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cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player

41.183.0.21
Posted on December 30, 2007 at 05:42:01
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
cMP

The open source high-end Memory Player

December 2007

Music delivery is perfected. cMP (cics Memory Player) delivers memory playback (without RAMDisk or other utilities) thereby eliminating disk interference during playback.

In creating cMP, its critical objective was the implementation of fundamental designs that:

  1. Remove disk traffic interference during playback without having the inconvenience of manually loading files into a virtual RAM drive, etc..
  2. Ensure time critical sample delivery to the external DAC. Streaming of samples from precision upsampled (to 24/96) sound buffers to the soundcard must be fast, lean and mean! There's no room for any bottlenecks or overheads here, otherwise we risk increasing jitter and compromise Bit Transparency.
  3. Provide better power supply and remove the need for a ferrite core on the mouse connection.
  4. Provide flexibility to choose any player (Foobar2000, Winamp etc.).
  5. Further minimize the Windows footprint to that more optimal than XP's Embedded SP2 operating system as used in large scale commercial applications. This provides the foundation for the 2nd design goal.
  6. Offer a CD/DVD-ROM drive without impacting sound quality.
  7. Offer proper remote usability as locating that mouse cursor from a distance is cumbersome.
  8. Contain costs but also allow for a complete elegant one box solution.

Such designs in theory should render a stunning sonic experience. Its implementation however was a massive challenge. Did this theory meet the sonic expectations? Yes as evidenced in cMP's bit perfect performance and ultra low jitter.

How does it sound? The most descriptive word that comes to mind is emotional. cMP's sonic purity is truly profound. It grips those musical lines across any genre with remarkable precision. Soundstage improves, there's better layering and even more ambient information. Bass is tighter, with natural vocals & instruments.

FRONT



BACK



More pictures and screenshots are available from the cMP documentation link provided below.

FEEDBACK

Pre-release testing by music lovers located all over the world yielded further insight and perfection of cMP.

  • A music lover based in the US with limited or no computer training:

    This has been a great way to learn about computers in addition to making something very useful for enjoying music.

    Compared to my ###### (read expensive high-end traditional CD transport), even with some tweaking and learning left to do, this sounds much better. Dynamic, yet relaxed (effortless?).

    I started listening last night at 7:00 and had to force myself to go to bed at twelve. Amazing spaciousness. It is truly getting close to GREAT analog and is much better than average analog already. It is simply amazing.

    I found your instructions easy to follow ONCE I understood what I was being told to do. To repeat, I have never done anything like this before, so your instructions were clear without resorting to "hand holding". I think the process was easier than you warned. I kept saying to myself, "that wasn't so bad!"

    After cMP:

    My only audio friends are very analogue-centric. Sometime in January I am going to have them over to audition the cMP. I think they are going to be amazed. Of course, I am confident that JULI@ is going to be the icing on the cake. If this takes the whole thing another step closer I think they will be grateful that one can enjoy listening to CD's as much as LP's. Of course, in many ways your approach does things even LP's cannot do. It is becoming a toss-up, but the best kind; one can enjoy either one equally well!

  • A music lover based in Europe with more than 2000 CDs:

    the quality of sound reproduction is quite amazing. My motivation for building was that I am not wealthy and could never dream of, let alone buy, a high-end CD player. Even this project was considerably more than I could properly afford and I began it with some trepidation. But it's been well worth it.

    After cMP:

    I spent several hours last night testing the latest cMP. I did several A/B runs with cMP on the one hand and Foobar launched via old batch files and reading direct from disk on the other. There is no doubt in my mind that the sound using cMP is a significant improvement even with my modest setup.

    The quality is quite stunning, significantly better than previous. (My partner agrees with this - she's no audio junkie but she is an informed music lover.)

  • A music lover based in Australia:

    I have been wanting to relay to you my own experience with your methods and give you some feedback . So far, I have found your approach produces very good results so I must convey to you my thanks and appreciation. At some point soon I will formalise my thoughts and send them to you or post them. I believe what you have done has become an excellent resource/asset to people interested in PC Audio.


FEATURES

  1. Disk traffic interference during playback is eliminated. Advanced RAM playback is based on available physical RAM (as reported by Task Manager or Process Explorer). This means up to 4GB (XP's limit) can be used allowing for 24/192 RAM playback. Recommendation is to use 1GB RAM (which yields available physical RAM of ~830MB - enough for any CD at 16/44.1). cMP achieves memory playback via the system cache and not through a simulated virtual drive. This approach removes Windows disk I/O overheads (irrespective of whether disk is physical or virtual) hence, it's more optimal.

  2. Extensive Windows & Player (Foobar2000 or other) optimizations yielding much lower jitter and bit perfect delivery. System level optimizations are done at runtime (which cannot be achieved using .bat files and utilities like Process Explorer). cMP is designed to work with 32 CPU cores!

  3. Open architecture. cMP allows for any player to be used: Foobar2000, XXHighEnd, Winamp etc. (player just needs to handle .cue files like foobar2000 otherwise play entire .wav). Any ripper software can be used (as long as it conforms to .cue single file standard like those created by EAC). Additional flexibility is provided, for example use cMP to drive your HTPC playing any movie from any genre (a .cue file for each .iso file is needed).

  4. All .cue files are processed by cMP which means the player focuses only on playing the CD. In Foobar2000, the album list control component is not needed. In techno speak this is called separation of concerns.

  5. Power delivery to the mobo is improved by further reducing interference. The need for a ferrite core is removed.

  6. Full function remote control using a wireless mouse is achieved. Your entire library can be navigated: play any CD, eject it, jump to any track or change volume. This is achieved using just ONE mouse button: the Wheel! Use the mouse as a normal one (left-click) or hold it in your hand (like a remote control) and wheel away using your thumb. Of course other buttons are used for more convenience. There's no need to find that tiny mouse cursor and left click! (You can still do this if needed).

  7. Your entire library that you so diligently ripped is fully compatible with cMP. No proprietary / lock-in stuff here which forces you to re-rip. Just point cMP to your music folders containing .cue and .wav files (or flac or other). cMP supports any content file as long as cue files are defined for them. For flac content files, the known EAC bug of adding an additional .flac suffix to the content file's name must be removed (otherwise your cue's content file directive will not be found).

  8. CD/DVD-ROM drive is implemented without compromising playback quality. For the purist, this can be unplugged without opening computer or rebooting.

Bottom line: cMP is a (one box) highly advanced memory player that's easy to setup and use. cMP's core strength lies in newly developed operating system software components (built in c/c++) that uses XP SP 2 as a foundation. Windows Explorer is done away with while cMP takes over and more. Bit perfect delivery is achieved yielding an ultra high resolution of more than 23.5 bits (a limitation in measuring instruments prevents measuring cMP's perfect resolution). DAC's have yet to achieve this resolution (as a minimum of 141db SNR is needed)! For cMP's bit perfect measurements, see (Bit Perfect Measurement & Analysis ).


GETTING STARTED

Visit cicsMemoryPlayer.com where you'll find detailed easy to follow instructions and much more.

Ensuring clean AC power delivery to equipment is very important. For DAC, pre-amp and amplifiers, use a dedicated AC circuit. For source equipment, use another AC circuit as this is where cMP's main PSU should be powered from. Use another less important AC circuit for powering cMP's 2nd dirty power inlet. Use of quality power cords and line conditioners is recommended.


Special thanks to those that provided such brilliant feedback and suggestions during pre-release testing. cMP's software is at version 1.0b as more feedback is desired. Your input, insights, criticisms, experiences and suggestions all help.

Thank you.

 

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    ...
-12v not needed for GA-G31M-S2L motherboard startup... , posted on July 25, 2010 at 20:22:31
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001



(Note that I also posted this in the fully-linear supply sub-thread below).

I was putting my original Linear-Hybrid supply back together this weekend so I can make some comparisons to my fully linear supply and also try running the P4 from a supply that's plugged into my 'dirty' AC line.

When I was testing it, I saw that the -12v was not working... it only registered about -3v.

Then I remembered that early in my PSU experimentation, I'd damaged the -12v output on a PicoPSU when poking around to find the voltages in a Juli@. At the time I'd replaced that PicoPSU, but later put it back into the system when I went to separate power for my Juli@ & DAC.

Although I didn't remember this, my system has been starting up with a very low -voltage since about this time last year!

So I tried starting up the system with the fully linuear supply with the -12v (9v battery) not on... and it worked ok.

Gene, not sure why this didn't work for you, but it works very consistently for me.

Gene, Mihaylov, and Mark, can you retest this with the GA-G31M-ES2L boards?

JackWong, can you check with the GA-H55M-UD2H board?

If it works with these newer boards, it will simplify the setup of fully linear supplies by eliminating the need for one voltage!

I've unplugged my -9v battery!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: -12v not needed for GA-G31M-S2L motherboard startup... , posted on July 25, 2010 at 22:08:20
audiofanatic
 This would be very interesting, I will follow this thread to see what results you get. I am planning to go with the Pico in my audiopc and this info whill be very usefull.

 

Where would we be without brilliant mistakes?, posted on July 26, 2010 at 12:30:20
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I figure, at least, half of discoveries are due to this excellent mechanism.

I know I was glad to a 9 volts battery could be used and now this: better still!

I have made my first foray into linear supplies with a choke input supply for the JULI@. Followed by another LC section to get my five volts. I like the idea of the chokes blocking all of the high frequency noise going in either direction (or at least I think so!).

I love traditional supplied with tube amps and pre-amps so I thought WHY NOT?

One needs an eight volts, around 50 VA transformer to get it. Using low resistance chokes (8 ohms).

Another thing I would like to add is within the Mihaylov supply I would like to suggest a refinement. I think I will stick with the three terminal regulators here but instead of cascading voltage regulators I would think it better to have the first one wired as a constant current device and let the second unit do the voltage setting. I have seen this done so many times in the past I figure there must be something to it. I first came across this idea from Allen Wright's preamp cookbook.

Thanks for your report,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: -12v not needed for GA-G31M-S2L motherboard startup... , posted on July 26, 2010 at 14:42:51
gene_
Audiophile

Posts: 39
Location: South London
Joined: November 22, 2009
 Hi Greg,
Several time battery was dead ( 5-6 volt, I forget switchet off)
and computer refuse to start. I find solution ,using wall plug PSU
for -12volt, and happy with this. I am going to buy second, Auto Lead acid battery to be completely dicconected from AC.
Gene.

 

Corrected BIOS instructions and 512 mB memory notes, posted on July 27, 2010 at 17:12:36
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 My excitement led to errors. My apologies.

