Speaker Asylum

General speaker questions for audio and home theater.

Return to Speaker Asylum


Message Sort: Post Order or Asylum Reverse Threaded

Thiel's need crossover surgery - info needed

50.169.188.4

Posted on December 26, 2016 at 18:12:55
theaudiohiffle
Audiophile

Posts: 1130
Location: New England
Joined: July 6, 2002
I have a five channel audio system comprising two Thiel 2.2's as front L&R, with three Thiel 3.5's filling in the center, and rears. Each of course with an equalizer channel.

Recently thanks to Christmas choral music I became aware of how much midrange distortion the center 3.5 was exhibiting, with or without equalizer. I rotated in the rears and found the same thing. So I have isolated the distortion to the speakers, and to the mid-range drivers. I am pretty sure that the first-order crossover capacitors are gone.

So, some questions.

* Has someone here had a similar problem with these Thiels. If so did you do the repairs yourself. Is the crossover mounting board easily accessible, or better yet, removable through a speaker opening?

* Does anybody know of somebody offering a crossover repair service in the Northeast US that they could recommend.

* Would anybody by chance have a schematic of the internal crossover(s)that would show parts values?

Any assistance you can give will be appreciated.
Harry

 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
RE: Thiel's need crossover surgery - info needed, posted on December 26, 2016 at 18:27:17
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 8830
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
I don't think I've ever heard of a capacitor in a speaker going bad???? I would test the driver itself AND move the entire speaker to another stereo if possible and relisten.

Hopefully the problem isn't in the amp.

 

RE: Thiel's need crossover surgery - info needed, posted on December 26, 2016 at 18:29:59
Coner
Audiophile

Posts: 1895
Location: S.W. Washington state, USA
Joined: November 17, 2001
Could be, but it could also be a coil rub issue, so you need to
put a clean audio signal directly on the mids' terminals, bypassing
the crossover.

They probabably used high-grade caps, so unlikely it's that.

 

Sounds like..., posted on December 26, 2016 at 18:33:07
kootenay
Audiophile

Posts: 6068
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Joined: October 16, 2007
Contributor
  Since:
April 6, 2008
You need a new midrange driver.

If a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing well
(Proverb)

 

RE: Thiel's need crossover surgery - info needed, posted on December 26, 2016 at 18:36:17
Coner
Audiophile

Posts: 1895
Location: S.W. Washington state, USA
Joined: November 17, 2001
Airtime, could you PM me on who did your 250M rebuild?.

Coner

 

RE: Thiel's need crossover surgery - info needed, posted on December 27, 2016 at 06:42:30
Barry
Audiophile

Posts: 642
Joined: November 24, 1999
Contributor
  Since:
January 18, 2009
Try Millersound for repair. North of Philly in PA.

 

RE: Sounds like..., posted on December 27, 2016 at 07:23:18
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 8830
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
It would be unlikely he would blow both mids and not any other drivers on that speaker as well as any of the other three speakers.

He does need to isolate the driver and test at the least

One simple test. gently push the cone on and out and listen for coil rub.

He needs to find another stereo and try the speakers on that. Or as mentioned - a clean signal.

Otherwise he needs to start looking at his HT amp.

 

RE: Thiel's need crossover surgery - info needed, posted on December 27, 2016 at 07:47:28
George S. Roland
Audiophile

Posts: 1038
Location: N W Pennsylvania
Joined: March 20, 2004
Have you contacted Thiel about your questions? Maybe that would be pointless, but it seems they might be able to help with some of your questions that, so far, have gone unaddressed--like a crossover schematic and how physically to access the drivers in the enclosure.

They might also be able to suggest a repair shop familiar with their older model speakers.

Good luck,

George

 

RE: Thiel's need crossover surgery - info needed, posted on December 27, 2016 at 08:54:36
neolith
Audiophile

Posts: 3824
Location: Virginia
Joined: February 21, 2002
Contributor
  Since:
December 2, 2004
I found pictures of the XO on www.diyaudio.com. It uses non-polar electrolytics. Replacement looks straight forward if you can handle a sorldering iron. I would expect a bad electrolytic to show leakage so visual inspection may confirm your diagnoysis. A bad cap presents as a short and in a first order high pass filter it would allow the mid-driver to range into low frequencies where it was not designed to go. The best way to evaluate the crossover would be with a cheap LCR meter (under $50 on eBay) which would be much cheaper than a repair shop.





I married the perfect woman. The downside is everything that goes wrong is my fault.



 

Perhaps..., posted on December 27, 2016 at 09:45:40
kootenay
Audiophile

Posts: 6068
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Joined: October 16, 2007
Contributor
  Since:
April 6, 2008
I have the Thiel CS 3.6 speakers that were exhibiting the same problem that sounded distorted on the one speaker. Tried to isolate them by checking all the drivers, which includes testing the X-over networks. Everything was fine. Then one day the highs was gone. It turned out that the tweeter was blown. Luckily enough Thiel was able to replaced it for me.

I tried to figured out as to how the tweeter got blown in the first place and what caused it. Then it dawned on me, during the New Year's eve festivities I was using them for Karaoke duties. But the funny thing was how come it only happened on one of the tweeters. Oh well it's probably one of those mysteries that I will never be able to figure out.

BTW, ever since I forbid the Thiels from doing the Karaoke duties, it has been behaving well.

If a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing well
(Proverb)

 

Yeap I cooked a tweeter, posted on December 27, 2016 at 11:13:04
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 8830
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
I think that's the nature of those things. High frequency movement and one day - poof.

Funny that you thought the same thing about it being the mids. Hope the OP is reading that.

 

RE: Thiel's need crossover surgery - info needed, posted on December 27, 2016 at 14:20:50
theaudiohiffle
Audiophile

Posts: 1130
Location: New England
Joined: July 6, 2002
Many thanks. Yes, I can handle a soldering iron, and I do have some test gear. So it sounds doable.
Harry

 

RE: Thiel's need crossover surgery - info needed, posted on December 27, 2016 at 14:54:31
briggs
Audiophile

Posts: 1450
Location: Connecticut
Joined: April 16, 2002
Good enough replacement caps are much cheaper than that meter.

 

RE: Thiel's need crossover surgery - info needed, posted on December 27, 2016 at 18:50:33
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 8830
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
As long as you are not cranking it the natural roll off of the driver will kick in. So there should be no distortion even if you shorted the cap out. If it's first order and the cap was shorted it would either sound louder or no sound at all.

And again, I've never seen a speaker cap just go???

 

RE: Thiel's need crossover surgery - info needed, posted on December 29, 2016 at 17:05:21
theaudiohiffle
Audiophile

Posts: 1130
Location: New England
Joined: July 6, 2002
Thanks to all of you here who provided helpful suggestions. It turned out to be a bad Outlaw 200 monoblock, aided and assisted by a spade connection that had frayed under its protective covering.

Fortunately I have a spare monoblock, so the system will stay up while the defective unit goes back to outlaw.
Harry

 

RE: Thiel's need crossover surgery - info needed, posted on December 29, 2016 at 20:18:26
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 10471
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
Harry-

if you ever are in need of parts / service, consult Rob Gillium at Thiel in Kentucky. He takes care of the older and more vintage models of Thiel loudspeakers. Happy Listening!

 

Page processed in 0.030 seconds.