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cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player

41.183.0.21
Posted on December 30, 2007 at 05:42:01
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
cMP

The open source high-end Memory Player

December 2007

Music delivery is perfected. cMP (cics Memory Player) delivers memory playback (without RAMDisk or other utilities) thereby eliminating disk interference during playback.

In creating cMP, its critical objective was the implementation of fundamental designs that:

  1. Remove disk traffic interference during playback without having the inconvenience of manually loading files into a virtual RAM drive, etc..
  2. Ensure time critical sample delivery to the external DAC. Streaming of samples from precision upsampled (to 24/96) sound buffers to the soundcard must be fast, lean and mean! There's no room for any bottlenecks or overheads here, otherwise we risk increasing jitter and compromise Bit Transparency.
  3. Provide better power supply and remove the need for a ferrite core on the mouse connection.
  4. Provide flexibility to choose any player (Foobar2000, Winamp etc.).
  5. Further minimize the Windows footprint to that more optimal than XP's Embedded SP2 operating system as used in large scale commercial applications. This provides the foundation for the 2nd design goal.
  6. Offer a CD/DVD-ROM drive without impacting sound quality.
  7. Offer proper remote usability as locating that mouse cursor from a distance is cumbersome.
  8. Contain costs but also allow for a complete elegant one box solution.

Such designs in theory should render a stunning sonic experience. Its implementation however was a massive challenge. Did this theory meet the sonic expectations? Yes as evidenced in cMP's bit perfect performance and ultra low jitter.

How does it sound? The most descriptive word that comes to mind is emotional. cMP's sonic purity is truly profound. It grips those musical lines across any genre with remarkable precision. Soundstage improves, there's better layering and even more ambient information. Bass is tighter, with natural vocals & instruments.

FRONT



BACK



More pictures and screenshots are available from the cMP documentation link provided below.

FEEDBACK

Pre-release testing by music lovers located all over the world yielded further insight and perfection of cMP.

  • A music lover based in the US with limited or no computer training:

    This has been a great way to learn about computers in addition to making something very useful for enjoying music.

    Compared to my ###### (read expensive high-end traditional CD transport), even with some tweaking and learning left to do, this sounds much better. Dynamic, yet relaxed (effortless?).

    I started listening last night at 7:00 and had to force myself to go to bed at twelve. Amazing spaciousness. It is truly getting close to GREAT analog and is much better than average analog already. It is simply amazing.

    I found your instructions easy to follow ONCE I understood what I was being told to do. To repeat, I have never done anything like this before, so your instructions were clear without resorting to "hand holding". I think the process was easier than you warned. I kept saying to myself, "that wasn't so bad!"

    After cMP:

    My only audio friends are very analogue-centric. Sometime in January I am going to have them over to audition the cMP. I think they are going to be amazed. Of course, I am confident that JULI@ is going to be the icing on the cake. If this takes the whole thing another step closer I think they will be grateful that one can enjoy listening to CD's as much as LP's. Of course, in many ways your approach does things even LP's cannot do. It is becoming a toss-up, but the best kind; one can enjoy either one equally well!

  • A music lover based in Europe with more than 2000 CDs:

    the quality of sound reproduction is quite amazing. My motivation for building was that I am not wealthy and could never dream of, let alone buy, a high-end CD player. Even this project was considerably more than I could properly afford and I began it with some trepidation. But it's been well worth it.

    After cMP:

    I spent several hours last night testing the latest cMP. I did several A/B runs with cMP on the one hand and Foobar launched via old batch files and reading direct from disk on the other. There is no doubt in my mind that the sound using cMP is a significant improvement even with my modest setup.

    The quality is quite stunning, significantly better than previous. (My partner agrees with this - she's no audio junkie but she is an informed music lover.)

  • A music lover based in Australia:

    I have been wanting to relay to you my own experience with your methods and give you some feedback . So far, I have found your approach produces very good results so I must convey to you my thanks and appreciation. At some point soon I will formalise my thoughts and send them to you or post them. I believe what you have done has become an excellent resource/asset to people interested in PC Audio.


FEATURES

  1. Disk traffic interference during playback is eliminated. Advanced RAM playback is based on available physical RAM (as reported by Task Manager or Process Explorer). This means up to 4GB (XP's limit) can be used allowing for 24/192 RAM playback. Recommendation is to use 1GB RAM (which yields available physical RAM of ~830MB - enough for any CD at 16/44.1). cMP achieves memory playback via the system cache and not through a simulated virtual drive. This approach removes Windows disk I/O overheads (irrespective of whether disk is physical or virtual) hence, it's more optimal.

  2. Extensive Windows & Player (Foobar2000 or other) optimizations yielding much lower jitter and bit perfect delivery. System level optimizations are done at runtime (which cannot be achieved using .bat files and utilities like Process Explorer). cMP is designed to work with 32 CPU cores!

  3. Open architecture. cMP allows for any player to be used: Foobar2000, XXHighEnd, Winamp etc. (player just needs to handle .cue files like foobar2000 otherwise play entire .wav). Any ripper software can be used (as long as it conforms to .cue single file standard like those created by EAC). Additional flexibility is provided, for example use cMP to drive your HTPC playing any movie from any genre (a .cue file for each .iso file is needed).

  4. All .cue files are processed by cMP which means the player focuses only on playing the CD. In Foobar2000, the album list control component is not needed. In techno speak this is called separation of concerns.

  5. Power delivery to the mobo is improved by further reducing interference. The need for a ferrite core is removed.

  6. Full function remote control using a wireless mouse is achieved. Your entire library can be navigated: play any CD, eject it, jump to any track or change volume. This is achieved using just ONE mouse button: the Wheel! Use the mouse as a normal one (left-click) or hold it in your hand (like a remote control) and wheel away using your thumb. Of course other buttons are used for more convenience. There's no need to find that tiny mouse cursor and left click! (You can still do this if needed).

  7. Your entire library that you so diligently ripped is fully compatible with cMP. No proprietary / lock-in stuff here which forces you to re-rip. Just point cMP to your music folders containing .cue and .wav files (or flac or other). cMP supports any content file as long as cue files are defined for them. For flac content files, the known EAC bug of adding an additional .flac suffix to the content file's name must be removed (otherwise your cue's content file directive will not be found).

  8. CD/DVD-ROM drive is implemented without compromising playback quality. For the purist, this can be unplugged without opening computer or rebooting.

Bottom line: cMP is a (one box) highly advanced memory player that's easy to setup and use. cMP's core strength lies in newly developed operating system software components (built in c/c++) that uses XP SP 2 as a foundation. Windows Explorer is done away with while cMP takes over and more. Bit perfect delivery is achieved yielding an ultra high resolution of more than 23.5 bits (a limitation in measuring instruments prevents measuring cMP's perfect resolution). DAC's have yet to achieve this resolution (as a minimum of 141db SNR is needed)! For cMP's bit perfect measurements, see (Bit Perfect Measurement & Analysis ).


GETTING STARTED

Visit cicsMemoryPlayer.com where you'll find detailed easy to follow instructions and much more.

Ensuring clean AC power delivery to equipment is very important. For DAC, pre-amp and amplifiers, use a dedicated AC circuit. For source equipment, use another AC circuit as this is where cMP's main PSU should be powered from. Use another less important AC circuit for powering cMP's 2nd dirty power inlet. Use of quality power cords and line conditioners is recommended.


Special thanks to those that provided such brilliant feedback and suggestions during pre-release testing. cMP's software is at version 1.0b as more feedback is desired. Your input, insights, criticisms, experiences and suggestions all help.

Thank you.

 

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    ...
RE: Certainly!, posted on December 12, 2010 at 07:41:11
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Your suggested design is what I had in mind. Its also very important to have 2 AC inlets (one for P24 and the other for P4 & peripherals).

How do we get this manufactured?

 

RE: Linear PSU again: help needed, posted on December 12, 2010 at 08:10:22
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Hi cics!
"Would this document replace the current one available for download on cMP² site?" - Yes, make it please.
I have not possibility to make this psu even in the limited quantities unfortunately. I'm not the manufacturer, audiophilia is my hobby :).
Paul Hynes's PSU (http://www.hifizine.com/2010/06/paul-hynes-design/) is very qualitative device, but it is necessary to consider that this device was made by request of my compatriot Murat for power supply of Adnaco (http://www.adnaco.com/products/s1/) and consequently has only +3.3V, +5V, +12V and -12V (pwr_ok and 5VSB are absent).

Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: Linear PSU again: help needed, posted on December 12, 2010 at 08:31:31
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Good Bibo!
"3 internal cables for P24, P4 and Peripherals." - I would make so: first cable (6 wires) for P24 (+3.3, +5, +12, 5VSB, ground - separate low-power psu for 5VSB and pwr_ok, delay board for pwr_ok is in the PC case, for example near the P24 socket), second cable (same, 6 wires) for P4 (+12, ground) and Peripherals (+3.3, +12, ground) and third cable for Juli/Lynx AES16/lynx Two (22) w/o analog (+5, ground).
Connectors are Neutrik.
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: Linear PSU again: help needed, posted on December 12, 2010 at 10:08:37
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 cics,

Please let us know when Mihalov's new document is on your cMP website... I'm not interested in signing up to Rapidshare and giving them my email address to get this.

THANKS!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: Certainly!, posted on December 12, 2010 at 10:36:19
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 dear forum,

getting a linear power supply into manufacture is not the problem...

there are numerous specialist companies here in germany doing all sorts of customized PSUs.
-even in small numbers.
the big question is how many confirmed orders we can get together.

I would be happy to forward a request on a one-box solution, but we seriously need to fix a specific design on such a project.

if the experts can formulate and write the "receipt", and we can do an estimate on the numbers, I shall be very happy to request a price from different manufacturers.

kind regards



Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: Linear PSU again: help needed, posted on December 12, 2010 at 10:54:07
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 I normally have the same problem with Rapidshare, but if you use a program like JDownloader it's fine - no signing up.

 

Some additional thoughts on a separate set of PSU's for your cMP... (Of course, long!), posted on December 12, 2010 at 11:47:58
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 First, I think AMB's Sigma regulated PSU looks like a very good choice as the main building block of a home-built cMP power supply. I think that it will be an upgrade over the garden variety LM317-type regulators (I use the better & higher current LT1085 in some places and the better LT3080 in others) and may approach a good shunt supply like the Salas high-current shunts and possibly even Paul Hynes regs.

That brings up a question... You said you'd be doing "an external box with the 3 PSUs... 3 ext. cables... 3 internal cables for P24, P4 and Peripherals."

There are at a minimum 6 different voltages for a cMP using the Zalman case:

- ATX-20/24 (P24) 3.3v/5v (both power and control voltages)/12v

- P4 12v

- peripherals HDD & USB 5v / screen 12v

Are you planning to use a separate transformer for each voltage, or combine some using transformers with multiple secondaries? Also are you planning to use a Sigma for each voltage or use lesser regulators for the less-critical voltages?

