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Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier

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Posted on January 26, 2010 at 15:28:34
Jax
Audiophile

Posts: 10
Location: Europe
Joined: January 26, 2010
Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier

First of all I would like to give you the rationale for writing this review. I’m no dealer, just a happy enthusiast like most of you. Thus, I have no ties whatsoever to New Audio Frontiers or their associates. The reason for typing down these words is because there was unfortunately so little information available regarding New Audio Frontiers, something I experienced when looking for information prior to purchasing the NAF 845. For those of you who are interested in the NAF 845 this review may hopefully serve as some kind of guidance. Since I’m not a professional reviewer I don’t have loads of amps lying around waiting for comparison so I have to put a little trust in my ears and memory (but I’m quite experienced in the highend audio domain). Before continuing, please bear in mind that this a user review where my personal view is expressed and like you all know our experiences and preferences may differ. Happy reading!

INTRODUCTION
New Audio Frontiers is an Italian tube amplifier and loudspeaker manufacturer. According to the NAF homepage (newaudiofrontiers.com) the company was established by a group of enthusiasts. New Audio Frontiers is distributed by USA Tube Audio in US and Definitive Audio in UK but for dealers in other countries you probably need to contact NAF.

As the title states this review concerns the NAF 845SE Special Edition mk3 integrated amplifier (with a passive preamp stage). In addition my sample is the absolutely gorgeous Silver Version (silver face plates and black side panels) with remote control. The models and their naming are a bit confusing so let’s clear things up before moving on. There are two integrated 845 models available, the 845SE and 845SE Special Edition. The 845SE is a 20 watter and the 845SE Special Edition is a 25 watter. As far as I have understood it, only the latter (i.e., the SE Special Edition) has the silver-copper litz output transformer. So, the 845SE Special Edition is the top model. According to NAF the 845 was recently upgraded to mk3 status. The mk3 upgrades include new transformers and some component changes. The amps can be had in standard finish (wood panels and copper plates) or in the optional silver finish with black side panels (i.e., “Silver Version”). According to NAF the “silver version” option is just cosmetic. Hopefully, I didn’t get it wrong so please feel free to correct me because it is confusing. My amp came with a remote control (simple but functional).

AESTATICS
Aestatics is a tricky area since personal taste differ so much. My taste is quite “broad” and I can appreciate a well-executed design regardless if it is a tube or transistor amp. Personally I find the NAF 845 amp to be extraordinary Italian design and visually very seductive. No photos do this amp justice. Some may prefer the copper finish but I find the silver version more elegant and timeless. Again, it’s all about personal preferences. To me it is important that I find the amp attractive from a visual point of view. Of course sound is the most important aspect but the visual impression does play a role. I wouldn’t pay a great amount of money for an “ugly” painting I didn’t like no matter how famous the artist was. Remember you may have a family that has to look at this piece everyday, so yes I think aestatics matter.

SOUND
Now for the most important and hardest part: How does it sound? I will try to provide a balanced description. First, like noted elsewhere in this review taste differs a lot between individuals and as consequence you will not find the word “best” in this text. What does “best” mean in the context of music, I don’t know? Instead I will talk about satisfaction and other appropriate (and humble) terms. This amp takes pretty long time to burn in, so don’t make the final judgement based on the first weeks (even though its performance stellar from day 1). Some may find the burning in process a bit frustrating but I found it great fun and rewarding to hear how the amp evolved from being a superb to an amp that takes you for a sonic and emotional ride you weren’t prepared for.

I guess most of us appreciate transparent amps. But it comes at a price - you will hear which part of the chain that’s not up to the standards. Meaning new speakers, cables or source components. On the other hand when all things are well-matched music just flows and nothing can stop it. This happens all the time to me when I listen to my NAF845 based system, I press play and all of sudden several hours are just gone. Based on my own experience I would say that this amp is fairly easy to get to sing well with other parts.

This amp is highly transparent and revealing but not in that harsh way. Instead the band or orchestra comes alive and the instruments get the right tone and “bite”. When listening to the NAF845 two words comes to my mind again and again - dynamic and natural. In my system this holds for anything from big orchestras to jazz, from hard-hitting rock to electronic music. Subjectively the amp feels extended in the top but not as transparent in the top as an OTL like Atma-Sphere (…Oh those wonderful Atma-Spheres). On the other hand it had more body in the midrange. The bass was also very good and felt very well integrated with the rest of the frequency band. It wasn’t earthquake bass, instead it the bass sounded detailed and deep enough without being exaggerated. Contrabasses had tone not just boom (as so often with many amps). Some amps make every recording sound “big” and “beefy”. Although, impressive at first, I often find this to be artificial and insensitive to the recording in the long run. However, with the NAF845 I always have the impression that a recording sounds as “big” or “small” as it was recorded.

