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cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO

41.183.0.21
Posted on May 5, 2008 at 12:31:58
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
cPlay

The open source high-end audio player using ASIO

May 2008

cPlay delivers high quality audio playback using ASIO 2. Playback is achieved using any ASIO compatible soundcard. cPlay is a minimalist audio player using the latest high quality SRC resampler (Best Sinc SNR 145.68db or 121.33db) or SoX (VHQ or HQ). cPlay's design offers state-of-the-art ASIO-only playback and caters for touch screen users. Installation, setup and use is easy. cPlay is built in c/c++ and operates on Windows XP SP2 Professional (32 bit).

FEATURES

  1. Resampling is sourced from LibSampleRate (version 0.1.5) and SoX 14.2.0 under GNU GPL license. LibSampleRate is aka SRC (Secret Rabbit Code) and supersedes the version as used in foobar2000. Best Sinc converter now offers a SNR of 145.68db or 121.33db (versus 97db). SoX VHQ offers better than 170db SNR. Resampling is bypassed when input rate matches output.

  2. Supports Steinberg's excellent ASIO 2 and is backward compatible to prior ASIO versions (as required by ASIO drivers).

  3. Offers high quality 64 bit double precision digital volume control (in 0.5db steps). This can be bypassed.

  4. Playback is achieved through .cue, .wav or .flac files. cPlay loads entire .wav or .flac (decoded) into RAM before starting. Playback is done directly from cPlay's internal buffer. Cue playback requires .cue files as created by EAC (single or multi file standard).

  5. Ensures efficient CPU resource utilization allowing for low specification processors or high levels of upsampling. This means CPUs can be underclocked / undervolted.

  6. Supports up to 3 ASIO soundcards with each having up to 100 output channels.

  7. Advanced optimizations are applied (if available from ASIO driver) during playback.

  8. Best results achieved when using cMP (i.e. cMP²). This allows for low level Windows optimizations. Use cMP release 1.0 final or later as this allows for bypassing RAM load in cMP (set RAM Load in cMP Settings to No) otherwise wav file is RAM loaded twice. cPlay allows for both svchost and lsass to be suspended during playback thus reducing the Windows footprint. Only exception is EMU's ASIO driver which requires both (svchost and lsass) to be operational. Set cMP's Optimize setting to Critical.

  9. Full remote control is achieved with cMP: offering volume control, track navigation, next/previous and stop/eject via (wireless) mouse.

USER MANUAL

Visit cMP² website (http://www.cicsMemoryPlayer.com) for more details and setup.

Screen Shot




GETTING STARTED

Download cPlay's installer here (1.3MB). Installation and startup is straight forward.

If you don't have an ASIO compatible soundcard, use ASIO4ALL. Note that ASIO4ALL does not support channel mapping (use default) and rarely handles above 48k sample rate.

Your feedback will help guide cPlay's future development. Source code (4.1MB) is available via email.

 

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RE: cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO, posted on July 4, 2008 at 09:35:55
gagnem


 
Hi cics, I finally build : AOBCT+cMP+cPlay, with the G31/E7200 HW.
Even if some hardware and software tweaks still need to be done, the results are stunning.

I just have a few questions.

1. in BIOS setup, under M.I.T. "Enable CPU Host Clock Control" and "Set System MM (SPD)" both keep reseting themselves every time I reboot the machine. I'm sure I pressed F10 to save. I did it a couple of times, and all the other settings are ok. I use F5D bios version. Is this normal ?
Has someone else reported this ?

2. In AOBCT, step 14 (kernel changes) do you recommand item d. (/pcilock) with this hardware ? I don't see the "PNP OS Installed" option.

3. Almost all my tracks are in FLAC one file per track. I still can't figure a way to simply create a .cue file that works with Cmp, cPlay.
If I understand well, cmp converts FLAC files to WAV during RAM loading, so I won't gain (except loading speed) to convert them all to WAV.
Is there a workaround other than loading the tracks one by one, which is pretty far from being ideal.

Thanks for all the time you put in this project.
It is VERY appreciated.

 

RE: Just listened to src upsampler in clpay and ... Oh My God, posted on July 4, 2008 at 09:40:28
appleteapot
Audiophile

Posts: 58
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: May 21, 2008
 I have Bus speed at 100Mhz, multiplier x6, FSB 400, Core speed 600Mhz (all at lowest possible). My motherboard is Asus Commando which is very nosiy

 

re: BUS at 100MHz, FSB at 400MHz, CPU at 600MHz, posted on July 4, 2008 at 10:11:52
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 On Gigabyte mobo I can go down to 161MHz bus speed with RAM at 322 and CPU at 966 - anything lower becomes unstable. This gives improvements and mobo is dead quiet. Vcc (CPU voltage) stays constant at 1.120V during 96k 145db SNR playback (with EIST at x6, i.e. CPU constant at 966MHz) and RAM is set for 3-3-3-9.

For 192k output, a higher bus speed would be needed.

 

RE: Questions, posted on July 4, 2008 at 10:24:37
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
1. in BIOS setup, under M.I.T. "Enable CPU Host Clock Control" and "Set System MM (SPD)" both keep reseting themselves every time I reboot the machine. I'm sure I pressed F10 to save. I did it a couple of times, and all the other settings are ok. I use F5D bios version. Is this normal ?

F5d is correct BIOS. Gigabyte mobo does resets when it can't boot. Try setting higher host frequency - start with default 266MHz and work downwards. Set RAM SPD to x2 always.
2. In AOBCT, step 14 (kernel changes) do you recommand item d. (/pcilock) with this hardware ? I don't see the "PNP OS Installed" option.

Yes - I get no problems. There's more BIOS options when you press Ctrl+F1 and IRQs are set for Auto.
3. Almost all my tracks are in FLAC one file per track. I still can't figure a way to simply create a .cue file that works with Cmp, cPlay.
If I understand well, cmp converts FLAC files to WAV during RAM loading, so I won't gain (except loading speed) to convert them all to WAV.
Is there a workaround other than loading the tracks one by one, which is pretty far from being ideal.

Contact Seger - he has found a way to build cue sheets for multiple FLAC files - see here. cPlay decodes FLAC during RAM Load - so sonically both FLAC and WAV sound the same.

 

RE: re: BUS at 100MHz, FSB at 400MHz, CPU at 600MHz, posted on July 4, 2008 at 11:29:31
appleteapot
Audiophile

Posts: 58
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: May 21, 2008
 I guess you may try set RAM back to 5-5-5-15 and 100Mhz bus (or lowest) to get 600 Mhz (or lowest) core speed. Focus (sound stage) is at max level while high frequency noise is at lowest, so cplay can "squeeze" further the finest details out from the wave file. Just that at 600Mhz you can only upsample to 88.2Khz

For CPU, would 45nm 8000 series be better than 7000 series? Because there are more L2 cache in 8000 series.

For SRC145 at 192Khz, my current 6320+Commando need around 1.2-1.5Ghz in order to run cplay smoothly, but setting speed at such speed will sacrifice 1/3 of the sound stage :( The Commando mobo is definitely not audiophile-friendly.

Do you know whether Asus G31 motherboards are any good? I just "feel" that Asus BIOS are more stable than Gigabyte.

 

RE: re: BUS at 100MHz, FSB at 400MHz, CPU at 600MHz, posted on July 5, 2008 at 02:55:13
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 5-5-5-15 allows for 160MHz Bus. I've settled with 3-3-3-9 and 161MHz Bus. This allows for 24/96k output without any Vcc changes plus some headroom.

E7200 is best option due to lowest power consumption. L2 cache at 3MB is more than whats needed.

Had a look at ASUS G31 offerings and their BIOS settings seems restrictive. Gigabyte's EG31 or G31 offers greater flexibility - just make sure you do the BIOS update. I've asked Gigabyte to include 2 additional BIOS settings (Spread Spectrum & L2 Cache ECC checking) - disabling these would be a further improvement. Gigabyte responded positively to this request...

 

RE: re: BUS at 100MHz, FSB at 400MHz, CPU at 600MHz, posted on July 5, 2008 at 03:03:24
artcheng@netvigator.com
Audiophile

Posts: 388
Joined: November 14, 2003
 Cic,

Seems that G33 is slightly more power efficient?

http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsHomeServer/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=3189161&SiteID=50

 

G33 vs G31 power consumption, posted on July 5, 2008 at 03:34:14
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 See this review which tests both G33 & G31 chipsets using ECS mobo. Look at power consumption without the graphics card:



Both are close but in cMP, video in northbridge is disabled. Load testing has bias towards graphics whilst both chipsets offer same RAM performance. It's worth testing.