My setup uses separate power supplies with separate transformers for each voltage, only sharing one between the 12v screen and the 5v USB. If I were trying to minimize the number of tranformers while maximizing the sonic quality & benefits, from my experience, I'd suggest the following combination of PSU's & regulators:

8v-11v PSU -> 5v Sigma regulator -> ATX-20/24 (P24) 5v (both power & control voltages)

14v-19v PSU -> 12v LT1085 regulator -> ATX-20/24 (P24) 12v -> 3.3v LT1085 regulator -> ATX-20/24 (P24) 3.3v (large voltage drop here, need a significant heatsink)

14v-19v PSU -> 12v Sigma regulator -> P4 12v

8v-11v PSU -> 5v LT1085 regulator -> HDD

14v-19v PSU -> 12v LT1085 regulator -> Zalman screen 12v -> 5v LT1085 regulator -> USB header power (for mouse & touchscreen)

If you wanted to use multiple-secondary transformers for the supplies, the minimum number I'd suggest you consider is three... one for the ATX-20/24 (P24), one for the P4, and another for the peripherals. But I believe that using 5 transformers as I suggested above will sound better (and using 7 as I currently do will be even better!).

Then to your questions about grounding and wiring, each PSU will have a ground point and that should be taken to the output connector for that power line so that the motherboard becomes the star ground point for everything. (I did just realized that I deviated from that in my 5v HDD supply... It reaches ground through the data connection for the HDD. I'll have to try grounding it to the motherboard & seeing if that makes a sonic difference!)

That also provides a method to help 'reject various interferences'. One common way to do this is by pairing a voltage connection with it's corresponding ground in a twisted pair or a braid. I did this as follows with my power supplies (note that I only used the 20-pin version of the ATX-20/24 connector and don't see any reason or recommend connecting up the other 4 pins):





ATX-20 5v - One set of 5v lines from the regulator to pins 19 & 20 in a 4-cross braid with ground line pins 16 & 17, another set of 5v lines from the regulator to pins 4 & 6 in a separate 4-cross braid with ground line pins 5 & 15

ATX-20 12v - 12v line from the regulator to pin 10 in a twisted pair with ground line pin 7

ATX-20 3.3v - 3.3v line from the regulator to pins 1, 2, & 11 (tied together at the plug) in a twisted pair with ground line pin 3

ATX-20 5vSB & PWR_OK - 5vSB directly from the 5v regulator, PWR_OK from a switch in a 3-braid with ground pin 13

Note that on the ATX-20, I did not connect pins 12 (-12v) 14 (5v PWR_ON#), and 18 (-5v)





P4 - 4-cross braid using the two 12v lines from the regulator and the two ground lines

On the 5v HDD, 12v screen, and 5v USB, I just used a twisted pair on each.

This will increase the number of connecting wires you have to use, but provide for better suppression and rejection of interference

Another thing to do to reduce interference transmission is to add bypass capacitors at each plug. I have them currently at the ATX-20 & the P4 and need to add them to the 5v HDD, 12v screen, and 5v USB plugs... see the picture of my supply above.

Then see here for additional suggestions for wire and connectors: http://www.altavistaaudio.com/Umbilical.html . While you wouldn't have to use the wires he recommends, these are two examples of wire that would be better than the garden-variety copper in vinyl insulation. Also, the Hirose connectors he uses look very good and are readily available at both Digikey and Mouser in a number of pin configurations. His comments also echo those of some others on this thread who have found sound quality improvements by using good connecting wires. I haven't done this in mine yet, but plan to with my next big-rebuild.

Then to your questions about the 5v PWR_OK, 5v PS_ON#, 5vSB, turn on sequencing & relays. As I said above, you can connect the 5vSB to the output of your 5v regulator and the 5v PWR_OK to the same place through an on-off toggle switch. You don't need to connect the PS_ON# at all. And you didn't ask this, but to make it all work, you do need a power-on switch connected to the power header on the motherboard. This is nothing fancy, I just use a momentary-on switch for this.

Then to turn on the computer, do the following:

1st - plug-in or turn-on the dirty supplies (P4 12v, HDD 5v, Screen 12v, USB 5v)

2nd - plug-in or turn-on the remaining supplies (ATX-20/24/P24 3.3v, 5v, 12v, & 5vSB)

3rd - press the momentary-contact power-on switch connected to the power header on the motherboard

4th - flip the switch to provide 5v to the PWR_OK connection

This will work for the GA-G31M-S2L motherboard.

If you have a GA-G31M-ES2L board, you also need to provide -12v at startup. This can be done with a 9v battery and can be turned off after the motherboard starts booting.

If you have a GA-EG45M-UD2H board, you have to wait 8-12 seconds after flipping the switch for the PWR_OK, then switch off the PWR_OK for 1-2 seconds, then switch it back on.

I am not sure what works for the GA-EG55M-UD2H board as I don't have one yet, but based on other's comments, I suspect that the sequence for the GA-G31M-S2L will work ok on it.

As you can see from this, no relays are needed at all.

Finally, a few more comments...

First, I use a separate 5v supply with a small transformer to provide power to the 5vSB & PWR_ON connections. This was a small, but noticable improvement over taking it from the main 5v connection.

Second, I'd strongly recommend using John Swenson's raw DC supply for computers as mentioned here: http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=82140

He uses a choke filter, a snubber, and careful design to reduce the amount of noise generated in the supply and also fed back to the power line. I have not done this on my supply yet as I don't have room because it's designed to fit inside of the Zalman case, but when I re-do it in a larger enclosure, I will do it then.

Finally, cics had repeated his advice to use separate AC cords & circuits for the base ATX-20/24 (P24) supplies and the dirty supplys... P4, HDD, USB, and screen. This does make a difference and I strongly echo his advice.

All I can think to add for now!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

Great, THANKS! (NT), posted on December 12, 2010 at 11:51:44
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 ...
Everything matters!

 

RE: Linear PSU again: help needed, posted on December 12, 2010 at 12:04:55
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Mihaylov,

I am not sure I can agree with your suggestion.
I do not have a Juli@ and my Lynx card would require triple voltage (+5V, +12V, -12V), so I am not going to power for it separetly but through the board.

My idea was to have:
Cable no.3 - (+5V, +12V, ground) for HD, USB, int. LCD + extra device
Cable no.2 - (+12V, ground) for CPU/P4
Cable no.1 - (+3.3V, +5V, +12V, -12V, 5VSB, ground) for mainboard/P24

You suggest to have "separate low-power psu for 5VSB and pwr_ok, delay board for pwr_ok is in the PC case, for example near the P24 socket", any particular reason?
I was thinking to keep everything together, inside the power box.

You also suggest Neutrik connectors. I think I am going to use different power connectors with screw rings which are often used for double frame high-end audio geare.

All transformers are custom made.

 

RE: Certainly!, posted on December 12, 2010 at 12:06:18
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 cics,
I was actually planning to have three power cords, but to make a simpler design I am going to have only two.

 

RE: Linear PSU again: help needed, posted on December 12, 2010 at 13:19:19
gene_
Audiophile

Posts: 39
Location: South London
Joined: November 22, 2009



Hi guys,
Today, just hours ago i made huge step forward in my cMP set up.
Ones again -power supply ! I use low profile computer case and have not enough
space for everething i want to put in , so in time my MoBo died, i change design. Cut off some bottom part of a case to provide access to back side of MoBo.
First, i follow JackWrong way , but just install small electrolit cap on open part of MoBo and move some of my caps on back of moBo . It was posible use short wire 30-35 mm longfor big caps.
Difficalt to say about improvment , becouse I start to use Buffalo DAC and tube Buffer, belived it was also on part of cMP.
Access to back of Mobo ,give me ability to mesure by my basic PC Oscilloscope what
i got . I find difference 2-3 fold in mvolt on deferent end of 35mm wire.
So , using strip of PCB board as a wire (should be square size or so, but not narrow)
I connect my caps to Mobo.
Result- excellent. Sound more clean, bass more controlled,mach better resolution on low level. I still not mesured what I got by Oscilloscope, planned make same approch
for CPU +12volt and added small NOS cap all around, will see what happen.
Gene.



 

RE: Linear PSU again: help needed, posted on December 12, 2010 at 13:59:06
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 OK. But I think it would be acceptable to unite cables no.3 and no.2.
Delay circuit for pwr_ok works from system board's PS_ON input signal and so it's useful to place it near P24 socket.

Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: Linear PSU again: help needed, posted on December 12, 2010 at 14:08:54
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Hi Gene!
It's interesting but photo is small and dark :(
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: Linear PSU again: help needed, posted on December 12, 2010 at 14:52:19
gene_
Audiophile

Posts: 39
Location: South London
Joined: November 22, 2009



will be sent tommorow better, this ones just scaled.

 

What specs should such a PSU have?, posted on December 12, 2010 at 16:40:40
hfavandepas
 Hi Playmate,

That would be great idea.
But do we know what too order? What is needed? I think it is a pitfall when telling a PSU manufacturer how too put together a PSU in terms of: how to build it and what too put in.

May be is it better too only identify what parameters accurately describe the quality of the power that is needed for an cMP setup.

I came too this approach after reading this article from mr Rob Reeder (senior converter applications engineer at Analog Devices). He argues: “ Engineers commonly feel that a switching power supply can degrade the performance of an A/D converter, leading them to choose a low dropout (LDO) linear regulator over a switcher, but this percep¬tion isn’t entirely true.”
See: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/rarely_asked_questions/RAQ_tamingADC.pdf

So, do we absolutely need an all linear PSU? May be a mixed-mode PSU with Linear Final Regulation is also sufficient for a cMP setup. Who knows?

What specs should a PSU for a cMP setup have?

 

RE: Some additional thoughts on a separate set of PSU's for your cMP... (Of course, long!), posted on December 12, 2010 at 22:44:31
audiodan@tiscali.it
Audiophile

Posts: 108
Location: Cagliari - Sardinia
Joined: July 7, 2009
 WOW!!
This is'nt a response, this is a treatise!
Thx a lot Greg.
I need to study it with care, but my intention is to do a similar thing.
And yes, I think to use a toroidal to each different board.
Now I get 5 sigma but i must to decide how many single voltage I must use and for what.
But I'vnt clear another point, it could be trivial but not so clear for me:
from each board go out a couple of positive/ negative wire.
For P 24 connector where I'll connect the negative ones? With your order? all togheter?
Daniele

 

THX to all but new problem rises, posted on December 12, 2010 at 23:17:31
audiodan@tiscali.it
Audiophile

Posts: 108
Location: Cagliari - Sardinia
Joined: July 7, 2009
 Hi all
thx a lot to all but yesterday I've spent evening and part of the night with two mobo that doesn't start.
My system now in use, an i3 540+ GB H57M USBÂŁ, was downvolted two days ago to 0.650V and was playng very well.
Yesterday, at the start, I was thinking that voltage was too low for a cold start and a shortcut of cmos pins could be enough.
No, from this moment mobo only blinks all leds and turnoff contonuosly, like when you don't current to CPU.
So I've tried a miniITX GB H55NUSB3 and, when I undervolting it ( to 0.775) same fenomenon occours.
So I get two mobo dead.
Could someone give me an explanations?
Could undervoltig damages mobo or/and CPU?
It seems strange to me..........

