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Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2...

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Posted on December 28, 2020 at 10:55:35
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 15234
Joined: July 14, 2017
after two weeks and a few days, I decided to return them.
They're excellent speakers--accurate, detailed, good strong bass (probably their best point)--but they're too small for my room. Which is 18 by 12 with 7.5 foot ceilings, in case anybody asks. They got shrill when I tried to drive them up to my favorite earschplittenloudenboomer levels.
If I had a second system set up in a smaller room, they'd be keepers. They sound good on rock, classical, jazz, pop, you name it.
So, sticking with the MMGs, looking for better amplification instead.


The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

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RE: Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2..., posted on December 28, 2020 at 11:12:42
I've had great experiences with my MMGs and Hypex class D amplification.

I've found it is almost impossible to overpower Magnepans. Reserve power is extremely important. I would say at least 300 watts into 4 ohms for MMG.

 

Yeah, I'm on that path., posted on December 28, 2020 at 11:21:50
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 15234
Joined: July 14, 2017
Got a couple of units picked out. Not ridiculously expensive but a hard sell nonetheless.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

RE: Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2..., posted on December 28, 2020 at 11:32:49
G Squared
Audiophile

Posts: 6028
Location: Washington, DC Metro Area
Joined: November 16, 2004
Consider a sub and roll the MMGs off.

Love your Haflers.
Gsquared

 

I have a sub..., posted on December 28, 2020 at 11:44:31
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 15234
Joined: July 14, 2017
a ported el-cheapo Velodyne. I've tried it with the MMGs but it's hopeless. Either too much or too little.
Think the big issue with the MMGs is just power. Not enough power or current or something. Or maybe it's just me going through some audiophilia nervousa.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

RE: I have a sub..., posted on December 28, 2020 at 12:15:14
G Squared
Audiophile

Posts: 6028
Location: Washington, DC Metro Area
Joined: November 16, 2004
My Rythmic sub is integrated seamlessly with a Loki To roll off the LRS or ProAc mains. You may also need more power. The addition of a quality sub improved my listening experience.
Gsquared

 

RE: I have a sub..., posted on December 28, 2020 at 12:26:00
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 15234
Joined: July 14, 2017
I don't think I need a sub. If I stand up, there's plenty of bass. When I sit, most of it goes away, so clearly there's an issue with room acoustics.
Thinking about trying a Crown XLS 1502.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

RE: I have a sub..., posted on December 28, 2020 at 16:15:38
G Squared
Audiophile

Posts: 6028
Location: Washington, DC Metro Area
Joined: November 16, 2004
Ask on planar. Folks have tried Crowns Maggie's. I ran a DC 300 for years.
Gsquared

 

Done my searches..., posted on December 28, 2020 at 16:27:25
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 15234
Joined: July 14, 2017
People either love them or hate them.
There's an XLS 2000 for sale at USA Audiomart. That's got more power than the starship Enterprise into 4 ohms. Dunno. Giving it deeep thought.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

RE: Done my searches..., posted on December 28, 2020 at 17:36:31
G Squared
Audiophile

Posts: 6028
Location: Washington, DC Metro Area
Joined: November 16, 2004
Sounds like fun. Maggie's eat it.
Gsquared

 

RE: I have a sub..., posted on December 28, 2020 at 20:46:05
hahax@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 3729
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 22, 2006
If changing ear position changes bass it has nothing to do with the amp. It is a speaker/room interaction problem and probably means repositioning your speakers/seat/room set up.

 

There are multiple issues., posted on December 29, 2020 at 04:10:56
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 15234
Joined: July 14, 2017
You're right about the amp. Changing amps won't fix the bass "hole;" that's purely room acoustics.
My amp is a Hafler DH-200. It's rated at 100 wpc into 8 ohms and 175 wpc into 4 ohms. Doesn't double into four ohms which is usually the rule of thumb with Maggies.
Even though it's an old amp, I had it rebuilt two or three years ago. Sometimes, and this might just be my imagination, the amp seems like it's straining to drive the Maggies. Again, my brain might be making my ears hear something that isn't happening. The Hafler has those capacitors about the size of beer cans.
At any rate, the goal with the Elacs was to eliminate the bass hole, which they actually did, and be easier to drive than MMGs, which they were. Unfortunately, they were just too small to fill the room. Bass was no problem, those little woofers generated enough bass to be felt through the floor upstairs. The problem was more like size if that makes any sense. The image they threw just wasn't big enough. With Maggies, the sound comes from everywhere, like a tornado of sound. The Elacs couldn't do that.
Otherwise, they're excellent speakers. Not just for the price, but excellent period. If I had a second system in smaller room, I'd have kept them.
In the meantime, I think I have the bass issue with the MMGs solved. Moved some furniture, repositioned the Maggies closer to the back wall and farther apart. Played The Poll Winners Ride Again last night and the bass was thumping, even in the "hole."


The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

RE: You're up against The Iron Law of Audio, posted on December 29, 2020 at 04:33:12
B. Scarpia
Audiophile

Posts: 2296
Location: Near Pisgah Forest
Joined: October 30, 2019
Contributor
  Since:
May 23, 2020
"No purchase that isn't 2X more expensive than the incumbent is an upgrade."