In summary, from top to bottom the amp felt very coherent and clean. Never thin, sterile or boring. If you pay this amount of money I think you should demand this high level of sound quality, with the result of emotional arousal in the listener. As soon as I turn off this amp I long for turning it on again and listen to more music!

LISTENING LEVELS
One of the things I miss in most reviews is a discussion regarding listening levels. It’s often huge difference to listen to low vs high listening levels (in terms of SPL). At higher levels amps can usually show how capable (or incapable) they are. However, I live in a family home and the stereo is located to the living room and most of my listening is done during evenings. Thus, I can’t listen to music at high levels. How often haven’t we read review statements like “I was able to make the amp clip… when playing above 110dB” but no reference to how the amp sounded below 60dB. Also, my ears are a bit sensitive from too many concerts so I prefer “soothing” and “normal” levels. This means that in my home an amp must perform at its “quality peak” already from lower levels. In my opinion this may be one of the hardest test for an amp. Indeed, the NAF845 was completely satisfying from low levels but it also had reserves for higher levels. Altogether, I think this amp was coherent in its sound across listening levels.

RELIABILITY
So far the 845SE Special Edition has functioned perfectly and I hope the amp will prove as reliable in twenty years as it has done to the present day.

PRICE/PERFORMANCE
With a retail price of 14000USD in US and 9800 Euro in Europe this is definatly an expensive amp. Is it possible to justify spending this amount of money on any hobby? Well only you can decide. In my view this is a far better purchase than a car or boat. But again taste and priority differs.

CONCLUSIONS
This amp is my kind of flavour. It has the beautiful qualities of a SET mixed with “plenty” of power (for a SET). I would like to sum up it’s sound with the following highly subjective and elusive words: detailed, powerful, sublime, sophisticated, lifelike, and beautiful (both soundwise and visually).

Don't run out and buy (or reject for that matter) this amp based on my or someone else’s opinion, please listen for your self and decide based on you own preferences and system.

I hope you enjoyed reading this review and found it useful. Although hifi is great fun, no matter what gear you own or aspire to own, never forget that we’re here for the love of music.

Cheers!

/Jax

 

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Technical information, posted on January 27, 2010 at 04:49:02
Frihed89
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Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen
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It would be nice to know the relationship between the preamp and power amp stages. There is not even any information in the company/dealer material about the 4 signal tubes and their functions.

And what on earth is all that "stuff" on the boards under the bonnet? SET amps are generally pretty simple. Compare the "boards" (not to mention chokes, transformers, power supplies).

I think the two amps are in the same price range, but different output power levels.

 

RE: Technical information, posted on January 29, 2010 at 23:32:30
GTCharlie
Audiophile

Posts: 983
Location: Philippines
Joined: December 9, 2004
that looks like an audio note amp ... not a new frontiers 845. I noticed the "trans 300/01" mark on the OPT. the left most board is likely the heater supply. and those three tubes in a row on the right would probably B+ regulation, and those two shiny thingies are likely chokes. one twin triode as voltage amp to serve both channels, and another twin triode, per channel, as driver. into what looks like either a 300B or a 2A3. I don't see any coupling cap, so probably directly coupled (unless the couplers are underneath the PCB). those resistors populating the boards are probably on the plate as load, and on the cathode to bias.

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on January 30, 2010 at 11:02:41
Lesage
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nt

 

RE: Technical information, posted on January 30, 2010 at 11:29:59
Lesage
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nt

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on January 30, 2010 at 14:51:27
Jax
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Posts: 10
Location: Europe
Joined: January 26, 2010
Many thanks Lesage for adding the pictures.

"On the other hand, AN's Ongaku, fitted with 211s and transformer coupled, may not be an appropriate reference, despite NAF's claim". Very interesting, would you like to elaborate a litte more on why this may not be an apropriate comparison (I have never heard an Ongaku).

"However this NAF 845SE is a very fine and powerful amp that have not gained in Europe the celebrity it deserves". I agree completely, the NAF845SE is an extraordinary amp that really deserves to be better known. I get the impression that NAF is better known in the US than in Europe. From what I've heard NAF, VIVA and Mastersound play in the same league when it comes to 845 based amps. However, I have not heard New Audio Frontiers' other amps. Has anyone heard the NAF 300B or 2A3?