 

RE: cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO, posted on July 5, 2008 at 06:13:12
Doc Gaw
Reviewer

Posts: 137
Joined: February 23, 2002
 Cics: Are you still using the Juli@soundcard or have you found something better for balanced analog or SPDIF output?.

 

Soundcards used, posted on July 5, 2008 at 07:00:08
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 For reference setup outputting 24/96 SPDIF I use RME HDSP9652 or Juli@ (without analogue PCB). Both are very good with Juli@ having a slight edge over RME. Juli@ also has advantage of 24/192k SPDIF output.

Since implementing new hardware specs, I haven't tried the Juli@ - will be doing it soon. Previous setup had both cards installed as I got dedicated IRQs and this made it easier to switch DACs (Juli@ to AA Prestige SE & RME to dCS Scarlatti). Not so with Gigabyte which offers only one PCI slot with dedicated IRQ.

My 2nd setup uses EMU1212M which offers better balanced analogue outs than Juli@. Juli@'s analogue outs are average quality.

I plan to get the Lynx AES-XLR for dual AES 192k output (not soon though).

 

This is what I have, posted on July 5, 2008 at 09:06:37
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 CPU-Z 1.46 report file

Processor(s)

Number of processors 1
Number of cores 2 per processor
Number of threads 2 per processor
Name AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+
Code Name Brisbane
Specification AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4400+
Package Socket AM2 (940)
Family/Model/Stepping F.B.1
Extended Family/Model F.6B
Brand ID 4
Core Stepping BH-G1
Technology 65 nm
Core Speed 2004.3 MHz
Multiplier x Bus speed 10.0 x 200.4 MHz
HT Link speed 1002.2 MHz
Stock frequency 2300 MHz
Instruction sets MMX (+), 3DNow! (+), SSE, SSE2, SSE3, x86-64
L1 Data cache (per processor) 2 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L1 Instruction cache (per processor) 2 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L2 cache (per processor) 2 x 512 KBytes, 16-way set associative, 64-byte line size

Chipset & Memory

Northbridge NVIDIA GeForce 6150 rev. A2
Southbridge NVIDIA nForce 410/430 MCP rev. A3
Memory Type DDR2
Memory Size 1024 MBytes
Memory Frequency 334.1 MHz (CPU/6)
CAS# Latency (tCL) 5.0 clocks
RAS# to CAS# (tRCD) 5 clocks
RAS# Precharge (tRP) 5 clocks
Cycle Time (tRAS) 15 clocks
Bank Cycle Time (tRC) 21 clocks
Command Rate (CR) 1T

System

System Manufacturer Dell Inc
System Name Dimension E521
System S/N 38462D1
Mainboard Vendor Dell Inc
Mainboard Model
BIOS Vendor Dell Inc
BIOS Version 1.1.6
BIOS Date 04/07/2007

Memory SPD

Module 1 DDR2, PC2-5300 (333 MHz), 512 MBytes, Hyundai Electronics
Module 2 DDR2, PC2-5300 (333 MHz), 512 MBytes, Hyundai Electronics

Software

Windows Version Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
DirectX Version 9.0c

 

F6 has replaced F5d, posted on July 5, 2008 at 09:19:06
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

When I went to get the recommended F5d I see there is a new iteration.

I could not get the machine to recognize QFLASH with the USB memory so I used the @BIOS software on the supplied CD(I think that is right) and installed within WINDOWS which was as simple as could be. After using it I deleted it.

Connecting an IDE CDROM to the GIGABYTE board was the trick, it was recognized and the combination resulted in the fastest WINDOWS installation I have experienced.

The first part (with the blue screen) blazed by, it always seemed to take forever before.

I checked the forum before going upstairs to install cPLAY #19 and to listen to a proper implementation. As always it will take some time to setlle in.

THANKS,

Rick McInnis

 

Nice bug in P4M900 gives me 600Mhz...which sounds best, posted on July 5, 2008 at 10:52:20
frennekamp@netcologne.de
Audiophile

Posts: 30
Joined: November 18, 2000
 I dpn'T know if anyone else noticed that: ON the P4M900, when it is completely untouched, it gives the CPU 100 Mhz as reference instead of 200 Mhz. CPU-ID reports really this 600 Mhz when no heavy hit is there. This sounds in my setp best. I figured out, that you can get rid of this bug if you increase in the setup to 201 mhz, save and afterwards go back to 200 Mhz, and than you have for a e2180 as well 1200 as the orgininally intended lowest seed. But 600 mhz sounds better. Clearer.

Cics, have you compared that with the G31 / e7200 ? How low can the Gigbyte G31 board bring a CPU ? And would the E8200 be better or the e7200 ?

 

Need help using cPlay with Lynx ASIO, posted on July 5, 2008 at 13:41:04
kwlam
Audiophile

Posts: 15
Joined: January 12, 2002
 Hi cics,

Thank you for building this really nice stuff. I have setup a system with cMP + foobar2000 with a Lynx L22 card. The improvement is significantly better than the original AOBCT and could easily beat most of the high end CD players.

I also installed cPlay but couldn't get it to work with the Lynx ASIO driver. I tried cPlay with and without cMP and got the same error messages. There are 3 messages; the last message indicates a cPlay restart is required but restarting cPlay didn't help. Is there a way to allow cPlay to start playing the track without asking for a restart? Here are the messages....

Message #1:

cPlay Diagnostics

cicsPlay 1.0b18, licensed under GNU GPL
ASIO Technology by Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
ASIO is a trademark and software of Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH

ASIO Driver Initializing...
Name (ASIO Lynx)
Player ASIO version (2)
Driver ASIO version (2)
Message (No ASIO Driver Error)
Channels (inputs: 16, outputs: 16)
Buffer details (min: 32, max: 1024, preferred: 32, granularity: -1)
Sample rate ( 44100)
Output Ready? Supported
Preparing buffers... successful
Latencies (input: 98, output: 104)
Hardware supports additional optimization - enabled

ASIO Driver initialized.

DSP starting...
DSP Buffer (6144 samples or 139ms/ 7.2/ 1378.1) allocation successful

ASIO Driver starting...
Input 1 [ Lynx L22 Record 01 Left ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Input 2 [ Lynx L22 Record 01 Right ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Input 3 [ Lynx L22 Record 02 Left ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Input 4 [ Lynx L22 Record 02 Right ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Input 5 [ Lynx L22 Record 03 Left ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Input 6 [ Lynx L22 Record 03 Right ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Input 7 [ Lynx L22 Record 04 Left ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Input 8 [ Lynx L22 Record 04 Right ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Input 9 [ Lynx L22 Record 05 Left ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Input 10 [ Lynx L22 Record 05 Right ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Input 11 [ Lynx L22 Record 06 Left ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Input 12 [ Lynx L22 Record 06 Right ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Input 13 [ Lynx L22 Record 07 Left ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Input 14 [ Lynx L22 Record 07 Right ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Input 15 [ Lynx L22 Record 08 Left ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Input 16 [ Lynx L22 Record 08 Right ] Active (0) type (32bits)

Output 1 [ Lynx L22 Play 01 Left ] Active (1) type (32bits) > Left Channel
Output 2 [ Lynx L22 Play 01 Right ] Active (1) type (32bits) > Right Channel
Output 3 [ Lynx L22 Play 02 Left ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Output 4 [ Lynx L22 Play 02 Right ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Output 5 [ Lynx L22 Play 03 Left ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Output 6 [ Lynx L22 Play 03 Right ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Output 7 [ Lynx L22 Play 04 Left ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Output 8 [ Lynx L22 Play 04 Right ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Output 9 [ Lynx L22 Play 05 Left ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Output 10 [ Lynx L22 Play 05 Right ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Output 11 [ Lynx L22 Play 06 Left ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Output 12 [ Lynx L22 Play 06 Right ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Output 13 [ Lynx L22 Play 07 Left ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Output 14 [ Lynx L22 Play 07 Right ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Output 15 [ Lynx L22 Play 08 Left ] Active (0) type (32bits)
Output 16 [ Lynx L22 Play 08 Right ] Active (0) type (32bits)

ASIO started successfully.

AUDIO source [ D:\CD\ITouchTheStar\Track01.wav ]
Genre = Unknown
Artist = D:\CD\ITouchTheStar\Track01.wav
Album = WAV

FILE: D:\CD\ITouchTheStar\Track01.wav
Wav file size = 46MB
Rate = 16/44100 (2 channels)
Samples = 12183360 ( 4:36)

RAM allocation (47MB) successful

DSP Started.