ADVANCED CPU Core SETTINGS

CPU Cores enabled 1
CPU Multi-threading ENABLED
CPU Enhanced Halt DISABLED
c3/c6/c7 State Support DISABLED
CPU Thermal Monitor DISABLED
CPU EIST Function DISABLED
Bi-Directional PROCHOT DISABLED

ACPI Suspend Type S1(pos)
USB DEVICE Wake up from S3 ENABLED
Soft off by PWR BTTN INSTANT Off
PME Event Wake Up DISABLED
Power on by Ring DISABLED
Resume by Alarm DISABLED
HPET SUPPORT ENABLED
Power on by Mouse DISABLED
POWER on by Keyboard DISABLED
AC Back Function Soft off
EuP Support DISABLED


SATA AHCI Mode leave alone for now
SATA Port0-3 Native Mode ENABLED
USB Controllers ENABLED
USB Legacy Functions ENABLED
USB Storage Function ENABLED
AZALIA Codec DISABLED
Onboard H/W Lan DISABLED
Outboard IDE Controller DISABLED
Onboard Serial Port 1 DISABLED


Quick Boot DISABLED
HDD SMART DISABLED
Limit CPUID limit to 3 DISABLED
No Execute Memory Protect DISABLED
Dealt for HDD 0
Back Up BIOS image to HDD DISABLED
Onboard VGA Always Enable
INIT Display First Onboard
On Chip Frame Buffer Size` 32mB



Load Line Calibration DISABLED
CPU Score 0.65 V
QPI/VTT 1.05 V
Graphics Core 0.65 V
PCH Core 0.950 V
CPU PLL 1.60 V
DRAM Voltage 1.56 V
rest - as is


System Memory Multiplier 6.0
Performance Enhance Standard
DRAM Timing AUTO



CPU Clock Ratio 9
QPI Clock Ration 24
Spread Spectrum DISABLED
Base Clock Control ENABLED
BCLK Frequency 100
Extreme Memory Profile DISABLED
System Memory Multiplier 6
rest - as is

Got the 512mB KINGSTTON VALUE RAM and in CPUZ these are the numbers down the row:
5
4
4
11
26
2T

CPUZ identifies the memory as KINGSTON with the following part number:
9905402-003 A00LF - I find nothing (so far) on the web that tells me anything. it does work but I can give no indication of how it sounds since I have not got to that point yet.

Any comments?

Thanks,

Rick McInnis

PS I figure cics is either on vacation or about to release a new version of cPLAY!!!

 

Things I learned last nite..., posted on July 27, 2010 at 17:49:48
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 EDIT: Updated comments on sound of fully-linear supply below...

Linear-Hybrid Supply:




I went through a series of experiments with my fully-linear and linear-hybrid supplies last night... Found out some very interesting stuff & made one breakthrough!

1st, I did a quick swap of the supplies after the computer and system warmed up (I normally leave it on all the time, but we had a chance of thunderstorms during the day yesterday). Interesting to compare the two supplies. The linear-hybrid was closer than I remembered. It had a warmer balance than the fully-linear supply (With VERY similar parts!), but the fully-linear won on detailing and definition all across the spectrum AND I would judge it to be more neutrally-balanced... The linear-hybrid reminded me of a good, but not SOTA tube stage while the fully-linear was a SOTA tube stage.

A large portion of that more neutral balance on the fully-linear supply is a more-level treble. The linear-hybrid is a bit recessed in the treble... it's as if it slopes down slightly from the bass to the treble. The fully-linear does not sound as tho the treble is emphasized or too high in balance... if anything, it may still be a tiny bit lower in level than neutral (I'm very sensitive to treble anomolies, within the range of hearing of an audiophile in their mid-50's!).

I'd suggested originally that the fully-linear supply was not nearly as large of an upgrade over the linear-hybrid as that was over a modified Antec-430. Later I reported that that it was nearly so. This comparison last night confirmed my first impression. Again, based on what I heard, I'd suggest the linear-hybrid using very high-quality parts as a very good upgrade to a computer audio setup with less cost, bulk, and operational hassle than the simple fully-linear supply I implemented. But the fully-linear supply really is better... And worthwhile if you want the ultimate! And I expect it to be even better with better regulators... And also with battery power.

An aside, the two supplies are built with very similar parts... But there are a few differences that would favor the fully-linear. Most notably is that I used the very nice IXYS DSEP30-06A rectifiers in the fully-linear, but the still very good, but not as detailed-sounding Motorola MSR860 in the linear-hybrid supply. I know the sonic difference between these two diodes in this application as I'd swapped out the DSEP30-06A's for MSR860's while debugging the fully-linear supply, then changed back when I realized the diodes were not the problem AND that the DSEP30-06A's were more detailed (and less warm... Hmmmm?).

The other differences which I think will be less significant are that the fully-linear supply uses 47,000uf Jensen 4-pole caps while the linear-hybrid uses 15,000uf caps of the same type. Then the fully-linear uses adjustable LT1083 regulators all around while the linear-hybrid currently has a fixed LT1083 on the P4 supply. Back when I first built the linear-hybrid, it had 2 fixed LT1083's, but I upgraded them to the adjustable and that was a minor, but noticably upgrade. But that position's adjustable LT1083 got stolen while I was debugging the fully-linear and it was easier to put a fixed LT1083 back in this likely less-sonically important position when I put the linear-hybrid back together.

2nd, I tried to start up a GA-G31M-ES2L board with both the linear-hybrid supply with the damaged -12v and the fully-linear supplies with the -12v(-9v) deactivated. Yes I got the same results a Gene reported, in that the board required the -12v (-9v) to start, again different than the S2L board that will start with that voltage off.

3rd, I have been running the fully-linear supply with a small, separate 5v supply to provide the 5v control voltages for 5vSB and PWR_OK. I had previously upgraded the capacitors on that supply from Elna Silmec to Black Gate Standards and heard an difference (I'd rate it as an improvement as I prefer the BG sound to the Silmec sound, but not everyone would). Last night I cut that supply out and powered those lines from the main high-current 5v supply. It was not as good in that configuration as with the separate supply (which was clearly more detailed, more real), so I put that back in.

4th, the breakthrough. While I had the fully linear supply out of the cMP case, I re-tried to make it work with a GA-EG45M-UD2H board which has the newer Dual-BIOS setup. I expect that the startup sequence of this board, where it starts up the power supply, then turns it off for a moment, then turns it back on, will also be needed for newer GA-H55M-UD2H board. I tried several combinations of manually switching the PWR_ON off and back on during the startup... And found this sequence to work:

- Turn on main power supply (activates the ATX 3.3v, 5v, 12v, 5vSB, and -12v(-9v battery) and the P4 12v)

- Press the power button

- Switch on the PWR_OK

- Wait 8-12 seconds, then switch off the PWR_OK for 1-2 seconds, then switch it back on

Although I have not tested it with the GA-H55M-UD2H board, this gives me a lot of confidence that the simple 2-switch setup I'm using will work with that board too!

That's all for last night!

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. Next experiments are to try the system using the linear-hybrid's P4 supply plugged into my 'dirty' AC line... And to try the LT3080 regulators on the fully-linear supply.
Everything matters!

 

Things I learned last nite..., posted on July 27, 2010 at 17:51:58
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 EDIT: Updated comments on sound of fully-linear supply below...

Linear-Hybrid Supply:




I went through a series of experiments with my fully-linear and linear-hybrid supplies last night... Found out some very interesting stuff & made one breakthrough!

1st, I did a quick swap of the supplies after the computer and system warmed up (I normally leave it on all the time, but we had a chance of thunderstorms during the day yesterday). Interesting to compare the two supplies. The linear-hybrid was closer than I remembered. It had a warmer balance than the fully-linear supply (With VERY similar parts!), but the fully-linear won on detailing and definition all across the spectrum AND I would judge it to be more neutrally-balanced... The linear-hybrid reminded me of a good, but not SOTA tube stage while the fully-linear was a SOTA tube stage.

A large portion of that more neutral balance on the fully-linear supply is a more-level treble. The linear-hybrid is a bit recessed in the treble... it's as if it slopes down slightly from the bass to the treble. The fully-linear though does not sound as if the treble is emphasized or too high in balance... if anything, it may still be a tiny bit lower in level than neutral (I'm very sensitive to treble anomolies, within the range of hearing of an audiophile in their mid-50's!).

I'd suggested originally that the fully-linear supply was not nearly as large of an upgrade over the linear-hybrid as that was over a modified Antec-430. Later I reported that that it was nearly so. This comparison last night confirmed my first impression. Again, based on what I heard, I'd suggest the linear-hybrid using very high-quality parts as a very good upgrade to a computer audio setup with less cost, bulk, and operational hassle than the simple fully-linear supply I implemented. But the fully-linear supply really is better... And worthwhile if you want the ultimate! And I expect it to be even better with better regulators... And also with battery power.

An aside, the two supplies are built with very similar parts... But there are a few differences that would favor the fully-linear. Most notably is that I used the very nice IXYS DSEP30-06A rectifiers in the fully-linear, but the still very good, but not as detailed-sounding Motorola MSR860 in the linear-hybrid supply. I know the sonic difference between these two diodes in this application as I'd swapped out the DSEP30-06A's for MSR860's while debugging the fully-linear supply, then changed back when I realized the diodes were not the problem AND that the DSEP30-06A's were more detailed (and less warm... Hmmmm?).

The other differences which I think will be less significant are that the fully-linear supply uses 47,000uf Jensen 4-pole caps while the linear-hybrid uses 15,000uf caps of the same type. Then the fully-linear uses adjustable LT1083 regulators all around while the linear-hybrid currently has a fixed LT1083 on the P4 supply. Back when I first built the linear-hybrid, it had 2 fixed LT1083's, but I upgraded them to the adjustable and that was a minor, but noticably upgrade. But that position's adjustable LT1083 got stolen while I was debugging the fully-linear and it was easier to put a fixed LT1083 back in this likely less-sonically important position when I put the linear-hybrid back together.

2nd, I tried to start up a GA-G31M-ES2L board with both the linear-hybrid supply with the damaged -12v and the fully-linear supplies with the -12v(-9v) deactivated. Yes I got the same results a Gene reported, in that the board required the -12v (-9v) to start, again different than the S2L board that will start with that voltage off.

3rd, I have been running the fully-linear supply with a small, separate 5v supply to provide the 5v control voltages for 5vSB and PWR_OK. I had previously upgraded the capacitors on that supply from Elna Silmec to Black Gate Standards and heard an difference (I'd rate it as an improvement as I prefer the BG sound to the Silmec sound, but not everyone would). Last night I cut that supply out and powered those lines from the main high-current 5v supply. It was not as good in that configuration as with the separate supply (which was clearly more detailed, more real), so I put that back in.

4th, the breakthrough. While I had the fully linear supply out of the cMP case, I re-tried to make it work with a GA-EG45M-UD2H board which has the newer Dual-BIOS setup. I expect that the startup sequence of this board, where it starts up the power supply, then turns it off for a moment, then turns it back on, will also be needed for newer GA-H55M-UD2H board. I tried several combinations of manually switching the PWR_ON off and back on during the startup... And found this sequence to work:

- Turn on main power supply (activates the ATX 3.3v, 5v, 12v, 5vSB, and -12v(-9v battery) and the P4 12v)

- Press the power button

- Switch on the PWR_OK

- Wait 8-12 seconds, then switch off the PWR_OK for 1-2 seconds, then switch it back on

Although I have not tested it with the GA-H55M-UD2H board, this gives me a lot of confidence that the simple 2-switch setup I'm using will work with that board too!

That's all for last night!

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. Next experiments are to try the system using the linear-hybrid's P4 supply plugged into my 'dirty' AC line... And to try the LT3080 regulators on the fully-linear supply.
Everything matters!

 

CMOS Checksum error when trying to access BIOS, posted on July 27, 2010 at 19:36:35
Julien43
Audiophile

Posts: 2828
Location: Western NC... Shelby
Joined: May 5, 2001
 I have cleared the CMOS values and still get the same error. I thought I could stumble my way through this but I can't even get started.

Does anyone have a suggestion?

TIA!

Julien

 

Update: No CMOS Checksum error.... BIOS set-up non-responsive, posted on July 28, 2010 at 03:28:07
Julien43
Audiophile

Posts: 2828
Location: Western NC... Shelby
Joined: May 5, 2001
 I have no idea what is going on! I can access the 1st page in BIOS set-up then it is like my keyboard locks up. then the screen times out and a blank screen with a cursor comes up.


