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Decware SE84UFO25

107.126.57.94

Posted on April 29, 2021 at 08:36:00
weedeewop
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Location: Central Wisconsin
Joined: June 22, 2013
I am considering a Decware SE84UFO25 SET rated at 2.3 wpc. Having auditioned the amplifier and various Decware speakers I think it may be a viable option.
I am seeking advice from those that have experience with Decware amps and what speakers you found to mate with them especially well. Also, ideas on speakers that you have used with similar low power amps that may be a good fit. My listening bias leans to acoustic music, especially jazz. I also enjoy ambient, electronic, occasional folk, and classical music. For classical I lean towards smaller scale performances of the medieval and baroque periods. This system would not be for head banging, classic rock, or Hip-Hop. Critical parameters are the ability to recreate piano. double bass, sax, trumpet and a drum kit in a real space. Soundstage and imaging are important once instrumental timbres are maintained.

For those that respond with helpful speaker experience and ideas I'd like to thank you in advance. Not really seeking a technical explanation on various speaker topologies, as I get that already and is why I am seeking listener experience.

 

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RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on April 29, 2021 at 09:12:02
Ivan303
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Can't imagine 2.3 WPC being acceptable, over the long term, for anything short of horns.

I have 106dB horns and 2 wpc is my lower limit and I am currently running them on 4 wpc and going to 8 wpc which, granted, overkill.

If I were going with DECware's open baffle speakers I'd want 8 Watts per channel minimum.







 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on April 29, 2021 at 09:33:44
Grinnell
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I run my 4 watt Decware mini Torii with 92db eff Ref 3A de Capos, not concert loud but pretty decent in 12 x 20 room with openings on the sides

I also have a 2/6 watt (switchable triode/pentode) Grommes PHI-26 with 97db Klipsch Quartets in another system this can get very loud lol
both sound great both sound very differetn the klipsch horns sound more like a live concert where the de capos are detailed and clean.

Really want to try some single driver speakers like Omega or something like a Cornscala or 4Pi speaker

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on April 29, 2021 at 16:18:32
weedeewop
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Posts: 165
Location: Central Wisconsin
Joined: June 22, 2013
Ivan303:
That is why I'm asking as listening to their open baffle speaker was ok for midrange, and bass was MIA as expected. Steve Deckert applies a ZROCK equalizer to bring up the bass and smooth out the lower treble. I imagine the bas boost is on the order of 12 dB. If it is then I'd think it would tax a flea weight amp. The coefiguraton sounded ok if not pushed t0o hard. For my listening levels it is a maybe. The little flea watt amp he has sounds pretty great to these ears, which is why I am on the hunt for something.
Any specific horns I should consider, and I agree 100 dB MOL. I thinking Altec Valencias as a possibility. There is a pair of Barcelonas available near me. but I'm not familiar with them.
Thanks for the input.

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on April 29, 2021 at 16:25:57
weedeewop
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Posts: 165
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I like the idea of single driver speaker if, and this is a big if, I don't sacrifice too much. I may be asking too much of an open baffle design.

The DeCapos may be a good match for my style of listening. Thanks for the suggestion.

One speaker I heard with the Decware amp was the Lii Silver 10 Reference. It is very vivid and efficient, a little weak on bass as it seems to roll off pretty quickly at 52 dB MOL, and is shelved up in the presence region.

I have attached a link to it.

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on April 30, 2021 at 00:20:35
Todd Krieger
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My friend in Mesa has both the stereo and monoblock Decware EL84 amplifiers, driving 100 dB efficient Eminence 2-way coaxial speakers to glorious effect..... I do think he has V-Cap TFTF cap upgrades in his amps, and using 80 rectifiers (with adapter)..... These are some of the best low-power amps I've ever heard.

 

Two years now, been in hog heaven with 2 watt Korneff 45 and Omega SAM's., posted on April 30, 2021 at 04:46:36
The Killer Piglet
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I do listen fairly close, maybe 6-7 feet from driver.

No issue with volume, the room doesn't lend itself to a lot of volume to begin with.

I did add a sub a couple of months ago, which of course helped, but that was just icing for me. I could easily live w/o the sub.

Mainly it is that 'magic something' that this simple 45/single driver setup has that has me totally addicted.

KP

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on April 30, 2021 at 08:01:57
Grinnell
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The Lil Silver has caught my eye too

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on April 30, 2021 at 08:29:42
weedeewop
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I auditioned them recently at the Decware facility and left impressed. Steve was running an 80 rectifier tube. He is currently specing a Miflex copper foil cap. Not familiar with Eminence coaxial speakers, would this be in kit form or diy?

