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Thoughts on current 300B's?

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Posted on June 29, 2020 at 08:46:19
Gordon Rankin
Manufacturer

Posts: 2873
Joined: June 9, 2000
All,

So in talking to WE last week the factory of course closed for the virus and they are restarting again.

Been pretty dissatisfied with the PSvane and Full Music 300B's. Don't really care for the ELrog or what I would call the hybrid 300B based on Alesa Vaic designs (i.e. KR, Emissions Labs).

The JJ are good for general usage stuff and they last and sound pretty good. But I am looking for something a bit better. I have a bunch of silver output transformers and some free time so looking for something really good.

Thinking of taking a chance on the Takatsuki as the next best idea. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin

 

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RE: Thoughts on current 300B's?, posted on June 29, 2020 at 09:46:43
calloway
Audiophile

Posts: 694
Joined: February 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
August 31, 2000
Having tried the Elrog 300B..the Sophia 'Royal Princess', the Psvane WE 300B and the Psvane ACME 300Bs I think..in my system, that the Psvane ACME are the best. A friend of mine tried all also and just ordered a pair of the Psvane ACME 300Bs..

 

Take your time building the amps and wait for Charlie's 'new' WE300B?, posted on June 29, 2020 at 14:45:41
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 40968
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
You're a young guy, Gordon.

Me? I don't have the time to wait that long, but maybe you do. :-)





 

RE: Thoughts on current 300B's?, posted on June 29, 2020 at 21:55:15
OldNuke
Audiophile

Posts: 136
Location: Silicon Valley
Joined: November 18, 2014
Contributor
  Since:
February 27, 2015
Well,
My limited experience is with the more reasonable priced 300B's :). I have tried Psvane's and Full Music's, EH's, EH Gold, JJ's and Genalex Gold Lions. Out of them all the Genalex sounded best in my system but I must've gotten a bad lot because they would die off on me. Currently I'm satisfied with some JJ's in a Preamp and EH Gold's in my power amp. See no reason to change for what I think would be a minimal improvement if any.
Let us know how your journey ends.
What silver outputs are you thinking of using?
Alonzo

 

+1 Genalex Gold Lion..., posted on June 30, 2020 at 06:19:45
Vinyl Valet
Dealer

Posts: 1148
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Joined: November 13, 2003
I've had no reliability issues so far.

 

AN(UK) 4300E , posted on July 2, 2020 at 08:07:15
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15678
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
I have heard it in an all Audio Note system. It's a tube worth listening to.

 

RE: AN(UK) 4300E , posted on July 2, 2020 at 09:51:20
calloway
Audiophile

Posts: 694
Joined: February 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
August 31, 2000
yea..thought about getting a pair and trying them..

 

RE: Thoughts on current 300B's?, posted on July 2, 2020 at 13:08:28
Gerry E.
Audiophile

Posts: 2130
Location: Saratoga Springs, NY
Joined: February 19, 2000
Hi Gordon:

Definitely give the Takatsuki TA-300Bs a try! I wasted over a year listening to the JJ 300Bs while waiting for the WE 300Bs to come out. I got tired of waiting for the Westerns and purchased the Takatsuki. If the JJ vs. Takatsuki were a boxing match, it would be over in the first round. Of course, given the price differential, that's the way it should be.

When I finally did get that first (and only?) 2020 consumer pair of WE 300Bs, after a bit of break in, they were the equal of the Takatsuki. However, I couldn't justify keeping both, so I sold the Westerns because they have more value on the used market.

As for the Audio Note 4300E, while they may sound good, unlike the other two 300Bs, we don't know if they pass the reliability/longevity test.

Gerry

 

Who makes that tube?, posted on July 7, 2020 at 10:58:59
Jay Buridan
Audiophile

Posts: 7489
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
Contributor
  Since:
February 27, 2012
It's gotta be a rebranded something or other.