Play starts after RAM load (available 1810MB, system 2038MB).
Volume (-30.0db, phase 0)
SRC (1, 44100)
SRC upsampling will be bypassed.
-------------------
Message #2:

cPlay

Player has stopped or did NOT start successfully. This may occur if:

1. Settings has not been done
2. No .cue, .wav or .flac was supplied
3. An external ASIO event occurred
New sample rate or latency
Driver requested resync or reset
4. ASIO did NOT start successfully
5. DSP did NOT start successfully
6. Content file is invalid, too large or you don't have enough RAM
7. No ASIO dirvers installed

Restart player and/or correct settings.

OK
--------------------
Message #3:

cPlay Diagnostics

ASIO buffer settings (Rate or Latency) have changed. Please restart player.
RAM Loading...
File 'D:\CD\ITouchTheStar\Track01.WAV'

OK

 

RE: cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO, posted on July 5, 2008 at 15:27:37
seger
 Foobar cuesheet creator plugin works great with flac files. Details are here

 

CPU Underclocking, posted on July 5, 2008 at 17:44:35
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 That's a nice bug! E1200 with SRC @ 121db SNR would do very well. Benefit of lowering CPU clock is lower power consumption.

I haven't done a direct G31/E7200 vs P4M900/E1200 comparison but can confirm that G31/E7200 using SRC@121db SNR is very similar - I couldn't tell any differences from memory. Using SRC@145db SNR is a different matter. Sound improves. This is best done using E7200 which at 96k output, I can underclock to 966MHz. I prefer not going lower to maintain some headroom on CPU 0 (load is ~78%).

Avoid E8200 - E7200 offers lowest power consumption (lower than E1200).

 

RE: Need help using cPlay with Lynx ASIO, posted on July 5, 2008 at 17:52:53
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Problem is in Message #3.

Your Lynx card is changing critical settings (which must be done at ASIO initialization). cPlay is gettting this message at start of play which it then stops and gives message #3. I've seen this same issue on Vista. It's much better to use XP SP2 Pro. Can you test using another soundcard?

 

Also disable 'Numeric data processor' - this is a legacy device and can be done on all mobos., posted on July 5, 2008 at 17:54:22
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 .

 

RE: Need help using cPlay with Lynx ASIO, posted on July 5, 2008 at 20:03:56
kwlam
Audiophile

Posts: 15
Joined: January 12, 2002
 Thanks for the reply, I'm using XP Home SP3 with a MSI G33M motherboard.
I will try RME Fireface 800 and report the result later.

 

Use AWE with cPlay, posted on July 6, 2008 at 00:09:11
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 AWE gives better results. Setup of AWE (lock privilege) is explained here.

Any chance of using XP Pro?

 

RE: This is what I have, posted on July 6, 2008 at 00:56:39
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 I'm not familiar with AMD / NVidia.

From what you showing, outputting 24/96 with this setup using SRC@145db SNR will work. Much better results can be gained using a more power efficient setup - by this I mean your current setup is using high clock speeds (CPU @ 2GHz, RAM @ 334MHz). Also, L2 cache is not ideal at 512KB per processor - limited to 1MB and not shared but split: 512KB is allocated per CPU core makes it less ideal. Intel Core 2 Duo (Conroe and up) implements a shared L2 cache.

 

RE: This is what I have, posted on July 6, 2008 at 03:00:58
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 If I keep the processor is there anything else I can do in bios to improve this? (Recognizing I am into Cool & Quiet which altough variable in speed/voltage does underclock/undrrvolt somewhat.)

 

RE: re: BUS at 100MHz, FSB at 400MHz, CPU at 600MHz, posted on July 6, 2008 at 06:37:49
appleteapot
Audiophile

Posts: 58
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: May 21, 2008
 Hi Cics,

I re-check 600Mhz vs 900Mhz again and they do sound different... At 600Mhz/ upsample 88.2, the playback has better sound stage, finer details and is more airy. On the other hand, although I can upsample to 96Khz at 900Mhz, the airy feel loss about 15% and I have to set it back to 600Mhz after repeated comparisons. Highly recommend to see if 600Mhz is achievable...

 

Some experience to share, posted on July 6, 2008 at 10:08:58
alfred-kraut@arcor.de
Audiophile

Posts: 116
Joined: July 6, 2008
 Hallo cics,
at first many thanks for your player. A big footprint in pc-audio history.
I am working for 3 years with PC-audioand i used foobar ,
different soundcards: -1212m e-mu etc.
diffeent USB to SPDif converter:
Trend, and hoerwege usb to spdif).
The PC only as a transporter with an external DAC, because all solutions for DA in the PC are lacking quality.
Best results till now:
AMD 3800 underclocked to 800Mhz. 1GB DDR1 with 200FSB.
SATA Drive with external PS.
Windows stripped down to 70MB in the RAM.
AND !!the ESI Juli latency 48 and upsampling to 88,2.

This System is blowing away every CD-Playeer i Know ( High End).

So next steps are a look at Intels Atom Processor on a car mobo with 12 V powered by Sealed Batteries ( 4x12 V to achieve little inner resistance.)

And!! Lokking for cplay 20 21 22 and so on .
Cheers
alfred





 

OK, my P4M900 burned one PCI-Slot - so stay with that model or go to G31 if no upsampling is wanted ?, posted on July 6, 2008 at 10:48:53
frennekamp@netcologne.de
Audiophile

Posts: 30
Joined: November 18, 2000
 I somehow smoked the PCI-Slot of that P4M900...so need to buy a new motherboard.

I have no yet compared the new SRC 145 db upsampler completely, but I still kike no upsampling in the PC best. I have an integrated upsampler in the RAKK-DAC which anyhow does upsampling to 192khz with any input signal...so, I guess we compare now simply upsamplers and effecs on data transport / jitter. I like the upsampling done in the DAC best currently.

So, if I don't need the muscle of the e7200: Would you recomend thatI go to e7200 at 966 Mhz with the G31 board you suggest or buy another P4M900 ?

THX for your advice.

 

RE: Use AWE with cPlay, posted on July 6, 2008 at 14:40:07
kwlam
Audiophile

Posts: 15
Joined: January 12, 2002
 If I can get cPlay to work with Lynx or RME Fireface, I would also try AWE. Other than AWE, is there any other reasons for using XP Pro? Thanks!

 

RE: Need help using cPlay with Lynx ASIO, posted on July 6, 2008 at 16:09:47
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 From my own experimenting Lynx asio will not work under Vista or XP pro sp3 running any version of cPlay after b7. It does work with b7, so you could try that though sq advances were made subsequently.

For general info: EA freeway 2 and offramp turbo 2 will run with Asio4all in cPlay or cMP/cPlay. This is so although its maker says it doesn't work with ASIO and indeed it does not work with creative asio or lynx asio, in my experience.

 

RE: OK, my P4M900 burned one PCI-Slot - so stay with that model or go to G31 if no upsampling is wanted ?, posted on July 6, 2008 at 23:40:14
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Go with Gigabyte/E7200 - it betters E1200.

My preference is for upsampling in computer and not DAC. You want to do very little math in DAC. Also, DACs don't specify type of upsampler being used - its subject to constraints (processing power) and often result in inferior methods.

cMP2 into dCS Scarlatti DAC at 24/96 is superior to non-upsampled 44.1 output (I get digital artifacts like grainy / forward highs). I want to now send 192k using dual AES.

 

I'll try and get a Lynx card and test, posted on July 6, 2008 at 23:42:59
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 .

 

RE: cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO, posted on July 7, 2008 at 02:36:59
alfred-kraut@arcor.de
Audiophile

Posts: 116
Joined: July 6, 2008
 Hallo cics,( Sorry posted before in the wrong chapter)
at first many thanks for your player. A big footprint in pc-audio history.
I am working for 3 years with PC-audioand i used foobar ,
different soundcards: -1212m e-mu etc.
diffeent USB to SPDif converter:
Trend, and hoerwege usb to spdif).
The PC only as a transporter with an external DAC, because all solutions for DA in the PC are lacking quality.
Best results till now:
AMD 3800 underclocked to 800Mhz. 1GB DDR1 with 200FSB.
SATA Drive with external PS.
Windows stripped down to 70MB in the RAM.
AND !!the ESI Juli latency 48 and upsampling to 88,2.