HELP!

Julien

 

RE: CMOS Checksum error when trying to access BIOS, posted on July 28, 2010 at 05:00:00
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 Does anyone have a suggestion?

If you have already done so, apologies for wasting your time but try removing the MoBo's battery, leaving it out for 10 minutes and then replacing it. (It's worked for me more than once. No, I don't know why . . . )

HTH

 

RE: CMOS Checksum error when trying to access BIOS, posted on July 28, 2010 at 05:44:26
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 In addition to ryeland's suggestion I pull my mains plug at the iec end for several minutes and that seems to work for me (if you use any mains power that is).

 

RE: Update: No CMOS Checksum error.... BIOS set-up non-responsive, posted on July 28, 2010 at 07:39:13
gene_
Audiophile

Posts: 39
Location: South London
Joined: November 22, 2009
 Remove CMOS battery for 1 hour!
Gene.

 

RE: -12v not needed for GA-G31M-S2L motherboard startup... , posted on July 28, 2010 at 07:51:48
jackwong96
Audiophile

Posts: 219
Joined: April 20, 2010
 -12v is not needed for motherboard startup, but the Power OK is. -12V is required if you have a card which needs it, such as Julia.

 

RE: -12v not needed for GA-G31M-S2L motherboard startup... , posted on July 28, 2010 at 10:56:03
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 And what about +12v (for motherboard startup)?
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: -12v not needed for GA-G31M-S2L motherboard startup... , posted on July 28, 2010 at 18:58:49
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Interesting.

JackWong, your response reminded me that I forgot to check the GA-EG45M-UD2H board with no -12v... and of course, it worked ok.

So now we have the following data points:

Boards that can boot without -12v:

- GA-G31M-S2L
- GA-EG45M-UD2H
- GA-H55M-UD2H (JackWong, I assume that's the main board you've been using... let us know what your experience with other boards has been)

Boards that require -12v to boot:

- GA-G31M-ES2L

This just gets better & better!

And of course, the Juli@ only needs -12v if you are using the analog portion of the card. The digital only uses the 5v rail (and regulates that down to 3.3v internally for some chips).

Mihaylov, I haven't tried starting a Mobo without the +12v. I assumed it was needed, but looking at the power usage table JackWong published in this thread: http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=75904 , it may not be. Next time I have a chance to try it, I'll see if I can boot a board without it.

Greg in Mississippi



Everything matters!

 

RE: -12v not needed for GA-G31M-S2L motherboard startup... , posted on July 28, 2010 at 19:33:12
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Great! I can confirm that GA-G31M-ES2L require -12v and +12v to boot :(
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: -12v not needed for GA-G31M-S2L motherboard startup... , posted on July 28, 2010 at 19:55:25
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Oh well... thanks for trying!

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. I think the next direction for fun experimentation is in the extreme motherboard power supply bypassing & power feeds ala JackWong... That's why I'm sticking with the S2L boards for awhile, I have several spares and want to learn to do this on these older, less-valuable boards! I've let the magic smoke out a few times doing mods and even doing this cMP stuff... no need to do that with a bright, shiney new board!
Everything matters!

 

With JULI@ as digital only why not cut the 3.3 V traces also?, posted on July 28, 2010 at 20:05:38
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 One of those things that seems like a good idea.

Did not have room to mention the plus and minus 12 volts rails, too.

Seems like it would offer that much more isolation from the rest of the computer. Even with strictly linear supplies there are still the onboard regulators. I have no idea if they are switchers or not.

Any reason not to?

 

LOL!, posted on July 28, 2010 at 20:29:54
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 LOL!

I'd never call any of my mistakes brilliant, but this one was at least fortuitous!

But then of course, JackWong already knew this for everything but the ES2L board! Oh well, so much for 'new' discoveries!

I'm curious how your choke-filtered supply will work. I've been looking at John Swenson's computer supply... I can find a link to it if you haven't seen it. I get the feeling he does a very good job of designing a power supply that has accounted for all the important factors PLUS I get the impression he listens carefully too... a great (and all too rare) combo.

I'm fully intending to move to choke-filtered supplies. But that will have to wait until I re-case my setup... I just can't fit them into my current setup.

I am also curious about a comment you made a few weeks back. I got the impression you'd be doing this supply without regulators. I saw in another thread that Thorsten is doing that in some places, so there must be merit to it.. but it sounds a bit dangerous given any significant AC line voltage variation. Let us know how that works out.

On the alternative regulator scheme you mentioned, I'm planning to try something similar to that too, but not using three-terminal regulators. I'm hearing some very good things about shunt regulators and one of the more favored ones for DIY use is the Salas Simple Shunt from this thread:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/143693-simplistic-salas-low-voltage-shunt-regulator.html

But even better, in this thread, Salas shows his shunt circuit that'll provide sufficient current to handle the 5v ATX line:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/168631-5v-high-current-low-noise-regulator.html

While I doubt these will beat PH's offerings, they should be pretty good, better than most, and pretty inexpensive.

Later!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: With JULI@ as digital only why not cut the 3.3 V traces also?, posted on July 28, 2010 at 20:49:02
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Ah, Grasshopper... look very closely! The 3.3v PCI connections come already pre-cut on the Juli@!

Seriously, they aren't connected to the board, so there's nothing to cut. The digital side only uses the 5v and a single regulator to drop that down to 3.3v. Some chips on the digital side use the 5v, most use the regulated 3.3v. That regulator is a not-to-bad linear device, but SQ improves with a better regulator. I've used the Dexa one in the past and have a Paul Hynes one here for the one I'm working on slowly now. Others have had good luck with a battery for the 3.3v and I have one of them here to try also.

As for the +-12v lines, that's one where I think it won't make any difference... those lines are not used in the digital side and just get passed through to the analog card. But it wouldn't hurt to try... run it without cutting them at first, then do that and let us know if it makes a diff.

BTW, GA is not far from MS. You wanna try my linear-hybrid PSU out sometime? Shipping wouldn't be too bad. And as I report, it is actually surprisingly good compared to the fully linear supply, switchers or not!

Later!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: * NEW * Alternative approach to CPU (P4) power supply, posted on July 29, 2010 at 02:25:54
audiofanatic
 Somewhere on the forum I saw a powerconnector extension enabling to switch on 2 PSU's at the same time, if I remember it was with an extension of the green and black wire? Can somebody point me to the correct post?
Can I use the same idea with a Pico too, so simply using the green/black to switch-on another PSU?

 

I had not looked!, posted on July 29, 2010 at 09:20:53
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Stewart,

Thanks for the information.

That would have been much delicate work for nothing. I was looking at the list in Mihaylov's LINEAR COMPUTER SUPPLY article and not the board.

Thanks for the offer. I had used the PICO before, though I was using it with a giant battery instead of a AC based supply. I do remember that it sounded, to me, more different, than truly better. Of course, I was feeding a bit too much power to P4 with an unfettered battery.

I have not got the thing attached to the DAC or the line stage yet, anyway.

Powering JULI@ outside of the computer has been a rather interesting experience. I wonder if I have not completely cut the traces for the 5 volts. (?) Last night at turn on (after making some changes) I had BIOS failure. The system would not accept the recommended BIOS changes. I had to implement about half of them, and left CPU voltage at 0.75 volts to get it to turn on. I will make the rest of the changes in stages and see what happens.

Does any of that sound like a problem due to voltage leakage from the linear supply back into the MB to you?

Thanks again for the offer and all of the good advice.

Rick McInnis

 

RE: I had not looked!, posted on July 29, 2010 at 11:26:33
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Rick,
It does sound like you are feeding 5v back onto the MoBo... especially if the 5v that you are putting into the Juli@ is higher than that being fed to the MoBo by the SMPS (like 5.1v vs 4.95v).

What I do when I see an anomoly like you saw with the BIOS is to pull out the change (the modified Juli@), see if that causes it to go back to the original condition, and then if it does, troubleshoot the changed item (that darned JulI@).

Hopefully the MoBo is ok.

On cutting the fingers, I always cut them (funny that I've I've done this a number of times!) just where they get full width. I use a new hobby knife blade and put several layers of masking tape on either side of the finger I'm cutting to help keep from cutting the adjacent fingers. I do a single slice across the finger, but go over it several times to make sure it's cut all the way through. Then I test for lack of continuity with my meter.

Doing it as a single slice, I can (and have) done a solder bridge across the slice to restore the finger.

I will try to get pix later today, my regular camera doesn't do the tiny stuff well, but I've found that my cell phone does a pretty good job, so I may be able to capture them.

I'm sure you know that there are 8 +5v fingers to cut, four towards the front of the card and four towards the back.

You probably also have this diagram, but just in case, I use one from here:

http://pinouts.ru/Slots/PCI_pinout.shtml

And let's see if it comes through ok: (EDIT - It didn't, so I took it out. See it on the web link.

On the Pico, let me know if you'd like to try it. I hope to be done with it (except for use as a spare) after this weekend). I think the secret to it sounding good are:

1. Replacing the PicoPSU on-board caps with Black Gate N's (suggestion from Peter Daniel comments on DIYAudio).

2. Adding Black Gate N additional filtering across the 3.3v & 5v (this isn't shown in the pictures, I did it after that shot was snapped).

3. Using great components in the linear supply (oversized Hammond split-bobbin transformers, Jensen 4-pole main filtering caps, Black Gate Std output filters).

4. Using a separate raw DC & regulator for the 12v P4.

I need to try a battery setup too. JackWong suggested that LiPo sound better than Lead-Acid and I have some serious LiPo for my model airplane hobby. But I'd still regulate it to precisely 12v... those digital circuits on the MoBo (and on the Juli@ too, for that matter) don't tolerate large (> 1v) over or under-voltage situations.

Later!

Greg in Mississippi



Everything matters!

 

Thanks for the technique advice, posted on July 29, 2010 at 14:27:38
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 wish I had thought of that!

I feel sure your PICO set-up is exceedingly well thought out. I have never been one to have to try everything. I just get confused.

I feel confident the pure linear approach has to be better so I will slwoly creep along until I have it implemented. Nonetheless I do appreciate your generous offer.

Those exploding batteries seem to be intriguing. My philosophy has always been the more exotic and dangerous the device the better it has to sound. I am not trying to be funny. I am thinking of those mercury vapor rectifiers, the KEITH MONKS tonearm with the little mercury baths to eliminate the twisting of the lead wires, running gear without fuses (it does make a BIG difference), you get the idea.

Of course, batteries are controversial. I know you admire Peter Daniel's work as I do and he thinks they are a dead end, along with some other folks whose opinion I take very seriously. I think it all has to do with what the rest of your system is composed of, like everything else, since, as you say, everything matters, and everything matters individually and within the system.

Back to batteries, I do suspect that PD has not used BIG batteries and if you are not using high amp-hour one's you are wasting your time. But they are a pain because of the charging and these LiPo's require being placed in a bag to contain the possibility of an explosion. I do worry I would get tires of that. At least with lead/acid you can use one of those "tender" chargers and not have to worry. My phono stage of the moment uses the battery I bought for the PICO experiment ...

I wonder how much power the regulators require and how much quicker they would deplete the charge especially for the 5 volts rail. I will stick with AC.

Thanks again for the help and the offer,
Rick McInnis

 

Well Guys, I triedthe battery and powercord , posted on July 29, 2010 at 17:06:05
Julien43
Audiophile

Posts: 2828
Location: Western NC... Shelby
Joined: May 5, 2001
 I could tell that it reset because the LEDs on the board light for a couple of seconds. The machine still wont post. It tares the "Delete" command to go to the BIOS, any key press after that brings up a blank screen with a cursor. The keyboard is useless after that.