"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

RE: Who makes that tube?, posted on July 7, 2020 at 11:15:11
dth31
Audiophile

Posts: 296
Location: San Diego
Joined: September 3, 2002
Made by PSvane. https://www.dagogo.com/audio-note-uk-4300e-output-tube/

 

PSVANE here is, posted on July 7, 2020 at 18:56:40
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 12310
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
Peter Qvortrup describing the work with PSVANE - 31:30

 

RE: Who makes that tube?, posted on July 8, 2020 at 05:32:19
dave slagle
Manufacturer

Posts: 5160
Location: NYC
Joined: April 27, 2001



The first picture in that article immediately actually struck my interest since the top mica support does not come in contact with the envelope. further down in the article there is a seemingly identical picture of a different tube where the top mica is in direct contact with the glass.





speculation below.... would love to see citations for or against the concept.

When early tube manufacture moved away from globe to ST shaped tubes the top mica showed up in place of a glass arbor (talking globe 50 here) This mica also was a "press fit" into the inside of the top of the tube to assure everything was visually straight. Now globe and ST 50's sound very different and the big thing you notice is when you tap the tube, the ST sounds like hitting a trash can and the globe has an almost gong like sound. When the new production globe tubes came out over a decade+ ago, the top support mica remained and tethered the top of the plate structure to the envelope. I didn't notice a major difference between globe and ST tubes of the same manufacturer. There were small differences but nothing like that of a globe vs. a ST 50. This is what made me start thinking it was not the shape of the envelope but the mechanical resonant behavior that caused the difference in sound between globe and ST tubes.

Back to the AN tube. The first picture has a screened logo and may have been a first prototype and could have used a ST mica. The second picture has what appears to be an engraved badge with serial # inside the tube and it will be interesting to see which way the final production went wrt top mica.

dave

 

RE: Who makes that tube?, posted on July 8, 2020 at 15:23:32
dth31
Audiophile

Posts: 296
Location: San Diego
Joined: September 3, 2002

Used pair for sale now on eBay, with picture.

 

RE: Who makes that tube?, posted on July 8, 2020 at 15:28:03
JayD
Audiophile

Posts: 309
Joined: June 21, 2000
The tubes pictured in the Audio Note shop and Parts Connection don't look like that. They look like the one that Dave Slagle put up in his message.

 

RE: Who makes that tube?, posted on July 8, 2020 at 16:56:54
dave slagle
Manufacturer

Posts: 5160
Location: NYC
Joined: April 27, 2001






Interesting... the ebay ones show the tube to have an round top mica support with another "Trimmed on the side" round support above it extending beyond to the tube glass. This looks identical to the one in the dagogo picture of the tube with the serial number inside the glass. The top picture in the Dagogo article with the screen printed label is rotated 90

 

I have a very early version of the 2.5V TJ Mesh Plate (perferations, not real mesh)..., posted on July 9, 2020 at 04:53:31
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 40968
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
made in China, of course, in which the top mica does not touch the glass to secure the inards of the tube.

Good sounding tubes but microphonic as all get out.

Later, Full Music/TJ claims to have fixed this with a larger mica that held the workings in place and claimed less microphonics than the first version.

Who knows?





 

RE: I have a very early version of the 2.5V TJ Mesh Plate (perferations, not real mesh)..., posted on July 10, 2020 at 17:33:22
dave slagle
Manufacturer

Posts: 5160
Location: NYC
Joined: April 27, 2001
I find it hard to believe that firmly fixing the structure to the top of the envelope as well as the bottom helps isolate it from outside vibration. If anything, I would expect it to push the resonant frequency of the vibrating bits up which i would expect to be much more objectionable.

My gut feel is that the top support showed up in conjunction with the ST tube to make assembly easy and repeatable... nobody wants a tube with a plate leaning to one side or the other... all of the electrons will most certainly fall out.

dave

 

RE: "all of the electrons will most certainly fall out.", posted on July 11, 2020 at 08:46:03
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 40968
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
My thoughts exactly!

Whatever they did, and maybe they did other things as well, they claim to have fixed the microphonics in later TJ/Full Music globe tubes. I never tried them so I have to take their word for it.