This system is blowing away every CD-Playeer i Know ( High End).

So next steps are a look at Intels Atom Processor on a car-motherboard with 12 V powered by sealed batteries ( 4x12 V to achieve little inner resistance.)
Are there any thoughts at the atom- processor -solution
And!! Lokking for cplay 20 21 22 and so on .
Cheers
alfred

 

Intel's Atom Processor, posted on July 7, 2008 at 05:43:21
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Great feedback. Thx.

See this discussion on the Diamondville Platform. Rather wait for dual core version which would allow for most optimum playback using cMP.

I suspect these processors will only do SRC@121db SNR. Definitely worth a try.

 

Interesting tradeoff between power consumption and level of Upsampling, posted on July 7, 2008 at 06:13:00
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Seems in your case using E6320 processor, 600MHz & 88.2 is better than 900MHz & 96. That additional benefit to 96k is lost due to more power (causing interference).

Not sure if you'd get same results using E7200 processor - lowest stable underclocking using latest BIOS (F6) is 990MHz (FSB @ 165MHz).

Overall, I would do 192k at higher power consumption using E7200 as benefit of 192k with SRC@145db SNR is significant.

 

The End of History?, posted on July 7, 2008 at 08:33:02
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

To paraphrase the title of Fukuyama's book ((which, too, was a bit (no pun intended) premature)), now that I have the GIGABYTE/e7200 set up complete with all recommendations made, and allowing it to run for about twelve hours, I listened seriously last night for about two hours.

I wonder how much more information can be revealed? The sound seemed to flow effortlessly from the speakers. Words sung were much more intelligible than ever before, spaciousness did not sound contrived, no black or grey background, no "color" to the ground at all. Sounds came from where they were intended (I have to believe). It gave the impression that this was DONE. Which is kind of sad, part of the fun of this had been the increments of increasing quality. Can there really be any additonal significant steps?

I am using the JULI@ card at 192kHz, -145 db version of SRC with no glitches at all.

I figure at this point trying to deal with radiation from the power supply and from the processor and motherboard are worth pursuing. I have been looking at the ERS cloth from STILLPOINTS as something worth implementing.

Not that I am hearing RFI interference but we know it is there.

The e7200 stays cool, even with the GOLDEN ORB perched atop the chip weighted down by a small choke. The hardware does not clear the capacitors near the processot. I have a new THERMALRIGHT heat sink due today. Seems to be an updated version of the one recommended in the cMP MANUAL. I cannot imagine it ever heating up at all with this thing.

The best part of a significant upgrade such as this is that you get to really enjoy listening to all of your favorite recordings,again,since you are hearing new details, etc.

For those who are getting the GIGABYTE board, I found using their software that allows BIOS software changes within WINDOWS to be foolproof, since I was able to do it!

If you are using an USB CD-ROM you will probably find as I did that the MB does not recognize it when it matters for doing your WINDOWS installation. As per cics's recommendations: use an internal drive at the IDE connector. For the loading of WINDOWS this does a much better job. MUCH quicker and then you can remove it when you are done.
see:http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/3/33792.html

So, yet again, my sincerest thanks to cics for his enlightened selfishness. While doing something to increase his pleasure while listening to music in the home, he has also shared his knowledge with all who will pay attention. I wish I could offer something half as great in return. At this point all I have to offer is gratitude.

Rick McInnis

 

RE: The End of History?, posted on July 7, 2008 at 08:38:04
artcheng@netvigator.com
Audiophile

Posts: 388
Joined: November 14, 2003
 I suppose if the upsampling can be done while loading the wav to RAM, that will save a huge chuck of CPU resources and may make further improvement

 

RE: The End of History?, posted on July 7, 2008 at 08:51:02
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Congratulations I am envious of you. I have some of the cmp ideas worked into my dell. But I know I want to join you some day in going the whole nine yards.

Happy listening!!

 

RE: The End of History?, posted on July 7, 2008 at 09:21:28
alfred-kraut@arcor.de
Audiophile

Posts: 116
Joined: July 6, 2008
 Hallo
i am german , so forgive for my poor english.
I read your post and i am very near to your listening experience.My listening time with very expensive stuff comes to a lucky end.
I worked much time with digital amps and there the PS with very low inner resistance is very important for SQ . So i do
power supply with many paralleled sealed batteries and big capacitors and for the richness of sound some little glimmer and styroflex capacitors also parallel.So the next step will be a PC-powersupply with this attempt in the power-lines.The big work will be the search for the lines ( 12,5, 3, Volts ) which are the most imortant,. If there are some result i will post it.
cheers
alfred

 

I look (?) forward to hearing (!) what you come up with, posted on July 7, 2008 at 10:58:42
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear Alfred,

All of us audio-obsessesed know whow important the power supply is to all audio components.

I, too, use batteries for the above 500 hz amps in my system. It was the only way I could achieve quiet. Even there, the ESR makes a big difference. If you are not using SLA batteries of LARGE size you are not hearing what batteries can do.

Maybe we do not have to go with all batteries for a computer supply? The twelve volts rail seems to do most of the work, and with the GRANITE outboard supplies for the USB, it might not be such a big deal.

I think the sound card uses the twelve volts rail, also. Is this correct?

I look forward to hearing what you come up with.

As we all say over here, I wish my German was as good as your English.
Your intentions came through clearly.

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: Need help using cPlay with Lynx ASIO, posted on July 7, 2008 at 11:30:31
kwlam
Audiophile

Posts: 15
Joined: January 12, 2002
 Hi cics, I'm able to use cPlay with RME Fireface ASIO. cPlay sounds very nice, I had briefly compared it with foobar 9.5.3 on my XP machine that is without any optimization. cPlay is clearly a much better player....Thanks

 

RE: I look (?) forward to hearing (!) what you come up with, posted on July 7, 2008 at 13:52:15
alfred-kraut@arcor.de
Audiophile

Posts: 116
Joined: July 6, 2008
 Dear Rick,
the world of hifi is sometimes pretty small.In the very first beginning in sla experience i tried also big batteries , they have smaler
esr than little ones, but 4, 8 or even 12 batteries paralleled are blowing up SQ because of devided ESRs.(I am using sla powerd amps above 80 Hz and i gave away high- highend valve amps for the battery powered amps )
Soundcard unfortunately is using 3,3 , 5, and 12 Volt in the PCI-rail but i agree, that it would be the the 12+- V line to give a first try.

bye
alfred

 

USB ASIO questions, posted on July 9, 2008 at 07:37:32
fr338
Audiophile

Posts: 10
Joined: June 4, 2008
 I am still struggling to see how to use my USB device with SRC.( this may seem kind of silly to others but I always think laptop is the quietest PC) Cics once mentioned ASIO4ALL is 16bits & 44.1KHz only. I believe so since this is shown on the setting in ASIO4ALL and I cannot alter it. But can I use USB ASIO driver instead ? I installed USB ASIO 2.6.1 but Cics player rejects to operate saying it need ASIO 32 bits. I asked USB ASIO help desk and Markus response to me USB ASIO is 32 bits.

When using foobar with the same drivers above I am able to use SRC. In SRC mode foobar has something missing in the 16/44.1 cics. Cics is very clean, but foobar seems to have more relax presentation using 24/96 src.

 

RE: USB ASIO questions, posted on July 9, 2008 at 07:55:56
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I use asio4all with cplay & my benchmark and set the asio4all panel offline to 24/96 with -145 db src and it works.


i tried d/l ing the asio usb driver and I continue to get a 'fail to install' message and I tried all 3 xp drivers shown on the web site.

So go into your offline asio4all panel (should be on desktop) and reset. Stop your cplay and restart. If you choose to see diagnostics you will see if its set at 24/96 or 16/44.

What operating system do you have to get asio usb driver to work? I have xp sp2 and could not get any of the 3 xp drivers to install.

 

RE: USB ASIO questions, posted on July 9, 2008 at 08:22:46
fr338
Audiophile

Posts: 10
Joined: June 4, 2008
 I am unable to set ASIO4ALL. The version number is 2.8. Say, currently since maybe I have installed USB ASIO , it says "AudioDevice on USB Bus 2.6.1 -next indented line - In: 2x44.1kHz, 16bits - next line - Out: 2x44.1kHz,16 bits

Do you have a different UI than this one that can change setting ?

I am using winxp pro tablet version. I suppose the same as a normal pro except adding touch panel driver...

