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A tale of 3 speakers!!

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Posted on January 5, 2013 at 15:34:10
audio39
Audiophile

Posts: 669
Joined: July 15, 2003
 I'll preface my story with my feelings about those who can truly afford to have a 2nd system - you people STINK! In the case of this story both of my audio friends involved have a main 2 channel system and a home theater system in a different room (Dental professionals!!!)

From Audio friend #1 I borrowed a pair of Pioneer S-1EX speakers...I've only heard them in his Home Theater room and was always impressed. These I carted to Audio friend #2's home - he owns Sonus Faber Amati Homage speakers in his 2 channel system and Monitor Audio PL300's (a speaker I previously owned) in his Home Theater room with of course other MA speakers to make up the surround sound system.

So my buddy helps me carry the Pioneer's into his 2 channel room, wow these things are heavy. We initially set them at the back of the room and spend a while listening to his setup which includes (2) Luxman M-800a's, the Luxman C800f pre, Classe's Omega SACD player, and finally a Sota Nova table. Good company to be in for sure!

Reluctant would be the best way to describe my buddy's desire to move his Amati's...but a promise is a promise. We setup the S-1EX speakers in the same location as the Amati's, after only one song we toed them in significantly less then the Amati's had been. I was and am very impressed with these speakers. I was not expecting the level of bass performance we heard, nor the imaging available from the S-1EX. This speaker does alot of things right. Jefferson Starship's "Jane" has always been one of my favourite songs - following the bassline was ultra-easy, Mickey's vocals were rendered superbly, the music was everywhere and the Pioneer's simply disappeared.

After 2 hours of listening we took a break to have some lunch...I had to ask. Did my friend think the Pioneer's compared favourably with his SF's? His answer being "yes!!!". This I had thought as well.

Following lunch (and no beer yet) I queried at his interest to give his PL300's a try in his 2 channel room. We lugged the Pioneers to the back of the room and headed for the Home Theater room. Moving the PL300's was much easier then moving either of the other 2 speakers. Once up and running I remembered why I had liked the Monitor Audio's so much - that ribbon tweeter is second to none.

Clearly the PL300 is a speaker built to play loud, and Led Zeppelin was early on the play list. Now it was Miller time. The PL300's rock so easy, the bass is deep and extended and tight. Listening to Vivian Campbell let fly with Dio on "Last in Line" and "We Rock" was wild. The big Luxman amps have serious oomph! The PL300's just drank it up.

So early evening came and reality set back in. We put my buddy's house back together and I drove home with the big Pioneers in the back of my truck. Son #1 helped me bring them inside the house...I returned them to their owner the following day.

So here's what I know from my day spent with these fine speakers....

The Sonus Fabers are soft and warm and cuddly, you can listen forever I think, but they don't get my heart racing. They're similar in character to my big Harbeths.

The big Pioneers drew me into the music, they command your attention, and they do almost everything right - and if they do anything wrong they have it hidden very well.

And the Monitor Audio PL300's, well they are just plain exciting. They rev like a supercharged Hemi, and I miss mine.

It seems unfortunate that Pioneer decided to keep the S-1EX under the parent name rather than TAD. Our hobby has a snobbish thread through it, and as much as I would like to consider the Pioneers for purchase I would be afraid that the resale would be very poor.

I have one more good holiday story about turntables, but that's for another day.

Rick.

 

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RE: A tale of 3 speakers!!, posted on January 5, 2013 at 17:01:52
chocolate_lover9999@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 1628
Location: South Central Coast, California
Joined: October 12, 2003
 " Our hobby has a snobbish thread through it, and as much as I would like to consider the Pioneers for purchase I would be afraid that the resale would be very poor"

check out Neil Gader's review of the Pioneer SP BS22 speakers. Audio Snobs might readily sneer at the name Pioneer and especially speakers at their ridiculously low price yet some might listen and compare them to much higher costing speakers with a "high end" moniker.

Yes, indeed, our hobby does have a snobbish thread through it. Just a thought...perhaps we need to change the paradigm of "this speaker (or whatever component) sounds BETTER than" to "this speaker just sounds DIFFERENT than". The qualifier of "better" not only leads to upgraditis and audiophilia nervosa but also to snobbishness.

