input and advise. This morning I replaced the cat5 wire with some up-occ copper 18ga hookup wire I forgot I had from a previous project. I'm pretty shure it's made by Neotech. I do believe the change of wire has brought more definition to the music.



pixelphoto (Marvin)

 

RE: Safety!, posted on September 9, 2015 at 17:40:52
Ugly
Audiophile

Posts: 2912
Location: Des Moines, WA
Joined: August 22, 2006
 "The capacitor leads of the Wima MP3-X2 are not a large gauge conductor to begin with (approx 20 AWG?), and the Wima MP3-X2 is a safety cap designed to bear the brunt of a catastrophic AC event, so Al Sekala did not provide unsafe AC advice, IMHO."

??? huh?

X caps are placed across the line and so do not carry full load current by definition. They are safe only since they are designed to fail open. It's not as if having X caps in there somehow magically increases the current handling capacity of the cat 5. That is part of the problem as I mentioned. That tiny gauge cat 5 is almost guaranteed to be no where sufficient to handle the current the upstream breaker can pass without tripping. Since there is no device protection fuse shown in this filter, that puts the cat 5 at risk.

Put it this way. That thing could never get any kind of UL rating the way it is....that ought to cause hesitation.

The other point I made, insulation's voltage rating....ignore the manufacturer ratings at your own risk. I certainly hope no one innocent gets hurt by anyone taking your advice.

 

RE: Safety!, posted on September 9, 2015 at 17:45:59
Ugly
Audiophile

Posts: 2912
Location: Des Moines, WA
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 The thing to do is either match or exceeed the line wiring gauge with whatever wiring used in the filter so the upstream breaker can protect the filter without a fuse, OR add a fuse suitable to protect whatever wiring you are using inside the filter.

Also, I'd be using wiring with insulation rated to take line voltages. The cat5 will probably work but if it isn't rated for the task there is no telling how reliable it will be. The last thing you want is some unknown failure energizing some metallic piece a loved one comes into contact with.

Here it just hurts a bit if your lucky, they tell me mistakes in EU are more likely to be deadly due to the higher voltages there.

 

Hold on there..., posted on September 9, 2015 at 18:10:45
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
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 That's unfair on your part, since I clearly stated I would not use anything less than an 18 AWG hookup wire.

If you have any problem with the late Al Sekela's advice, you can take it up with him someday.

'nuff said

 

RE: Hold on there..., posted on September 9, 2015 at 19:09:42
Ugly
Audiophile

Posts: 2912
Location: Des Moines, WA
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 C'mon now. I used to chat with Al quite a bit. He was a smart dude. I would be very surprised to learn he actually made a statement such as "I would not use anything less than an 18 AWG hookup wire." without first knowing what the breaker value being used upstream is.

Point is you may be be recommending something that ends up getting someone hurt or killed.

You should be sizing size downstream wire per the upstream breaker or protect it with it's own breaker or fuse. Anything else is a fire hazard!

 

double up and you're done, posted on September 9, 2015 at 19:19:52
madisonears
Audiophile

Posts: 1587
Location: midwest
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 Use two parallel runs of 18 ga for each leg.

Peace,
Tom E
berate is 8 and benign is 9

 

RE: double up and you're done, posted on September 9, 2015 at 19:30:59
Ugly
Audiophile

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Location: Des Moines, WA
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 You don't think there ought to be line voltage rated insulation on this unspecified 18AWG?

 

Settle down dudes!, posted on September 9, 2015 at 19:50:34
bartc
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Posts: 4424
Location: SF Bay Area
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 Ugly is correct, in that Al always pulled for safety and he calculated everything.
Duster is correct in that he is recommending a safer alternative right off the bat.
I'm trying to recall what I did use, but it certainly wasn't Cat 5 wire for sure! It was thicker gauge. And somewhere I have Al's originals, and I don't recall them being Cat 5 either, as he and I both used teflon sleeves on our wiring in those filters over copper wire. In fact, Al did not use any kind of housing, so his wires were very exposed. And one of Al's favorite things to tell me was not to "burn your house down".
I know the OP said that Al had suggested Cat 5 to me in a post somewhere, but I simply cannot recall that.