 

RE: Linear PSU again: help needed, posted on December 13, 2010 at 00:07:04
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 When you say ""separate low-power psu for 5VSB and pwr_ok", was this in your PDF design plan?
What kind of low-power psu?
Thanks

 

RE: Some additional thoughts on a separate set of PSU's for your cMP... (Of course, long!), posted on December 13, 2010 at 05:25:37
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Greg,

When you say "I use a separate 5v supply with a small transformer to provide power to the 5vSB & PWR_ON connections.", what kind of supply and tranformer are required?

 

RE: Some additional thoughts on a separate set of PSU's for your cMP... (Of course, long!), posted on December 13, 2010 at 07:09:03
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Daniele

Welcome. I hope it helps.

With 5 Sigma regulators, I'd suggest using them for the following voltages:

ATX-20 3.3v, 5v, 12v (3 Sigmas)

P4 12v (1 Sigma)

HDD/USB 5v (1 Sigma)

My reason for picking these voltages is that these are ones that will have a high amount of noise fed back to the regulator and the Sigma should do a pretty good job of dealing with this noise.

If you use separate supplies for the 5vSB & PWR_ON and for the 5v USB, no reason to use Sigmas, just go with LT1085/LT1083/LT317/LM317-type regulators.

I suspect, but do not have evidence, that it will sound better to have a separate power supply feeding the 5V USB than to use the same one for both the HDD and USB. But it's easier to start with just one and add another later.

As for where to connect the negative wires from each Sigma, this would be to the ground wire of the corresponding power connector. Let me revise what I said above to try and make it clearer:

ATX-20 5v - Two sets of 4 wires coming from the 5v regulator. One set is made up of a pair of wires taking the 5v positive to ATX-20 connector pins 19 & 20 and these are braided 4-cross with a pair of wires taking the 5v ground/negative to the ATX-20 connector pins 16 & 17. The other set is made up of a pair of wires taking the 5v positive to ATX-20 connector pins 4 & 6 and these are braided 4-cross with a pair of wires taking the 5v ground/negative to the ATX-20 connector pins 5 & 15. While both of these sets connect to the specified various pins on the ATX-20 connector at the motherboard, they all come together and are connected in parallel at the 5v regulator output at either the 5v positive or negative connections.

ATX-20 12v - One twisted pair of wires coming from the 12v regulator, made up of a 12v positive wire from the regulator to ATX-20 connector pin 10 twisted with a ground/negative wire from the regulator to ATX-20 connector pin 7.

ATX-20 3.3v - One twisted pair of wires coming from the 3.3v regulator, made up of a 3.3v positive wire from the regulator to ATX-20 connector pins 1, 2, & 11 (all tied together at the connector) twisted with a ground/negative wire from the regulator to ATX-20 connector pin 3

P4 12v - One set of 4 wires coming from the 12v regulator, made up of a pair of wires taking the 5v regulator's positive to the P4 positive (yellow) wires and these are braided 4-cross with a pair of wires taking the 5v regulator's ground/negative to the P4 ground (black) wires.

I really need to draw a picture... Sorry, I'm generally very bad about that. I'll see what I can do and post this week. I can also post instructions for making the 4-cross braids, if you need that.
Everything matters!

 

Remove the CMOS battery for a few hours, posted on December 13, 2010 at 08:09:18
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 and I suspect all will be fine.

For all of their virtues these GIGABYTE boards are sensitive.

I find mine will revert to default BIOS with clumsy MOUSE commands.

Usually shorting the pins is enough but occasionally one has to remove the battery. To be safe wait an hour if not more.

I just received the latest GIGABYTE board - H55M-S2V - hoping it will be more stable. It would not hurt if it sounds a little better, too.

Bye,

 

Gigabyte H55M-S2V - has anyone looked at this?, posted on December 13, 2010 at 12:19:29
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Got one since I thought my recommended Gigabyte board had died.

This one is much simpler.

Only two memory slots/No IDE connector/No Floppy connector.

Seems like it could be interesting for cMP.

Does not have the 3 ounces copper plating on the PCB. Looks like it has the same brand and type of capacitors.

When I looked at the owner's manual it shows the same choices for BIOS. Not sure if SPREAD SPECTRUM disabling is available. Will have to set it up to find that out.

http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3568#ov

 

RE: Some additional thoughts on a separate set of PSU's for your cMP... (Of course, long!), posted on December 13, 2010 at 18:36:07
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Bibo,

It was a nothing-too-special quick & dirty supply I did when I realized that the reason my system was cutting off at random with the linear supply was due to my use of a 9v battery to supply the 5vSB & PWR_ON voltages and turning them off after the motherboard had booted. It would run for awhile without these voltages, but would always cut out at some point, sometimes even days later.

It was an afternoon project using a transformer (with a center-tapped secondary) scrounged from an old linear wall-wart, a couple of MSR860 diodes, an LM340-5 regulator chip, and a couple of caps (pretty good quality ones... this proved to be audible, to my surprise!).

The 5v output is fed directly to the 5vSB & via a switch to the PWR_ON for the turn-on exercises. I did a 3-wire braid with these two wires and the ground from the supply, which went to pin 13 on the ATX-20 plug.

I hope this helps.

Greg in Mississippi


Everything matters!

 

Won't allow low CPU voltage, posted on December 13, 2010 at 20:01:33
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I have purchase many GIGABYTE boards but this is the first that will not allow LOWERING the voltage.

In every other way it seemed to be a contender. Did have the ability to disable SPREAD SPECTRUM.

One wonders why this choice was not given?

Sening back to NEWEGG. Useless for cMP.

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

Site updated with latest version - please check. nt., posted on December 13, 2010 at 22:48:45
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 .

 

RE: Remove the CMOS battery for a few hours, posted on December 13, 2010 at 23:50:45
audiodan@tiscali.it
Audiophile

Posts: 108
Location: Cagliari - Sardinia
Joined: July 7, 2009
 Hi Rick
I've recovered the miniITX mobo (H55NUSB3) following your advice, so thanks a lot.
The other one instead was dead. I can explain me this failure by my complicated system of turn on/turn off of PSU: too much!
Maybe I've turn off the linear PSU of PicoPSU but no the ATX one feeding P24, so when I've done the clear cmos mobo was gone away.
Mobo now doesn't start, blink all leds for a while so it stop and try to restart endless.

 

RE: Linear PSU again: help needed, posted on December 14, 2010 at 10:00:46
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Mihaylov,

You suggested "separate low-power psu for 5VSB and pwr_ok".
Do you mean, "separate from your main +5V linear supply?
Did you mention this in your PDF design plan?
Could you please tell why and what kind of low-power psu?
I would need your info to implement it.
Thanks

 

OK!, posted on December 14, 2010 at 10:50:52
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 OK.
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: Linear PSU again: help needed, posted on December 14, 2010 at 11:00:11
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 -Do you mean, "separate from your main +5V linear supply?- Yes.
-Did you mention this in your PDF design plan?- No. It's a new option offered Greg and improving a sound.

I use such linear psu for 5VSB and pwr_ok in my alternative cMP2's linear PSU (see Photos from my site).




Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: Linear PSU again: help needed, posted on December 14, 2010 at 12:35:54
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Thanks a lot.
I will upgrade "my" plan :)

 

RE: Linear PSU again: help needed, posted on December 14, 2010 at 15:20:32
gene_
Audiophile

Posts: 39
Location: South London
Joined: November 22, 2009



Hi guys,
I starting use PIO caps for fitering with great result. Two 2mf PIO caps reduce
noise on 10 db from 10 khz upward , on 5 volt MoBo line, but still some spike.
Sound has changed , more space , cleaner,more impact ,distant instruments and low level signal sound more smooth ,refined.
More experiment on a way , will report.
Gene.

 

Does Pin 16 on P24 get connected?, posted on December 15, 2010 at 00:28:20
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Using your delay circuit does Pin 16 PS_ON (Green) get connected on P24?
Thanks

 

RE: Does Pin 16 on P24 get connected?, posted on December 15, 2010 at 11:17:46
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Yes, certainly. Pin 1 DD1 is connected to pin 16 socket P24 of the system board. The system board is started by pressing the button on Zalman's front panel.
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: Does Pin 16 on P24 get connected?, posted on December 15, 2010 at 13:46:52
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Thanks.

I wanted to be sure becaus in your PDF design plan, on the last page, Pin 16 is set to No Connection.

 

RE: Does Pin 16 on P24 get connected?, posted on December 15, 2010 at 15:30:38
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 "...in your PDF design plan, on the last page, Pin 16 is set to No Connection." - It's correct because delay circuit isn't use in initial variant of linear PSU for GA-G31M-ES2L system board.
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

Lynx AES16 Or AES16e?, posted on December 19, 2010 at 02:04:36
smicyta
Audiophile

Posts: 125
Joined: February 19, 2010
 Looking to purchase either one of these. Which would be the better option-16 or 16e? Or no differences?

Any input deeply appreciated.

 

RE: Linear PSU again: help needed, posted on December 19, 2010 at 13:00:27
gene_
Audiophile

Posts: 39
Location: South London
Joined: November 22, 2009



Hi guys,
Continue install PIO caps for filtration on P24 connected by PCB . Again , success .
Noise level drop on 7-9 db according to oscilloscope reading ( +12 MoBo).For +3v MoBo and +5v MoBo added small caps 0.001mf -improvment on 3-4 db,( it is giong to measurement limit of my oscilloscope -90- 95db.).
Sound cleaner, more space. More caps on a way.
I think this is a way forward. Salas shunt regulator splited on two units, last one should
be installed closely to board. Buffalo DAC use also smallest shunt reg., whith connectors
pin just a 1/2 inch long.
Picture show last addition.
Gene.
BTW. How post bigger picture?