 

RE: A tale of 3 speakers!!, posted on January 6, 2013 at 05:03:32
abs1
 We've always had a bit of snobism in our hobby. I can remember (back in the 1950's and 1960's) how the McIntosh and Marantz guys sort of looked down on the Dynaco, Fisher, and Scott owners:-)

But all of those Andrew Jones Pioneer (& TAD) speakers are really nice and present a whole bunch of sound quality for the dollar. If you think that the SP-BS22's are good (and they certainly are) you should give the SP-BS41's a listen. I have a pair of these that I drag out to my three-season sunroom in the spring (they spend the winter boxed up in the garage) so I can enjoy music while I Bar-B-Q and enjoy some cool liquid refreshment. Cost me about $125 on Amazon. A fantastic buy!

 

RE: A tale of 3 speakers!!, posted on January 6, 2013 at 05:07:27
Ozzy
Audiophile

Posts: 7594
Joined: September 21, 1999
 Sounds like a good time was had by all. A lot of fine equipment and some excellent speakers.

Oz



Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill

 

RE: A tale of 3 speakers!!, posted on January 6, 2013 at 07:37:04
bh46118
Audiophile

Posts: 217
Joined: December 15, 2010
 The great majority of the grandiose claims made about the mostly miniscule improvements gained by spending absurd amounts of money on "High End" equipment are laughable. I once heard a rep say, with our turntable you can tell not only that the piano is a Steinway, but also the type of wood floor the Steinway is is being played on. Most of the time, but not always, "High End" = snake oil.

 

RE: A tale of 3 speakers!!, posted on January 7, 2013 at 13:55:03
Brian H P
Audiophile

Posts: 1291
Location: Oregon
Joined: December 18, 2012
"It seems unfortunate that Pioneer decided to keep the S-1EX under the parent name rather than TAD. Our hobby has a snobbish thread through it, and as much as I would like to consider the Pioneers for purchase I would be afraid that the resale would be very poor."

True, I've heard snobbish 'philes dismiss the brand as "Pie-in-ear," probably without giving the products a fair listen. The TAD brand represents a worthy attempt to appeal to that more "upscale" market, and are undoubtedly better-made and (hopefully) better-sounding.

But a huge company like Pioneer (or Sony, or several others) operates under an "economy of scale" which allows them to make and retail excellent products at affordable (for most people) prices, IF they choose to do so. If the model in question were to be marketed under the TAD moniker, they could improve the cosmetics, quadruple (or more) the MSRP, and sell considerably fewer pairs to the "snob" market, possibly at lower net profit. But would the resale value then equal or exceed the current "new" price? I dunno.

If you like them, can afford them, and think they'll make you happy for awhile, why not just get them? If you decide after awhile that they don't quite cut the mustard in your main system, pick up an inexpensive integrated amp and disc player, move it all into the bedroom, and you too can have a second system!

 

RE: A tale of 3 speakers!!, posted on January 7, 2013 at 14:42:42
DrChaos
Audiophile

Posts: 2063
Location: San Diego
Joined: July 13, 2009
What about this notion: perhaps the audio snob community ought to start distinguishing companies specifically by their actions and performance, regardless of whether their names are "well known".

And in fact, Pioneer is not a particularly widespread Japanese brand.

 

It's kind of a quandry...., posted on January 8, 2013 at 05:24:42
Ozzy
Audiophile

Posts: 7594
Joined: September 21, 1999
 ....average consumers will consider the price too high. And high end snobs, too low. Can't win.

Oz



Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill

 

RE: A tale of 3 speakers!!, posted on January 8, 2013 at 12:07:05
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 6112
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001
 You were correct worrying about the Pioneer's resale value. In fact brand new Pioneer S-1EX are already selling for $6999 ---{as opposed to their $10K+ list price}--- on Audiogon at the link below...

I'm listening to:




Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)

Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers


 

RE: A tale of 3 speakers!!, posted on January 8, 2013 at 12:45:28
AudioSoul
Audiophile

Posts: 4594
Location: north central AZ
Joined: July 9, 2005
I wana here the turntable story, I wana here the turntable story....
In Vinylasylum of course.......

 

Thanks for sharing..., posted on January 8, 2013 at 13:05:29
Arvind Kohli
Reviewer

Posts: 609
Joined: January 23, 2002
 ....I remain thoroughly convinced that only direct comparisons can really help determine relative performance. An A/B setup would be even more interesting.

 

RE: Thanks for sharing..., posted on January 9, 2013 at 08:48:34
bh46118
Audiophile

Posts: 217
Joined: December 15, 2010
 I agree. The memory is a very fleeting thing.

