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"Hazen Grid Mod"question

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Posted on May 1, 2022 at 09:41:32
Yoshimitsu
Audiophile

Posts: 12
Location: Ticino
Joined: February 27, 2020



HI

So I've found out about this mod in this post here from 2011 https://www.audioasylum.com/messages/tubediy/200313/my-adventures-with-decware-s-quot-hazen-grid-mod-quot-long
It piqued my interest and now I'd like to try it on my single-ended EL84 amp.

According to the post, I just linked, I am supposed to connect pin nr.3 to pin nr.6 with a small foil cap.

But then he also writes: "A few notes: the connection can be made from pin 3 to pin 1 since 1 and 6 are internally connected in this tube."

Now I am kinda confused, am I supposed to connect pin 3 to 6 or pin 1 to 3? Or do both variants work?

Also, I don't quite understand why this mod would work on EL34 tubes, pin 6 on EL34 tubes is NC. On 6P15P pin 6 isn't NC.

Here are some more Infos on this mod for those who would like to know more: https://www.decware.com/newsite/paper146.html

Cheers



 

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RE: "Hazen Grid Mod"question, posted on May 1, 2022 at 10:16:50
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 9424
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
Looks like Voodoo to me. I'd be interested to know how the floating suppressor affects the curves and whether it affects all examples of the same tube type in the same way.
















--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.

 

RE: "Hazen Grid Mod"question, posted on May 1, 2022 at 10:30:21
Yoshimitsu
Audiophile

Posts: 12
Location: Ticino
Joined: February 27, 2020
IDk... everyone who tried it reported a big improvement. I mean, I am willing to try it's not that it costs a lot.

 

RE: "Hazen Grid Mod"question, posted on May 1, 2022 at 11:44:16
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 9424
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
If you're intending to judge this by ear, you'll need to set it up with a switch for rapid A/B and an assistant to make it a blind test. It's virtually impossible to be objective otherwise.





--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.

 

RE: "Hazen Grid Mod"question, posted on May 1, 2022 at 18:39:00
Spantou
Audiophile

Posts: 102
Location: Central Illinois
Joined: October 5, 2016
" But then he also writes: "A few notes: the connection can be made from pin 3 to pin 1 since 1 and 6 are internally connected in this tube."

The original writer here is talking about his 6P15P connections. He carefully stated:"...- for EL34s you put the cap between pins 1 and 8...-"

It worries me that you are confused. If you do this Hazen Mod please read the instructions very carefully and proceed very cautiously. It would be good to get some experienced help with it.

Triode Kingdom's advice to put in a switch to rapidly compare will complicate this unnecessarily. Trust your ears and audio memory - to you that is all that matters.

 

RE: "Hazen Grid Mod"question, posted on May 2, 2022 at 00:56:28
Paul Barker
Audiophile

Posts: 907
Location: North Yorkshire
Joined: November 17, 2002
Thanks for clearing that up. OP had a remarcable nack of making a completely simple mod confusing.

 

mod accomplishment?, posted on May 2, 2022 at 04:46:00
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 6207
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
what is the mod suppose to do technically and audibly, please anyone...



 

Link to the Hazen mod document, posted on May 2, 2022 at 05:21:07
Bas Horneman
Audiophile

Posts: 3987
Joined: March 28, 2001
Have not tried it yet. Since I don't have EL34's nor an amp with the 6P15P.

 

RE: "Hazen Grid Mod"question, posted on May 2, 2022 at 08:40:09
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 9424
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
"Trust your ears and audio memory"

Yes, let's perpetuate yet another myth in this chaotic hobby. LOL.




--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.

 

thanks for the link! /nt, posted on May 2, 2022 at 11:18:19
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 6207
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000




 

RE: "Hazen Grid Mod"question, posted on May 2, 2022 at 15:27:34
tube wrangler
Manufacturer

Posts: 2444
Location: USA
Joined: January 29, 2007
There's something going on here that
we don't yet understand.

How can I tell? Steve likes it, and has
asked us to evaluate it.

To my mind, that means I play with it, and
find out why it works.

Later....

-Dennis-

 

RE: "Hazen Grid Mod"question, posted on May 2, 2022 at 21:51:10
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 9424
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
I'm not at all opposed to the idea that we can hear things that common measurements don't detect. If you perform this listening test in a scientific and objective manner, and you believe the results point to an improvement, by all means let us know. :)



--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.

 

RE: "Hazen Grid Mod"question, posted on May 3, 2022 at 08:05:05
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 16098
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
"Echoic memory: Also known as auditory sensory memory, echoic memeory involves a very brief memory of sound a bit like an echo. This type of sensory memory can last for up to three to four seconds."

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: "Hazen Grid Mod"question, posted on May 3, 2022 at 09:43:11
tube wrangler
Manufacturer

Posts: 2444
Location: USA
Joined: January 29, 2007
This will take awhile, but I think it should
get some attention. What do you think, TRE?

-Dennis-

 

The suppressor grid is not totally floating, posted on May 3, 2022 at 12:45:32
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 16098
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002



It's connected to the cathode, just like always, but through a cap.