Nice weekend to you all!

/Jax

 

RE: Technical information, posted on January 31, 2010 at 01:39:54
Lesage
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nt

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on January 31, 2010 at 02:05:19
Lesage
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nt

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on January 31, 2010 at 20:36:35
GTCharlie
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Posts: 983
Location: Philippines
Joined: December 9, 2004
"slight lack in dynamics" could be due to lack of drive? voltage swing and current ? A rough guestimate would be at least 200v swing, and maybe as high as 50mA to drive an 845, IMHO. An SRPP circuit is "optimized" for certain load, and the final's grid impedance varies.

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on February 1, 2010 at 00:57:46
Lesage
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nt

 

Hummm. Tanks. I couldn't find a thing. Nt, posted on February 1, 2010 at 01:31:59
Frihed89
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Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
NTT

 

I just added it to illustrate the difference in the circuit boards, posted on February 1, 2010 at 01:38:43
Frihed89
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That wasn't entirely fair because the Mieshu box is enormous (and very heavy). On the other hand, the Meishu has 2 power supplies, 3 power transformers in all, 2 large chokes, and this one has large double C-core OPTs. I think they cost about the same.

 

RE: I just added it to illustrate the difference in the circuit boards, posted on February 1, 2010 at 02:18:01
Lesage
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Joined: March 4, 2009
nt

 

Maybe I can't count !!!, posted on February 1, 2010 at 10:11:45
Frihed89
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I agree with you. I do like to compare

 

RE: Maybe I can't count !!!, posted on February 1, 2010 at 11:12:14
Jax
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Location: Europe
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I must admit that in the present case it's a little extra interesting to compare. Not only do NAF compare them selves with AN but their 845 amp seems to share some attributes with AN and Kondo. For example, the "visual" layout resemble that of an Ongaku. Regarding the transformers, AN uses 50% Nickel, 50% Silver alloy whereas NAF uses silvercoated copper litz. What about similarities in the circuits between the NAF845SE and Kondo/AN Ongaku? I can't comment on the AN Ongaku but in my opinion the NAF845 performes very well when it comes to dynamics.

All the best,

Jax

 

RE: I just added it to illustrate the difference in the circuit boards, posted on February 1, 2010 at 16:36:51
Donald North
Manufacturer

Posts: 1296
Joined: February 8, 2001
Your Meishu has 2 power transformers, 1 large filter choke, 2 small filter chokes, 3 tube rectifiers, 2 large double-C core output transformers, and is capacitor coupled between stages.

Donald North

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on February 1, 2010 at 16:39:26
Donald North
Manufacturer

Posts: 1296
Joined: February 8, 2001
The Ongaku is not monoblocks or parallel SE. It's a stereo integrated amplifier using 1pc 211 output tube per channel.

Donald North

 

RE: Maybe I can't count !!!, posted on February 1, 2010 at 16:42:09
Donald North
Manufacturer

Posts: 1296
Joined: February 8, 2001
No, the Audio Note UK Ongaku output transformers use 50% nickel double C cores and pure silver windings. I don't know what the AN-Japan/Kondo Ongaku output transformer cores are, but it also features pure silver windings.

Donald North

 

RE: Maybe I can't count !!!, posted on February 2, 2010 at 06:20:19
Lesage
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Posts: 56
Joined: March 4, 2009
nt

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on February 2, 2010 at 06:24:30
Lesage
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Posts: 56
Joined: March 4, 2009
nt

 

RE: Maybe I can't count !!!, posted on February 2, 2010 at 14:29:55
Jax
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Posts: 10
Location: Europe
Joined: January 26, 2010
Many thanks Donald for the correct info regarding the Ongaku transformers.

Lesage, I think you made a very good point. I remembered when I heard Coincident's 211 amps for the first time. They felt really "strong" and clean (in a good way). But bear in mind that Coincident's 211 monoblocks are push-pull amps outputing around 75W. I don't know whether these are "representative" for the "211 sound".

Although, the NAF845 is less accentuated in the bass, one of the things I appreciate with this amp is its sweet but still powerful sound (i.e., not laidback). At least for me this amp knocked all most all other amps I auditioned (but again taste differs).

It's great that there are different manufacturers so we can choose the sound like at a price we can afford.

All the best,

Jax

 

RE: Maybe I can't count !!!, posted on February 3, 2010 at 00:20:23
Lesage
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nt

 

I mistook one of the chokes for another power tranny, posted on February 3, 2010 at 10:05:07
Frihed89
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But that doesn't make sense, does it?

