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Shielding Choice in SET Power Supplies

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Posted on November 29, 2016 at 18:57:32
tweakydee
Audiophile

Posts: 400
Location: Gainesville Virginia
Joined: February 27, 2004
For discussion's sake in say a 2A3 or 45 SET amp, tube rectified with choke input, given a choice between a power transformer having an electrostatic shield or the first cap in the power supply being a kelvin connected cap, what would your choice be? Would having a kelvin cap as the first cap be just as effective as the electrostatic shield in the power transformer?

 

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RE: Shielding Choice in SET Power Supplies, posted on November 29, 2016 at 20:23:06
Paul Joppa
Industry Professional

Posts: 6677
Location: Seattle, WA
Joined: April 23, 2001
For a car analogy, you are asking whether all-weather tires are better than Corinthian leather seats. There can be no answer without more details.

OK, that was harsh - if you were distressed, I apologize in advance.

What I mean is, you have offered two solutions without identifying the problem. Presumably the problem is undesired noises, but they can have very many different sources, of very different magnitudes, and are highly variable between locations and systems. Having spent a career in noise control, I am excruciatingly aware that the noise you hear is the worst of many, and eliminating it reveals the next-worse one, which may or may not be nearly as bad.

A technical/scientific analysis would need tons of details and a LOT of effort. As DIYers, this is often quite impractical. The other answer is to try various potential solutions and see what changes they make. If you do your own experimenting, at least you know the conclusions are valid for your setup.

The things that work for one situation may not work in another, but if we all post what we've found to work, and as much detail as possible about the situation in which they worked, we can all save some time. That, IMHO, is the beauty of internet forums like this one.

 

RE: Shielding Choice in SET Power Supplies, posted on November 29, 2016 at 22:13:43
megasat16
Audiophile

Posts: 196
Location: SoCal
Joined: April 15, 2015
If I were making and designing a SET amp, I would throw everything in my arsenal to make it the quietest possible when connected to over 100dB or higher sensitivity speakers.

Speaking for myself, using transformers with shield or better yet (potted) types and multi-stage best quality 2 or 4 pole caps is an objective and a matter of must and not a choice between one or the other.

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.Thou shall not stand where I type for I carry a bottle of Certified Audiophile Air and a Pure Silver Whip.

 

I have seen a better answer to that question...just can't remember when..., posted on November 30, 2016 at 01:11:46
Cleantimestream
Audiophile

Posts: 6580
Location: Kentucky
Joined: June 30, 2005
_!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.

 

RE: Shielding Choice in SET Power Supplies, posted on November 30, 2016 at 12:10:06
tweakydee
Audiophile

Posts: 400
Location: Gainesville Virginia
Joined: February 27, 2004
Not harsh at all, I was just pondering the cost difference in power transformers with and without electrostatic shields, and wondering if using a kelvin cap which is cheaper would effectively accomplish the same thing. Of course I can see the most effective might be using both - but then I also wonder if a kelvin cap would not be much use if using a transformer with a screen.

 

RE: Shielding Choice in SET Power Supplies, posted on November 30, 2016 at 12:11:33
tweakydee
Audiophile

Posts: 400
Location: Gainesville Virginia
Joined: February 27, 2004
Thanks, if anyone has upgrade experience to relate I hope they can chime in.

 

RE: Shielding Choice in SET Power Supplies, posted on November 30, 2016 at 14:36:36
SteveBrown
Audiophile

Posts: 2270
Location: Portland, OR
Joined: November 14, 2002
If noise is the problem, I've found what I think is a good starting point and that is to study well thought out real-world examples. (Hint, look at some bottlehead layouts). There's a lot of good examples on the web, JE Labs is another good one, though not sure it's still up and running. Personally, if I'm building a preamp I always opt for a custom wound transformer with electrostatic shield. One reason for custom is the typical 6.3v heater winding is often not enough to rectify and then get through a regulator without too much dropout. At least that's my experience. So I usually opt for 7.5v or 8v heaters and an amp or more over what I need. This is for a preamp, however, and on a power amp there are other questions about heater stuff. Best of luck!

 

RE: Shielding Choice in SET Power Supplies, posted on December 3, 2016 at 07:13:47
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9706
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
Your amplifier design priority is incorrect. If you design for lowest noise, lowest ripple, the amp will NEVER play dynamically and it will be " dead as a door nail", compared to what others do now !!

Lowest possible ripple is NEVER a great sounding amp. It is EASILY bettered by newer designed amps with modern power supplies ( L.S.E.S. which stands for a low stored energy supply, or maybe a Flywheel ). These power supply types have " fast " power delivery, and they are able to provide precisely what is needed to the DHT Finals, on demand, to produce proper dynamics.

We are both discussing high efficiency speakers, I use 515Bs and 802Ds, horn-loaded.

Your name is new here on this Forum. If you reach me at my email address, drlowmu@gmail.com, I can send you ( or anyone else who may be interested ) back attachments - a chronological compilation of power supply posts, that will get you up-to-speed easily.

Welcome and have FUN up here !!

Jeff Medwin

 

RE: Shielding Choice in SET Power Supplies, posted on December 7, 2016 at 03:10:16
mah
Audiophile

Posts: 48
Joined: May 26, 2008
Shield - best value spend - unless you buy into PS noise makes for a better amp.

 

RE: Shielding Choice in SET Power Supplies, posted on December 8, 2016 at 17:59:32
banpuku
Audiophile

Posts: 927
Joined: January 19, 2006
What are the benefits of the kelvin caps? And how are these wired? I see that claritycap has kelvin caps, but I could not figure out how to wire them.

 

Kelvin Caps, posted on December 9, 2016 at 10:23:20
tweakydee
Audiophile

Posts: 400
Location: Gainesville Virginia
Joined: February 27, 2004
The Kelvin caps provide additional noise filtering, especially high frequency noise. Check out these links for details and wring diagrams.
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/claritycap_tc_4terminal.html
http://www.partsconnexion.com/prod_pdf/tc-ext-info.pdf
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/sites/default/files/claritycap_tc_50uf_600v_wiring_800.jpg
http://www.claritycap.co.uk/products/tc.php

 

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