 

RE: A tale of 3 speakers!!, posted on January 9, 2013 at 14:26:53
audio39
Audiophile

Posts: 669
Joined: July 15, 2003
 This coming weekend for sure...

 

RE: A tale of 3 speakers!!, posted on January 9, 2013 at 14:30:01
audio39
Audiophile

Posts: 669
Joined: July 15, 2003
 The store is claiming that their low price is due to volume purchase...although I have seen this a few times already. In fact my friend purchased the entire home theater set at something like 40% of list...perhaps the mark up is significant on this product is significant.

 

RE: Thanks for sharing..., posted on January 9, 2013 at 14:48:47
audio39
Audiophile

Posts: 669
Joined: July 15, 2003
 I'm certainly no reviewer, and I only wrote this because I believed it would be of interest to this community, but I do not entirely agree with your assertion.

I'm an Engineer, and I've had the pleasure on more than one occasion to be involved and/or lead large R&D projects where we were routinely comparing A vs B vs C...this was sometimes equipment related, other times process related. Of course we were constantly measuring, driven by targets or expected outcomes.

So what the hell does that have to do with direct A/B listening tests vs the method I used...well the measure is pleasure!! I honestly didn't intend that to rhyme.

Seriously though, I was not concerned even the smallest amount about reviewers terms or measures the day I spent with this gear...I was only concerned with how it made me feel. When I listened to the PL300's I wanted to rock, and rock heavy. When I listened to the SF's I wanted to listen to the likes of Billy Joel and Supertramp and just kind of mellow out. When I listened to the Pioneers I wanted to explore my friends entire library of music...I wanted to sit and listen to tunes all day...but all kinds of tunes.

I've been involved in direct A vs B listening gatherings...if the gear was worth listening to in the first place the outcome has always been indeterminable. No, for me it's just the emotional connection I get when listening to music.

My present speakers, Harbeth M40's, are beautiful music makers. Never an offensive sound is reproduced by these speakers, but I would trade them for the S-1EX. When I listen to my Harbeths I do enjoy the experience, but they lull me in, the S-1EX's drew me in and excited me.

Anyway, that's me 2 cents.

Rick.

 

At $10,000 per pair, I don't see the lack of snob appeal??, posted on January 9, 2013 at 17:00:24
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15167
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003
 I must be unique then: $10,000 for a pair of loudspeakers is pretty 'snobbish' to me!! Said the owner of some Axiom loudspeakers!

They look very nice. I always thought some fullrange loudspeakers would be a dream fulfilled for me.

SONY seems to have some very over-priced loudspeakers at the last show: $27,000 and no snob appeal at all!!!

 

RE: Thanks for sharing..., posted on January 9, 2013 at 17:51:13
Arvind Kohli
Reviewer

Posts: 609
Joined: January 23, 2002
 Hmmm...that is an interesting perspective and one that cannot really be argued with. But maybe a point of clarification is needed - is the objective to seek the speaker that "gives" more pleasure OR the one that "sounds" more pleasurable?

If the objective is the former, then I can't think of any other methodology that what you suggest.

If the objective is the latter, then wouldn't A/B testing be a better methodology. Is it not possible that if one product evokes a certain pre-conceived notion [because of it's appearance or reputation or whatever]; then could the pre-conceived notion not bias one's mind. Then maybe a speaker that sounds less pleasurable but is also extremely pleasing to look at has a cummulative pleasure factor greater than the next speaker which is actually more pleasing to look at but is just plain ugly.

I guess I am convinced that the human mind is suggestible and fallible to no end, and you can almost never be cautious enough to safeguard against the fallibility of the human mind. IMHO.

 

RE: Thanks for sharing..., posted on January 10, 2013 at 03:50:49
audio39
Audiophile

Posts: 669
Joined: July 15, 2003
 Valid points...and I would not know how to guard against those influences.

For sure I have purchased the wrong product on occasion due to it's reputation or preceived quality based on it's appearance...but I suppose in this particular case I feel certain my findings were based solely on sincere measure. Obviously the SF's and the PL300's are prettier speakers then the S-1EX.

Anyway, your point is taken and considered. Thanks for just one more thing to cloud my purchasing judgement!!! LOL.

Rick.

 

They were well made, posted on January 14, 2013 at 09:46:05
badman
Reviewer

Posts: 8801
Location: Tustin, CA (Orange County)
Joined: March 10, 2001
 the sonys that is. Nice Scan Speak drivers, too.

But 27k? nah.



Bass is supposed to sound big. 6.5" is not a woofer size.


 

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