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on April 30, 2021 at 08:33:00
weedeewop
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Do you know of anyone with some experience with it? I liked what I heard except for forwardness in the presence region. It did mate rather well with the amp.

 

RE: Two years now, been in hog heaven with 2 watt Korneff 45 and Omega SAM's., posted on April 30, 2021 at 08:44:18
weedeewop
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Thanks for the response and Omega SAM suggestion. Regarding Omega I was thinking possibly these,
Omega Super Alnico High Output XRS

I have had several recommendations for the Zu Soul Supreme, but have a concern based on a note in the Stereophile review where John Atkinson noted a clanky sound quality for piano. As I dig piano that would be a no go.

 

RE: Two years now, been in hog heaven with 2 watt Korneff 45 and Omega SAM's., posted on April 30, 2021 at 12:31:34
The Killer Piglet
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Looks like the Zu's have a crossover, which is evil incarnate for low power stuff.

The HO Omegas have 2 drivers and drop to 6 ohms, maybe less.
Also potential power vampires for fleas.

There's also something to be said for the coherency of a single driver.


KP

 

RE: Two years now, been in hog heaven with 2 watt Korneff 45 and Omega SAM's., posted on May 1, 2021 at 07:00:28
weedeewop
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Posts: 165
Location: Central Wisconsin
Joined: June 22, 2013
The level of detail with coherence over the covered frequency range is what has drawn me to this amplifier in the first place. Those parameters as you say make a strong case for a single driver solution. Hoping to cover both with a less colored sound. Appreciate those of you sharing your experience. I must say 2.3 wpc is extremely limiting i speaker selection.

 

RE: Two years now, been in hog heaven with 2 watt Korneff 45 and Omega SAM's., posted on May 1, 2021 at 07:11:36
weedeewop
Audiophile

Posts: 165
Location: Central Wisconsin
Joined: June 22, 2013
The level of detail with coherence over the covered frequency range is what has drawn me to this amplifier in the first place. Those parameters as you say make a strong case for a single driver solution. Hoping to cover both with a less colored sound. Appreciate those of you sharing your experience. I must say 2.3 wpc is extremely limiting in speaker selection.

 

Take the plunge into the deep end... water is wonderful here., posted on May 1, 2021 at 07:22:23
The Killer Piglet
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My other gear sounds like Kansas vs Oz.

KP

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on May 1, 2021 at 11:47:36
Todd Krieger
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"Not familiar with Eminence coaxial speakers, would this be in kit form or diy?"

DIY..... The parts are hard to come by..... 15 inch Eminence woofers with a rectangular horn center coaxial compression tweeter..... (The 12 inch version of this woofer is a lot more readily available.) The system in Mesa, neither the owner nor I even know what the tweeter is.... Aside from it sounding awesome..... (These were Don Allen's personal speakers, he sold them to my friend prior to moving to Florida. Don passed away about a year and a half after that.)

I have a similar setup, 15 inch Eminence coaxial using Seismic 16 ohm compression tweeters..... It's about 90 to 95 percent of the sonic presentation of the Mesa system.

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on May 1, 2021 at 15:07:07
JimBop
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Can you provide some more details about these drivers? Model number?

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on May 3, 2021 at 02:11:38
Todd Krieger
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I don't know the model number, but they look like this (Top image is my "100dB Club" system..... Second pic is guy in Europe selling the drivers, but I think the ad is expired..... )







 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on May 3, 2021 at 02:27:57
Todd Krieger
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Here is a video of my friend's system..... (These were once Don Allen's speakers.) He was using the Decware EL84 amplifier...... (He rotates about 10 different amplifiers in this system.)

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on May 6, 2021 at 23:06:54
Todd Krieger
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"(These were once Don Allen's speakers.)"

This was Don Allen's listening room, with his system speakers..... Note the front grilles were present, unlike in the video. (Don liked the grilles on, the subsequent owner likes the grilles off.)




 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on May 6, 2021 at 23:11:09
Todd Krieger
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Another picture of Don Allen's listening room......





 

which Eminence driver?, posted on May 8, 2021 at 16:26:43
Chuck
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Todd, I've been intrigued by those speakers ever since Don described them to me 15 years ago, but I never pursued it. I will have some time on my hands in the coming months and have been thinking of making some hi-eff speakers. These may be the right ones to try. Could you please say which Eminence driver you are using? And what did Don do to the crossover? Thank you.