Do I need a RMA?

Julien

 

GREG, I could use your help, posted on July 29, 2010 at 19:09:47
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Sorry to call you by your last name on my last note.

Don't know what I was thinking.

Would you mind connecting a voltmeter to your JULI@'s power supply leads and measuring the voltage when you turn your machine off?

I have checked everything possible and am 99% sure I have no leakage from JULI@'s 5 volts tabs into the MB, yet when I turn off the machine my voltage will drop as if it is being sinked into the MB. I cannot imagine what would cause this.

Not having any problems with the machine coming up tonight. Running fine though I am still needing to install another (higher voltage)transformer to get the voltage right. I have no idea of how it sounds but it runs fine with 4.5 volts. Using my traditional choke input supply the voltage goes all over the place at start up but settles down to a solid reading.

With traditional supplied one must do some experimenting to get the voltages right. Next thing to try is a nine volts secondary. Hope that is the one.

Not sure if your regulated supply will eliminate what I observe at turn off but when the mood strikes I would appreciate you seeing what happens.

If there is not voltage change, maybe you could do a current measurement?
(I thought while I was asking ...)

Thanks,

Rick McInnis

 

You just might, posted on July 29, 2010 at 19:14:33
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I found, when I was having the problem due to the IDE/AHCI confusion that after resetting the BIOS (I,too, removed the battery when nothing else seemed to work) and when I started it up I got the BIOS reset screen, not the one you get when you hit DELETE.

This screen came up before I even had a chance to ask for the main screen. It then asked me if I wanted to go to "last good setting" or something like that or "default" which is what I asked for.

Try it again and see if you get this.

Go ahead and ask for an RMA since they only give you so much time to do so. I had asked for one when I was having trouble but never sent it back since it started working.

Try it again, first, before sending it back.

Rick McInnis

 

You are turning off the power supply, posted on July 29, 2010 at 19:15:43
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 when you reset the BIOS?

I just wanted to be sure. Is that what the power cord mention is about?

 

RE: GREG, I could use your help, posted on July 29, 2010 at 19:21:54
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 LOL again.

Rick, calling me 'Stewart' is not a problem and works too... I'm not too picky about things like that.

I can make that measurement, likely this weekend, but might get to it Friday night. In my setup, since I have the 5v fed from a regulated supply, measuring the current will give you the best information, since the voltage will stay at 5v no matter what. But if the current rises with the motherboard off, that may shed some light on what you're seeing. It's easy to do on my setup, just unsolder two wires and insert a meter set to measure current.

Will let you know what I see.
Everything matters!

 

RE: Thanks for the technique advice, posted on July 29, 2010 at 20:24:07
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001



I agree that the pure linear is better... and given the experience and SQ you had when you tried the PicoPSU, I understand you not wanting to try it again. Nottaprob!

You are very, very welcome. I'm trying to pay back all the support, both directly and indiretly (through your posts in the various forums) that you gave me when I was setting my cMP up at first.

LOL on the exploding batteries. Yah, IMHO, better sound comes from living-on-the-edge... I've been considering both a DAC output stage and a phono stage that each uses mercury rectifiers... and agree on the cautions with LiPo batteries and the benefits of running without fuses (although I have on good authority that good (read that EXPENSIVE!) circuit breakers can sound about as good as no-fuse.

Another set of living-on-the-edge experiences are high-biased and/or class A circuits... a different DAC output stage I'm looking at is based on a Nelson Pass design and runs the I/V FETS at 50v or more and so hot that they take amplifier-sized heatsinks. Gotta love it!

But I was never convinced on the Keith Monks arm. OTOH, I never played with one...

As for the batteries, I already have LiPos, so it's easy to experiment with them... and having used them in my model airplanes and helicopters for 6-7 years, I have the equipment to safely charge them and am very aware of their dangers and how to use them pretty safely (no fires yet, knock on wood!).

I agree that it's how you do it that makes or breaks a battery versus an AC setup. My power supplies have been similar to PD's (with a couple of diffs that I doubt he'd condone) and that's worked well for me... and that's why I've put a lot of weight on his opinions on this.

But a battery setup is intriguing to me. My biggest caution is that it's a high-maint setup, especially for a fully-linear computer... just witness JackWong's setup! My 2nd biggest caution is that I suspect that it will work best if the entire system is battery... and my super-low-efficiency Eminent Tech speakers require a LOT of power and are not good candidates for battery powered amplification. I have several other cautions, but these are the two key ones.

Finally, on your regulator comment, if you are referring to the ones in the link I sent, yah, they idle high and hot and will suck a lot of power just sitting there. That's the nature of shunt regs. But I suspect that (like class A amps) is part of why they work well.

Later!

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. Picture attached of how I do my PCI finger cuts. Note that the finger that is second from the bottom on that top lobe of the PCI connector is one of the 3.3v ones that is not connected to the Juli@ board at all. There are many other ones like that, not all are the 3.3v ones.
Everything matters!

 

RE: GREG, I could use your help, posted on July 30, 2010 at 07:50:10
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Rick,

I had a memory (they are coming less often as I gain seniority) of doing this measurement about a year ago.

I found it.

Here's what I recorded:

Juli@ 5v PCI

73.7 mA computer off
147.8 mA on computer on in cMP mode
189.2 playing music

Again, I'll confirm these measurements this weekend, but this is what I got a year ago.

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

wish I was that organized!, posted on July 30, 2010 at 08:23:50
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I am impressed with your note keeping and your files.

Your measurements do point to something going wrong.

I looked for problems extensively last night and could not find anywhere the "voltage" could be leaking out of the board into the MB. (as I said)

Very confusing.

Of course, I need to get it connected and hear it. If it sounds OK I guess it is fine (?).

No need to set all of that up again for measuring. I have confidence in your numbers. You are very kind to offer and this is appreciated.

I am of the opinion that when one takes copious notes this does lessen the importance of memory and the brain is at the ready to work a little less hard. So your good habits are what is to blame for what you think is a function of age. Of course, if we did not take notes we would not have got where we are, so as with everything with every gain there is a loss. One has to choose their compromises and consequences of those decisions . Just like designing an amplifier or speaker. One is either frustrated or satisfied.

I am fifty five though I prefer to think I have celebrated my thirty-eighth eighteenth birthday and when the memory seems to fail I figure it is the same as an HDD getting full and in need of de-fragmentation. Please humor me.

As close as you are I would like to take a drive to hear what you are up to. (how's that for inviting oneself?)

Thanks again for the help and your experiments!

Rick McInnis

 

Very clean!, posted on July 30, 2010 at 08:32:05
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I wish my cuts were as elegant.

On some of them I was able to remove the whole strip but on others, not!

I ran PD's amps on lead acid batteries when I was using them (above 80 hz) and liked the sound through my horns (edgar/tad).

I have since got one of Mr. Pass's J2's and I am very happy with what they do.

I did not mean to imply the Keith Monks sounded all that good, but in my early twenties mind it HAD to since it was using this somewhat dangerous element! I would never use one now though I respect the elegance of the solution the problem is it wasn't a solution!

Shunt reg's and batteries will not do!

I use one of Paul Hynes BIG reg's for my DAC!

I will wait patiently to hear the result of your battery experiments. I suspect, for the computer, I will stick with AC.

THANKS, again,

Rick McInnis

 

H55m-udh2h ,post, troubleshoot, problem, error, cmos checksum, posted on July 30, 2010 at 10:20:15
Julien43
Audiophile

Posts: 2828
Location: Western NC... Shelby
Joined: May 5, 2001
 The reason for the subject line it NOT to imply that there are inherit problems with this board.

These are keywords that should help anyone having a problem locate the information in this post by keywords.

I don't expect that most members will have any problem. This is mostly for novices like me who run into problems.

I have had a little problem with my setup and contacted Gigabyte Support.
If this can help anyone without having to go back and forth with GigaSupport it will serve it's purpose. I will update as information is made available.

My support request:

Question : Can't get board to post. Gigabyte screen does appear


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Model Name : GA-H55M-UD2H(rev. 1.0)
--------------------------
M/B Rev : 1.0
BIOS Ver : 7.0
Serial No. : 101840005812
Purchase Dealer : Newegg
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
VGA Brand : Model :
CPU Brand : Intel Model : 13 Speed : 2.93 ghz
Operation System : SP :
Memory Brand : Kingston Type :
Memory Size : 1gb Speed :
Power Supply : 500 W

Gigabyte:

Answer : Dear customer,
Please provide more detail and provide components using on system, that we can help. If system can post, how it get Gigabyte screen appear ?

Me:

Question : I probably used the wrong terminology.

What happens is when I power up the system the Gigabyte screen comes up
.
If I do nothing it times out and the screen goes blank with a cursor.

At that point the keyboard is non responsive,

When I insert my XP Pro CD the drive spins up but nothing else.

The rest of the system follows:

SAMSUNG SH-S223B 22X DVD CD SATA BURNER OPTICAL DRIVE

Seagate 500GB ST9500325AS 5400rpm SATA2 laptop 2.5" HDD

Antec EarthWatts 430W ATX12V v2.2 Power Supply,

Fujitsu MJA2500BH-G2 500GB 5400 RPM 2.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Internal Notebook Hard Drive

Gigabte:

Dear customer,
Please troubleshoot with procedure below:
First, make sure the 24 pin ATX and other 4 pin 12v power both are connected to mother board, then disconnect all drive cable and remove all memory from mother board, take onboard cell battery out for 5 sec clear CMOS , put in single stick memory on white color slot close to cpu, check if system can boot into bios setting, reset bios to load fail-safe defaults and load optimized defaults.
Note:
Mother board bios memory voltage setting is base on 1.5v ( default voltage ), please check current model memory voltage spec (check memory module label), if memory is higher than 1.5v spec, go in bios under M/B intelligent tweaker on memory voltage control item adjust memory voltage match.
For example: current memory is 1.7v, go in bios M/B intelligent tweaker on memory voltage control item change to 1.7v.
Swap out other stick memory on same slot test again, if board still not post, this can help to find out if one of the memory was not stable cause issue.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have not been able to perform these steps yet, but will post all further developments

Julien

 

Power supply compromise - output chokes for the ATX, posted on July 30, 2010 at 15:22:47
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 those of you who have played with the power supplies I would appreciate your consideration and thoughts.

The more I think about all of this linear power supply stuff the more I wonder if we really need to go to that much trouble. What is it about the SMPS that makes it obnoxious?

All power supplies radiate (other than batteries) so that, alone cannot be ultimate "problem". One could see the high frequency switching garbage as a multiplex signal riding along the DC as a definite problem.

Reading the review of a NAGRA amplifier in 6MOONS today which uses an SMPS supply, along with the realization that LINN seems to successfully use them, also, makes me think we might be going to much trouble and not necessarily for good reason.

So my simple "solution" experiment is to see if a large high current choke on each voltage line. with the thought that the lesser the current needs the more HENRYS we can use (due to availability and size considerations)one would think these could filter away the offending garbage, or at least much of it.

I will try a 100mH 5 amp choke on the 5 volts line tomorrow just to see if the thing will still turn on. It will be interesting to see if the added series resistance (o.67 ohms) will cause a problem. At this point I just want to see if it will work.

Maybe I have missed this idea being discussed and if so my apologies for bringing up a settled discussion.

We'll see ...