 

RE: Linear PSU again: help needed, posted on December 19, 2010 at 13:53:08
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 "BTW. How post bigger picture?" - In no way unfortunately :( ("All images over 640x480 resolution will be scaled accordingly to reduce bandwidth and storage space."). It is possible to upload here http://imageshack.us/ (for example)
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: Lynx AES16 Or AES16e?, posted on December 20, 2010 at 08:11:44
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 hey smicyta,

have been looking forward to any relevant response to your question, but it seems it´s one of those tricky ones that hardly can be answered.
who would have compared them 1:1 ?
I´m sure that lynx support can answer why both of these cards are in their portfolio.

the PCIexpress bus is definitely the faster connection compared to the regular PCI, so in a multiple channel mixing scenario it should allow less latency, jitter and distortion....and a better signal-to-noise ratio.
I doubt it will have any relevance in a domestic stereo or 4 channel mode.

the lynx soundcards are all blessed by superior driver maintenance and continuous upgrades from the manufacturer, and that, I believe is the main reason for their success among professional studios.
it is my observation that the ongoing development of drivers is a vital key to staying on top of the game in digital audio, and
find it remarkable that some of lynx products, despite their age, are so highly reputed.
I can only be astonished how much quality has improved with every new version of their drivers !

Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

New CPUs & mobos using latest 32nm Sandybridge architecture (2011q1): Intel exiting from PCI - PCIe preferred, posted on December 20, 2010 at 21:06:52
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Yes its that time again.

There's a new range of 32nm Core ix-xxxx CPUs using a new socket (1155 from previous 1156). The exciting thing about this 2nd generation 32nm CPU is lower power consumption and improved performance - everything is integrated into a single 32nm die. If my memory serves me correctly, 1156 based Core ix CPUs & mobos required more 5V load (for QPI interface component). This is done away with. New as well is Intel's AVX instruction set allowing for 256 bit processing which is NOT supported in XP. For the enthusiasts, more information on Intel's Sandybridge can be found here.

Gigabyte's H67 chipset based mobos will support these CPUs: GA-H67MA-UD2H which offers no PCI slots! H65/7 based mobos that do provide PCI support does so using a separate PCI/PCIe chip which is not ideal. Intel will offer PCI support for Q61/5/7 chipsets - problem is finding a mobo that uses these.

What is not clear is chipset support for Intel's 22nm CPUs (Ivy-bridge) which will use the 1155 socket. This 22nm shrink of Sandybridge would yield even greater efficiencies but ideally we don't want to get another mobo.

I want to get the Lynx AES16e to try with this new hw. Will it improve on current hw specs (Core i3-530 + GB-H55M-UD2H) is the big question? I would recommend avoid using the PCIEx16 slot (which runs off the CPU). PCIEx16 is very fast indeed but I suspect for audio it will not be a good choice as the CPU is powered using multiple power phases (previous mobo uses 4 whilst new one goes to 8). Instead use other PCIe slots (running off H67 chipset). This is why I'm not keen on mini-ITX mobos as they only offer a single "noisy" PCIEx16 slot.

CPU option would be lowest spec Core i3-2100 @ 3.1GHz (K spec) - avoid S & T spec CPUs. BIOS would be very similar to current setup.

 

RE: New CPUs & mobos using latest 32nm Sandybridge architecture (2011q1): Intel exiting from PCI - PCIe preferred, posted on December 21, 2010 at 13:54:26
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 It will be very interesting.

Price And Release Day Of Intel Sandy Bridge Processor Confirmed





Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

LatencyMon in place of DPC Latency Checker..., posted on December 28, 2010 at 15:05:52
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 ...but only for Vista/Seven system. XP is not supported.

LatencyMon checks if a system running Windows is suitable for processing real time audio by measuring DPC and ISR excecution times as well as hard pagefaults. It will provide a comprehensible report and find the kernel modules and processes responsible for causing audio latencies which result in drop outs. It also provides the functionality of an ISR monitor, DPC monitor and a hard pagefault monitor.

LatencyMon will display the execution time of each ISR, DPC routine and hard pagefault and will resolve them to the drivers and processes responsible for executing them. It will create a comprehensible report but it will also represent all sampled data in a detailed manner allowing you to perform in-depth analysis.

 

P4 power supply using the BELLESON regulator and mouse problem, posted on December 30, 2010 at 08:54:16
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Finally got this installed, my first step, and must admit it made a much bigger difference than I expected.

Been listening to it for a week and the biggest impression is a lower noise floor. Not that I was detecting noise before, but little details seem to be there. Takes much less effort to hear all that is there.

In addition, I do think there is a general improvement in tone.

The strange thing is: before I was using an old ATX supply to to power P4 and the USB. I made a new LT1086-5 based supply for the USB but I know longer have a mouse. I turned off all of the USB ports on the "back" so I cannot use those.

I am going to get a non-modified cable to see if the mouse returns when using the onboard power. I had clipped the power wires at the connector so no way to reconnect. Sure wish I hadn't.

Just wondered what can one do when this happens if the unmodified USB/MB cable does not bring the mouse back? I am thinking I have no choice but to reload WINDOWS?

I have the final BELLESON regulator on the way for my stab at an all linear supply. It is rated for 2 amps but the maker assures me that if I use a large heatsink (I am using one large enough for a one channel 40 watts amplifier) and minimal input voltage (I am shooting for seven volts which he says will be enough) I can get away with it. Using the BELLESON for the 12 volts but for the moment an LT1086-3.3 for the 3.3. I am assuming that is suffiecient and much cheaper than another BELLESON. They do make a 3.3 but I thought I could save some money and get by.

I am using the largest bolt on heatsink I could find for the P4 regulator. No need for more heatsink than that. I am assuming only the 5 volts rail will require a serious heatsink. The P4 sink is barely warm though in the summer it might be different. I use a low speed fan during the summer to keep the air flowing.

Worried that the SALAS regulator would be a slight problem since it does allow the voltages to float. I know there is the theoretical advantage of having a supply that can sink current which might be good with the spikiness of what is likely made with the interaction of all these switching devices and their power supplies. I went with easy, but the BELLESONs are certainly more effective than the usual three pin. I do not pretend they are perfect or even close to that.

Something that has aided in making these supplies are the power supply boards made by Peter Daniel. I highly recommend them. Nicely made, as everything made by Peter Daniel. See here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/audio-sector/149672-universal-power-supply-pcb.html.

Seeing that the GRANITE POWER supply has only a 5 and 12 volts rails indicates that is all that is needed for for powering the HDD. I plan on using the USB 5 volt and assembling a 12 volt supply, using the LT1086-12 for that.

The five volts supply will be the most elaborate since all seem to agree that this is the most important. I will be using a huge choke between two electrolytics after the rectifiers and then to the DANIEL board.

Peter Daniel reminded me that the rectifiers for the 5 volts supply will need to be sinked. I am using his recommended aluminum channel for this purpose.

For the other supplies, unless I find otherwise, will be in the air and the ones, so far, are not heating at all, or not much.

I hope all of this will be worth it!

Any help on mouse retrieval will be appreciated. Wish there were more commands for the keyboard.

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: P4 power supply using the BELLESON regulator and mouse problem, posted on December 30, 2010 at 09:18:34
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Nice work and congrats on your new ps.

 

Thanks for the encouragement, posted on December 30, 2010 at 13:33:36
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 just hope the rest of it is as easily implemented!

Wish I could figure out where the mouse went!

 

RE: P4 power supply using the BELLESON regulator and mouse problem, posted on December 31, 2010 at 12:09:05
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Rick,

Very much congratulations. Glad to hear it made such a significant improvement for you.

I'll write more on the power stuff later, but on the mouse, it should come back ok when you use the un-modified cable. If it does not, of course you can try turning one of the rear-panel ones again to confirm that it's not a mouse or motherboard USB header issue. I regularly pull my mouse when I have a new version of cPlay or just a recording or two to transfer and plug a USB stick there. I do have to boot with the stick in or it's not recognized... and when I'm done, I just put the mouse dongle back in & reboot & it's there. Also, you don't have the USB Mouse support disabled in the BIOS, do you?

Again, congrats!

Greg in Mississippi



there is also a setting f
Everything matters!

 

Again, congratulations..., posted on December 31, 2010 at 16:51:57
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Sounds like you're providing several new wrinkles that will benefit us all.

First, thanks for sharing the info on the new Belleson 2A regulators. I hadn't seen them yet. They look to be THE current contender for DIY supply regulators... I'd even look at their 2A regulator if I were doing another linear/hybrid supply for the main 12v rail. I strongly suspect they are a better choice than the AMB Sigma... and based on your comment about the high-current 5v Salas, it may not be suitable (BTW, can you point to any web references or discussions on this aspect of the Salas? I'd like to see what can be done to make the voltage level more consistent).

You know, as I ponder it more, I think I need to put an order in for a couple of 12v & a 5v 2A regulator from them.

On voltages, earlier this summer, I had been in communication with a lurking-inmate from Oz who had a fully linear supply built. He had pots to adjust the voltages and found (similar to other postings here) that a slightly lower voltage was best sonically. He didn't get around to reporting on the 3.3v rail, but found the sweet voltages for his setup were 4.6v & 11.8v for the ATX connection.

BTW, he used the John Swenson choke-filtered supply for his basic raw DC supplies and was very happy with the results. Very interested in what you're doing for the choke-filtering for your 5v raw supply if you're willing to share it.

Those are the voltages I settled on based on his suggestions.

And I'd agree that using an LT1086-3.3v is likely your best bang-for-the-bux for the 3.3v rail. Sorry, tho, I haven't taken the time to put in my LT3080-based regulator on that rail, so I don't have a definitive opinion on that.

As for heatsinks on the rectifiers for the 5v raw supply, I totally agree with that. Those devices are the hot-spots of my fully-linear supply and putting heatsinks on them was one of the first things I did when trying to resolve my early issues that I thought were related to overheating (but were not). I'd also suggest heatsinks for the other regulators too, especially if you have a fairly high input-to-output voltage differential on them. All of my regulators (all LT1083 or LT3080 based at this time) run from moderately-warm to hot, but I do have fairly high differentials on all of them.

On powering the HDD, if you have a 2.5" SATA drive, they only need the 5v rail. I believe that 3.5" drives need both the 5v & 12v, but I cannot confirm that... it may have changed with the newer 'Green' drives. But I strongly suspect that the best sound quality will be had by using an entirely separate supply (or pair of them) for the HDD instead of sharing it with the USB 5v supply.... the drive(s) seem to be electrical-noise hot-spot(s) in our cMPs.

Finally, my experience with the sonic benefits parallel yours. 'Dense' is the adjective that comes to mind... lot of details, lot of textures, all presented in an easy-to-listen-to, but musical fashion. But I bet your Belleson-based supplies with the choke-filtering on the 5v raw supply might be the best sounding implementation out there currently.

Thanks... And Happy New Year too!

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. I have a few tweak comments too... will put them into the EVS Ground Enhancer tweak sub-thread you, Theob, & Playmate discussed awhile back.
Everything matters!

 

EVS Ground Enhancer tweak a month or so down the line?, posted on December 31, 2010 at 17:08:19
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Rick & Theob,

Now that you've had a month or so with the EVS Ground Enhancer tweaks, how are you using them and how do they sound?