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on May 9, 2021 at 11:04:46
ancient tones
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A little late here. I could have saved a bunch of money if I had kept my Decware SE84 amp and Hornshoppe horns some 14 years ago and not gone on to try everything else.

I liked Klipsch Belles, but they take up a lot of room. Hornshoppes need corners. The single driver Decware HDT were good, not as fast as the Hornshoppe. I was charmed by the Omega alnicos at the time but thought I needed higher efficiency. Anyway, I had to sell most everything....

And now, armed with my acquired experience, bought a 2A3 amp and have Omega Compact Alnico Monitors on order. Like you, I like acoustic and ambient, and don't need a super loud system.

Funny how times have changed for Decware. Years ago on this and other forums people who had never heard a Decware amp would be chiming in about how they could not be any good because they aren't a "real" triode. All the best with your new amp and speakers.

 

RE: which Eminence driver?, posted on May 10, 2021 at 22:15:50
Todd Krieger
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This was why I was showing all the pictures..... I don't know the actual model number of the Eminence driver..... (None of the drivers currently being marketed have the center rectangular horn.)

The best advice I can give is look up "Eminence 15" on HiFiShark.com, and hope the coaxial driver with the rectangular horn appears in the search. Or contact Eminence directly and inquire about the drivers.....

 

Ah, OK. Thank you--very helpful! (nt), posted on May 11, 2021 at 07:09:28
Chuck
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RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on May 14, 2021 at 13:37:36
Todd A.
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I tried the low-power approach with a pair of 2A3 monos on my Odeons, which are 96-98 dB efficient, depending on who you talk to. It sounded good, as far as it went, but I eventually tired of the lack of authority in the lower registers. Replacing the monos with a KR Audio Antares at 12-13 wpch was FAR more satisfying, and I don't listen to head banger music at high volume levels. The Omega website says 94.5 dB efficient for the SAM speakers, and that they can be driven with "as little as 2 watts". My 2A3 monos were about 3.5 wpch into a higher efficiency, and I found the combination to be unsatisfying, for what that's worth. As always, YMMV.

Where are you in central WI? I'm in far north central WI, maybe 25 miles from Minocqua.

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on May 14, 2021 at 17:11:05
tube wrangler
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Check out Great Plains Audio transducers.

Do further research on good baffles for these units.

Take a hard look at your listening room. What kinds
of baffles are appropriate for that room?

Consider the room a small movie theatre. Would you
like to be anywhere in the room and find the music
still in focus, and still in correct time-alignment,
and still in correct left-to-right and floor-to-
ceiling ambiences?

Do your homework first, then talk with people who
are successfully using these transducers.

Are even better transducers available? Sure, a little
teensy bit-- at perhaps 10 times the price! You can
get the best overall performance using GPA goodies
just fine..

-Dennis-

 

Correction!!!!, posted on May 27, 2021 at 02:01:16
Todd Krieger
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My friend told me the power tubes in the Decware are not EL84s, but Russian SV83s..... Told me although they look like an EL84s, they're far superior tubes.

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on May 29, 2021 at 01:21:27
pictureguy
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I'll be watching this thread and reading thru it.....

I'm considering the Torri MKIV and Klipsch speakers........

This would be a 180 from Maggies and higher powered SS......
Too much is never enough

 

Couple of years ago I was same zig or zag junction..., posted on May 29, 2021 at 16:34:07
The Killer Piglet
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Maggies with my current Rogue 180's or SS amp were on the radar, but I wanted to really think long and hard about this.

As I looked at larger amps, I became curious about simpler amplification.
Inevitable this let down the SET path.

Ended up with single driver Omega + Korneff 45....

There was audio life before SET, and audio life after.
BSET? ADHT? There must be some calendar scale for this stuff.

KP



 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on May 30, 2021 at 15:02:43
Todd A.
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FWIW, I made that same transition from stats on a high-powered amp to a 12 wpch SET driving horns. In my case it was a good move, but it took quite a while to really get it right. When you say Klipsch, are you talking about the corner horns or a different model?

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on May 30, 2021 at 16:45:19
pictureguy
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Something from the Klipsch Heritage line......I think 5 or maybe 6 models. People tend to 'leap' at the cornerhorn, but few can afford them PLUS the space needed.

Certainly no room in my house for La Scala or Corner Horns....or deep enough pockets, either!

Forte IV will fit and be barely attainable....