 

RE: Power supply compromise - output chokes for the ATX, posted on July 30, 2010 at 16:18:00
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Hi Rick I use dual switching supplies (ala cics recommendations a bit back) and I am happy with them sonically. I also use LiFePo4 batteries for my 3.3 juli@ supply (never a problem) and I do the same for my 3.3 volts digital supply on my Buf32s and its not a problem. I went to these batteries per the European guys on AA (bertel and others who have since gone to non cmp solutions but still use LiFePo4's). I am very happy with the LifEpO4 WHICH ARE LESS HAZARDOUS THAN OTHER LITHIUM ION BATTERIES. So I think at least the way I use them are very safe. I use 3 in parallel and they last 5-7 days for my juli@ and longer for the Buffalo before I need to charge.

 

SMPS for Audio vs Linears... my 2 cents (long, of course!), posted on July 30, 2010 at 21:03:32
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Of course, I'll have an opinion on this... and it may not be the one you expect.

I've had several experiences with SMPS's in audio eq over the last 6 years or so, starting with a Panasonic S47 DVD player modified by one of the serious modifying houses. He did quite a bit to the SMPS in the unit... and having an un-modified unit to compare to, I could hear a significant improvement over the stock player and it competed very well against my fully-outfitted Njoe Tjoeb player with upsampler, beating it in some ways, equaling it in others, and doing so for 1/3 or so of the price (and the Tjoeb was fully linear-supplied).

Couple of years later, I read about the Sony Playstation PS-1 as CDP mini-craze and picked up a couple to play with. They were promising enough to dig into and mod... and because I was deep into my then-business and model airplanes, I didn't try to do custom linear supplies, but instead modified their standard SMPS's (see attached pix). My mods, inspired by the ones on the S-47 and information gleaned from other modifiers, included replacing the rectifiers with supposedly good-sounding soft-recovery diodes, the main cap with a Jensen 4-pole (first time I used one), and most of the other electrolytics with Rubycon's (I hadn't tried Black Gates then... they seemed really expensive to me back then). Very nice improvement, it preserved the liquidity and analog-ness of that game console when used as a CD player while improving the resolution and definition. While it didn't have the level of resolution of the S47, it was very fun and listenable and also a good platform for modifications.

Modified Sony Playstation PS-1 SMPS:









One year later, I get a real job again and celebrate by purchasing a pair of serious amplifiers, built-up by the same modifier who did the S-47. These were based on the B&O 1000ASP IcePower modules (over 500 WPC into 8 ohms, over 1000 WPC into 4 ohms), which of course had SERIOUS SMPS's. They worked very well in my system, surplanting an extremely-modified Counterpoint SA-12 and decisively beating it in every parameter... and worked very well with the S47, which became my main CDP again.

And another year or so later, I picked up a used Oppo 970 modified by the same guy who did the S47... another SMPS-powered piece of gear and it was a good step up from the S47.

So far, SMPS audio gear is holding up well.

Next step in my audio evolution was to build a Shigaclone and feed it into a Peter Daniel NOS DAC. That beat the Oppo 970 (altho it didn't play DVD movies like the Oppo and Panny) AND was all linear supplies. I don't think that was the key reason that setup beat the Oppo, but it contributed... and I got to see how people were making linear supplies nowadays (the last ones I built were back in the early nineties before people started using anything but garden-variety diodes).

Then enter the cMP. I put it together and liked it... sound quality in the same realm as the Shigaclone/PD NOS DAC combo with a bit of convenience thrown in (Remember, that PS-1 had NO screen, just a set of controls... and the Shigaclone was a step up with a screen, but just as rudimentary controls).

As I moved forward in implementing the standard tweaks to my cMP, I looked long and hard at the insides of the Antec SMPS when I was disconnecting the fan and un-needed wires... Hmmm, maybe I could do some mods in here. But then I saw the sub-threads about adding caps at the output of the Antec... and then I saw Peter Daniel's PicoPSU implementation... and started trying these tweaks to my cMP... and the rest is history (for me).

What did I learn from all of this (and also reading about SMPS-powered gear that reviewed and sounded good)?

1. SMPS's can be made to sound good (Heck, I knew that back in the late '80s when I got to hear several times a Berning TF-10 tube preamp with SMPS owned by a friend of mine!).

2. Most SMPS's are not designed and/or built for good sound.

3. You can improved the sound quality produced by those SMPS's with some mods.

4. But it's simpler in most cases just to build good linear supplies than modify a SMPS... and it likely will produce a better result.

IMHO, computer power supplies are EXTREME examples of SMPS's that are not designed and/or built for good sound. The ones in the B&O 1000ASPs are designed for and built for good sound. The ones in the Linn gear are too. The ones in the Nagra amps are too and likely better than either of these (although they seem to be more of a hybrid power supply with that large transformer before the power supply board than a classical SMPS setup). The ones in moderately-good-sounding-when-stock DVD players like the S47 and Oppo 970 (and some of the Toshiba models, one of which is playing a movie for my wife right now) are... somewhat. Ditto with the one in the PS-1... and the SMPS's in these game consoles and DVD players responded pretty well to mods designed to improve their sound quality. This was helped by their simplicity (at least compared to a computer SMPS). On the other hand though, the guy who had modified the S47 and Oppo is now offering a linear supply add-on to his latest DVD mod offering.

Given all of this, I believe that modifying the standard computer supplies, even the 'good' ones like the Antecs, are like putting lipstick on a pit bull. They are so far from what is needed to produce good sound that while you can make them better, you'll never make them good. And my experiences with minor changes to my cMP's power supplies, even the motherboard and 'dirty' (USB, screen, HDD) supplies, making a noticable-to-large difference, has told me that power supplies are critical to getting the best sound out of a cMP-type of source, even when the sound card (and DAC and output stages) has it's own power supply.

But of course, I'm very curious to hear what you report. I hope it'll make a significant improvement in your setup. I hope at least that it works ok... I'm not sure it will. If you removed your fan from your computer supply, you may want to add it back at first... I can see some ways where the chokes may cause the supply to work a lot harder and the fan may be what saves your supply until you can power it down.

Looking forward to your report!

Later!

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. Thanks for keeping this all so interesting!

P.P.S. I forgot to mention I used a Panasonic receiver with SMPS for awhile in the last couple of years as I moved into our house down here and it made a better account of itself than I expected.
Everything matters!

 

Greg, thanks - and comments, posted on July 31, 2010 at 10:04:02
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Greg,

I would tend to agree than SMPS is not for me when it comes to analog but one wonders if conversely, it is not perfectly good for digital, especially within the computer?

I guess I still have a hard time thinking about a computer as an audio device. I do consider the sound card an audio device but from there back it is a computer, though I do see the goodness in having as little extraneous anything circulating the MB.

I would love for this semi-simple "idea" to work but I can assure you I am not determined to like it. I have the stuff for linear supplies laying about and will have to make the comparison eventually for it to mean anything at all.

I must admit I had no intention of doing anything to the supply itself, just adding an LC filter to each of the outputs. I have got to say the idea of being able to hear a rectifier within an SMPS is almost frightening!

Of course, I will keep you and any others who might be interested informed since this is my favorite forum and I can lapse into chattiness!

My main idea is that if this is an improvement that could be implemented easily by those not interested in the complexities of making linear supplies though, no question, with three terminal regulators, it does become simple(r).

At this point it will be interesting to see if the supply will accept this extra inductance at all and allow the computer to turn on!

Thanks for your interest, help, and ...

I knew there had to be a new cPlay on the way since it has been so long since cics had SPOKEN and sure enough ...

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

Theo, that is bad news, posted on July 31, 2010 at 10:11:17
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 that the batteries are safe!

Takes away all of the excitement!!!!

I would like to use the batteries and to only use direct 3.3 volts but I am using Dave Davenports HDMI implementation of I2S (similar to the PS AUDIO approach) and need 5 volts to run the little send card.

I like using batteries for sensitive circuits though I would hope you are using a battery with as large an amp/hour rating as you can get. Little batteries have high series resistance which is not so good. Big batteries have vanishingly low series resistance and they can sound excellent.

Theo, hope all is well for you.

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: Theo, that is bad news, posted on July 31, 2010 at 10:53:29
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I use 3.2 V 2.00 amp hour batteries (largest ah rating I could find) and with the small draw on juli@ and especially Buf32s it lasts a long time.

All is well.

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on July 31, 2010 at 12:11:45
tsearay
Audiophile

Posts: 90
Location: Ontario, GTA
Joined: January 17, 2008
 Cannot use UD2H with Zalman TNN 300. It appears Gygabyte has changed the spacing of the Fan holes. They are farther apart which does not allow the Zalman heat sink bracket too line up. Unless there is another bracket out there this would mean I have some items for sale. Bummer, Thomas

Edit! Apparently there is a bracket one can order:) T.
No worries!

 

RE: Greg, thanks - and comments, posted on July 31, 2010 at 14:11:35
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 If I've learned anything over the past 6 years of getting back into audio tweaking, it's that my signature, 'Everything Matters', is more true than I ever imagined.

That I heard a clear difference between Panasonic FMs, a combination of Panasonic FM's & Elna Silmec, all Elna Silmec, and finally a combo of Jensen 4-poles and Black Gates in the linear power supplies that feed my HDD, Zalman screen, and USB port was a revelation to me. Guess which sounded better?

More recently, hearing the sonic signature of those Silmecs again (which isn't a bad one, just one I don't personally like) when they were used in my linear computer supplies, even when finally the only one in the supply was the one across the output of the -12v supply that I turned off after the system was started, had me concerned that either 'EVERYTHING REALLY MATTERS!' or that I was going batty.

Can I explain it? No, not really, I'm not that technical. But I'm very comfortable in reporting it and stating what I've learned, that if a SMPS isn't designed or modified to be good sounding, it is not good enough in my audio system, even for the digital circuits, even for the things that I can't imagine will make a difference like the Zalman's screen or the HDD!

Waiting expectently for your report!

Greg in Mississippi


Everything matters!

 

Update 1: H55m-udh2h ,post, troubleshoot, problem, error, cmos checksum, posted on August 1, 2010 at 05:40:08
Julien43
Audiophile

Posts: 2828
Location: Western NC... Shelby
Joined: May 5, 2001
 I performed the troubleshooting steps outlined above with the same results.

I do have one correction and have notated this in my last response to Gigabyte.

The screen that I thought was only blank with a cursor did have the text "Loading operating system..." at the very top of the LCD. The text was tiny and obscured by the upper lip of the Zalman case above the screen. I only noticed it when I reached down to pick something up off the floor.

I am still unable to access the BIOS. I am able to load the "Last known Good configuration" using F1 it seems all other keys do not function

Julien

 

No report on the experiment ... 8{(#, posted on August 1, 2010 at 09:16:32
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 So while we wait, I offer up some reading on SMPS's...

First, this thread about the sonic effects of SMPSs that burst into the PC Audio Asylum last night:

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=77788

Some snarking & sniping, but some good info too!


Second, this thread questioning replacing the SMPS in an Oppo CDP:

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=hirez&m=267546

I found the comments about Ed Meitner's use of SMPSs and some of what he does to make them sound good especially interesting.



Third this post by Charles Hansen of Ayre talking about what they do to make an Oppo CDP into an Ayre CDP:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17402589#post17402589

If the link doesn't take you there, go see post #11.

Honestly, I suspect that an excellently-designed and executed SMPS may beat a standard linear supply. But there are few of them around... and that someone as smart and experienced in electronics as Charles Hansen still choses to use linear supplies tells me it REALLY takes something to do that excellently-designed and executed SMPS... or maybe, I'm wrong and a good linear is ALWAYS better!