 

RE: USB ASIO questions, posted on July 9, 2008 at 08:30:40
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 only thing I can surmise about your issue is that your pc won't take greater than 16/44 on asio-usb or that you are not using the right asio panel . Unistall asio4all and try again you may get the asio-usb panel. In fact I may try that to install 2.8 but markus said it should not be an issue either way.

 

In your cMP² can you try single 1GB RAM stick option, posted on July 9, 2008 at 08:32:48
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
I wonder how much more information can be revealed?

I'm testing a few options and my preference is for the single RAM module option. Although this halves memory performance, there's one less device in the equation...

Try it on your setup using previous 1GB RAM stick.

BTW - just hooked up Juli@ soundcard (24/96 SRC@145db SNR) and its excellent!

 

RE: USB ASIO questions, posted on July 9, 2008 at 08:36:55
fr338
Audiophile

Posts: 10
Joined: June 4, 2008
 I use a USB-SPDIF converter that has a spec of 16/44.1(or 48k) only. Would that be the reason ?
But again why I use the same ASIO4ALL with the same 16/44.1 setting can run with foobar SRC ?

 

RE: This is what I have, posted on July 9, 2008 at 08:48:50
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 ok here are my follow up questions.

Since I have an amd AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4400+ cpu with Socket AM2 (940)can I really install a Intel Core 2 Duo (Conroe and up) w/o replacing the mobo?

Can I install one of your recommended rams and will it work with my amd if I'm stuck with it? Here is my current ram again DDR2, PC2-5300 (333 MHz), 512 MBytes, Hyundai Electronics. Or is this ok?

I'm looking for near term solutions with current pc since I cannot buy all the cmp hardware at this time. But cmp is my longterm solution.

 

RE: This is what I have, posted on July 9, 2008 at 10:02:10
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
can I really install a Intel Core 2 Duo (Conroe and up) w/o replacing the mobo?


No.

Can I install one of your recommended rams and will it work with my amd if I'm stuck with it? Here is my current ram again DDR2, PC2-5300 (333 MHz), 512 MBytes, Hyundai Electronics. Or is this ok?


Yes, use recommended Kingston RAM. I'm not familiar with Hyundai - I suspect these are not designed for overclocking. Rather keep this RAM and start with new mobo & CPU. You can then build up from there as all other components like DDR2 RAM and HDDs can be used.

 

RE: G33 vs G31 power consumption, posted on July 10, 2008 at 03:56:13
artcheng@netvigator.com
Audiophile

Posts: 388
Joined: November 14, 2003
 Seems like the G43 chip set is even more power saving.....

 

Of course I will & battery MB musings, posted on July 10, 2008 at 08:23:10
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

THOUGH, as much trouble as I went through to get the 2 512mB sticks I would almost guess you are testing ME!!! My loyalty has been proved since I am listening to the 2 x 512 set-up. Easy as can be to change out the memory. and always fun to see what happens.

Not tonight, but over the weekend I will give it a serious listen.

I feel like saying PERFECT SOUND FOREVER (as long as your HDD is backed up).

It is, up to now, a pleasure to listen through this. Maybe in a month's time some flaws will become apparent, but they obviously will not be grotesque ones. It is a great system, cics.

What do you think of Alfred's interest in battery power? I looked around yesterday at what would be required. My first impression, after looking at INTEL's application notes, is that the turn on sequence is very complicated and important for the "life" of the processor. I guess one could use the regular power supply to power relays to turn on batteries as the sequence requires?

If one was to pursue this: what is the most important place for quiet power? The processor, the memory, the sound card? In what order would you place importance?

Obviously, the easiest rail to swap is the 12 volts rail. Is the processor powered by the four pin connector, only?

What do you think of doncheng's idea of storing the upsampled music within memory; letting the processor do very little during playback? I do not know how to calculate such things but I would guess the 24/192 upsampled "file" would exceed the 4 gB limit of our MB. So would this be possible with the current BEST set-up?

I would enjoy hearing your opinions if you have the time.

Congratulations, and extravagant thanks for the effort and its execution,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: Of course I will & battery MB musings, posted on July 10, 2008 at 09:28:07
alfred-kraut@arcor.de
Audiophile

Posts: 116
Joined: July 6, 2008
 Hallo,
I think battery power is a littlebit to much for all the rails.My Hifi setup with 12 Batteries is complicated enough.
I have very good results with switching PS and a big block of for example siemens sicorels with low ESR. Switching PSs with my amps are better than conventional PSs !?. So we can try perhaps to do some good kondensators parallel two the 12 V rail. The 4 Pin connector is an additional support for the processor by a power consuption over 60 Watts.So perhaps all 12V lines have to be buffered. Its a littlebit trial and error.
bye and thanks
alfred

 

RE: In your cMP² can you try single 1GB RAM stick option, posted on July 10, 2008 at 09:31:31
alfred-kraut@arcor.de
Audiophile

Posts: 116
Joined: July 6, 2008
 hi cics
i agree . i tried several ram solutions and 1GB was always better than dual ram.
Looking forward two offline upsampling because all online sessions with 145 SRC upsamling are less natural.
bye
alfred

 

RE: G33 vs G31 power consumption, posted on July 10, 2008 at 09:44:28
appleteapot
Audiophile

Posts: 58
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: May 21, 2008
 Hi ackcheng,

where did you get the G43 power consumption information? I am still thinking of buying a full size board and fill all the empty slots with NO-PCI.

On the other hand, I just bought GA-G31M-S2L and 7200 this evening. However, they come DOA... I need to replace them tomorrow. I may get a Asus instead.

 

Alfred, where is a good place to start?, posted on July 10, 2008 at 15:15:45
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Alfred,

It seems you have made some modifications to the MB.

Please be specific where you find improvements to be useful. Let me know which rails have benefited from the added, and in ther case of SICORILS better capacitance. I would like to like to give it a try but I have no idea where or how to start.

I have a second GIGABYTE board I would like to implement your suggestions. I would be glad to mirror what you have done and offer my impressions if that is of interest to you.

Thanks,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: G33 vs G31 power consumption, posted on July 10, 2008 at 17:58:03
artcheng@netvigator.com
Audiophile

Posts: 388
Joined: November 14, 2003
 No direct comparison yet. Only report on the general use of 65nm processing that makes the G43 and g45 chipset less power hungry. I am planning to buy G33 chipset at I cannot find G31 chipset that allows me to use 4G of ram

 

Dual vs Single Channel; RAM loading upsampled WAV; Voltages, posted on July 10, 2008 at 20:47:49
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 There's advantage from using dual channel memory and could reduce jitter by a very small amount. Unfortunately (like most things) there's a tradeoff: another electrical device.

Arthur's suggestion: Same applies to RAM loading upsampled WAV data as significantly more RAM is needed. Of course, one approach in cPlay would be to RAM load track at a time with each track upsampled into RAM and not during playback. This could be accommodated with just 1GB RAM. This needs a playlist GUI tool that would marshal one track to the next... That would be very nice indeed! Any volunteers to do the coding?

Voltage rails: I would start at 12V1 which unfortunately carries 12V, 5V & 3.3V lines of which 5V & 12V are critical. PCI slots offer 3.3 or 5 volt supply - you can tell this by where the notch is: front (close to mobo edge) is 3.3V and rear is 5V (Gigabyte & Biostar mobos). Soundcards are designed to operate with either voltage.

Alfred is correct, 12V2 (4 pin 12V connector) is used to power CPU.

 

RE: USB ASIO questions, posted on July 10, 2008 at 23:51:50
fr338
Audiophile

Posts: 10
Joined: June 4, 2008
 theob,

Do you think my problem is because I am using winxp pro ? Are you using winxp home ?

 

RE: USB ASIO questions, posted on July 11, 2008 at 04:17:52
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I honestly don't think that is the answer. I am using xp home editio n. I'm stll upset I can't get usb-asio. Markus never answered my last question regarding why none of the xp versions could be instaslled on my pc.

 

BUT do you think this is worth pursuing?, posted on July 11, 2008 at 08:52:33
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

In the great scheme of approaching "perfection in music reproduction using a PC" have you considered what would be the pecking order of importance?

In your opinion, what are the most important things to be concerned with and almost as importantly, which concern you the least?

If someone out here was to lend a hand to your method, where would it be most helpful? You have already specified one, with the loading of one upsampled song at a time into the memory. Where would you place that?

If for fun we wanted to create some "one song files" to experiment with this approach is there an easy way to implement this? I guess we should see what is gained before going too far with it!