 

I don't think the NAF is fully transformer coupled,, posted on February 3, 2010 at 10:08:05
Frihed89
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Posts: 15703
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as is the On-Gaku (and Jinro).

 

RE: I don't think the NAF is fully transformer coupled,, posted on February 3, 2010 at 11:18:12
Jax
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Frihed89, this is interesting information. Would you like expand a bit on this and how you came to that conclusion.

Also, what are the advantages and disadvantages of using a a not fully transformer coupled circuit?

Looking forward to your post!

Cheers

Jax

 

845 drive ..., posted on February 7, 2010 at 19:10:17
Naz
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>>A rough guestimate would be at least 200v swing, and maybe as high as 50mA to drive an 845, IMHO<<

845s do indeed require a lot of low distortion voltage swing, which of course depends on the operating parameters. I need almost 400V P-P for my home brew PSEs but I drive into A2 for the (almost 50%) extra headroom. They actually don't require much current, unless of course they are driven into A2, and even then nothing like 50mA.

Cheers,
Naz

 

Is it? , posted on February 10, 2010 at 15:12:27
Frihed89
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I was looking for this information on their web page. I wasn't taking a position, as I have no idea which is best in theory or practice. I do know from experience that the AN fully transformer coupled models, like the P-4 Balanced monos and the Ongaku integrated, sound very beautiful---better than anything else I have heard, but I have not heard this amp.

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on February 19, 2010 at 07:52:27
baja
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Posts: 73
Location: west germany
Joined: January 2, 2007

jax,
thanks for your detailed description. I own a naf 845se as special edition - an item of the second generation. For sound/sonic I prefer the second generation, because the third has a somehow attenuated circuit for several reasons (presumably there were some problems with the rectifiers) - also tube rolling is an issue - I use 845b, tung-sol for 5687 and early rca for 12ax7. the naf was my former office amp and replaced my otl monos - when I shifted my modern audiophile rig to a dynamic vintage system. I compared the naf & otl monos several times.
best,

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on February 19, 2010 at 11:17:01
Jax
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Posts: 10
Location: Europe
Joined: January 26, 2010
Many thanks Baja for sharing your experiences of the NAF 845 amp! I can't comment about the sonic differences between the mk 2 and 3 since I haven't heard the mk 2. However, when I asked NAF about the differences it was their opinion they had improved the circuit (precisely how I don't know). So, I'm very interested in hearing your view regarding the sonic differeces between the mk 2 and 3. Have you had the chance of hearing both the mk 2 and 3? About the recifier, I thought this was the same between mk 2 and 3. Sofar my amp has functioned perfectly. Like you, I went from OTL to the NAF 845SE special edition (but I still appreciate OTLs very much).

Have a nice weekend!

Jax

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on February 20, 2010 at 02:15:58
baja
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Posts: 73
Location: west germany
Joined: January 2, 2007
jax,

as you know there are three different generations. the 1rst is really easy to identify, because it came with 4 and 8 ohm speaker plugs at the rear. and indeed all versions imply certain developments - but if it's always an upgrade, I don't know, because honestly those shifts from MK1 to MK-x also depend on quite different issues - as: some assembling parts a not available any more, a supplier has to be changed and/or an item has to be re-launched just to strengthen/re-new a broad attention ...
but if you ask the manufacturer of course it's always a step forward and an 'upgrade' in case of naf from Mk1 to Mk3 or MK2 or MK3 is not possible.

generally speaking the naf amps are really handmade and the parts are selected by audition. some parts come from (and are prepared at) mastersound in italy, the same apply as to ayon (former vaic) and unison. and indeed, this handmade layout of the amps provides, that all amps sound a little different. for instance my item was elected during an audtion of ten naf integrated amps.

the third version of the integrated differs in the pre section. the ht bypass the pre and go directly in the final section. this is for home theater equipment when you put the signal out from the pre. the direct input is the same of cd and the others. somehow the 3rd generation is "customer secured" that means the bias circuit changes for more stability at the oscillation of voltage (and I'm not sure if it is the best for the sound if the voltage in your home is stable).

in the end please don't be confused, because if your mk3 becomes a match in your rig, don't wonder about version 2 or a possible next generation 4. what you get is an unique piece of audio engineering - and without being pathetic it is able to grow with you and to shift with your temporarily mood - and it's easy to handle - this distinguishes the naf from my former pretty capricious otl monos. what I like is to listen to musik and not to audit the equipment.

best,

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on February 20, 2010 at 03:03:29
Jax
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Posts: 10
Location: Europe
Joined: January 26, 2010
Excellent post and information!