Greg in Mississippi

Everything matters!

 

Did not get around to it ..., posted on August 1, 2010 at 11:16:18
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
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Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 And then I saw many of those posts, too.

I think what made me reconsider is the problem with the switchers infecting the AC lines.

So, I am back to resigning myself to the noble task of AC powered linear supplies.

I have the stuff on had to make most of them and I intend to use chokes before (or maybe after?) the regulators to control some of the digital noises. There again I am not sure if the choke's filtering may result in ringing if used after. I like the idea of having some element that isolates the circuit in both directions. Wish I had an oscilloscope.

I am thinking of using a large choke in the ground line for this purpose.

Have you considered using a current regulator before the voltage regulator instead of cascaded voltage regulators? Not sure if you were using one or two. I am assuming one can use the LT regulators in this way. They say you can on the data sheet but unlike the LM317 data sheet they show no implementation.

Broke down and ordered one of the BURSON 5 volts shunt regulators yesterday for JULI@. Maybe these circuits have to be regulated electronically?

I will use the LT3080 for the the other rails since it has vastly superior ripple rejection to much higher frequencies. To use on the 5 volts rail would require paralleling and I am not sure I should attempt that.

Now to DO something.

Rick McInnis

 

Yes, I detached the power cord after turning the PSU off, posted on August 1, 2010 at 11:55:26
Julien43
Audiophile

Posts: 2828
Location: Western NC... Shelby
Joined: May 5, 2001
 I'm going back and forth with Gigabyte TechSupport trying to figure out what is going on.
Julien

 

RE: Did not get around to it ..., posted on August 1, 2010 at 15:53:39
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Regarding choke-filtered power supplies...

In reading some of the posts by John Swensen, especially his posts on low-DCR in the Tube DIY Asylum, I believe there is a science to designing good choke-filtered supplies and John knows that science... and better yet, listens to what he does. I strongly recommend his choke-filtered 9v & 12v supply as shown here:

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=42853

He takes into account not only filtering noise in both directions, but also sizing & selecting components to minimize noise creation in the supply AND having the supply exhibit a critically-damped response, which he suggests is important to good sound.

My only caution with that supply is that in the few situations I've used the Panasonic FM & FC series caps, I've not liked their 'inherent' sound. I'd check with him for alternatives... Elna Silmec or Cerafine, Nichicon FG or FX, etc.

He can also likely provide alternative components for 5v & 3.3v versions.

My gut feel is that just adding chokes without some amount of design may be a crap-shoot on whether it improves the situation or not... and John has done the hard work here, so this is a good and safe bet.

This is the configuration I'm planning to go to when I put my cMP into a home-built case (with more room for PS stuffs).

Then on regulators, first, I think you're making the right move to add regulators for the sound-card power. While you can often get away with non-regulated supplies for analog tube and solid state circuits (and done right, some say it's better-sounding), logic circuits have a pretty small range of input voltages for proper operation. Hopefully you haven't damaged your Juli@ (a possibility).

On regulator types, my next thing to try is the LT3080 and see if it makes an audible improvement over the LT1083. I'll be trying it first in my 'dirty' supplies and on the 3.3v & ATX 12v regulator positions... These are the easiest for me to change out and easiest to put back if there isn't an improvement... but experience has shown that it will be audible (whether for the good or the bad) in those positions. I hope to be doing that in the next couple of weeks.

If it does, then I'll setup the paralleled regs for the 5v where I'll use 4 regulators. If that works well (and if you want to go that direction), if you are cautious about following in my footsteps, I'd be happy to wire one up for you.

But ultimately I plan to go to current-sourced shunt regulators. I have heard from one of my 'tweak mentors' that cascading series regulators does not sound good (in his humble opinion), so except in one position, I haven't done that. But CCS-sourced shunt regulators, such as the Burson, the Tent, the OPA, the Borberly, and the DIYAudio Salas (and other) ones are ok. This link I posted in an earlier conversation:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/168631-5v-high-current-low-noise-regulator.html

Is for a varient on the Salas design for high currents and what I intend to try after the LT3080 for the ATX-20 5v & P4 12v regulators. I expect the only thing that will be better are Paul Hynes' regs, which may be next after that.

I hope this all helps... and let us know what you do.

Later!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

No question - you do not just stick a choke in, posted on August 1, 2010 at 20:05:27
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I have done endless modeling with the DUNCAN PS simulator and, of course, one then has to hear what it sounds like.

I am familiar with Swenson's circuit. It follows very closely what is considered best practice.

I use Hyne's large 12 volts regulator for my DAC. Maybe he would change his mind now that the technology has allowed a 2 ampere 5 volts line but a couple of years ago when I asked him to consider the possibility he said it would require something VERY large. I do wonder if such a thing is necessary. It could be better but, I suspect, only a little bit better, not worth the trouble. In other words, there are other areas that would yield more improvement for far less money, or I hope so.

If the other lines are not as critical, then it seems foolish to go with shunt reg's. The soundcard is a different story to my way of thinking.

I am sure Hyne's design is better, but, I bet, not that much better. The Burson's strike me as being very good engineers.

With the onboard 3.3 volts regulator on JULI@ which is an LDO type, needing less than 1 volt for the current requirements of JULI@ so I cannot imagine any damage being done. I really don't see what you are getting at - maybe with voltage too high for the regulator but when it has been in the circuit it was around 4.5 volts under load.

There is no question that too many of these narrow bandwidth regulators in cascade is the equivalent of a high order low pass filter in a loudspeaker crossover, bad. Which is why I am settling on an LC filter after the rectifier, a current regulator and then the voltage regulator for the 5 volts line. For the others I will just use a single voltage regulator, LT3080's). A capacitor after the rectifier will be used to tune the output voltage, just as Swenson, since I think a "choke input" is not needed here since a current regulator will be used.

My thinking is the choke will still be "working" after the LT1083 is beyond its range. By the Nature of the currents involved the choke will be 100mH which is quite large but with low resistance.

Easy enough to take it out if it seems to be causing a problem, which I think is highly unlikely. This will not be my first LC filtered power supply.

The LT3080 may have enough bandwidth to make this unnecessary. Who knows? I am nervous about paralleling, it always seems to have its own set of drawbacks. Of course, none of us gets to win in audio it is always the compromise one finds least obnoxious.

Oy,ve.

Rick McInnis

 

Nice discussion, posted on August 2, 2010 at 09:05:44
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Didn't know you were such an electronics expert.

 

Certainly not an expert, Theo, posted on August 2, 2010 at 09:29:05
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 But I am an obsessed cheap hobbyist who has no choice but to learn to do things for himself.

When I see something I cannot even DREAM of doing myself I readily defer to the likes of Nelson Pass, John Broskie, Paul Hynes and Dave Davenport, who, along with cics, are my audio gurus. And those magic fingered moving coil cartridge artisans ...

What excited me most of cics's work is that he was making it possible for folks without unlimited budgets to have something good for CD playback.

I have been playing with this since I was fifteen when I got a Dynaco PAT 5 kit. (Why did I not get a PAS 3?) You would think I should know more than I do when time spent is considered. (That was forty years ago. YIKES!)

Hoping I have a working C squared set-up this evening. Can't wait to hear what has happened with the software in the last couple of years and very excited about hearing what the balance control can do.

Bye,
Rick McInnis

 

RE: Certainly not an expert, Theo, posted on August 2, 2010 at 12:20:44
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 You are only in your 50's? You are just a young-in! I remember when my parents let me hook up their old Philco tv speakers to my mono record player. It wasn't stero but it was 2 channel mono---just awesome!

Good luck on your new mobo/cpu set up.

 

an auspicious entry into the world of audio, posted on August 2, 2010 at 14:55:54
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 It is funny how in your fifties you can still feel young yet you know you are getting old, for better and for worse ...

Not surprising you were a tinkerer from the beginning. That same desire to make it better obviously started at a young age.

I hope I can actually get music out of it! Just have to solder five wires from the DAC board to the line stage. Just could not make myself finish up last night.

Whether anything resembling music results ... At least, I can always play records while sorting this out.

After two years (or so) LP immersion I hope I can listen to it. At worst, it will be something to play while I work on house projects. You can tell I have a little trepidation.

Are you considering the I3 upgrade?

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

Make sure you go ahead and get an RMA from NEWEGG, posted on August 2, 2010 at 14:58:28
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 before you can't.

That does sound strange!

Sorry you are having so much trouble.

On the previous board, I went through THREE before getting one that worked so, I know, it does happen.

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: an auspicious entry into the world of audio, posted on August 2, 2010 at 16:16:09
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Yes I am considering the upgrade probably in Q4 (still talk like I'm working). But I have been busy with other non-audio matters for 2 months. When I get started I'm just wondering if I should buy all new (iow keep the old system intact) or mod my old sys. What approach did you take?

 

I kept as much as I could ..., posted on August 2, 2010 at 19:19:11
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 nothing wrong with my HDD, or keyboard, or that kind of thing.

Of course, you have no choice but to replace your memory. so that's it - new CPU, memory "card", and MB an d you're off!

Still trying to get some kind of real reason to go with the SDD for WINDOWS and programs, but nothing definitive and I have no interest in experimenting there since I think it is kind of silly though I would love to be proved (or even persuaded) wrong!

I would think there is no need to rush since there are still a few questions about the new system. And the prices may come down.

I was anxious for a new project and that is why I got the new stuff.

I am concerned by Julien's problems and wonder if there are a bad batch of MB's out there. Might as well hear what happens with his project.

What is most important is that you keep your ears in top shape! You possess a very perceptive pair of those.

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

Too Late!! I am working with Gigabyte to get one. Thanks /nt\, posted on August 3, 2010 at 08:54:28
Julien43
Audiophile

Posts: 2828
Location: Western NC... Shelby
Joined: May 5, 2001
 nt
Julien

 

BURSON high current regulator is not a Shunt type, posted on August 3, 2010 at 10:21:26
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I got confused by the menu at PARTS CONNEXION where they listed it as such. With thought it occurred to me there is no way shunt reg could be substituted for an LM317 and sure enough it is a series regulator.

In the meantime I came across this: http://www.belleson.com/index.php

This seems like the "latest" in series regulators and though I would still prefer a shunt regulator I am going to give this a try for JULI@.

The fellow making these is a very nice guy and his shop is about one hundred miles up the road. I have to give it a try!

 

One way or the other!!, posted on August 3, 2010 at 10:23:03
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Hope the new one works for you.

 

Long story... short, posted on August 4, 2010 at 04:24:01
Julien43
Audiophile

Posts: 2828
Location: Western NC... Shelby
Joined: May 5, 2001
 After following all the troubleshooting procedures directed by Gigabyte US (and then some) Gigabyte US has issues a RMA.

I will send the MB out today.

If I have any problems with the new board I will post in this thread

Julien

 

While I'm waiting for my replacement H55M-UD2H..., posted on August 4, 2010 at 04:33:14
Julien43
Audiophile

Posts: 2828
Location: Western NC... Shelby
Joined: May 5, 2001
 Is there anything I can do to make my HDDs optimized for cMP2 like formatting, partitioning and loading XP PRO using another computer?

I'd like to move forward while I'm overcoming this little setback.

You guys Rock!!

Julien

 

Not a good idea to load WINDOWS yet, posted on August 4, 2010 at 13:29:16
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 in my opinion.

You could go ahead and go through the process of loading WINDOWS making a section of the drive for WINDOWS, assuming you are using the same drive for WINDOWS and other programs. No need to do any optimizations at this point, obviously.