 

Clearing up the Cat 5 controversy, posted on September 9, 2015 at 20:05:14
bartc
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Location: SF Bay Area
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 Did some searching here and found the OP referenced post in which Al Sekela suggests Cat 5 wire in an R-C parallel filter. Yes, he did say that but that was for a SPEAKER R-C array, NOT for AC use! So voltage rating was not an issue at all.

Folks, please do not confuse the two types of filters. They sound alike in terms of being a parallel filtering scheme, but they are not at all alike in terms of safety issues, placement, etc.!!!!

 

Hey now..., posted on September 9, 2015 at 20:08:48
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 To think a plug-in noise suppression filter with a few AC rated safety caps should require internal wiring greater than 18 AWG is perfectly silly.

 

Now we are talking..., posted on September 9, 2015 at 20:20:01
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002



So my advice was on target except for believing that perhaps Al said something that he didn't actually say.

I don't get paid enough to go through this kind of grief.

 

RE: Settle down dudes!, posted on September 9, 2015 at 20:28:41
Ugly
Audiophile

Posts: 2912
Location: Des Moines, WA
Joined: August 22, 2006
 OK. Sorry about being rude.

18 AWG is probably too small to run unprotected. Though it's probably marginal, to the point it might not have a catastrophic failure under many of the more common fault conditions. That depends largely on the insulation temp rating and thermal insulating properties.

The thing is, this device could conceivably be plugged into a 20A circuit. It's not when the stereo is running that worries me. It's when some downstream device has a sustained, say 18A, fault. Is that silicone gel the OP is embedding in UL 94V0? Does it put out deadly gasses?? who knows this stuff? ORRR better yet.... That insulation gets gooey enough for the line voltage carrying conductors to migrate through the liquidy stuff and make a hard short to each other, or to the chassis. Is the chassis metallic and earthed? Looks metallic. Many questions.

Again. Please forgive my blunt rudeness. But do it once and do it right in a way that is unquestionably safe.

 

RE: Clearing up the Cat 5 controversy, posted on September 9, 2015 at 22:02:52
Ugly
Audiophile

Posts: 2912
Location: Des Moines, WA
Joined: August 22, 2006
 I wonder if you could get a high quality triple insulated magnet wire situated into a workable configuration. I can only imagine how fun it would be to try and get this idea past the UL inspector....they don't appreciate solid core chassis wiring as I recall but maybe you could use a large enough gauge so it is rigid and self supporting so it is hoverred in the middle of the air void inside the chassis. UL probably wouldn't appreciate the thought of there being any chafing of the wire by anything if there were vibrations. Though, from a signal integrity perspective situating it far from anything other than perfect air dielectric as possible would be best.

 

RE: Clearing up the Cat 5 controversy, posted on September 9, 2015 at 23:32:49
beautox
Manufacturer

Posts: 366
Location: New Plymouth
Joined: July 9, 2013
 WTF. 18awg wire will take 83 amps for 10 seconds or 250amps for 1 sec. Enough to trip your breaker, no?

 

RE: Clearing up the Cat 5 controversy, posted on September 9, 2015 at 23:49:20
pixelphoto
Audiophile

Posts: 655
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: December 15, 2009
 Ugly, the wire I replaced the cat5 teflon wire with is Neotech hookup wire, up-occ copper solid core 18ga, 105ºC, 600v. I'll also follow the suggestion made by madisonears (thank you) and add a second run per each leg. Also there is plenty of clearance around the wire connections which are also covered with clear silicone which is also low volatile and high heat resistant. And I'm not using it to embed any part of the filter. Once cured there is no danger of fumes. And it's not plugged into a 20A circuit nor will it be. As for vibrations shaking anything loose and causing a catastrophic disaster, I don't believe it would happen; everything is solidly placed.