Does the following mean that I can connect a preamp to the integrated mk 3 version:

"the third version of the integrated differs in the pre section. the ht bypass the pre and go directly in the final section. this is for home theater equipment when you put the signal out from the pre. the direct input is the same of cd and the others."

Should I use the cd input or can I use whichever input? Which input would be the bypassed HT input and which are not by bypassed?

"what I like is to listen to musik and not to audit the equipment."
You are so very right! This exactly why I bought the NAF amp.
No wonder why this amp is so rare in the 2nd hand market.

Again, thanks Baja for the valuable feedback

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on February 20, 2010 at 03:57:31
baja
Audiophile

Posts: 73
Location: west germany
Joined: January 2, 2007



jax,
please look here - the second version doesn't have 'HT' at the source knob. HT would bypass the pre. the other sources are the same for MK2 and MK3.
but before doing something worse, please have a look in your manual or ask maurizio from naf ...
best,

ps. btw where are you located?

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on February 20, 2010 at 04:15:46
Jax
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Posts: 10
Location: Europe
Joined: January 26, 2010
Great! I'll contact Maurizio and also post an update on the NAF paired with a preamp.

Cheers!

Jax

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on February 22, 2010 at 14:05:34
Jax
Audiophile

Posts: 10
Location: Europe
Joined: January 26, 2010
It seems as if you cannot bypass the pre. Apparently the HT/PH input is for (external) phonostages.

"...presumably there were some problems with the rectifiers". Baja, do I understand you correct in that the issue with the rectifiers refers to the mk 1 and 2 versions and was fixed in the mk 3 version?

all the best,

Jax

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on November 2, 2010 at 01:25:07
perart1


 
Baja A quick question; what are the amplifiers on your equipment stand. Just curious given the NAF
Peter

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on November 3, 2010 at 09:51:30
baja
Audiophile

Posts: 73
Location: west germany
Joined: January 2, 2007
peter,
they were silvaweld - 1000-pre and otl-monos - they are sold ... (I would have kept them, if I had more space ...)
best,

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on February 13, 2011 at 14:55:52
albertVL
Audiophile

Posts: 2
Joined: February 13, 2011
Hi. I own a 2nd generation special edition. My tube rolling consisted in replacing the 5687 with Raytheon early type and ECC83 EI made in Yugoslavia. The latter - incredibly - sounded better either then Mullard Mc1 and xf1 code and various Philips long plates...
Is there anybody who experienced 845 NOS tube rolling on it?

Ciao. Albert

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on February 13, 2011 at 16:38:22
stereohifi
Audiophile

Posts: 128
Location: canada
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Very interesting JAX, but what are the speakers used???
SET are sensitive to the speaker loading.

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on February 18, 2011 at 08:49:51
baja
Audiophile

Posts: 73
Location: west germany
Joined: January 2, 2007
albert,
in regard to the 845 tubes please take into account that all 845 tubes are pretty different - also they are called '845'. before rolling you have to compare the data sheets. as I know, there is no possibility to try old 845 tubes - the naf has autobias. only 845c and b are an option - even the 845m will damage your amp. there were several nafs sold with KR 845 - but those were imporoved dirctly at naf to use the KR tubes ...
best

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on February 25, 2011 at 15:35:37
albertVL
Audiophile

Posts: 2
Joined: February 13, 2011
Hi baja. Yes, you are right. The M model I understand it has lower dissipation, then the grid current must be adjusted accordingly.
I wonder what kind of results other NAF owners have experienced by 'rolling' 845 NOS tube, Cetron, RCA and United.
Ciao

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on October 28, 2022 at 18:04:25
clouseau
Audiophile

Posts: 2
Location: Porto
Joined: July 24, 2017
One of the most important features of a brand, is when we need help from them, either by sending feedback, or in case of malfunction, a good support.
Enterprises only focused in sales and does not care with customers, have short life. Customers normaly has good memory... That is preciselly what happened to me. Sent two emails asking simple help regarding tubes replacement. Not a single answer from NAF. Don't want to hear again about New Audio Frontiers

 

RE: Review of New Audio Frontiers 845SE Special Edition Integrated amplifier, posted on October 29, 2022 at 19:46:33
clouseau
Audiophile

Posts: 2
Location: Porto
Joined: July 24, 2017
It would be unfair to NAF if i did not inform everybody they finally answered my prayers. I do not want to hurt anyone, so here I am to say they informed me of how to do a complete tube substitution and were polite too. Thank you very much to them and also to this serious forum.

 

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