I use about 10 percent of the HDD for WINDOWS and programs and the rest for the music files.

Then you could, at least, start putting music in.

When you get the board it would be best to re-load WINDOWS into its sector and start making the changes. Be sure to do you BIOS changes before you do anything. Don't even connect the HDD until you do this.

Connect the HDD, load WINDOWS and do the rest of it.

Hope it all goes easily this time.

(remember to put the memory in the slot next to the slot next to the CPU)

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: Not a good idea to load WINDOWS yet, posted on August 5, 2010 at 03:35:49
Julien43
Audiophile

Posts: 2828
Location: Western NC... Shelby
Joined: May 5, 2001
 I bought a SATA to USB cable w/power supply. It's on it's way ($12 w/shipping)

Going this route, I can format, partition and load music on the HDD (per your recommendations) through my laptop without going through a OS install.

I have Read cics post When you install Windows you have the option to create partitions - create a small partition of 2500MB (2.5GB) for system installation.

I also remember reading that it is a good idea to have 2 OS partitions for restoring and tweaking purposes.

Please let me know if you have any other thoughts or ideas

Julien

 

That is what I twas alking about (just not coherently), posted on August 5, 2010 at 07:50:48
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
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Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I could not remember the word PARTITION.

As far as I know, which is not much, that is why you will have to go through the WINDOWS install, to get those partitions set up.

AND, when you get the new MB you will need to re-load WINDOWS onto that partition, the one you have made for WINDOWS and other programs, again.

The installed WINDOWS will work but I remember cocs advising when changing to a new MB to re-install WINDOWS.

When you do this there will be a screen that will seem confusing, I know it seemed confusing to me, where you can make these partitions. If you get it wrong, it is no big deal other than you have to start again.

I wish I could recollect just what it says but I can't. The best thing about making mistakes on your own is that you remember what to do much better. Do not be afraid to screw it up because you can always fix it.

Are you using JULI@? Let me know.

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: Not a good idea to load WINDOWS yet, posted on August 5, 2010 at 09:13:29
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 Going this route, I can format, partition and load music on the HDD (per your recommendations) through my laptop without going through a OS install.

Yes - no problem at all. Use your laptop's Disk Manager and partition the target HDD into (say) two system partitions and a data partition.

I'd resist the temptation to make the system partitions too small. You'll probably get away with two or 2.5GB (I think it was me that suggested that in the first place so blame me, not cics) but you might be safer with 4 GB even if you end up not using most of it.

I'd use the default sector size for the system partitions but go for 64k sectors on the music drive (slightly more efficient). A "Quick format" is fine and, well, quicker.

You can then copy over all your music data. You could start the WinXP install on the laptop but, as you'll only save yourself an hour at most, I'd suggest you leave all that until you have the machine the drive is going to run on. Particularly if you're not used to installing XP, it's easier.

BTW, be sure to disable whatever you're going to disable in BIOS (LAN, audio, etc) before you install XP - it's simpler than installing them and then taking them out again.

But formatting, data copying and so on? Get stuck in. Also getting used to using an imagefile utility would be time well spent.

It'll keep you out the bars at least.

HTH

Dave

 

Thanks Guys!! That is just the sort of input I was looking for /nt\, posted on August 5, 2010 at 16:15:24
Julien43
Audiophile

Posts: 2828
Location: Western NC... Shelby
Joined: May 5, 2001
 nt
Julien

 

RE: That is what I twas alking about (just not coherently), posted on August 5, 2010 at 18:22:16
Julien43
Audiophile

Posts: 2828
Location: Western NC... Shelby
Joined: May 5, 2001
 Yes I am using the Juli@.

I planned on using a partitioning utility (EASEUS Partition Master 6.1.1 Best Free Magic Partition Manager) loaded on my laptop to partition the HDDs for the cMP.

Right now I’m a bit perturbed about having trouble on my first go around. Half of me thinks that I may have screwed something up. The main reason I want to go ahead, partition and load the HDDs, is so that I can actually get something accomplished.

Yes I will have some cheese and crackers with my whine :~)

Julien

 

RE: Not a good idea to load WINDOWS yet, posted on August 5, 2010 at 18:56:44
Julien43
Audiophile

Posts: 2828
Location: Western NC... Shelby
Joined: May 5, 2001
 Thanks Dave.
As I mentioned in response to Rick's post, I plan to use EASEUS Partition Master to partition the HDDs. I haven't used a utility like this before but I think it will be good experience. I appreciate the advice on partition and sector size. I didn't have any idea that there might be an optimal sector size let alone what that might be.

Do you have a recommendation for a free disc image utility that offers the features I need without too steep of a learning curve.

I am sure relieved all you folks are here to lend a hand.

Julien

 

RE: Not a good idea to load WINDOWS yet, posted on August 5, 2010 at 21:35:44
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 I plan to use EASEUS Partition Master to partition the HDDs

As you wish though I'm sure Win XP's disk manager is adequate.

I didn't have any idea that there might be an optimal sector size

Larger sectors make sense where you know that nearly all the files are going to be large but it's not a big thing.

Do you have a recommendation for a free disc image utility?

Sorry, no. I bought a copy of Snapshot several ears ago (after a bad experience with Norton's "Ghost") and haven't tried anything else since.

 

The chance of it being because of you, posted on August 6, 2010 at 07:58:17
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 is very slight.

Too many reports on NEWEGG about others having problems.

I did not realize there were other ways of making those partitions! I have learned much about computers through cMP.

JULI@ can drive you a bit crazy getting it installed. At least it did for me. If it all goes well be very pleased with yourself.

There is a new driver available at ESI's site that works best. It is not the newest one but the one before that. If you have not already got this I would be glad to take a look.

 

PCI Latency Tool shows 32, is this too small?, posted on August 6, 2010 at 13:44:07
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Of course, one could say, TRY OTHER VALUES and see what happens but the untrepid (excuse the wordplay) part of me wonders which way to go with this especially since i do not really understand PCI latency does.

I have JULI@ set for lowest latency which I believe is 64.

Should these be the same?

Thanks,

Rick McInnis

 

saw an old post recommending 128 on cPLAY Forum, posted on August 6, 2010 at 13:48:34
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 when using 192 up-sampling.

I will give this a try.

Would still appreciate comments.

 

Can one combine the two .bat files (RIP button) into one, posted on August 6, 2010 at 14:02:51
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 so the RIP button can do both?

Must admit I am over my head here and would appreciate help in the best way to do this.

Thanks

Rick McInnis

 

Set it at 128, along with the CRYPTOGRAPHIC services suspend, posted on August 6, 2010 at 22:35:18
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 and the result is astonishing.

I had not heard what the system could do until this.

All of the brightness is gone and the tonal balance after four hours of listening seems right. Very neutral. Unbelievably neutral. Did not think it was possible to eliminate that upward tilt but it has been.

cics, this is so much better than where I left I am staggered. Of course, there have been other changes made with the MB and DAC but I figure these have removed obstacles to your software.

Simply extraordinary.

For those who have not done the .bat file for stopping CRYPTO SERVICES and adjusted the latency you have not heard this, at least, with the new MB. I thought it was good before but now I know it is truly great.

Astonishing is the only word that explains what I experienced.

Excuse the unbridled enthusiasm but it is justified.

I could have returned to the turntable but had no motivation to do so.

Congratulations and thanks,

 

RE: The chance of it being because of you, posted on August 7, 2010 at 19:25:40
Julien43
Audiophile

Posts: 2828
Location: Western NC... Shelby
Joined: May 5, 2001
 The last 2 drivers that were not betas for XP Juli@ are vers 1.23 and 1.21.
Are either one of those the one you are talking about?

Of course I can't even think about installing the Juli@ until I get a new MB installed and running properly. I would like to have all my ducks lined up though.

I really do appreciate you sharing your experience.

Julien

 

Seems there is no need for this, posted on August 8, 2010 at 09:37:16
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 the LATENCY TOOL will load the selected value for you.

So, RIP is only needed for stopping the CRYPTOGRAPHIC SERVICES - wish there an abbreviation for that!

 

PROs: LCaudio XO3 or APOGEE BIG BEN for Juli@?, posted on August 8, 2010 at 10:04:38
lga775
Audiophile

Posts: 38
Joined: October 10, 2009
 Already LC audio XO3 clock in my esi juli@, recently tapped out the WC from juli@ to my dac that supports WC input. Seemed to heard more and more micro details also more accurate music.

Wondering if i using APOGEE BIG BEN as master clock for transport and DAC, will it gain a positive improvement instead of using lc XO3 with esi juli@ WC out SYNC?

 

the persistance of incorrect memory, posted on August 8, 2010 at 14:41:51
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Julien,

I checked and I am using the latest, 1.07, who knows what I was thinking and I wish I had checked before I said anything.

Looked to try to find what anyone else has had to say and did not find anything my first time through,

I can tell you it must not be a problem because I am very pleased with what I am hearing.

Once you get through all of this you will be very pleased.

 

RE: PROs: LCaudio XO3 or APOGEE BIG BEN for Juli@?, posted on August 9, 2010 at 19:13:17
tsearay
Audiophile

Posts: 90
Location: Ontario, GTA
Joined: January 17, 2008
 I don't seem to be able to locate the CMP 1.0 file anywhere. Finaly received the 1156 CPU bracket from Zalman, any help locating the file would be appreciated. T.
No worries!

 

RE: PROs: LCaudio XO3 or APOGEE BIG BEN for Juli@?, posted on August 9, 2010 at 21:47:18
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12587
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Think it is now 1.2

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

what do you think about this MB?, posted on August 10, 2010 at 14:44:52
marcin_gps@go2.pl
Manufacturer

Posts: 37
Joined: February 19, 2010
 Hi there!

I came up on this motherboard - http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=proddesc&maincat_no=1&prod_no=2064

Looks very interesting, at least 'on paper'. How would you compare it to lately recommended Gigabyte GA-H55-USB3?
JPLAY & JCAT Founder

 

RE: Stunning performance with Peaktech ( velleman ) Linear PSU powering p24 & p4, posted on August 11, 2010 at 17:13:11
etiennelemay@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 49
Joined: June 25, 2008
 I know I'm reopening an old subject here but I need some feedback.
I just bought the Velleman PSU (or Peaktech)and the ATX pico PSU to upgrade my cmp^2. I'm pretty excited about this easy upgrade but I have one question:

Should I power my other periphericals (ex: HDD and USB port) with my Antec Earthwatt PSU or with the GD psu's?
Does it really matter anyways? I'm planning on powering the P24 and P4 with the Velleman.

Thanks for your opinions!

Etienne

 

RE: f9d installed with no problems (BIOS suggestions in easy to use form), posted on August 12, 2010 at 10:36:32
tsearay
Audiophile

Posts: 90
Location: Ontario, GTA
Joined: January 17, 2008
 I found I needed to keep cpu core and graphics voltage at 1.5 volts during the initial optimization. H55M-UD2H/i3 T.
No worries!

 

RE: Stunning performance with Peaktech ( velleman ) Linear PSU powering p24 & p4, posted on August 12, 2010 at 15:52:25
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 My suggestion is to try powering the peripherals both ways (GD & Antec) and see what sonic diffs you hear. I suspect you will hear clear diffs... just not sure which will be better. My money's on the GD's, but the only way to tell is to try. Do give them time to warm up before making absolute judgements... probably about 2 hours each.

And yes, I suspect strongly it will matter. In my early experimentation on this, I was using a home-made linear on the HDD, USB, and Touchsreen and what brand of caps I used in the power supply made a clear audible difference... go figure!