I have a TON of respect for Ric & his work. I've had two of his modified DVD players in my system (still have them both around) plus use his tweaked Ice-Power-based amps. Pity he's not doing mods with the success of these devices, but I hope it's working well for him.

So I guess I need to go order some!

The other tweak that I've experimenting with are Alan Maher's CBT's... basically small boxes filled with gemstones. Yah, I was very skeptical when I heard about them, but the testimonial from John Swenson (another person I have a lot of respect for) had me try them. Now I have them in my circuit breaker box and on many of my AC plugs & power supply AC lines & transformers. I've been a bit in 'break-in' hell over the last couple of weeks, but things are beginning to settle in well. Benefits are decreased hash & increased clarity. I'm getting the most analog-like treble I've ever gotten from my cMP setup, surprisingly realistic vocals, and a large increase in bass definition. Well worth it and very cost-effective!

BTW, there have been some interesting (and often skeptical & acrinonious) threads on both of these tweaks on the 'Tweak Asylum', if you haven't noticed. Good application info on both, if you can wade through the flames.

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

New Hardware Questions, posted on December 31, 2010 at 18:35:16
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12592
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004

I am working on getting my rig with the new hardware going.

For some reason the options above dont show up. Are they absent with the new hardware, or did I miss some setting?

Is there a bios setting guide somewhere.

I saw Mihaylovs settings; are they all correct?

What about the Ahci or something prompt about the hdds? Bibo01 had some post about this. Do I set the hdds to this or not?

tia

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

It did come back on!, posted on December 31, 2010 at 19:26:15
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I went to FRYS and got an "unmolested" USB/MB connector - but only the standard mouse works, not the "remote" mouse.

Last time this happened I had to leave MINLOGON to get it to work. Once it worked I returned to MINLOGON.

What is weird is that my supply is definitely putting out the required 5 volts. I checked with a mouse plugged is (out of the computer circut completely)and there is no change in voltage (supply is up to the task). I had the same problem with the GRANITE supply - never could get it to work but when I went to the second ATX supply I had no problem using a 5 volts rail to power the MB/USB connector.

Does one need to have the ground from the supply/USB adaptor connected to one of the grounds of the MB? I have not tried this yet but it is the only thing I can imagine that would be the difference. I think I am the only one to have this problem. It is not confined to this MB, I could not get the GRANITE to work with the previous recommended MB.

I really am surprised how much better the linear supply sounds with P4. Of course, that is easy to implement. It will be far more exciting if I can the thing to turn on with the linear P24!.

Have you figured out what the mysterious (since he has disappeared) Jack Wong was doing with the memory supply? Was he powering the memory outside of the MB? I could never quite figure it out. And his post was not exactly clear about that. Just curious.

Thanks for the advice.

Bye,

Rick McInnis

I assume you are powering the mouse with a linear supply (I assume in conjunction with the HDD) - did you have to do something to ground it to the MB?

 

RE: New Hardware Questions, posted on December 31, 2010 at 19:48:03
rhin0z15
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Joined: August 16, 2010
 http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=80791

this may answer your question

 

My choke supply is standard stuff, posted on December 31, 2010 at 19:59:20
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Using the HAMMOND 100mH 5A (195T5)choke between two caps - nothing clever.
Then on to the DANIELs PCB. I am able to use the PCB on the heatsink I had laying around which is absurdly oversized but better safe than sorry.

I am stealing Swenson's rectifier filter and using his recommended rectifiers for the P24 supplies. For the other supplies I used FAIRCHILD "Stealth" rectifiers.

BELLESON has led me to believe that the 2A reg will be able to do the job with a large heatsink. I am using the latest recommended MB which I hope will allow me to get away with this regulator. I can always plug in the ATX for outside of cMP duty like adding music files.

I am using heatsinks for the others, just not big ones. This is what I am using: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/RA-T2X-64E/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMttgyDkZ5WiumlCfl50RTwzl4D6wMWH1QQ%3d.

For the JULI@ and the P4 (what I have done so far) they are warm. No need for any more. To make them more efficient I am not using anything between the heatsink and the transistor. I am using that trick thermal compond the computer gamers use for their CPUs. One does need to make sure there is no way the heatsink comes in contact with anything else, though. You can touch them without getting shocked as long as you are not grounded! From what has been said about the P24 12 & 3.3V requirements I cannot imagine these not being sufficient. Nice thing about these sinks one can mount the regulator at the connector - the one for the JULI@ is on the board, for the P4 I am using about two inches of wire before the connector. The JULI@ regulator is not using the DANIELs PCB.

For P24 this will not be possible, obviously!

One can certainly make a shunt reg have a constant voltage - you have to add some kind of feedback and an error amplifier of some kind. This is what Allen Wright does and I feel certain Hynes does this also. Hynes uses lots of SMD devices so it hard to see what is actually happening. It has been awhile since I had the ones I have in front of me to look. Nonetheless, there is no other way.

For audio circuits the SALAS type reg is probably superior. There really is no need (that I can see) for voltages being absolute, though it is a nice bonus. One can worry about just what mischief an error amp and feedback loop can do - they still lag behind the actual event so you get the see-sawing. I would think a slow variation is better than the quick (but never quite quick enough) reactions of an error amplifier.

Not to say I hear anything wrong with the Hynes, and plenty of other people are keeping the man very busy, so it must not be much of a problem. (Excuse my going in circles)

My HDD is not a 2.5" so I guess I need to have both rails. I think you are right about separate supplies for USB and HDD. It is so easy with the DANIEL's PCB and fixed voltage versions of the LT1086. No need to push the limits of the regulator.

Now, if you could just tell me where I am going wrong with the "mouse" supply!

Thanks,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: New Hardware Questions, posted on December 31, 2010 at 20:03:14
rhin0z15
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Posts: 112
Joined: August 16, 2010
 http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=78310

control+f1 apparently reveals hidden bios settings.

 

RE: New Hardware Questions, posted on December 31, 2010 at 20:08:02
rhin0z15
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Joined: August 16, 2010
 http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/7/76249.html

 

You made me go check!, posted on December 31, 2010 at 21:53:00
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Interesting what's happening on your mouse. I had to go look how I'd done it... heck, I'd set that up almost 2 years ago! I did mine just as described in the cMP documentation for using the Granite Digital SMPS's to power the USB header... cut the black & red wires, tie-in a 4-pin Molex plug to those wires going to USB recepticles, and plug the power supply, GD or my linear, into that. The black & red wires that go to the plug that fits on the motherboard header are not connected. But now that I type this, I realized that I didn't check if it was tied to ground... I checked, I hadn't done it on purpose, but I did tie the shield on the cable to the ground from the Molex plug and that gets tied to ground through the USB recepticle mounting screws (Hmmmm there's probably some opportunity for better grounding paths there).

To answer your question, yes, the ground on my 5v linear supply for the USB is tied to the motherboard ground. So it wouldn't hurt for you to do this & might fix your USB mouse problem.

Oh, and of course, the likely reason it worked with the spare ATX supply is that it was grounded through the P4 connector.

BTW, a quick experiment to try... plug your spare ATX into the AC without it being plugged into the P4 & the USB header... I'm curious if you'll hear a difference just due to having it plugged into your AC.

On the missing, lamented JackWong & memory power, yes, he was supplying the 1.35v/160ma for the memory from a single, large-capacity (11000 mAh) NiMH battery. He also supplied the 0.65v/120ma for the graphic core this way with a variable resistor to drop the voltage from the battery. I figure the memory supply is worth doing someday (since he said it made the larger impact), but likely pretty far down the road... and I'd like to do it with a linear supply, not a battery to avoid the battery housekeeping issues.

I hope this helps with your mouse issues!

Later!

Greg in Minneapolis
Everything matters!

 

Thanks for the help. Figured it out! nt., posted on January 1, 2011 at 01:34:57
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12592
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 d

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: EVS Ground Enhancer tweak a month or so down the line?, posted on January 1, 2011 at 05:45:27
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I'm still experimenting. I started with 20" of kk 4tc hanging off of my mid bass and e-panel negative terminals and it was a revelation...just as BudP said (check out the thread in DIY audio). I have been experimenting with 18 gage stranded cable and/or 30 gage teflon coated cable off my Buf32s dac balanced out grounds but I haven't decided which is better yet. I tried the 'hang on' a 9 volt battery to the mid-bass and sub woofer grounds and they are very good here. When I tried the battery on my e-panels it partially discharged them (thought I broke them). But after removing the battery and letting them charge for an hour or so they came back ok. So pls do not try on electrostatic panels. The battery though does take the sonic effects of the groundside tweaks I use to another level. But the battery on my dac output may be too much of a good thing (as BudP warns against). But this tweak (the groundsides) are very useful in tuning one's system. Sonic effects: increased clarity in entire spectrum, more dynamics, lower noise floor, better imaging. Even BudP admits his explanation as to why they work may be wrong but to me it sounds as if they are acting as a rfi/emi (esp wifi) traps. The best way to describe the sonic effect is that everything gets tighter but in 'over application' situations it gets strident. Key is to find how much your system needs/can tolerate. Maybe I need to get the commercial ones but so far I continue to use my diy's.

Hope that helps. Check out DIY audio...there are many diy tips as well as where to use.

 

Thanks for the dialogue, posted on January 1, 2011 at 11:11:35
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I have not, as yet, tied the supply to the MB's ground, but that has to be the answer.

I will let it be known when I get it to work.

One funny thing though about using the ATX ground for the USB - while this was what I was using my BIOS was very unstable. All would be fine for days and then the default BIOS would return. When one attempted to re-set the BIOS you were given the RED SCREEN saying that I was doing something the BIOS did not like. Usually a simple shorting of the pins would not do the trick. The battery had to be removed for a couple of hours.

Does indicate that grounding (no surprise) is very important for stability. Wish we could get Dave Davenport interested in this but I have tried and he thinks we are all insane to use computers. Well, maybe not insane, he does not think it a good direction. YET, he loves the PS AUDIO Perfect Wave CD system which is very much like one of those dreaded computers!

He is an expert on grounding. Wish he was interested.

You are correct that there is probably much to be gained by some kind of grounding "tricks".

Thanks again for the advice.

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

The ground wire connection to the P24 ground did it, posted on January 1, 2011 at 14:11:27
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 That was really driving me crazy.

Of course, it is/was obvious.

Before I was using a separate GRANITE supply for the HDD and I guess that explains why I was never able to get this to work then.

It will be interesting to see if this eliminates the BIOS instability.

Thanks, again,

 

RE: The ground wire connection to the P24 ground did it, posted on January 1, 2011 at 18:41:11
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Welcome... and same to you!

Your BIOS instability does not surprise me. I noticed something similar on stability when I went to the fully-linear supply from the Pico-PSU-based linear-hybrid one... I could run a step or two lower in voltage.

