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A Response Hole?

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Posted on May 30, 2021 at 18:24:13
sisterray
Audiophile

Posts: 627
Location: Northern Illinois
Joined: October 3, 2007
Contributor
  Since:
April 28, 2012
I'm torn between buying the Dayton t-lines I posted about recently & building a sub-sat system using very small single drivers & a REL Tzero MkIII sub. The two approaches have their own strengths & weaknesses. I've experimented very extensively with very small single drivers, coming to value their lack of a crossover & their very wide dispersion. The imaging could be wonderful. Such a system, which I have implemented before with a different sub, can do a lot.

The issue is a potential hole in the response of the proposed sub-sat system. I say this because the Fs of the ScanSpeak 5F driver is about 100Hz, while the REL's upper range is 120Hz. That 20Hz, give or take, is all the room I have for blending the two. Is that enough? Am I hunting for a problem that wouldn't exist in an actual small apartment living room furnished with minimal furniture & heavy rug? If it matters, a second identical sub could be in the cards at some point in the future.

Opinions are appreciated, as always.


"'Cause when love is gone, there's always justice./And when justice is gone, there's always force./And when force is gone, there's always Mom. Hi Mom!" Laurie Anderson, "O Superman (For Massenet)"

 

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RE: A Response Hole?, posted on May 30, 2021 at 18:41:18
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 4669
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
I consider 1 sub itself poor integration for 2 speakers, that's why I run 2 because it makes a considerable diff. As for your specific inquiry on which to choose, let's see what others say although I would be tempted on the T-lines.



 

RE: A Response Hole?, posted on May 30, 2021 at 18:48:25
sisterray
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Posts: 627
Location: Northern Illinois
Joined: October 3, 2007
Contributor
  Since:
April 28, 2012
Story -

Thanks for the response.

The Tzero subs are certainly tiny enough for two to occupy the small floor space I'll have for Hi Fi in the new place. Two subs would be my preference.


"'Cause when love is gone, there's always justice./And when justice is gone, there's always force./And when force is gone, there's always Mom. Hi Mom!" Laurie Anderson, "O Superman (For Massenet)"

 

RE: A Response Hole?, posted on May 31, 2021 at 19:37:24
sisterray
Audiophile

Posts: 627
Location: Northern Illinois
Joined: October 3, 2007
Contributor
  Since:
April 28, 2012
I was so tempted by the t-lines that I just ordered a pair this evening. $50 off!


"'Cause when love is gone, there's always justice./And when justice is gone, there's always force./And when force is gone, there's always Mom. Hi Mom!" Laurie Anderson, "O Superman (For Massenet)"

 

RE: A Response Hole?, posted on May 31, 2021 at 20:13:03
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 14606
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
I do the following:

Roll off mains (high pass) about 50hz. This at 12db / octave. Using the preamp crossover.

Roll off sub about 40 to 45hz. This at 24db / octave Using the Subs crossover

The 'gap' in the middle fills in nicely all by itself since as one driver is decreasing in amplitude, the OTHER is increaseing.

It pretty much sums flat thru the crossover...

This is a Magnepan / HSU combination. Maggies are supposed to be good ot in the 30s somewhere, being MG1.6 while the sub has no practical limits at what I'm using as the upper end of ITS response.

Very musical setup and INVISIBLE to the ear. Shutting off the sub simply collapses the stage inward. It helps to have an oddly shaped room
Too much is never enough

 

RE: A Response Hole?, posted on June 1, 2021 at 09:44:38
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 4669
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
I hope they are worthy!



 

I think you made the right choice, posted on June 1, 2021 at 10:06:53
Dave_K
Audiophile

Posts: 3432
Joined: September 30, 2014
The Scanspeak 5F is for computer speakers.

It's super inefficient, rated just 80 dB. It also has an elevated treble which will probably have to be equalized to make it sound good. Bringing the treble response down will cost you another dB or two or three of sensitivity. It has a big motor, but the IEC 18.2 power rating is just 20W. So it's strictly for lower volume, near-field duty only.

I don't know much about those Dayton transmission line towers, but with 4" mid-woofers they should have pretty wide, even dispersion so I would expect good imaging from them as well.

 

RE: I think you made the right choice, posted on June 1, 2021 at 16:14:57
sisterray
Audiophile

Posts: 627
Location: Northern Illinois
Joined: October 3, 2007
Contributor
  Since:
April 28, 2012
Dave -

Everything you said about the 5F is true; I have extensive experience with it. It's time for something new. I agree regarding dispersion & the t-lines. DIY speaker building is over for me since I'm moving into an apartment in a month. I'm looking forward to something I've never tried before. I'm always on a very tight audio budget, and these fit that criterion perfectly.


"'Cause when love is gone, there's always justice./And when justice is gone, there's always force./And when force is gone, there's always Mom. Hi Mom!" Laurie Anderson, "O Superman (For Massenet)"

 

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