I wonder if anyone who built the very same AC filter years before me has had such a disaster?


Thanks for the advise and your concerns ugly.

pixelphoto (Marvin)

 

RE: Clearing up the Cat 5 controversy, posted on September 9, 2015 at 23:57:50
pixelphoto
Audiophile

Posts: 655
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: December 15, 2009
 bartc:
"Did some searching here and found the OP referenced post in which Al Sekela suggests Cat 5 wire in an R-C parallel filter. Yes, he did say that but that was for a SPEAKER R-C array, NOT for AC use! So voltage rating was not an issue at all.

Folks, please do not confuse the two types of filters. They sound alike in terms of being a parallel filtering scheme, but they are not at all alike in terms of safety issues, placement, etc.!!!!"
The above mentioned wire has been replaced with a proper high quality hookup wire.
Sorry bartc my STUPID.
pixelphoto (Marvin)

 

RE: Clearing up the Cat 5 controversy, posted on September 10, 2015 at 00:11:34
beautox
Manufacturer

Posts: 366
Location: New Plymouth
Joined: July 9, 2013
 I must admit, throughout my whole adult life, barely a week goes by without attending the funeral of a loved on who was fried by a small household appliance.

 

RE: Clearing up the Cat 5 controversy, posted on September 10, 2015 at 06:43:20
Ugly
Audiophile

Posts: 2912
Location: Des Moines, WA
Joined: August 22, 2006
 Your big plan is to run to the breaker box when faults start occurring?? You're one of those guys, eh? I suppose you have a fire extinguisher and a defibrillator on hand too. lol Good luck with that.

 

RE: Clearing up the Cat 5 controversy, posted on September 10, 2015 at 06:48:56
Ugly
Audiophile

Posts: 2912
Location: Des Moines, WA
Joined: August 22, 2006
 Sounds like a solid plan. Doubled up 18gauge, with the 600V rating will be sufficient without question.

 

now you're just paranoid, posted on September 10, 2015 at 10:42:27
madisonears
Audiophile

Posts: 1587
Location: midwest
Joined: September 6, 2006
 If it's Neotech wire, the insulation is rated for 600 volts.

Some people think nothing of posting stupidly unsafe ideas for "tweaks" of dubious merit here. In this case, you are overreacting.

20ga cat 5 wire for line voltage? You were correct to write definitely not a good idea. Double run of 18ga Neotech? No problem.

Peace,
Tom E
berate is 8 and benign is 9

 

RE: now you're just paranoid, posted on September 10, 2015 at 13:49:26
Ugly
Audiophile

Posts: 2912
Location: Des Moines, WA
Joined: August 22, 2006
 When I made the post, the user wasn't even sure it was Neotech. I have never heard of Neotech, certainly don't have the insulation rating of their entire product line memorized. When I go look at the website, finding insulation voltage rating was enough of a pain to make me give up nearly immediately.

I'm not sure why you'd expect this to be such common knowledge that me not knowing it from memory somehow justifies you making personal attacks on me.

 

Not stupid, posted on September 10, 2015 at 15:56:23
bartc
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: November 25, 2002
 An easy to understand mistake, but glad you got it fixed for safety.

Al's big worry about posting any of this was that someone might inadvertently do something that would end in tragedy - at least with any of his AC tweaks.

You should enjoy this baby and more the merrier around the house.

BTW, my original model for safety was housed in a PVC pipe fitting filled with quartz sand and capped. Didn't want to chance anything with AC. So far I've never had a problem with any of these devices, but I'm sure UL would positively faint if they looked at most of Tweakers twiddling!

I house mine for a good reason: I don't want the house cleaner or my wife or especially my dog to grab anything with exposed wiring.

Enough said. Now enjoy yourself.

 

RE: Now we are talking..., posted on September 10, 2015 at 15:57:03
bartc
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: November 25, 2002
 OK< so how about we double your salary here, Duster?