In this tweaker's world where we have succeeded in making digital playback every bit as tweaky as analogue, why not? For the absolute best recordings and favorite songs even a convoluted approach could be worthwhile. I think of the many 12" 45's I have that sounded much better than the LP even though there was limited playing time. Who cares for a few minutes of something better?

I fear that if playback was truly perfected we would not listen any more. There is a challenge to make it better (or is it just- different) that drives us for better or for worse. Usually both at the same time.

C'est le guerre!

Thanks as always to cics,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: USB ASIO questions, posted on July 11, 2008 at 09:02:32
fr338
Audiophile

Posts: 10
Joined: June 4, 2008
 theob,

Do you use both USB and PCI audio card digital output to your benchmark ? Can you share whether USB excel PCI or the other way round ?

 

RE: BUT do you think this is worth pursuing?, posted on July 11, 2008 at 09:27:06
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 Yes, of course it is. Any method of ram-loading a sequence of files from a list(playlist)would greatly enhance the usefulness and applicability (e.g., hd downloaded music) of cPlay and cMP as well as making loading of processed files possible. The other high priority re GUI would be to have an option to resize the window and/or font. The latter would seem to me as a non-programmer to be a simple thing for anyone with the know how.

Could you explain the request for how to make single song files? Single flac files are already playable in cPlay and foobar can make a cue file for a single file.

 

Cics:I'm getting a Juli card -- you said to remove analogue board, posted on July 11, 2008 at 09:34:50
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Can I do this right from the start before installing and loading juli drivers? I will also only use spdif out at 192 to my Benchmark. Was this the juli mod you said was required to run 24/192 out or is there something else too?

Also can you confirm thet the analogue board is the one that detaches and can be turned around for either rca out or balanced out?

 

RE: USB ASIO questions, posted on July 11, 2008 at 09:41:33
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I will be able to tell you next week after I get my juli card how juli at 192 sounds. Last week I tried a Prodigy 7.1 lt but could get only 24/96 out of spdif. But comparing usb versus prodigy at 24/96 through an Audio Alchemy powered i2s cable, the usb cable sounded better.

 

RE: USB ASIO questions, posted on July 11, 2008 at 09:45:11
fr338
Audiophile

Posts: 10
Joined: June 4, 2008
 I look forward to your comparison. I am struggling if I should build a desktop with Juli@ to get the full capability of SRC.

 

RE: USB ASIO questions, posted on July 11, 2008 at 11:07:53
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 what dac do you have?

 

My installation, posted on July 11, 2008 at 13:14:20
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 You should try installing it w/o the analog part which is the removable part, otherwise you would have nothing to plug in.

I replaced the RCA for a BNC connecctor to be sure the connector was not a filter. I never tried it with RCA's since my cables were BNC, which for this application is the superior connector.

Be sure to download the new .979 drivers and have them within a USB memory or on your DESKTOP.

I let the supplied CD install the control panel, which is always the first thing installed with this device. Let machine do this automatically as recommended by WINDOWS.

After this is installed, remove the CD. I have found that if you install the second set of drivers on the CD, it becomes slow and strange to remove them in favor of the new (.979) driver.

Usually you will be prompted for the second set of installation (the language is awkward but I cannot think fo a better way to put it), instead of doing the RECOMMENDED thing (letting WINDOWS find the file to install) select the option of pointing the computer to where the driver is. Using the BROWSE button, keep clicking till you get what the machine wants (as you can tell I do not know proper computer terminology but I hope you get what I am saying).

For me, with the driver on the USB stick, you first click on the USB drive, you click JULI@ (or whatever it is you named this when you downloaded it) I am going from memory now and finding my memory is not photographic, SO once you have selected THE FILE AS YOU NAMED IT just keep clicking the choices given under what you first selected until the machine allows you to go further. Then click the OPEN button and it installs the thing and then you are done.

The control panel will come up and in the right corner it will verify that you have the .979 driver version. Under CONFIGRATION, select LATENCY and select 48. You are done with this part.

Now, go into cPLAY SETTINGS, I have found on my application that I must select channels 3,4 to get sound instead of the default 1,2. Make any other pertinent choices here and then close. When you open cMP you should begin to experience musical pleasure that will continue to improve as everything settles in.

I hope this made sense. I was trying to save cics the trouble. Of course, it was cics who led me through the installation.

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

Files already upsampled into the memory, posted on July 11, 2008 at 13:27:20
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 As cics said in his reply, that if the ALREADY upsampled files (which would allow the processor to "idle" during playback) were loaded one song/movement at a time this could be done with the 1gB of memory.

Analogous to how cPLAY converts a FLAC file to WAV before sending it to the memory as opposed to converting it while the file is in use. This way a 24/192 file would be played back from memory while the porcessor loafs with little to do. Seems intriguing to me. I'd like to hear what a difference this would make.

Especially since most of cics's recommendation are based upon keeping the processor as unoccupied as possible, this is an obvious step; another evolution of the cics method of musical digital playback!

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: My installation, posted on July 11, 2008 at 15:17:29
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Let me ask some clarifying f/u questions.

1) Install only the digital hardware into my physical pc (i.e., without the removable analogue board). Correct?

2) Convert the rca connector on the juli board with a bnc adapter. Then use a bnc cable from the juli board to my dac. Correct?

3)Download the new .979 drivers (from where?) and put them somewhere accesible (on desktop). Correct?

4) Load the juli cd and only install the control panel (first item) but continue the installation by pointing to the new drivers via browse. Correct?

5) Then I click something to open (is this part of the install process?) and the control panel opens. Correct?

6)Verify .979 then select latency.

7)This one has me confused 'go into cplay or juli to select channels 3,4'?

8) Begin the breakin process.

Does this sound right and could you please clarify 3), 5), and7)?


Appreciate your help.

 

RE: USB ASIO questions, posted on July 11, 2008 at 17:02:22
fr338
Audiophile

Posts: 10
Joined: June 4, 2008
 I use a USB to spdif converter and then a NOS DAC from Promitheus.

 

RE: Alfred, where is a good place to start?, posted on July 12, 2008 at 01:52:02
alfred-kraut@arcor.de
Audiophile

Posts: 116
Joined: July 6, 2008
 hello ric
You are absolutly right: obsession is feed by the last 5 % and nothing is more boring than perfection.
but!!! i did it. there are now 6000µF (6x 1000µF of panasonic FM or Fc low ESRs)
and some styroflex cons with 3000 to 4000nF parallel to the 12+Volt at the 4 Pin connector for the CPU. All 12+ connectors are from the same source (0 Ohm messured between all 12V cables) so you can do the condensators elsewhere and you can try bigger capacitances.
Sound is smoother( Female vocals at high frequencies).

So my steps in impact on sound in order of importance:

1.cics cmp and cplay!!!at 44100Mhz
2.juli esi (after trying E-mu 1212 and usb to spdif)
3.external power for sata harddisc and fans
4.condensatormods for 12V+
4.unplugging monitor and usb sticks during playback.

here is a link to PS cables:
http://www.elektronik-kompendium.de/sites/com/0601151.htm
i think it is worth trying it, .
bye
alfred

 

cPlay 1.0 Final Released, posted on July 12, 2008 at 02:46:15
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Change Log (final release):

  1. Change labels (b19 to final)

  2. Fix for Lynx soundcards


Please REMOVE previous versions before installing cPlay 1.0 Final.

cPlay was tested using Lynx AES16-XLR. Firmware revision 25 (update23) and driver versions 14e & 16 (current). Stable performance achieved (no dropouts) doing 24/192 Dual AES output to Scarlatti DAC. Latency set to lowest of 32 samples. In cMP², Lynx soundcard may perform better with SynchroLock™ feature disabled (when using internal clock).





 

RE: cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO, posted on July 12, 2008 at 09:29:11
Doc Gaw
Reviewer

Posts: 137
Joined: February 23, 2002
 Got the Juli card up and running and it does indeed sound better than the M-Audio firewire unit previously used. Running to Lexicon 12B and Integra 9.8 pre-pro's and both sound great decoding a 24/176 stream from Juli card.

Am using Vista which doesn't have k-mixer. Would it be possible to produce cPlay or some similar program with RAM playback which could use the motherboard's SPDIF output at 24/192 or 176 without the necessity for card or ASIO, for external D/A conversion by pre-pro? Seems to me this might further drop noise and jitter as only the motherboard would be needed.

 

This gigabyte board is a pain..., posted on July 13, 2008 at 11:12:01
frennekamp@netcologne.de
Audiophile

Posts: 30
Joined: November 18, 2000
 ...so, I followed your advice an bought the e7200 and the gigabyte board...set the bios to the settings you specified...

