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Embiggen the sound

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Posted on June 27, 2020 at 07:52:02
Bill the K
Audiophile

Posts: 7752
Joined: June 3, 2006
I cannot forget my no crossover idea for a multi driver speaker with a time aligned sloping front baffle. Five drivers of varying sizes and each one having variable equalisers adjustable by remote. We will have our own unique settings. I don't know if it some way copy the active speakers with DSP as in some new speakers. I do not know if my idea is practical as of now but I am sure it will embiggen the sound. Excuse if it sounds crazy.

Cheers
Bill

 

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RE: Embiggen the sound, posted on June 27, 2020 at 08:32:31
dee eye why
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Posts: 804
Location: so. ohio
Joined: March 20, 2003
Sounds downright presidential to me...


.
Freak out...Far out...In out....

 

A Perfectly Cromulent Idea! nt, posted on June 27, 2020 at 10:35:24
oldmkvi
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Posts: 9214
Joined: April 12, 2002
/

 

RE: Embiggen the sound, posted on June 27, 2020 at 11:16:02
B. Scarpia
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Posts: 1851
Location: Near Pisgah Forest
Joined: October 30, 2019
Contributor
  Since:
May 23, 2020
Well constructed and tested passive crossovers should interfere less with the source than the complexities of DSP.

Now, it isn't difficult, and it's been done, to use woofer and mid-woofer that naturally roll-off and require no protection. Use a tweeter that matches those two in sensitivity with just a cap/resistor for low level protection.

Never saw a 5 way, or 4 way for that matter that I liked except Infinite Slope. And Skyline Chili.


Emoji's: a visual aid for those who need to be drawn a picture

 

RE: Embiggen the sound, posted on June 27, 2020 at 11:30:11
pictureguy
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Posts: 13005
Location: SoCal
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Isn't your tagline from Kellogg?

As for DSP? Aren't most of complexitites sort of 'hidden' behind the software used to program?

The MiniDSP software is easy looking. And some models can use FIR filters...which DO sound like a PIA.
Too much is never enough

 

Well, posted on June 27, 2020 at 12:48:45
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 10548
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
If you're interesting in larger multi way systems, then why not look into multiple drivers that are in the same frequency range. Like a modified MTM type of design.

The major problem is that the average driver does not have that limited a range as to be 1/5the the listenable audio frequency.

You could do it with significant overlaps, but I'm not going to even suggest the complexity of how to design such a speaker. And if you did - why?

 

Ever try a tall line source?, posted on June 27, 2020 at 15:20:58
E-Stat
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  Since:
April 5, 2002
I find they are the only way to truly mimic the natural height of the musical experience.

 

WOW! Aimost Promulent! (nt), posted on June 27, 2020 at 22:29:27
Bill the K
Audiophile

Posts: 7752
Joined: June 3, 2006
nt

 

Do you know that Simpsons episode?, posted on June 27, 2020 at 22:39:56
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 9214
Joined: April 12, 2002
I'm guessing you do!

 

RE: WOW! Aimost Promulent! (nt), posted on June 27, 2020 at 22:48:47
rivervalley817
Audiophile

Posts: 2122
Joined: June 15, 2020
and gawd bless David X. Cohen no matter the hell

be well,

 

Thanks! I looked him up- nt, posted on June 27, 2020 at 23:13:54
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 9214
Joined: April 12, 2002
/

 

Lisa the Iconocast, posted on June 28, 2020 at 01:11:09
Bill the K
Audiophile

Posts: 7752
Joined: June 3, 2006
1996 episode. Lisa researching history of town. Cohen is a great writer

Bill

 

RE: Embiggen the sound, posted on June 28, 2020 at 09:46:23
b.l.zeebub
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Location: 52deg 28'N,1deg56'W
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Even the best designed passive crossover is substantially and audibly inferior to active operation with or without DSP.

