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What's the story on 6H30 tubes?

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Posted on February 26, 2017 at 12:05:23
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 8720
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
I was reading an article that there was really only one GOOD 6h30 Russian production of this tube for audio use. And that it was self promoted by the manufacturer as such????

But I have also read that since that supply is no longer available it's been difficult to find a good 6h30???

Is there any truth to those articles or stories???

charles

 

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RE: What's the story on 6H30 tubes?, posted on February 26, 2017 at 13:01:29
Eli Duttman
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Posts: 9492
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Joined: March 31, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
January 5, 2000
The 6H30П-ДР (6n30p-dr) highly favored by Victor Khomenko of BAT is by, all accounts, the premium version. The stuff New Sensor currently makes at Saratov, Russia, is not junk, but it is definitely not 6H30П-ДР.

What sort of application do you have in mind?

Eli D.

 

RE: What's the story on 6H30 tubes?, posted on February 26, 2017 at 14:32:36
Jim McShane
Dealer

Posts: 5605
Location: Chicago
Joined: January 13, 2003
I disagree with you Eli! I find the current production EB tubes to be excellent. I have seen many reviews where the listeners could not tell any difference between the tubes. The earlier EB versions were not as good as the current ones IMHO. The later tubes have better section match and such as compared to the earlier ones.

I know I just made a bunch of enemies of the people who spent top buck on the few remaining DR tubes out there - but I'm just passing along what I've been told by my customers.

That's my considered opinion anyway.

 

RE: What's the story on 6H30 tubes?, posted on February 26, 2017 at 16:22:10
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 8720
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
Just curious. There is a guy over at the amp/preamp forum with a ARC preamp he may need retubing.

I've been seeing more and more postings about these tubes and I just don't know much about their actual sound.

Luckily I don't need them.

 

RE: What's the story on 6H30 tubes?, posted on February 26, 2017 at 17:15:27
Eli Duttman
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Location: Monroe Township, NJ
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  Since:
January 5, 2000
"Luckily I don't need them."

:>D How much do you want to bet the overpriced replacements ARC sells are the same that Jim McShane offers? ;>) The stuff New Sensor currently makes is pretty darned good and, from a practical perspective, "the only game in town." Send that fellow with ARC equipment to Jim.

The situation is not too dissimilar to that of RCA 7189s and Russian EL84Ms. If you can get them, RCAs are obscenely expensive, while the Russian variant is reasonably priced, tough as all heck, and sounds good.

Pining over "unobtanium" is a waste of time and energy.

Eli D.

 

RE: What's the story on 6H30 tubes?, posted on February 27, 2017 at 06:25:19
Barry
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  Since:
January 18, 2009
I bought a quad of late 70s vintage DRs to install in the regulator/PS supply of my ARC Ref 40 preamp. If they were better, I was prepared to buy 8 more for the line section. They did sound different than the current Sovteck version, but not necessarily better so I sold them. Some people like them, others don't feel they're worth the cost.

 

+ 1, posted on February 27, 2017 at 06:37:14
Barry
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Agree totally.

 

RE: What's the story on 6H30 tubes?, posted on February 27, 2017 at 06:56:23
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15167
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
I have had the same experience. Fortunately, I bought the old ones before they became uber-popular.

 

RE: What's the story on 6H30 tubes?, posted on February 27, 2017 at 07:05:11
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 8720
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
The poster also wanted to know if those tubes "fad" after a while.

My personal experience with smaller tubes is a hard driven tube starts to loose a little zip a few months before it becomes noisy.

Would a 6h30 in the ARC get tired?

 

I wish I could agree with that, posted on February 27, 2017 at 10:36:35
Victor Khomenko
Manufacturer

Posts: 46301
Joined: April 5, 2000
I will leave the sound quality question alone, as it is largely subjective, but in terms of quality there is no comparison, based on our rejection rates. Way, way too high in current tubes, and almost a perfect zero in the NOS's.


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  • RE: I wish I could agree with that, posted on February 27, 2017 at 11:20:54
    Jim McShane
    Dealer

    Posts: 5605
    Location: Chicago
    Joined: January 13, 2003
    We will have to disagree Victor - because I have had one reject in all the current tubes I've tested!

    Regardless, I do appreciate you sharing the information about your experience. Thank you sir...

     

    You would really have to disagree with our production manager..., posted on February 27, 2017 at 11:39:52
    Victor Khomenko
    Manufacturer

    Posts: 46301
    Joined: April 5, 2000
    ...who regularly curses at the boxes of rejected tubes. I will spare the horror stories, but they are indeed stories of horror.

    It is possible that you are not concerned with the parameters that are important to us. The tubes we reject may, indeed, work in some other circuits.

    But the bottom line remains - the NOS tubes are vastly superior.

