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Lost PayPal SNAD chargeback, buyer kept tube amp AND money, recourse?

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Posted on February 23, 2017 at 19:14:13
Funky Bob
Audiophile

Posts: 837
Joined: May 16, 2003
 I sold a tube amp for $700 on eBay. Buyer had a case of buyer's remorse and wanted to return with SNAD as an excuse (no return policy). I won the eBay SNAD case but lost the subsequent PP CC chargeback. The buyer's bank let him keep the amp AND the money. What recourse do I have in getting the amp back or recover the cost of it? I have sent the buyer a couple of emails but no response so far. He's in a different state so I can't sue him for small claims unless I want to travel to his state and file the claim locally. Thanks!

 

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RE: Lost PayPal SNAD chargeback, buyer kept tube amp AND money, recourse?, posted on May 13, 2017 at 00:26:25
awesterner
Audiophile

Posts: 23
Location: Seattle
Joined: May 7, 2017
 I found out the hard way that Ebay's policy is "the buyer is always right," even when the buyer is CLEARLY wrong. I sold a USED high end video card on FEE bay. The buyer claimed it was defective and sent me his nearly new (practically pristine) video card that had a defective fan. In the ensuing communication, I PROVED the buyer was lying and FEE bay still sided with him and FEE bay stated straight up that that is their POLICY. SO, KNOW this before you sell anything on FEE bay. They will ALWAYS side with the buyer. I used to sell blank tube amp chassis on FEE bay. I also sold other tube amp related parts. I stopped altogether. I listed on forums instead and offered discounts for those who would do business with me outside the FEE bay venue.

 

Sorry, I know it's an old post, but..., posted on September 5, 2017 at 10:48:11
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10047
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 "I PROVED the buyer was lying and FEE bay still sided with him and FEE bay stated straight up that that is their POLICY."

I had the exact opposite experience with a defective item that I bought a few years ago. PayPal told me point blank that they represent the interests of the Seller. Anyway, as a seller, your protection lies in converting the funds to cash immediately. In other words, as soon as you receive payment for an expensive item, transfer the funds to your PayPal-linked bank account. Then transfer the funds from that account to a separate account that PayPal can't access. This forces PayPal/eBay to use logic and legality to resolve the issue, rather than using you as a scapegoat to minimize their transaction expenses.





 

RE: That's The Way The Cookie Crumbles, posted on February 25, 2017 at 12:53:10
X-2000R
Audiophile

Posts: 335
Location: SoCal
Joined: March 1, 2006
 That's just one of the risks you take by selling on Ebay. You are most likely SOL.

Selling there gives you much bigger exposure and (usually) a far higher selling price than you can dream of on any other venue (including right here on AA).

But with those perks comes risk. You are basically at the mercy of the ethics of said buyer and if he decides to pull that, your odds of successfully fighting it are pretty low. Not impossible. But definitely a very steep uphill battle. Ebay is all about making sure the BUYERS are happy, not the sellers. They have the sellers by the short hairs and they know it. Many, many people are desperate and/or greedy enough to acquiesce to pretty much any terms of service Ebay can conjure up, regardless of how fair, ethical, or even legal because of the size of their audience and the potential selling price.

Think playing slot machines. You can pay the penny slots (selling anywhere but Ebay). Your exposure and risk level is low but so is the maximum reward potential. Or you can play the $5 slots. The potential windfall is exponentially higher but then so is the amount of risk you have to take.

You can't have it both ways. If you want a large audience, a high selling price, and both in seven days or less, you're just going to have to accept the occasional haircut.

Don't like that? Then stay off Ebay and list your items on the small community sites. The playing field is much more level and you can generally set your own terms. But at the same time, the most you can ever hope to make is maybe one fifth what it would go for on Ebay. And it may be weeks or months before any buyers come along.

 

RE: That's The Way The Cookie Crumbles, posted on May 11, 2017 at 11:45:05
amnesiac
Audiophile

Posts: 717
Joined: August 21, 2002
 I disagree selling hifi on ebay is no good anymore for small sellers . an ever increasing percentage of pricks know that paypal rules are in their favor and intend to rip sellers off on every large buy from small sellers. big sellers i believe have more power in disputes. if you are an occasional large value seller I wouldn't risk it personally. Or add enough on to allow for partial paypulls because some buyers see sellers buying price as simply a starting negotiating price and start a partial paypull claim knowing they get it every time.

also consider that vintage hifi collectors especially are by there very nature selfish unreasonable people. think about anyone that considers it ok to fill there house with gear they could never use simply because they desire it is usually a selfish dysfunctional person.
also consider cultural differences. many larger less western cultures consider corruption and scamming as cultural norms and will rip you off and be even offended when you call them on it. they feel for example you allowed me to scam you its your own fault! why are you getting angry with me? Sadly with multiculturalism we can no longer expect people to act honorably. before you get offended go look into it properly you will find legitimate study's showing this to be true.

tips for buying vintage speakers on ebay via post. never buy drivers from an audiophile. check what they are buying. chances are if they are worth having they will have kept them for themselves or sold them locally. your best chance. of buying a great pair of drivers is from a picker or lay person selling them still in the boxes. look for drivers for eg 8 inch drivers in there smallest recommended box because chances are they where run high on a shelf with a small amp for background music.

consider with vintage alnico error drivers that it can take 3 pairs to get a good pair through the post.

never buy a vintage tube off a radio guy unless you like to gamble because there idea off good can be very different to yours. again vintage radio guys can be the worst see above. beware of a nice pair of tubes in radioparts. often audio guys that get bad valves list them in radio in fact as above never buy dht from audio guys see above. I only buy a nice old tube on ebay from a big volume seller.

and personally I have quit buying a tube with any whitening of getter. I believe they are never going to sound good once they have whitened getter. your better off with a really pristine (ie a tube that has been in a warm dry place all its life) indirectly heated pent ode triode wired then a half gassed dht (not considered gassy by test). admittedly i haven't ab tested this last theory i plan to shortly.

sorry about this mess like all my posts its in the early hours in bed typing with mouse on ht tv system. though i usually delete them before i post them but this one iam not because this info has cost me dearly over the years as i live in small town in aussi and have had to ship everything off ebay i have, i have been ripped more times then not. i have been buying off ebay since the beginning i have seen many ebay rule changes and policy shifts. recently ebay has become only interested in big hi volume sellers. even larger vintage sellers know they no longer have to fear negative feedback. all they have to do is ring up and there neg feedback will be removed. so dont think the fear of negfe will keep them honest. i allso believe if a seller is to dispute you in ebay is because now they will win. go to paypal instead you have mutch better odds. Never be angry in message box it will go against you always communicate in ebay message never let the seller take you out into email or phone be suspicious if they try. everything in message is reviewed as evidence in disputes. never put home number in ebay. occasionally you come across people that will stalk you it has happened to me once when i worked out i was being scammed and pulled out off a 200 dollar sale. the guy stalked me for two years. if you want to sell its best to have a separate buyer account for this reason.

 

RE: Lost PayPal SNAD chargeback, buyer kept tube amp AND money, recourse?, posted on February 24, 2017 at 10:50:46
baileyler
Audiophile

Posts: 359
Location: Chadds Ford, PA
Joined: January 17, 2007
 Check the latest Paypal policy. I seem to remember reading that the buyer is limited to one recourse (Ebay, Paypal or chargeback), and that there may be some recourse via Paypal in the event of failure at Ebay money back guarantee then use of chargeback.

 

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