Also on the grounding, when I was tracing out the USB power connection last night, I noticed that the ground pin on the USB cable side of the Molex plug had pulled out (I HATE those connectors... I bet there's a good sonic upgrade available in replacing them!) and was not making contact. I pushed it back in and made sure my wire dressing and component placement (especially HDD) was right... and when I re-booted the system, the sonic 'robustness' through the lower midrange & sense of dynamics & 'bounciness' that had been missing for a couple of weeks and that I assumed was due to Alan Maher CBT's & AC filter chokes breaking in came back. They were (and still are) breaking in... but it was not just that.

I definitely need to setup better ground routing on my 'dirty' connections... I did it very haphazardly back then.

Very glad that the grounding fixed your USB mouse issue.

Later!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: My choke supply is standard stuff, posted on January 1, 2011 at 19:17:46
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Thanks for the info on your choke setup. What size caps? How'd it look in the sim?

On the rectifier heatsinks, I am using very oversized rectifiers... IXYS DSEP30-06A, a 30A 600v FRED. My heatsinks on them are pretty small in size... but do make a diff. The other difference is that I've setup all my supplies as 2 diodes full-waves instead of a 4 diode full-wave bridges. I've also used the MSR860 diodes that Peter Daniel uses in his NOS DAC, but prefer the IXYS ones.

I need to try the Swenson filters. See his comments here that suggest it'll work on just about any PSU setup:

http://www.diyhifi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1957&start=15

I'm running about 2.2A on the GA-G31M-S2L motherboard. I need to check with Belleson if their 2A reg will work with that much current with a substantial heatsink. My P4 is at just under .5A & I use a smaller heatsink than what you referenced. All of my supplies have about 5V-6V of input-to-output differential.

I checked the Hynes shunt I have here for a Juli@ upgrade & it does appear to have an error amp.

I'll have to build up the high-current Salas & see how tight they can be set. I was assuming the 2 LED reference would keep the output pretty stable.

Again, thanks for all.

Greg in Mississippi

Everything matters!

 

RE: Thanks for the dialogue, posted on January 1, 2011 at 20:44:47
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Keep working on Davenport... it'd be great to have his insight.

BTW, are you using his I2S-interface? Very curious how that works for people.

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

Thanks for relating your experiences with this..., posted on January 1, 2011 at 22:38:45
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Very helpful.

I'll have to get some of the EVS ones... plus try the battery tweak.

Strange about the battery tweak discharging your speaker's bias voltage... but on reflection, it makes sense. Most E-stats have a positive bias referenced to the ground connection... and since electrons are negative, that means that the positively-biased panel has a lack of electrons. You fed them into the panel faster than the bias supply could take them out.

OTOH, I wonder what it'd be like to rebuild the bias to do a negatively-biased panel? Can you say bilt-in electron supply!

Later!

Greg in Mississippi (who may just have to break those Acoustat 1+1's out of storage!)


Everything matters!

 

Without the error amp the regulator cannot compensate for ..., posted on January 2, 2011 at 08:23:00
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 fluctuations in line voltage.

If yours is super stable it will not make much a difference.

I'll readily admit I did not feel like fooling around with the SALAS - as usual, I bought the parts and then thought that the BELLESON's make it easy! I will do that!!!

I might eventually use a SALAS on JULI@, I do not think super stable (divorced from the line) voltage is all that important there.

I am using the i3 board so I am hoping that it does indeed use less power.

(You need to make this upgrade, it really makes a difference) Board is on sale at NEWEGG, who I despise at the moment.

Can't remember if I said, that the reason I am using the choke with the % volts supply is that I am going to have to minimize the in/out voltage differential and figured I should give the regulator as little work as possible to do.

On the other regulators I have used more dropout voltage, I suspect similat to your choices.

I am still enjoying what the EVS version of the Purvine idea does for my speakers, I have only used them on the TAD drivers, the 4001 especially known for aggressiveness, and found they made them sound much more refined.

Theo is far more adventurous than me with his DIY efforts. I tried the battery on my woofers but did not hear much of anything but it might take time to hear the difference below 500 hz (?). I have not tried the battery in place of the EVS devices. I will.

I have not tried Mr. Maher's devices. I am intrigued. They strike me as even more mysterious than loops of wire and batteries hanging off of drivers!

If the battery works as well as Theo reports, and as you know I think Theo has very perceptive hearing, Mr. Schultz might be back to modifications soon. The battery is easy to implement. What Ric was/is doing is time-consuming. I know I would not want to make one in the same fashion as his. I was glad to send him the money. They are well made.

I have been involved in a very silly thread about the battery at AA TWEAKS - a guy who makes cables is going on and on about how the "pool of electrons" idea is preposterous and CANNOT work. A guy making cables saying this. Says: where's the proof? A guy making cables wants proof? I asked him about cables being PROVED to work. He says they have not (duh!) but that doesn't stop him. He has not tried the tweak. I think he has been on an extended NEW YEAR'S "imbibement" or maybe he is lacking some other form of diversion, who knows?

Bye,

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on January 3, 2011 at 09:59:35
ook


 
i LOVE you. i am listening to files i thought basically unplayable in digital thanks to your gorgeous bit of software and they are sending tingles up my spine.

i have a thoroughly cheap and cheerful system - a crappy compaq laptop feeds offboard soundcard feeds constantine dac feeds modded t amps feeds some really ropey self-built/self-destroyed speakers and i am in HEAVEN!!

you have inspired me to make the mineral-oil immersed audio pc of my dreams and have confirmed my long-held suspicion that hi end needn't mean hi cost.


THANK you =)

 

Multiple Power Supply Grounding and Pico/Linear Questions, posted on January 4, 2011 at 22:39:19
EmailTim
 My first purpose built music PC is based off of a AT5IONT-I MoBo with the following stuffing options:

- Win7 Ultimate 64-bit (trimmed down, disabled services, disabled drivers and disabled accessories)
- Pico 150 power supply (P24 connection to Mobo, no P4 connection on the MoBo, power to hard drive and power to sound card)
- Asus Xonar Essence STX (digital and USB outs to external DAC(s))
- Laptop hard drive
- No optical drive (external USB drive when needed)
- No fans (passive cooling)

I have just ordered 2 Granite Digital power supplies to experiment with (1 for the sound card's 4-pin molex connector (clean) and 1 for the hard drive (dirty)).

Do I need to do any special grounding when adding these 2 extra power supplies?
Should they be somehow grounded to the chassis or a star-ground configuration?
Should the hard drive's mounting screws to the case chassis be kept or lifted?

Also, I have read threads about Pico/Linear power supply upgrades. Is this upgrade accomplished by just replacing the Pico's switching brick with a linear test-bench power supply? I understand you need a Pico power supply that leaves the 12 volt lines regulated.

After I learn with this one, I will be building a new i3 or i5 version, maybe a Sandy Bridge version it they come out soon for my 2 channel room.

Thanks for your help.

Sincerely,
Tim

 

why so different?, posted on January 5, 2011 at 02:12:20
hfavandepas
 Hi Tim,

You are going to build a Music PC inspired by the cMP-project. Some part of the project-concept you apply, as at other points you decided too take a different approach.

Can you give some background information on why you partly chose too take a (very) different approach? For instance: a different OS, very different MoBo with very different socket and thus very different chipset and processor. A Pico 150 driven by a switching (!) PSU, a Granite Digital (switching !) PSU to power the soundcard, ect.

These choices have big impact on the sound quality. However I’m not so sure for the better of it.

Therefore some more background information on why you made these choices would be helpfull, as I think that you first should deal with some bigger sound quality related issues than grounding (although important).

Mark

 

RE: why so different?, posted on January 5, 2011 at 08:25:18
EmailTim
 Hi Mark,

Here are some of my considerations. I tried to follow a bit from the parts lists and threads as well as explore areas of interest that I had (e.g. SFF CarPuter, HDMI audio to use existing DACs and room correction, avoid discontinued software, etc.)

The CICS MemoryPlayer Components List identifies the following. I do not believe I strayed too far except for the MoBo.

1) OS - XP, Vista or Win7 with XP having the most teaking options.

I picked Win7 because it was in the list of recommended OSes and XP is no longer supported by Microsoft. I have moved all of my machines to Win7 for common support (except for my Linux boxes). I have also had better luck with 64 bit performance with my other machines so thought I would try it for audio. Either way, I can switch OS's by simply swapping the boot drive. I am not locked into the OS.

5) Motherboard - Gigabyte variants

I picked the Asus AT5IONT all in one because I wanted to experiment with a multiple things cheaply. Unfortunately, the Deluxe version did not appear. The Deluxe had a mini-PCIe port used for WiFi. I was going to see if I could use the mini-PCIe to house a low power flash/boot drive and use the SATA ports for the library drive(s). It also has HDMI audio out for my HT room which would allow me to use the DACs in my Pre/Pro (including room correction) and my TV for the display using one HDMI cable. It was small enough of a footprint to also be used as a CarPuter and had a PCIe slot to try a sound card if the onboard was not good enough. So basically it was small form factor experiment to try different options between the home and car. If it did not work, I can convert it to a low power file server for the office.

7) PSU - Antec's EarthWatts and Zallman Heatpipe models.

I picked a PICO because because I wanted a quiet, fanless PS that would work in both the home and car during prototypes. I also see others on this forum using PICO supplies with good reviews or PICO hybrids so a PICO supply did not seem out of the question. The PICO is fanless and has been tweaked by adding a linear supplies to it.

10) Soundcard - ASIO Compatible, PCI, PCIe or USB

I started with the onboard sound card and then experimented with a higher speced Xonar Essence STX. The Xonar fits all of the requirements listed in the components list and offers 24/192K. I am not married to it and may try a Lynx or RME. Have already using an EMU in the past.

11) Alternate PSU - Granite Digital PS

I see that there has been work done by isolating dirty components by offloading them onto their own isolated Granite Digital PS, so I was going to try that next. Again it is in the threads and the components list. My sound card takes a 4-pin molex connector and was considering trying to give it its own power clean dedicated supply.

I have not done anything with the USB power yet, just disabling all of the unused USB ports and only use 1 for a mouse/keyboard.

Sincerely,
Tim

 

Win 7 , posted on January 5, 2011 at 16:05:57
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 hi tim,

congratulations to your bold step into the cMP community.

one little remark before you jump : DO consider the XP operating system instead of the win7 one.
while there may (!) be an advantage of a 64bit system, one of the major benefits of XP is the ability to shut down a LOT of the irrelevant stuff. especially the implementation of minlogon is making it the superior system to build cMP2 upon.

these modifications may seem minor and may be disrupting some of your thoughts within other features you want in your audio chain, but in terms of audio quality, win 7 will not standup to a proper reduced XP....