    It also appears that the quality has gone through its lowest point, when we rejected up to 40% of tubes. Today it is "only" about 20%.


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  • RE: You would really have to disagree with our production manager..., posted on February 27, 2017 at 12:09:58
    Jim McShane
    Dealer

    Posts: 5605
    Location: Chicago
    Joined: January 13, 2003
    It needs to be said that I am concerned with the parameters that allow the tube to perform properly in any given customer's gear. I do not test the tube's ability to meet unique characteristics imposed by use in your products. To me that is two far different sets of test parameters.

    It also needs to be said - so no one misinteprets your statement "It is possible that you are not concerned with the parameters that are important to us" - that I do not believe you were inferring that I don't do a thorough and complete job of testing the tubes. If you were I will just say you would have been badly mistaken, because I DO perform a thorough and complete test regimen on each tube before it is available for sale.

    So are the -DR tubes "vastly superior"? In your gear it would seem so since I'm sure no one knows that better than you do! But for the entire population of 6H30 sockets out there your statement does not match my experience.

    If you'd like to have the last word please feel free, but I'm going to bow out at this point. Again, thanks for posting and sharing your point of view!

     

    We fail the tubes on three very common parameters, posted on February 27, 2017 at 12:31:35
    Victor Khomenko
    Manufacturer

    Posts: 46301
    Joined: April 5, 2000
    Two of them are universal - noise and microphonics. The third one is also the standard tube parameter, that some circuits might not be sensitive too, but it is not our invention - it is there, on their spec sheet.

    Like I said, we do reject high number of current production tubes. With the NOS's there is no such thing - you just plug them in and you can ship the product. We went through many thousands of them with virtually no rejections.

    I truly have no skin in this game, as the NOS tubes are pretty much all gone now, but it is not correct to say the two populations are equal.

    The discussion is almost academic at this point, but my recommendation is - if you see some NOS's pop up - get them.


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  • 6H30 Tube Life in ARC, posted on February 27, 2017 at 17:48:43
    Barry
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    Contributor
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    ARC recommends the Sovtek 6H30s supplied in their Ref series of preamps be replaced at 4,000 hours. I replaced mine about that time, but they may have lasted longer.

    I believe the NOS "super tube" DR version's life was rated to as high as 10,000 hours.

    Victor's certainly the expert on the DR tube parameters.

     

    RE: We fail the tubes on three very common parameters, posted on March 2, 2017 at 14:44:27
    Michael Samra
    Dealer

    Posts: 35854
    Location: saginaw michigan
    Joined: January 30, 2005
    Contributor
      Since:
    June 24, 2005
    Victor
    Unfortunately,I never noticed these tubes back when they were reasonably price if they in fact even were. What do you do for tubes in your preamps because I have a Supratek Grange here that uses a pair and I priced the milspec ones and they are upwards of 400usd each.If the milspec 6H30Pi has the reliability you say with low microphonics in all but a few,I wonder if New Sensor can duplicate the milspec ones at a higher cost to keep everyone happy?

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

     

    $400ea??????????????????????????????????????????, posted on March 3, 2017 at 05:43:43
    Victor Khomenko
    Manufacturer

    Posts: 46301
    Joined: April 5, 2000
    I have seen them go for $160 on ebay. You have to look, but they do still pop up in small lots here and there.


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  • RE: $400ea??????????????????????????????????????????, posted on March 3, 2017 at 23:38:28
    Michael Samra
    Dealer

    Posts: 35854
    Location: saginaw michigan
    Joined: January 30, 2005
    Contributor
      Since:
    June 24, 2005
    How much were they on Ebay when the Russian sellers first started selling them?To look at them,they strongly resemble the 6H6p.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

     

    RE: $400ea??????????????????????????????????????????, posted on March 4, 2017 at 17:44:12
    twystd
    Audiophile

    Posts: 2572
    Location: Austin,Texas
    Joined: December 9, 2000
    Mikey IIRC the Rp of the 6n6p is more, ~ 2K, but a mighty fine tube. I built a parafeed linestage around the 6n6p, using Magnequest B7 nickle core transformers. It sounded great, very linear tube, cheap and plentiful.

    They are like an ECC99 with a slightly different pin out, only better. Pin 9 is a shield between the 2 triode sections, instead of heater center tap, so only a 6.3v tube.

    The mid 60's vintage Reflector/Saratov (also called Foton) tubes with the diamond shaped logo, and the square getter, are the bomb. Those tubes are hard to find now, and command a higher price, but well worth it.

    beeg nose

     

    RE: $400ea??????????????????????????????????????????, posted on March 4, 2017 at 18:51:00
    Victor Khomenko
    Manufacturer

    Posts: 46301
    Joined: April 5, 2000
    I am not sure what you are asking. The 6H6P is a VERY different tube.

    IIRC, back when it all started, you could get the real NOS 6H30's for well under $100.


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