 

RE: Embiggen the sound, posted on June 28, 2020 at 19:38:11
Bill the K
Audiophile

Posts: 7752
Joined: June 3, 2006
I guess my idea is over ambitious. I want different drivers playing different frequencies, thus eliminating the need for crossovers. From the feedback I understand such a design of drivers is not possible even with some overlap. I am thinking of variable equalisers to limit the frequencies but there may be various other problems which would need solution.

Cheers
Bill

 

RE: Embiggen the sound, posted on June 28, 2020 at 20:42:51
Presto
Audiophile

Posts: 5918
Location: Canada
Joined: November 10, 2004
Time alignment only works if your crossover results in a transient accurate response, aka constant group delay. Otherwise, the distance required for correct alignment would vary with frequency.

If you're going to go with DSP, there is no reason NOT to have a transient accurate end result, but there are caveats to this. You're only going to have truly transient accurate performance on the design axis. What is the design axis? Whatever the designer wants it to be, but generally X meters directly in front of the speaker. Then you get into off-axis and power response.

With digital IIR filters (ones that proximate the functions we can obtain with pasive crossovers) you can use forward-reverse phase processing to "correct" the group delay, but this requires a buffer period commonly referred to as a processing delay. Great for audio, terrible for A/V applications unless you have studio gear with which to delay the video signal, to re-sync audio and video.

FIR filters are nice. Like their phase-corrected IIR counterparts they too are transient accurate, but they result in what is called pre-ringing which is an audible no-no for many.

Bottom line, digital is the way to go if your source is digital files consisting of 1's and 0's. If you're a turntable analog officionado, the idea of digitizing a prestine analog signal in real time only to further defile it with DSP is heresy to some. And that's fine.

I've been listening to a DSP/Active system that uses the PC for both playback and crossover (and phase correction functions) for about 15 years now and haven't looked back. The sound is just SO transparent and accurate... lots of detail with no fatigue. VERY resolving.

I totally get why some guys like single drivers, minimalist crossovers, etc. but what they sometimes miss is that less is not always more. Drivers have natural rolloffs that result in non-linear performance, so in a sense drivers have their own natural low and high-pass filters by virtue of their mechanical and physical properties.

The biggest thing a newbie crossover designer needs to wrap their heads around is knowing the difference between the electrical crossover aka transfer function and the resultant acoustic response. Putting a 12db/octave 2nd order crossover on a midrange does not ensure a 2nd order response. The driver has it's own rolloff which must work with the electrical transfer function of the crossover to obtain the desired acoustic response. This is often lost on a lot of active crossover DIYers, to be honest.

Cheers,
Presto

 

RE: Embiggen the sound, posted on June 28, 2020 at 22:33:24
Bill the K
Audiophile

Posts: 7752
Joined: June 3, 2006
Thank you Sir for that detailed educative reply. I have a good idea of the complexities now. Appreciate.

Regards
Bill

 

RE: Embiggen the sound, posted on June 29, 2020 at 04:29:37
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 1763
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
Sound like the top of the line Bang&Olufsen speaker

 

RE: You should contact Bill Marchand, posted on June 29, 2020 at 05:19:46
B. Scarpia
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Location: Near Pisgah Forest
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Contributor
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May 23, 2020
He's The Man on active crossovers and worked with James Harrell on developing the Jumping Cactus Speakers

I had them for audition back about 15 years ago. They sounded way better than their inexpensive drivers would indicate.

Bill's easy to talk to and helped me when I was fooling around with Altec multi-driver systems.


Emoji's: a visual aid for those who need to be drawn a picture

 

B&O, posted on June 29, 2020 at 07:45:19
Bill the K
Audiophile

Posts: 7752
Joined: June 3, 2006
I checked the Beolab 50 on their site. Powered tweeter and 3 active mids and 2 active woofers. Remote. Similar to what I have in mind. I don't know how it sounds.Expensive at 30K.I want 40 to 20K Hz handled by 5 drivers of varying sizes. Each driver handling a limited range of frequencies with some overlap. Some frequency absorbing material could be invented by bright speaker designers.

Regards
Bill

 

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