-but we´re of course not living in a dictatorship :-)


kind regards & good luck !


Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

Some thoughts on grounding and grounding as I do in my setup, posted on January 5, 2011 at 16:40:02
hfavandepas
 Hi Tim,

Okay, now your choices are more clear too me.

1) I tried al kind of OS-es XP, win7, Linux, OS-X SL (hackintoch) on the cMP hardware.
I found that Windows and OS-X have exactly the same sound quality. There is no difference between those OS-es, the difference is in the audio-software/drivers/player that are used on Windows or OS-X.
I expect the same for Linux. Although when I tried linux Mint10 lately with some of the standard audioplayers that come with that distro, but I found that all the players sound somewhat ‘dark’ / ‘brown’. Not being my taste. But may be there are also better sounding linux players outthere, that fit my taste.


5) Since you want too do a small form factor experiment, have you considered an socket 1156 mITX MoBo from Gigabyte? Chipsets, sockets and processortypes, all do have their own specific sonic fingerprint and sonic quality. I don’t know the sound od the Intel NM10 chipset and Intel Atom D525 processor, but I know that the new I-core format definitely sounds better than the old core-2-duo / socket 775 format.

However, Cics doesn’t recommend the use of mITX MoBo’s because they only just have one PCI(e) slot that is directly coupled too the processor (or something …). You better ask Cics for some background info on this.

7) PSU.
Power supply, power consumption and keeping the power as clean as possible, are main topics in the cMP project.
I stopped using 230 Volt AC ATX PSU altogether. Almost all ATX PSU throw back lots of pollution and distortion into the 230 V AC power lines that feed them, and thus spoiling the power for your amps, DAC and other auxiliaries. Also at the other DC end, ATX PSU’s also throw lots of pollution and distortion into the 3.3, 5 and 12 volt DC lines and ground lines.

I followed the concept of a ‘clean’ and a ‘dirty’ PSU by using 2 Pico PSU’s.
I know Pico’s are also ‘switching’ PSU’s, but the switching technique is only used for making 3.3 V DC and 5 volt DC out of the (linear) supplied 12 V DC.
My hope is that the switching-technique used to get 3.3 V DC and 5 V DC out of 12 V DC results in less pollution and distortion than the switching-technique used to get 3.3, 5, 12 V DC from 230 AC.
Just a thought. I don’t know if this is true.

With maximum sound quality in mind I would avoid feeding a Pico PSU with a SMTP brick. Instead I would use a linear PSU to feed it. This way you already avoid 1 noisy and polluting 230 AC switching PSU in your audio-setup.

I follow the concept using two PSU’s. One for dirty components and one for ‘clean’ components. The idea is in preventing that dirty components spoil the power for clean components.
So I use two Pico PSU’s with each have their own dedicated linear PSU that feeds the Pico PSU’s 12 V DC.
One Pico feeds all the ‘dirty’ components: USB, HDD/SSD, DVD and the P4.
One Pico feeds the P24.

* Does the concept of separating ‘clean’ and ‘dirty’ work?
I don’t know. I have no scope. But I do know that pollution and distortion can freely travel around on all wires, cables, parts and cards that somehow are connected too the MoBo.
Also in a proper circuit design the real earth is not connected and/or used as a ground. But I think in PC’s the real earth and the ground ( 0 volt) are connected.

So probably ‘the dirt’ of ‘the dirty parts’ will somehow reach the clean section and spoil it.
So my main strategy is to avoid dirty components everywhere as much as possible (if no dirt is generated, it can’t spread). Or use a less dirty one (less dirt). Dirty components that easily can be avoided are: 230 AC ATX switching PSU’s and the use of motors in fans and HDD’s.

Two months ago I did an experiment. I put 3.3 Volt DC on a 5 Volt pin in the P24 connector. This 3.3 Volt DC showed up everywhere on the MoBo, HDD, cards, casing, ect. No matter where I put my Multimeter the 3.3 Volt DC was found everywhere.

So know I see some relevance in RME stressing in their product specs that their soundcards use ground free transformer coupled digital output connectors. And also in Cics recommendation too preferably use a high quality toslink connection (and an interface + DAC with a high quality optical sending and receiving units)

* Grounding
So to answer your grounding questions and taking in account the above, that’s a really though one. There are so many unknown grounding routes and unkown real earth connections.
For me it’s impossible too give a specific tip or advice.
After ready this post, I hope some other more knowledgeable inmates have some more thoughts about grounding.


But i can tell you what I do on grounding in my setup.
1) I connect the casings of both linear PSU’s together with an wire.

2) I try to sink ‘dirt’ on the DC lines and on the 0 Volt lines (gnd). I do this by placing capacitors, which (hopefully) shunt high frequency AC too a real earth connection. (as they also do in mains filter circuit designs)
I place this capacitance before Pico PSU’s on the 12 + 0 Volt DC lines, and after the Pico PSU’s on the 3.3, 5 Volt and 0 Volt DC lines.

3) Since dirty AC high frequency also can travel trough a transformer, I decided too start using a high quality toslink connection. This way too be sure too have a real good galvanic isolation.

Hope this helped somehow.

Mark

 

RE: Some thoughts on grounding and grounding as I do in my setup, posted on January 5, 2011 at 17:39:16
EmailTim


 
Hi Mark,

Thanks for your feedback.

I have been considered trying a 1156 mobo next after experimenting with this one. I see the SandyBridges will be using a 1155 socket and is supposed to support higher bandwidth on the PCIe bus than the 1156 which could reduce some contention. Time will tell.

The Granite Power Supplies should be arriving tomorrow so I will be testing them next.

I have 120 power here and use Equi=Tech balanced power conditioners on my audio equipment. If I find suitable 3-prong 12V linear power supplies to subsititue for the PICO brick(s), the combination may prove fruitful.

Sincerely,
Tim

 

RE: Some thoughts on grounding and grounding as I do in my setup, posted on January 6, 2011 at 03:49:54
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 hi mark,

thank you for this very informative posting.

also I have now got the XT150 PICO PSU that I hope to install very soon, but I wonder why you use two PICO´s ?
my impression was that USB is powered via the motherboard.

the way I plan to implement my new PICO is to power the P4 from a linear 12V supply; feed the harddisk from a regular external unit like the granite; and another linear supply for the PICO in the P24 slot.
I use only USB for the wireless mouse.

does this sound sensible ?

kind regards


Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

In the cMP concept the USB is powered separately, posted on January 6, 2011 at 06:10:25
hfavandepas
 Hi Playmate,

“Does this sound sensible ?”

Well, it’s not 100% by the cMP-concept. The cMP concept recommends too use an extra USB-bracket. By doing so the USB-ports on the bracket can be powered separately.
See item # 13 here: http://www.cicsmemoryplayer.com/index.php?n=CMP.05Components#mobo.
( On the software side of things: I also disable all not used Universal USB Host Controllers)


Using 2 linear PSU sounds sensible too me.
I also used too power my MoBo that way.
But a don’t like the 90-260 Volt AC powered Granite’s digital PSU inside my PC case.
I really cannot see why some one would want 90-260 Volt (unshielded) AC wires running inside their PC alongside with delicate 3.3, 5 and 12 Volt DC power lines.

So that is why I started to use the extra Pico.
But using this extra Pico, also allowed me too follow Cics concept of putting all ‘dirty’ components on a separate PSU and using another dedicated PSU (the so called ‘clean’ PSU) too exclusively power the P24.

Cics describes this concept by using two conventional 230 V AC ATX PSU’s.
But since ATX PSU’s have a notorious reputation of throwing a lot of ‘dirt’ around. Into the 3.3, 5 and 12 Volt DC lines, as well as back into the 230 AC lines that feed them, I try too avoid the use of these ATX PSU’s.
Instead, I implement this scenario with the use of two PICO PSU’s. The PICO’s still are also switchers, but I hope they don’t throw so much ‘dirt’ around, as there bigger standard 230 AC ATX PC PSU cousins do.

But please keep in mind I have no education or degree in electronics ( I’m just a passionate hobbyist). I just ‘creatively’ follow this recipe and share it at this forum. Hoping that more knowledgeable inmates comment on it and/ or give useful suggestions.


This way I end up with two linear powered XT150 PICO PSU.
These XT150 leave the 12 v DC line untouched and just pass it on. One can check this easily by varying the 12 V DC input. The 12 V DC output varies exactly in the same way.

* the power supply chain for ‘dirty’ components than looks like this:
Linear PSU -> XT150 PICO PSU -> HDD or SSD
......................................................-> DVD
......................................................-> USB Bracket
......................................................-> P4 (but I prefer too tap the 12 V DC tap directly from the linear PSU)

* the power supply chain for ‘clean’ components (P24) than looks like this:
Linear PSU -> XT150 PICO PSU -> P24

About ‘smooting’ & ‘filtering/ sinking’ dirt.
On both supply power lines I use smoothing caps like they are used with regular ATX PSU.
But the XT150 PICO PSU’s don’t tolerate high value’s.
I also try to ‘sink’ High Frequencies on 3.3, 5 and 12 Volt DC lines and 0 Volt lines too a real earth. (for instance like this is done in mains filters)

Right now I study how too use LC style filters that can be used on the 3.3, 5 and 12 Volt DC lines and 0 Volt lines. But lacking advanced knowledge about electronics , this is extremely complicated for me. I cannot find much information on how too keep the LC filter resistance (R) extremely low and also on how too effectively prevent the filter from resonating.
Using Google I haven’t found any circuit examples on how too use such LC style filters when powering the P24 socket (so on the 3.3, 5 and 12 Volt DC lines, 0 Volt lines).
Also on this forum there not much response too this approach. Most knowledgeable and skillful inmates, (understandably) all go for the ‘full linear route / approach”.
But for less skilled inmates it should be not too hard too build an LC filter and use that between the PSU and the MoBo.
The only thing I need is a well designed LC circuit for this purpose.

Your approach sounds sensible too me.
Accept for not using the recommended separately powered USB bracket.
I also would not like a 230 AC volts powered Granite inside my PC case
(although it is recommended in the cMP concept).

Mark

 

What are good linear power supply specs ??, posted on January 6, 2011 at 18:13:20
EmailTim
 Hi Mark,

How do you judge/pick a linear power supply?

I have found these Acopian PS but don't know what a good ripple specs are.

Their High Performance A model ripple numbers, are 0.25 mV RMS with a regulation of +/-0.005%.

Thanks,
Tim

 

Those specs are spectacular, however..., posted on January 7, 2011 at 06:00:35
hfavandepas
 Hi Tim,

I’m far from an expert on this matter. So i’m not the right person too answer your question with some real and in depht knowledge.

I know from comparison that only just 0.25mV is a very good spec! and 0.005% is also very good. But than again, these are so good, that I suspect them only too be applicable for some optimized and limited working range/situation.