Have a pair of early KR 300B (ST with very thin glass) that are also mircrophonic. Later KR had thicker glass and were supposed to be less microphonic.

Who knows. Best 300B I've had in my system is the Charlie's Kansas made WE300B which I've had for about 15 years? No getter left but they still play.

Doubt I'll live to see another WE300B from Charlie. :-(





 

RE: I have a very early version of the 2.5V TJ Mesh Plate (perferations, not real mesh)..., posted on July 13, 2020 at 04:39:22
PakProtector
Audiophile

Posts: 11739
Joined: May 14, 2002
Well, the ST build fixes the top to the glass with some mica. The design of this mica varied a fair bit, usually little nubs, the Tung-Sol mouse ears, and the 5881/6098-style additional pads...

The folks I talked to all said this was assembly for assembly alignment. As with all the internal features that often seem taken as hallmarks of THe Right Tube, I do have my doubts as to their intentional addition for anything else other than improving and shortening the ramp up to full specification production when it came time to execute a type run.

There have been plenty of leaner tubes through my hands, though this has mostly been base to glass. Sift a big pile of 6SN7's and see...:)
cheers,
Douglas

Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.

 

Waiting for Godot, posted on July 14, 2020 at 13:17:14
Chip647
Audiophile

Posts: 2306
Location: The South
Joined: December 24, 2012
Website is " 1997-2016 Western Electric Export Corporation."
Me thinks it is truly all done.

However, if you Venmo me a downpayment today of only $600 I can guarantee delivery of a perfect pair of WE300b tubes within the next 6 months. Venmo to RogerStone@gmail.com

 

RE: Thoughts How much does Plate Structure effect sound on current 300B's?, posted on July 16, 2020 at 15:49:43
drummerwill
Audiophile

Posts: 914
Location: St Louis Mo.
Joined: January 7, 2003
Flat plates, formed (bent), coatings, not to mention Mesh or
perforated, all can effect the sound.

Having never heard a true WE 300B. How do you Gauge the quantity of
value each 300B tube brings ?

I have listen to Sovteks, Valve Arts ( Nickle plates) and TJ early
mesh (perfs). Certainly not your top tier 300Bs.

But I have heard the difference in sound between a Slyvania VT-52 and a WE VT-52 , it's not subtle .

just Curious
Willie

 

RE: Thoughts How much does Plate Structure effect sound on current 300B's?, posted on July 27, 2020 at 11:18:32
Gordon Rankin
Manufacturer

Posts: 2873
Joined: June 9, 2000
Willie,

Each company working with 300B's is a bit different. It's not just the plate but also the filament and Grid.

A couple years back Electro Harmonix was having some issues with their 300B. I worked with their engineers over there and they made some changes that made the tube better.

The main reason the different in the VT52 Sylvania and Hytron/WE tube is the filament supply. The Sylvania are 6.3V filament and the Hytron/WE are 7v. It makes a big difference as you can starve the Hyrton/WE if your design uses 6.3V as the reference.

Thanks,
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin

 

Thanks for the great reply ....nt ., posted on July 27, 2020 at 12:20:56
drummerwill
Audiophile

Posts: 914
Location: St Louis Mo.
Joined: January 7, 2003

 

RE: Thoughts on current 300B's?, posted on August 2, 2020 at 04:54:31
slemin@bigpond.com
Audiophile

Posts: 1
Location: Qld
Joined: March 11, 2014
I have the Takatsuki along with a bunch of various 300b pairs . The Takatsuki is the closest to old school WE available in my system. Lots of other variations that people rave about but they are the closest I've found to the original.

 

RE: Thoughts on current 300B's?, posted on August 5, 2020 at 11:03:16
kobasa@xs4all.nl
Audiophile

Posts: 122
Joined: August 21, 2018
Is there any new tube that has a really modern getter system? I am talking about a vacuum better then in space. Cern has proven that it is not a problem nowadays so why tube today have an old getter system?

 

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