For an amp? DecWare Torii MKIV at 25x2 with some useful features included.....I will NOT go nuts with the variety of output tubes available from EL34 to some from the KT series.....and I presusme others, as well.....

STILL need to migrate up to the dealer to listen to thses. MIght be awful and I stay where I am? Or so seductive I leave the wife as collateral......In between?

I DO know that with speakers of such high sensitivity, that amp noise becomes or COULD become an issue. Decware runs very conservatively and are said to be extremely quiet in operation......
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on May 30, 2021 at 18:09:36
Todd A.
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FWIW, I have never heard the Decware Torii, but it was on my short list for consideration when I had decided to go the SET route. My experience with Klipsch was not good, however. I had a pair of Choruses with the Bob Crites crossovers and I couldn't get rid of them fast enough. I sold them cheap just to see them go away. As always, YMMV, but I suspect there may be far better high-efficiency offerings within your budget and size limitations.

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on May 31, 2021 at 00:12:00
pictureguy
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Ever think the aftermarket crossover was the problem? Crites is a crossover 'factory' and sells a lot of sizzle and who knows how much bacon?

Me? I have yet ot migrate up north for a listen to the Klipsch. I may HATE them, in which case I forget my whole idea for now...and 'back to the drawing board' for some further research.
I would still like to pursue the idea of a high sensitivity speaker.

I'ce owned panels since the early 80s....Going on 40 years using all my fingers and toes, twice!
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on May 31, 2021 at 05:49:26
sony6060
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With the low power you best own 95dB sensitive speakers. If lower sensitivity, SE 300B tube amplifier is your best bet.

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on May 31, 2021 at 06:23:05
Todd A.
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It's possible, but I kind of doubt it since I installed the crossovers myself. IIRC, I quickly tired of the sound of the Choruses and thought that a crossover upgrade might fix the problem.

I've had a pair of MMGS and four sets of stats so I'm very well acquainted with the sound of panels. I like the holographic soundstage, but as you've noted they like power. Even the VACs on the CLS IIZs were just barely enough at 100 wpch in ultralinear mode. Others besides myself and (potentially) you have made the transition from planars to horns, so it seems to be a fairly common path. If you're able to find the right speakers I'd be amazed if you were unhappy, although they may or may not be Klipsch.

That Torii amp really intrigued me. I was nearly ready to drive to the Decware factory to check it out, but then I ran across the Antares and the rest is history.

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on May 31, 2021 at 20:40:01
pictureguy
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Decwars site has an 'amp selection' sort-of guide.

Basically power V sensitivity V expected loudness......

If they did the chart the SAME all the way thru? Should at least be relateable to wherever YOU happen to be on 'the spectrum'....

Part of it hinges on being able to 'clock' the sensitivity of the speaker in question to 'real'.
Klipsch, according to Stereiphile is a little optimistic, so using the Decware chart, I'll substract 3db to 4db from whatever Klipsch lists.....
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on May 31, 2021 at 20:45:38
pictureguy
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God, if I wanted to spend the next couple years experiment and spending $$$$ this would be the way to go.
I'm simply not that kind of engineer.
10x the price? for marginal improvement? I'd have to build speakers big enough to LIVE in 'em....cause that's what it'd come to!

But I'll bet they DO sound wonderful....
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on July 19, 2021 at 04:16:24
Steve.
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I was interested in these as a pair for mono use, or the 25th but never heard back from them after calling and emailing .....

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on July 21, 2021 at 14:38:52
pictureguy
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I was looking at the 20x2 'integrated' (sort of) for high sensitivity KLIPSCH.
ONE problem is the ouputs must be replaced as a quad. One single bias adjustment.....
The TORII MKIV is about 3600 and at 25x2 is well regarded.

I got answers fairly quickly and even spoke with 'the boss' on the phone.....
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on July 21, 2021 at 19:56:14
Steve.
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Yeah, I guess they are really busy. I read somewhere someone was #370 on a wait list of 500. I ended up stretching my budget and am having a 300b built... looks like great stuff, Steve Guttenberg and Andrew Robinson both raved about the Decware and at the end of the dayI don't think two watts would be enough

 

RE: Decware SE84UFO25, posted on July 21, 2021 at 23:29:45
pictureguy
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You have to go look at what they offer. Several very low powered amps suitable only for hte most sensitive speakers. But a few of higher power which should be ideal for some of the KLIPSCH models in the Heritige line. 2x20 or 2x25 should be fine....
Too much is never enough

 

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