I have a OCZ 2GB XTC 4-4-4-12 800 mhz DDR2. The Gigabyte runs it even at 200mhz / 400 mhz at only 6-6-6-18 at 2T.

The P4M900 allowed 3-3-3-9 1T, which was very audible.

I found the secret Bios-Setting of the Gigabyte which is press ctrl-F1 when you are in the main setup-page. I got the memeory running at 5-5-5-15, but after that the bios somply resets.

As well, get below 200mhz FSB is impossible. And even this setting is not always possible, the board resets quickly to 266mhz, you donÄt really have control.

Soundwise...too early to judge. It is playing now for 4 hours. I will definitely compare it to the 21800 / P4m900 at 600 mhz.

as well, when you are in advanced mode (ctrl-F1), it show which interrupts are shared in PCI1 and PCI2 and no PCI-Port seems to have an exclusive interrupt...not sure, how this can be set up in the right way though...

I asked myself which board I should try next, where I can really get the latency from my memory and use the 45nm e7200 and habe spread spectrum disabled and can heavily underclock the e7200...any hints ? Gigabyte seem not to be ideal.

 

RE: This gigabyte board is a pain..., posted on July 14, 2008 at 01:21:55
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 At 96k output, FSB of ~170MHz should be very stable (RAM @ 3-3-3-9).

At 192k output, leave FSB at 200MHz.

Can you try another RAM?

You may look into Biostar's G31 offering using AMD BIOS. Gigabyte's EG31 mobo may be interesting.

 

Mobo SPDIF output can be used via ASIO4ALL, posted on July 14, 2008 at 01:29:55
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Juli@ is excellent value and comes with quality drivers.

There's no need for anything special to use mobo output which is a PCI device (built-in soundcard). I disable this in favor of other PCI cards.

ASIO4ALL is a wrapper over non ASIO devices and works very well. I can't get it to perform beyond 48k even with mobo sound hw supporting 192k.

1st prize is getting Realtek to provide native ASIO drivers. This will be better.

 

There's an elegant design for this but unfortunately it's not feasable, posted on July 14, 2008 at 01:32:19
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Problem is a 5 minute track requires some 30+ seconds of pre-processing!

 

RE: There's an elegant design for this but unfortunately it's not feasable, posted on July 14, 2008 at 02:43:57
alfred-kraut@arcor.de
Audiophile

Posts: 116
Joined: July 6, 2008
 hello cics,
i upsampled a 16/44 to 96/24 with wavelab( Steinberg). Time is about 10 sec, for a dual core at 2Ghz for a 5 Min song. Sound is not better on my system, but soundstage is not loosing quality with 96/24 offline.
bye
alfred

 

RE: This gigabyte board is a pain..., posted on July 14, 2008 at 07:07:16
appleteapot
Audiophile

Posts: 58
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: May 21, 2008
 Similar experience here... I "migrated" from Asus Commando+E6320+HyperX 2x1G DDR2-800+Asus G7300 silent to E7200+G31+HyperX combo. I used to run Commando at 600Mhz and it was very stable. Now with E7200/GA-G31M-S2L/HyperX I used the same RAM and HDD as before. Asus Commando was P965 SLI-ready mobo designed for overclock, while G31 is a All-in-one MATX board.

(1) The motherboard wouldn't boot the at first time. My HyperX DDR2-800 RAM pair requires 1.9V, and I had to use a cheap RAM to boot up the motherboard, change RAM Voltage to 1.9 before I insert HyperX.

(2) The motherboard cannot go below 1.2GHz. I tried 6x-9x multiplier and base speed cannot go below 200Mhz

(3) The sound stage of E7200/GA-G31M-S2L at 1.2Ghz is not as good as E6320/Commando at 600Mhz, but is MUCH MUCH better than Commando at 1.2Ghz.

(4) E7200 is incredibly cool at 27 degree. However, the heat is on G31 chip and RAM and I still need a fan on the case. Even so, G31 is much cooler than Commando.

(5) I don't know whether it's related but one of my 3 HDD's crashed last night. I need to fix it later.

(6) the heat generated by Corsair HX 620 PSU are the same for both E7200/G31 or E6320/Commando - cool and quiet.


 

RE: My installation, posted on July 14, 2008 at 08:44:51
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Let me ask some clarifying f/u questions.

1) Install only the digital hardware into my physical pc (i.e., without the removable analogue board). Correct?

There is no need for the analogue board to be attached to install JULI@.

2) Convert the rca connector on the juli board with a bnc adapter. Then use a bnc cable from the juli board to my dac. Correct?

I assume you are handy with a soldering iron and wire strippers. Get a female BNC with SOLDERABLE ends, not crimp. Look at DIGIKEY. I am using an AMPHENOL product. Get 75 ohms impedance. Correspondingly, use a digital cable with BNC's. I like the relatively inexpensive STEREOVOX which comes with BNCs and RCA adaptors, if you insist on using them. But, for these frequencies BNCs are what works best. I hope you have a BNC input jack on your DAC. Of course, cics prefers TOSLINK. I have no way of trying this out, so it is BNCs for me.

3)Download the new .979 drivers (from where?) and put them somewhere accesible (on desktop). Correct?

http://download.esi-audio.com/?w=esi&p=6&g=1&l=en
choose the first item on the list.
DESKTOP or USB memory stick, whichever you prefer.

4) Load the juli cd and only install the control panel (first item) but continue the installation by pointing to the new drivers via browse. Correct?

As written. Most likely the computer will recognize there is something new at turn on. Have the CD in place. Do not "search the internet for latest drivers" - let it do the automatic install, as recommended, for the "control panel".

5) Then I click something to open (is this part of the install process?) and the control panel opens. Correct?

The control panel will not appear until the whole porcess has been done.
After installing the drivers for the control panel, you should be prompted to install the second part of JULI@. Remove the CD before selecting anything. I am assuming you will have the .979 drivers on a USB stick or on your DESKTOP. Then start by not having the computer look for latest drivers on the internet. THEN, when it prompts for where to look, select YOU picking where to look, and then using the BROWSE button select where you have placed the drivers. When you get to the right place, you will then be allowed to proceed. This will make sense when you actually do this. I am going from memory, but this will make sense when you get to this point.

6)Verify .979 then select latency.

from CONFIGURATION, choose 48. Then save, just to be sure. Name the file: theob!

7)This one has me confused 'go into cplay or juli to select channels 3,4'?

cPLAY, either outside of cMP or within. I do it before going into cMP. But, I am sure one can do it either way. Of course, within cMP you must select a music file, which then will engage cPLAY. From there, either way, you hit the cPLAY button on the bottom right hand corner to make this selection.

8) Begin the breakin process.

Yes, just leave it playing music at any volume you choose. That way when you get a chance to listen seriously it will be sounding better. I think it improves steadily for the first week and then it is as good as it will be.

 

RE: My installation, posted on July 14, 2008 at 09:23:45
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 thank you, very precise and clear.

 

Is there any advantage to installing this w/o Lynx card?, posted on July 14, 2008 at 09:31:53
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

From what I see there is most likely no reason to do this unless one is using the Lynx card? Or should it be done anyway?

I do think I like the single memory better. I do need to go back and forth to make an assertion, but at this point there seems to be added naturalness, less electrical sound. Of course, I worry that I WANT it to sound better; an audio placebo. I guess as long as I can convince myself of this I might as well enjoy it until ...

My CPU voltage is lower than what you show on your cpuz "photos". I figure this is good? I am using MAX BATTERY power

THANKS,

Rick McInnis

 

Warning: Anybody thinking AMD - don't buy Biostar A690G board., posted on July 14, 2008 at 10:48:15
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 7181
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 My current setup is cics' transport (no cMP, no cPlay) using e2140 and Biostar P4M900 mobo, with Winamp + Otachan ASIO (recompiled to take advantage of SSSE3) as player. Just for fun, decided to check out what AMD setup can do and bought 4050e CPU and Biostar A690G mobo.

A690G WOULD BE an excellent board - supports multiplier and core voltage adjustments (I dropped it to 5x and 0.75V respectively, and system is stable), and all kinds of memory timings. There's only one big BUT(t):

Damn thing is unable to retain some of memory timings, namely Tcas, Tras, Trc. You'll change them, and it will still keep the defaults, which by the way are ridiculous 5, 18, 26 respectively. Funny enough, it retains all other memory timings. Needless to say, updating BIOS didn't help.