Any Damned Fool Knows One Horse Can Run Faster Than Another

 

That ain't necessarily so., posted on December 29, 2020 at 04:42:24
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 15234
Joined: July 14, 2017
Most of my gear is used. For example, only paid $15 for my Kenwood C1. Only $75 for the Hafler DH-101.
Does that mean all I have to spend in order to upgrade from the Kenwood is $30?
The way I looked at Elacs vs. Maggies, MMGs are the bottom of the line, B6.2 are one up from the bottom of the line.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

RE: I have a sub..., posted on December 29, 2020 at 07:10:08
digepix
Audiophile

Posts: 699
Location: nyc
Joined: October 30, 2002
I tried MMG's with my Krell which is 100 watts/side like your Hafler and they played nice. I would think it's a current thing since my Krell can deliver 40 amps. When I tried it with my YBA which is 50 watts or 90 into 4 ohms it wasn't quite as convincing.

 

RE: I have a sub..., posted on December 29, 2020 at 07:44:09
Brick527
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Joined: April 7, 2014
Think you need to get your room acoustics addressed first.No matter the speaker or amp you'll never get an accurate representation of what their capable of.
Untreated rooms can have amazingly huge problems with frequency response .If you have frequency cancellations due to wall boundary interference no amount of power is going to help.Lots of info out there.

 

Can't mount the Maggies on the back wall., posted on December 29, 2020 at 08:59:18
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 15234
Joined: July 14, 2017
Well, what I call the back wall. Per the article you linked, it's the front wall. I've always referred to the wall behind the speakers as the back wall.
But moving them closer that wall helped tremendously. Moving them farther apart did, too.
The only issue I'm having with the amp is does it have enough power? That's all.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

RE: Can't mount the Maggies on the back wall., posted on December 29, 2020 at 14:51:20
Brick527
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Joined: April 7, 2014
There were 3 options addressed
" To help you decide how far to put the speakers from your wall, use one of the three options given in this guide. Ideally, you will either

1. Flush mount them to eliminate boundary interference from the front wall. This is the only way to completely remove quarter wavelength cancellation caused by the wall behind your speakers.

2. Put them very close to the wall, moving the cancellation notch to a higher frequency so it can be tamed with absorption.

3.Place them far enough away from the wall so the cancellation notch is outside the frequency range your speakers reproduce."

Magnepans usually use option 3,5 or more feet from the wall,
because of being dipoles.

Anyway the point I was making is that if your speakers and room setup is creating all kinds of cancellation notch's in the frequency due to room boundary issues more power wont help.
Good luck.


 

Had them about 5 feet out from the wall behind them..., posted on December 29, 2020 at 15:09:56
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 15234
Joined: July 14, 2017
Moved them back about a foot and a half towards the wall behind them and away from my listening position and that seems to have fixed the issues with the bass.
Plenty of it, and it no longer changes when I'm standing or sitting.
Thanks for your help!

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

RE: Had them about 5 feet out from the wall behind them..., posted on December 29, 2020 at 15:31:02
Brick527
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Joined: April 7, 2014
Glad it's all good.Enjoy.

 

Sounded pretty damned spectacular in fact., posted on December 29, 2020 at 15:40:00
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 15234
Joined: July 14, 2017
Found a problem with my pre-amp. Channel imbalance with a bit of distortion on the left side. Got the backup in the system right now.
Been looking for an excuse to send it off to Musical Concepts....

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

Wow, what satisfaction. The asylum helps again. nt, posted on December 29, 2020 at 16:44:51
alaskahiatt
Audiophile

Posts: 5729
Joined: December 9, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
November 1, 2005
nt

 

I see the problem..., posted on December 29, 2020 at 18:00:22
Jonesy
Audiophile

Posts: 2379
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Joined: September 1, 2005
Contributor
  Since:
March 1, 2018
You're running 2 preamps. You need to throw an amplifier in there to get the best sound out of those speakers!

(Sorry. I couldn't resist!)

Cheers!

Jonesy


"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."




 

RE: Sounded pretty damned spectacular in fact., posted on December 29, 2020 at 22:21:13
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 26433
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since:
January 28, 2004
Another stimulus check soon for you to stimulate those Maggies with more power.

You only live once or so.

LOTS of good Class D info to the left of this page.

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

Amplifier? Whuzzat? nt, posted on December 30, 2020 at 03:49:20
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 15234
Joined: July 14, 2017
nt

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

Ah...that stimulus check..., posted on December 30, 2020 at 04:18:11
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 15234
Joined: July 14, 2017
if it's $600, it's going into my grandkids 529 account.
If it's $2000, then I can deal.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

RE: Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2..., posted on December 31, 2020 at 20:19:13
dandaroy
Audiophile

Posts: 423
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: June 24, 2003
Elac Debut Reference is more refined sound. Also if you want ear splitting levels, you neither doing justice to the speaker nor your ears!

-------
I. Dandaroy

 

No doubt..., posted on January 1, 2021 at 05:43:34
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 15234
Joined: July 14, 2017
but they're also more expensive.
As far as volume levels go, it's weird. When I'm using headphones, I'm careful never to turn them up too loud, but something about speakers makes me want to crank them up.
At any rate, it wasn't so much the volume as it was the size. The Maggies throw a huge soundstage--of course, they're much bigger speakers--that the Elacs can't match in my largish listening space.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

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