So I guess just the bass frequencies are "floating"?

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

Audio myths, posted on May 3, 2022 at 14:06:43
Spantou
Audiophile

Posts: 102
Location: Central Illinois
Joined: October 5, 2016
The "trust your ears myth" is not quite as bad as the other one. That myth says "double blind testing is required before you are allowed to choose and enjoy your equipment" LOL.

 

RE: Audio myths, posted on May 3, 2022 at 21:25:43
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 9424
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
"...double blind testing is required before you are allowed to choose and enjoy your equipment"

But of course that's not what this discussion is about, nor have I ever said such a thing. You're just looking for trouble. :)



--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.

 

RE: The suppressor grid is not totally floating, posted on May 3, 2022 at 21:39:12
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 9424
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
It's my understanding the last grid can't function as a suppressor if it's not near cathode potential for DC. I doubt there's much effect under these conditions relative to frequency. Maybe we should remove the cap, too. What's the worst that could happen? :)





--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.

 

RE: Audio myths, posted on May 3, 2022 at 21:44:23
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 16098
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
"double blind testing is required before you are allowed to choose and enjoy your equipment"

I've never heard anyone say that.

I have heard people say that if it (differences) can't be heard in a DBT then it doesn't exist but that's not the same thing as the above. Not by a long shot.

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: "Hazen Grid Mod"question, posted on May 4, 2022 at 00:15:15
Paul Barker
Audiophile

Posts: 907
Location: North Yorkshire
Joined: November 17, 2002
You learn a lot about yourself when you get a friend to blind test for you. Find someone you are confident in and you'll be surprised how much proud Papa syndrome, vested interest syndrome, and how much you 'perceive' it sounds better but you're wrong. Remove those influences and even some tube rolling is hocus locus (not all) but strip it to remove those bizarre influences that make our beliefs in what we're hearing and you learn a lot more.

I'd did this with Nick Gotham in my house with 212's of about 5 different manufacture all quite differently constructed and with gm70 graphite and also copper.

My mind tricked me that the taller with larger plate versions of v1505 sounded better than the shorter more common 212's. Clear as day all 212's sounded better than graphite gm70 and less clearly but marginally better than copper gm70.

It was at least 20 years ago, before vsac anyway. So I can't remember every detail. But Nick who was blind barely heard any difference but he found graphite gm70 least good. He could not hear the difference between any 212 versions and couldn't tell which was copper gm70.

I, knowing what we were hearing heard great differences!

 

RE: Audio myths, posted on May 4, 2022 at 07:27:04
Spantou
Audiophile

Posts: 102
Location: Central Illinois
Joined: October 5, 2016
That was what you advised the OP by implication; told him to hook up switches and conduct blind tests to objectively evaluate the results because his ears can't be trusted. I'm not looking for trouble but trying to prevent it. The OP, who was confused about pin numbers, appears to be a newbie wanting to try something simple and inexpensive and I suggested that adding switches is a unnecessary complication in this context. You then chose to call it "perpetuating a myth".

 

RE: Audio myths, posted on May 4, 2022 at 08:34:15
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 9424
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
LOL, just making it up as you go along. Fine by me, enjoy your fantasy.





--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.

 

RE: "Hazen Grid Mod"question, posted on May 4, 2022 at 17:33:20
tube wrangler
Manufacturer

Posts: 2444
Location: USA
Joined: January 29, 2007
People come in and listen often.

Some are experienced audiophiles of all sorts,
some are business people, some
are local Rancher's kids-- budding cowboys, etc.

All have different opinions, but one thing
they all agree on: when something sounds more
real-- it is more real!

Young budding cowboys are superior in listening.

They have two advantages: (1) vastly superior
health and hearing abilities. (2) Very few
preconceived notions....

-Dennis-

 

RE: "Hazen Grid Mod"question, posted on May 6, 2022 at 03:08:42
Paul Barker
Audiophile

Posts: 907
Location: North Yorkshire
Joined: November 17, 2002
when youre wife says 'thought someone was actually playing our piano' is a good moment.

 

RE: The suppressor grid is not totally floating, posted on May 6, 2022 at 04:01:37
PakProtector
Audiophile

Posts: 12288
Joined: May 14, 2002
For horizontal outputs, getting the suppressor above cathode by ~30V reduced a TV specific sort of distortion. Not quite sure what 'snivets' sound like, but for video, they're not wanted... :)
cheers,
Douglas

Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.

 

RE: "Hazen Grid Mod"question, posted on May 6, 2022 at 12:34:57
tube wrangler
Manufacturer

Posts: 2444
Location: USA
Joined: January 29, 2007
Women have a higher frequency spectrum than
most men-- excluding young cowboys-- whom are
awesome.

It is interesting to note the artistic talent
that the best musicians and recordists can apply
to a record, a CD, a tape or a hi-res music
service.

Despite all those arrangements, circuits,
losses involved in record making, etc., the artists
that are really good, always get it through to
the listener.

No matter what they had to use!

-Dennis-

 

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