I also understand that ripple and regulation are important specs, but also that they unfortunately only show just small part of the bigger picture.
From what I understand it’s also very important that the DC output is free from AC noise (50-60 Hz power hum + there harmonics and also free from (very) high frequency noise + there harmonics).
But unfortunately no manufacturer or vendor gives any useful information on this. Even very respectable manufacturers like TTi (Thurlby Thandar Instruments). I bought a second hand TTi PL330TP as a reference. But I also bought 3 other linear PSU’s ranging from 34 euro’s till 85 euro’s. I think (!!) the cheapest one, sounds just a little less. But I can’t hear any differences between the 85 euro one and the 670 euro’s TTi.

So I chose them on reputation (from what I read from other inmates). But that is also a not so reliable source. Many just repeat what they have heard from others. And also every inmate has his own acquired taste on what sounds good. Many inmates like an ‘airy’, ‘creamy’, ‘silky’, ‘tube-like’ sound character. Which I don’t like. IMHO it has little too do with accurate reproduction. But I must admit, it sounds very enjoyable.

I think the Velleman PS1503SB, at which Cics pointed a while ago, is a good choice.
The specs are not spectaculair, but to me it sounds the same as the TTi.

Mark

 

RE: Linear PSU again: help needed, posted on January 7, 2011 at 15:27:01
gene_
Audiophile

Posts: 39
Location: South London
Joined: November 22, 2009



Hi guys,
I installed PIO caps on +12 volt CPU line, ( two 6mf caps) but no any good result this time , even added another 47 mf non-polarised cap , not make improvement. Just for experiment I connected my 45 Amp lead battery by short, 150 mm 8 AWG wire to 60 mm long strip of PCB wich is soldered to MoBo- nothing changed. Only option I see now -replace switching regulators. First I am going to try with memory, as JackWrong
did, but will use LT1083 regulator, feeding from original 5 volt spot.
Memory 1.85 volt spot, I find on MoBo ( maybe it is not memory spot ?) very noisy -same as CPU , you can see on picture .

For 3.3 volt MoBo I added two 6mf PIO caps , this give me litlle bit improvement .
Level of a noise same by analyzer , but reading in mv better ( 1.6 mv vs. 3.0mv).
Adding 47 mf non-polarised cap reduced noise just on -2db. Sound- wise I cant see any difference.

Gene.

 

RE: Linear PSU again: help needed, posted on January 7, 2011 at 16:47:37
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Jack is not Wrong but Wong ;)
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: Linear PSU again: help needed, posted on January 8, 2011 at 01:47:40
gene_
Audiophile

Posts: 39
Location: South London
Joined: November 22, 2009
 Thanks Mihaylov, sorry Jack !

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on January 10, 2011 at 05:52:50
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 dear cMP experts

one thing has bugged my system for a long while (from the start almost) and now it´s just driving me nuts....

when I ask the cMP to re-boot XP and the "normal" minlogon´ed XP comes up, I have to wait an eternety to let the explorer settle before I can access any files....or very often the explorer window just freezes.

can´t figure out what I need to re-install to make this working half-way decent.
-any ideas ?


kind regards
Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on January 10, 2011 at 07:14:52
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Just a suggestion but can't you avoid explorer altogether and do your file search with cmp?

 

Just checking: did you disable the Windows logon welcome screen?, posted on January 10, 2011 at 07:19:17
hfavandepas
 Hi Play-mate


Just checking:

Did you disable the Windows logon welcome screen?

" start cMP switches to cMP mode. Windows registry is changed. This is the purist way of running cMP. This mode only works if the Welcome screen is NOT used, otherwise Windows locks."

( see http://www.cicsmemoryplayer.com/index.php?n=CMP.11CMPShell )

Mark

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on January 10, 2011 at 07:56:40
audiodan@tiscali.it
Audiophile

Posts: 108
Location: Cagliari - Sardinia
Joined: July 7, 2009
 Can you try to disinstall and reinstall cMP shell only? It's a strange behaviour. But XP, without cMP2, is it working properly? Otherwise I think it will be better to reinstall the whole system (a very boring affair.....)
I'm sorry

 

More Cores and/or More Cache any better ???, posted on January 10, 2011 at 19:19:43
EmailTim
 I see that many of these chips are rated at 65watt TDP.

Would chips with more Cores and/or more Cache work better for audio ???

Thanks,
Tim

 

Lynx Studio L22 upgrade, posted on January 11, 2011 at 15:48:02
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 I've uploaded the document. Sound tests probably will later.
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

Thanks! (nt), posted on January 12, 2011 at 02:51:45
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 .

 

RE: Lynx Studio L22 upgrade, posted on January 12, 2011 at 05:04:57
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 ????

upload what ?

-can we get a bit more info on what this is about ?
Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: Lynx Studio L22 upgrade, posted on January 12, 2011 at 06:57:28
smicyta
Audiophile

Posts: 125
Joined: February 19, 2010
 It's a documentation on implementing transformer analog output and external power supply for the Lynx L22 sound card.

 

RE: Lynx Studio L22 upgrade, posted on January 12, 2011 at 08:44:37
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 It would be interesting to hear from Mihaylov how this mod has influenced the sound.

 

RE: Lynx Studio L22 upgrade, posted on January 12, 2011 at 14:32:17
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 My friend replaced "Sound card ESI Juli (the digital part is used only, analogue part is disconnected) with external precision clock LClock XO 3 on frequency 24,5760 MHz, BNC socket (spdif out) and additional filtering capacitors Elna Cerafine" (http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/7/72756.html) and "DAC: Musical Fidelity A3.24 (output capacitors are replaced with BG NX)" (http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/7/72919.html) by Lynx Studio L22 (stock) with analog outputs. He could not listen his system after that :). The sound became noticeably worse. After the mod the sound became better than with Juli and MF. Now my friend simply enjoys music.


Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: Lynx Studio L22 upgrade, posted on January 12, 2011 at 17:29:01
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Mihaylov,

Thanks for sharing. It looks like you did a very good job modifying this card. From my experiences doing similar mods to the ESI Juli@, I bet it will sound very good.

I do think this is a good option for an all-in-one cMP machine. I was and am still amazed at how good the lowly Juli@'s analog out sounded with separate power and upgraded regulators & caps. Someday I'll do one where I bypass the output mixers & their op amps... I bet it'll be very good.

You're doing some interesting mods/upgrades. Keep doing your show & tells!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: The ground wire connection to the P24 ground did it, posted on January 15, 2011 at 11:42:44
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 I have configured my pc to use cMP as per the recommendations on the site. Implied Minlogon as well. But since last evening, none of the USB ports work. If I connect my USB hdd, it gets powered but does not appear in "My Computer", nor does the wireless mouse work. What has gone wrong???

Junaid

 

RE: The ground wire connection to the P24 ground did it, posted on January 15, 2011 at 18:47:10
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Read, please, more attentively "Step 4 – disable unused USB hubs & controllers" here http://www.cicsmemoryplayer.com/index.php?n=CMP.07Optimisations. Probably you disabled the necessary usb ports.
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: The ground wire connection to the P24 ground did it, posted on January 16, 2011 at 04:51:59
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 No. All USB ports are enabled. When I connect my USB hard disk it powers up, but it does not get recognised in windows. So does the wireless mouse. They worked fine just a day earlier...

Junaid

 

RE: The ground wire connection to the P24 ground did it, posted on January 16, 2011 at 07:31:35
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 When I connect my USB hard disk, it powers up but it does not get recognised in windows.

If all the USB ports are definitely enabled, you could try re-enabling the Logical Disk Management service (assuming of course you have disabled it) and taking a look at what it reports. If LDM sees the drive but Windows in general doesn't, it's a known Windows bug (that will certainly, definitely be fixed in SP106).

Change the drive letter [Action > All Tasks > Change Drive Letters] and try again. I get this all the time when hooking backup drives in and out of various boxes.

If that doesn't work (and to help retrieve your mouse), go into Device Manager and see if the devices are recognised there. At least until you retrieve the thing, I'd be minded to use a wired mouse.

You should see the drive under Disk drives, the mouse under Mice and other pointing devices and both under Universal Serial Bus controllers.

They worked fine just a day earlier...

That's probably why you didn't post a day earlier . . . :)

BTW, have you checked that the HDD works fine on a different computer?? Especially as it's bus-powered, I'd be minded to check. Bus-powered drives can be moody.

HTH

Dave

 

RE: The ground wire connection to the P24 ground did it, posted on January 16, 2011 at 07:45:53
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 Yes the hdd works perfectly fine on my other computers. I will do as u said & post back...

Junaid

 

RE: The ground wire connection to the P24 ground did it, posted on January 16, 2011 at 10:52:56
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 Just connected a USB pendrive to the port ( flash drive). It performs normally, but the USB hdd does not. The USB root hub has reserved only 200ma for each port. Seems too low I guess. Can this be the cause??

Junaid

 

Linear 1.85v to DDRII for G31M-S2L, posted on January 16, 2011 at 10:58:47
gene_
Audiophile

Posts: 39
Location: South London
Joined: November 22, 2009



Hi guys, I going to replace switched regulators on MoBo . First done, with good result.
Strangely for me, current on 1.85 volt line is 2.1 A , but memory KVR400D2N3/512
should take only 0.8Amp.!
MoBo +5 volt line, has a current draw now 3.7Amp., 1 Amp. more . LT1083 turn to heat about 6 WA ( 2.1A * 3,15V ) ,so I install heat sink outside, on bottom extension,.
to my low-profile computer case. Temporaly use Intell CPU sink.
Oscilloscope show excelent result, will send picture.
Many Thanks to JackWong for his pioneering!
Gene.
PS. Picture showing my old MoBo .

 

RE: Linear 1.85v to DDRII for G31M-S2L, posted on January 16, 2011 at 11:25:08
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Hi Gene! This is very interesting. But what about sound changing.
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: Linear 1.85v to DDRII for G31M-S2L, posted on January 16, 2011 at 11:42:06
gene_
Audiophile

Posts: 39
Location: South London
Joined: November 22, 2009



First, I just unsoldered only one K3918 , upper on picture and it work , oscilloscope showed only linear ( no digital spike) .Maybe posible even without unsoldering , just a feed 1.85v and K3918 will be stoped ?
Gene.

 

RE: Linear 1.85v to DDRII for G31M-S2L, posted on January 16, 2011 at 12:10:07
gene_
Audiophile

Posts: 39
Location: South London
Joined: November 22, 2009



Hi Mihaylov,
I think bass better , more controlled at least that is what on my mind , after first 10 second listening , clearer. I am very happy with improvement , did ordered 6 more
LT1083 after listening, now I realise , there no need so many. Did find one more " dirty"
spot on MoBo plus for CPU , but it will be chalenge. Still not figured out about CPU , help will be usefull.
Picture show as it was before.
Gene.

 

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