 

RE: Now we are talking..., posted on September 10, 2015 at 17:58:06
ipdtt
Audiophile

Posts: 123
Location: Northen Ca, USA
Joined: August 10, 2014
 And holiday pay plus overtime.

~D
Wherever you go there you are.

 

Ditto: An honest mistake..., posted on September 10, 2015 at 18:25:55
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 No worries, pixelphoto. It's the kind of mistake that many folks can easily do when interpreting online information.

Discussing the dangers of AC delivery emphasizes the issue when discussed in a public forum like Audio Asylum.

Cheers, Duster

 

;-) nt, posted on September 10, 2015 at 19:23:14
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 nt

 

RE: ;-) nt, posted on September 10, 2015 at 21:23:39
pixelphoto
Audiophile

Posts: 655
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: December 15, 2009
 Thanks guys, and I am enjoying it!


Happy ears to ya,
pixelphoto (Marvin)

 

RE: ;-) nt, posted on September 10, 2015 at 21:40:07
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002



Excellent...

 

RE: "Al was never much for Silicone", posted on September 11, 2015 at 06:02:13
bartc
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: November 25, 2002
 Al didn't like too much gunk or junk around wiring, because he was expecting some inevitable dielectric effect that would impact sonics. His creations tended toward being almost naked. When he did use filler, as I recall, it was only in his minimal cable risers, and in that case it was kitty litter or the stuff you use in garages to soak up oil spills. In that case it was for weight and was not surrounding any sonically active wiring or componentry. If he used wiring insulation, it was almost always teflon, and not too thick teflon, or Kynar tape.

 

Yet more fillers, posted on September 11, 2015 at 06:49:13
bartc
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: November 25, 2002
 OK, I checked my notes and garage.

The quartz sand Al Sekela used was a brand called Repti-Sand, which is available at pet stores in 1 lb. bags for reptile tanks.

The silica gel I used was a brand called Flat Crystals Kitty Litter. It is definitely dessicated silica crystalline in form.

 

RE: Yet more fillers, posted on September 11, 2015 at 14:27:01
beautox
Manufacturer

Posts: 366
Location: New Plymouth
Joined: July 9, 2013
 Silia Gel is definitely NOT silica in crystalline form. In fact it's specifically non-crystalline - it's a dried out gel. It's micro-structure is totally different to quartz crystals, even in quartz sand form. Same as diamond and graphite are different forms of carbon.

Also note that the crystalline structure of quartz is what gives it piezoelectric properties, not the fact it's made from Silicon Dioxide.

Interestingly, if people say that Cat Litter provides the same sort of audible benefits as quartz crystals, then this casts doubt on the mechanism being based on piezoelectric effect, as is often stated as if it were proven.

 

Sucked me in, posted on September 11, 2015 at 15:14:54
bartc
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: November 25, 2002
 Listen, I recall reading years ago, when researching many crystalline forms that were piezo and pyro electric, that silica gel was one of them. Trying to even find those lists now on Google is wasting a lot of my time to prove a point.

So here's what I'm going to do: stop saying that silica gel has piezo properties. Hope that satisfies your concern.

Meantime, at NO time did I say that kitty litter has any of the same sonic properties as quartz! I wouldn't even imply that one in my wildest dreams. I said only that one form of kitty litter is silica gel and that I had read that it was piezoelectric. I was also clear, I hope, that I didn't get any noticeable sonic impact from it alone, though it didn't hurt anything either. I suggested it primarily as a filler, not as a filter. Maybe I wasn't clear enough about that.

Do with it what you will.

I tested a lot of crystals, mostly silicates, in my days and used my system and Al's system. Completely different systems, but the impact was generally replicable in both, whatever and however strong that impact was on the sound. It certainly varied widely. If you are doubtful, go try it yourself and see.

So "keep your powder dry", and silica gel might help with that!

 

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