So, A690G goes back, and I will probably try A740G in place of it, which has different BIOS (AMI). One thing I noticed about AMD setup is how much cooler it is compared to e2140/P4M900, including memory (the same one stick of Kingston HyperX 1 Gb). On the other hand, AMD is in inherent disadvantage in that it only supports SSE3 (no SSSE3, no SSE4) - it really made audible difference, when I compared different ASIO builds.

 

RE: My installation, posted on July 14, 2008 at 12:40:23
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Got everything installed including hardware, panel and drivers; reset my audio windows panel, reset cplay but somehow I got the 1.21 version of the juli driver installed. Question how do I replace this with the .979 driver? I do have the .979 driver on my desktop but I guess I blew it during installation. I did not modify my break out cable so I can only get 176 out to the Benchmark. But right out of the shoot it sounds good. But I do want the other driver. Appreciate any help.

 

RE: My installation, posted on July 14, 2008 at 13:15:06
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 You must have installed both sets of drivers from the CD. That is the only way you could have done this.

Go to SOUNDS & AUDIO DEVICES within CONTROL PANEL - then to HARDWARE, then to "the other" JULI@ thing (NOT control panel) I am not at home so I caanot look at the exact thing. Go to the PROPERTIES for that device and then to DRIVERS, then to UPDATE DRIVERS. It should ask you the same questions as during the intial install. This time make sure you do not have the CD in the drawer. No way you can screw up if it is not there.

An alternative would be to delete those drivers (from the "place" mentioned above) and then go to ADD HARDWARE in CONTROL PANEL and go through its process. It will attempt to find the hardware, but most likely will not, so you answer a few questions, pick MULTIMEDIA SOND CONTROLLER when you get asked that, that is if it does not find JULI@, and go from there. Be sure to carefully read what it asks you before picking a choice and you should get it installed eventually.

I prefer the second method. It works better for me.

There is always the choice of deleting both sets of drivers in SOUNDS & AUDIO DEVICES/HARDWARE/DRIVERS and starting over completely.

It took me a few attempts before I got it right, too.

Hope this is of use.

Rick McInnis

 

RE: My installation, posted on July 14, 2008 at 13:54:10
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 thanks

 

Bummer I had a crash, lost juli control panel and juli driver 1.2, posted on July 14, 2008 at 14:22:55
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 So now I've got the hardware installed but nothing works. How do I reinstall w/o taking the hardware out?

 

RE: Bummer I had a crash, lost juli control panel and juli driver 1.2, posted on July 14, 2008 at 14:51:22
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Got it back it up. But I don't see the control panel for juli. Also when I gto the computer control panel I don't see juli at all, but its working fine @ 176 sampling rate, -145 db src. And it sounds great. But now I'm confused why I don't see juli opn the task bar or in my control panel.

 

RE: Bummer I had a crash, lost juli control panel and juli driver 1.2, posted on July 14, 2008 at 14:53:53
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Theo,

It will do that.

It should show up on a re-start.

Let me know,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: Bummer I had a crash, lost juli control panel and juli driver 1.2, posted on July 14, 2008 at 15:03:12
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 yes it came back up plus I got .979 working. Whew!!!! Thanks for all your help.

 

RE: cPlay 1.0 Final Released, posted on July 14, 2008 at 17:28:32
n_vincent
Audiophile

Posts: 34
Joined: November 27, 2007
 CICS,

I'm currently running my cmp setup with a rme hdsp32 and thinking of going to a lynx aes (or rme hdsp aes) for finding my dcs delius in dual aes mode. Does the improvement of going from rme hdsp 32 at 96 khz to lynx aes at 192 in dual aes mode will be very significative ?

Why did you not go for the lynx aes (pci bus) and not the pci express one ?

Nicolas from Paris

 

RE: cPlay 1.0 Final Released, posted on July 14, 2008 at 19:42:04
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 I don't believe from emails with him cics has had much experience with the Lynx yet. I have had more. Dual aes comprising 192 does sound audibly better than single sending 96. Cics has in mind having dual aes of Lynx comprising 384 by doubling 192 output. I have my doubts that this will make much of an improvement with current sources starting at 44.1 or 96.

The Lynx pci express card is brand new so few have experience with it, but I would assume it would be comparable to the pci card. It uses the same drivers, etc.

 

RE: Bummer I had a crash, lost juli control panel and juli driver 1.2, posted on July 14, 2008 at 19:45:20
fr338
Audiophile

Posts: 10
Joined: June 4, 2008
 theob,

So is it better than USB connection ?

 

RE: cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO, posted on July 14, 2008 at 20:47:11
w.rade
Audiophile

Posts: 7
Joined: July 7, 2008
 Hello everybody. Since a few years I am using PC for listening to music. Some time ago I build a PC with a mobile cpu and the AOpen i855GMEm-LFS motherboard. I am just starting to use cmp and can only say "it's absolutetly amazing". Now with cmp and cplayer I encounter a strange problem. I have no problem, opening wav-files. The first days I could sometimes get cuefiles started, sometimes not. Now cplay crashes everytime, I try to open a cuefile, but it's not because of the size (I have 1 GB). There is no fault reported in the log, but I loose connection with the emu-soundcard. The player processes wav-files after the crash but there is nothing happening on the emu patch-mix and of course nothing to hear. Only after a restart of the PC I can at least listen to wav. Maybe someone can relate to it? By the way. I am from germany and happy to see, that there are more people heading for this way. I am just a music lover and thrilled by what I read in this cmp-thread. Thanks to cics for his approach and commitment. Walter

 

Don't suspend SVCHOST and LSASS (in CMP) with EMU cards, posted on July 15, 2008 at 02:37:23
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 When this happens, in Process Explorer you'll see cPlay.exe - just kill it to return to cMP.

Unfortunately, EMU drivers come with a great deal of bloat causing indefinite waits / locks. cPlay tries to accommodate this with timer delays - this is only required for EMU and no other soundcard.

For example, go to Device Manager > View > Show Hidden Devices > Non Plug and Play devices. You should see about 15 additional devices from EMU / Creative. This is very bad design and here's the bad news: to remove it needs a new windows install.

My suggestion is to rather go with another soundcard but this would need a Windows reinstall.

 

Allow burn-in for about 200-300 hours at default FSB. Then try underclocking., posted on July 15, 2008 at 02:43:22
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Also try Gigabyte support.

I wanted some BIOS changes and I've received an experimental BIOS release (F6x) which allows for Spread Spectrum to be disabled. There's one more BIOS change I need... didn't expect this great service.

 

Using Lynx AES16-XLR Dual AES output at 192k, posted on July 15, 2008 at 02:58:57
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Card is still burning-in. I'm also waiting for a new Gigabyte mobo before installing in reference system. Not going to 384k at all - 192k is perfect.

Initial testing shows promise using headphones from Scarlatti outputs. Galvanic isolation is lost but 192k at 145db SNR is a big benefit. Lynx h/w and drivers seems very robust and can handle 192k output at 32 samples latency - the best I've seen! I'm currently running this 24x7 without any problems.

As to PCIe - not sure how this would handle low latencies as PCIe is better used with large payloads and fewer transactions. Still new and need to see more reviews.

 

RE: Is there any advantage to installing this w/o Lynx card?, posted on July 15, 2008 at 03:08:05
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Final release fixes an issue with Lynx drivers. No sonic benefit.

What voltage are you getting with 24/192 output? It should be higher then 1.120V (closer to 1.184V).

 

RE: Is there any advantage to installing this w/o Lynx card?, posted on July 15, 2008 at 03:20:17
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I installed a juli card uccessfully yesterday and played the system for 4 hours. This morning cplay boots up loads a file and diagnostics seem ok but it doesn't play. It just sits there w/o moving the clock and no sound.

 

RE: Is there any advantage to installing this w/o Lynx card?, posted on July 15, 2008 at 03:27:59
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Also test with foobar to see if soundcard is fully operational.

What happens when you hit pause/play button?

 

RE: Is there any advantage to installing this w/o Lynx card?, posted on July 15, 2008 at 03:38:48
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 After I reboot, the system asks me if I want to run a file (for juli), it must be a driver or something because after I run it loads everything is back to normal.

 

RE: Is there any advantage to installing this w/o Lynx card?, posted on July 15, 2008 at 03:43:39
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Could it be possible that my .979 driver is only on the desktop and not where its supposed to be (where is that btw?). Sould the driver be placed in another folder?

 

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