My 2 cents.

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: what do you think about this MB?, posted on August 12, 2010 at 17:42:56
tsearay
Audiophile

Posts: 90
Location: Ontario, GTA
Joined: January 17, 2008
 Well I can't say to much for the H55M-UD2H. First I had to wait while I ordered the 1156 bracket. In the interim my warranty expired! Then after proceeding 1 through 9 the PCI bus crapped out. Yes I verified the board not my L22. Not impressed and out 100 or so. T.

I guess the question is now that the passion has subsided, is it worth to invest in another UD2H or is there a better board. I wonder if anyone else has had this problem with this MOBo. T.
No worries!

 

One should ask for an RMA as soon as they receive the board, posted on August 13, 2010 at 07:40:48
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 just in case of something like this.

I did when I got mine.

Sure enough, initially I did think there was something wrong but eventually found the problem was my fault. But, in the past I have received four GIGABYTE boards that were truly defective.

I love how when you get a bad board you end up being responsible for the freight both ways. I got mine from NEWEGG and I do not doubt their margins are slim but it seems GIGABYTE should step in.

Oh, well.

Compared to dedicated audio gear this stuff is CHEAP, the only consolation.

It is most assuredly worth going with the new board.

 

Gigabyte gives a 3 year warranty for the "Ultra Durableâ„¢" UD2H, posted on August 13, 2010 at 14:15:40
Julien43
Audiophile

Posts: 2828
Location: Western NC... Shelby
Joined: May 5, 2001
 I bought one... had to wait on funds for the rest of the kit. Newegg's return policy ran out before the build. Gigabyte has one on the way as I type.

The machine posted to the Gigabyte welcome/prompt screen but I couldn't get into the bios or load an operation system

See my post below.

Julien

 

Gigabyte answeres all the negative posts on newegg, posted on August 14, 2010 at 12:05:07
ArdRi
 it'd be nice to be able to know what they say and do subsequently. I have held off purchasing one due to all the continuing problems..

 

GA-H55M-UD2H bios w/ no 'spread spectrum' settings?, posted on August 15, 2010 at 05:35:23
Apokalypse
Audiophile

Posts: 222
Location: Victoria
Joined: April 1, 2005
 Hey guys,

I've got a question regarding the mobo. I've updated my bios to f9 and f10 and can't find the setting for disabling spread spectrum?

In this post http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/7/72016.html it's in the advanced frequency settings... but isn't there on mine. Is it the bios version?

 

Did you "control/F1"?, posted on August 15, 2010 at 11:48:01
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I know this adds an extra menu option.

This could also add items within menus. I have never checked.

 

RE: Did you "control/F1"?, posted on August 16, 2010 at 04:33:47
Apokalypse
Audiophile

Posts: 222
Location: Victoria
Joined: April 1, 2005
 Ah hah, there it is. Excellent. Thanks.

 

LT3080-based regulators & Linear P4 on Dirty AC circuit experiments..., posted on August 16, 2010 at 07:30:15
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Did two worthwhile experiments this weekend.

First was replacing the LT1083 regulators in my 'dirty' supplies (5v HDD, 5v USB, 12v Zalman screen) with LT3080 reg chips, mentioned as an upgrade to the standard 317-type regulators in K&K Audio's most recent upgrade to the power supply for their RAKK DAC (see here: http://www.kandkaudio.com/digitalaudio.html ). Initial indications are a slightly more detailed treble... I expected the impact to be small here and it was, but I didn't hear anything bad, so I'll move onto trying them in my linear ATX-20 & P4 supplies (4 chips paralleled for the higher-current 5v supply).

One thing to note with the LT3080 chips... the datasheet indicates a minimum load current of 1ma is needed to maintain regulation. None of the supplies I built with the LT3080 regulated without a load. If you are using them on a circuit where you may sometimes have no load, I suggest a ballast resistance (10K - 100K) on the output to keep them happy and regulating.

Second was use the P4 supply portion of my old Linear-Hybrid supply and connect it to my 'dirty' AC circuit, as recently recommended by cics. Initial indications are that this was more noticable, with blacker backgrounds and increased dynamic contrasts and impact, but my listening was cut short by a thunderstorm. Will check more on this in the near future... if it holds up to long-term scrutiny, I'll add a separate AC cord to my linear supply just for the P4 supply.

More to come...

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: LT3080-based regulators & Linear P4 on Dirty AC circuit experiments..., posted on August 16, 2010 at 07:39:56
ForgotPassword
Audiophile

Posts: 87
Joined: September 21, 2009
 Hi Greg,

I remember reading somewhere that Paul Hynes made a "full set" of high performance power supplies for his client's HTPC. It may be quite pricey compared to DIY solutions, but I think it'll be worth the investment.


"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we would let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines." N.P.

 

RE: LT3080-based regulators & Linear P4 on Dirty AC circuit experiments..., posted on August 16, 2010 at 08:25:43
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Agreed.

You can see a picture of the PH ATX-supply here:

http://www.hifizine.com/2010/06/paul-hynes-design/

In separate communications with Paul, he said:

"The ATX supply is a custom four supply in one box product for experimenters to use with replacing the standard ATX power supplies.
It uses my best linear low noise series reg modules. It does not contain any start-up logic... The SR2xr4 costs £1350, with silent transformers, fully built and tested.

The regulator modules are available separately as PR3HD-12, PR3HD-05,
PR3-03v3 and NR3-12 (negative voltage regulator). The PR3HD (heavy
duty) regulators and NR3 negaitve reg cost £120 each. Insured carriage and packing is charged at cost depending on destination."

I suspect this will be the ultimate solution and likely give any battery-powered solution a run for it's money.

BTW, my testing has indicated that you can startup many of the cMP-recommended Gigabyte motherboards (GA-G31M-S2L, GA-G31M-ES2L, and GA-G45M-UD2H) without any controlling start-up logic, just a simple switch to control 5v to the PWR_OK and in the case of the dual-bios UD2H board, a simple manually-implemented timing sequence. Also, only the ES2L board has needed the -12v for startup, so unless you use that board (or need it for a peripheral, like using a Juli@ card and using it's analog side), you can delete that portion of the supply.

Having said all that, what I'm trying to do with testing the LT3080 is to develop a not-too-complex supply that can be built by a moderately-experienced scratch-builder who can't swing the >$2000 USD for the Paul Hynes solution. I can say that the Linear-Hybrid supply solution that I implemented about 1 1/3 years ago was a HUGE upgrade over a modified Antec 430 (extraneous cables & fan removed, added filtering capacitors at outputs) and the fully linear supply I implemented about a month ago was a worthwhile improvement over the Linear-Hybrid (although nowhere the upgrade over the Linear-Hybrid as that was over the standard computer supply), so if a cMP user is concerned with getting the best sound, computer power supply upgrades are a must.

Any my intention is to move to the PH-solution as funds allow.

A long-winded answer to say... 'Yup!'.

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

Davenport is no longer using the LT3080, posted on August 16, 2010 at 14:28:12
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 which took me by surprise.

The power supply he is using now is not regulated at all, just an RC network and lots of capacitance. Of course, what the thing is powering has regulators on board so I would not doubt it does all that needs to be done.

Installing the BELLESON regulator did sharpen up the images and lost a little of the dreaminess I was getting with the choke filetered supply, but on the whole I do think it is better.

One has to think that the LT3080 has to be so much better than what was "there" as to make going to custom supply almost foolish, especially if it is also a series regulator.

I think it is a good idea to have a bleed resistor anyway. It is good the thing forces this on us.

I hope this difference in the treble continues to be a good thing. I was thinking of just making life easy and using the LT1083 for the 5 volts rail and the 3080's for the others, even though I was ALSO thinking I would use the BELLESON on the P4. I can always make a chance to it later if that seems like a good idea.

What are you doing to power the HDD's? I cannot figure out if I have to power them with both 5 and 12 or one or the other. Again, your help, please? How are you doing this?

At this point I have been using the ANTEC for the P24 and the originally recommended from the ART OF COMPUTER TRANSPORTS supply (something Noisetaker?).

I have made so many changes and cannot ascribe what is making the MOST difference but I have been amazed at what this is able to do. It is more spacious than my turntable. (I am going to have to get to work on my phono stage) It is astonishing.

If this can be appreciably improved with the linear supplies I think I might be very happy for a good long while.

I have to think Dave Davenport's new DAC is a very good sounding device. With the large HYNES shunt reg and Dave's HDMI I2S I am hearing as neutral a tonal balance as I get from a good LP. Been a couple of weeks and I am still listening for hours on end.

Set latency to 98, from 128, and I think it is better. What setting are you using?

Thanks for the report.

Rick McInnis

 

Stuck in "cMP mode"..., posted on August 16, 2010 at 16:44:36
gjwAudio
Audiophile

Posts: 160
Location: Toronto
Joined: March 11, 2006
 Well, I guess it's better than being stuck in "XP mode"...

No matter how many times I click: "start XP" > OK > OK > X > "Yes" (to the "cMP restart?" prompt), the computer does a cMP refresh and returns to the main cMP screen.

Repeated clicking of the "X" does not break out of this loop. Setting diagnostics to "Yes" does not help (just more OK buttons to click through !).

Manually killing cicsMemoryPlayer.exe and starting explorer.exe restores the desktop, but again using the Shutdown/ Restart dialog has no effect... the desktop remains.

Reset button reboots the machine, which goes directly into cMP.

Does anybody know the secret of returning to XP mode ? Please point out the obvious thing I've missed.

I should mention this OS is XP Pro-SP1 (don't ask...), with all the prescribed optimizations (including minlogon). Earthwatts EA-430/ GA-G31M-S2L/ E7400/ 512 mb Hyper-X LL/ Juli@+BNC mod.

Cheers,
Grant

That's not a Toy... IT'S A TOOL !!

 

Have you ticked the Process Explorer option next to, posted on August 16, 2010 at 19:02:46
ArdRi

"START UP"?

 

I use cMP's Startup feature to launch Task Manager..., posted on August 16, 2010 at 19:35:06
gjwAudio
Audiophile

Posts: 160
Location: Toronto
Joined: March 11, 2006
 ...and have also used it for Process Explorer in the past.
==============================================
OK just relaunched cMP with Process Explorer checked. Then FILE > SHUTDOWN > "Do you really..."/YES... and nothing happens.

I can't help feel that getting back into XP mode will somehow enable normal Windows shutdown/ restart processing. It worked that way before I got it to go into cMP mode.

Thanks,
Grant

That's not a Toy... IT'S A TOOL !!

 

cMP vs, or with cPlay 2.0b37, posted on August 16, 2010 at 22:44:22
bruce.weiland@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 9
Location: Texas
Joined: May 4, 2004
 Hi guys.

I apologize. I have read SOME of the posts and SOME of the manual, so maybe I just have not read far enough.

I have progressed from one computer to another and from XP to Vista 64 to Windows 7 64.

At one point I used cMP and would see it stop a number of windows services before it started. I now have cPlay 2.0b37 installed and functioning.

OK to the question. Does cPlay 2.0b37 obviate the need for cMP, or include some of its features?

Thanks for the response.

Bruce

 

RE: cMP vs, or with cPlay 2.0b37, posted on August 16, 2010 at 23:08:38
Audio Bling
Audiophile

Posts: 307
Location: Australia
Joined: October 9, 2007
 No.

The two things are quite different. cMP sets up the environment for which a music player (like cPlay or Foobar for that matter) operates. cPlay will operate without cMP (as cMP it is not mandatory) but I can say from my own experience that cPlay really benefits from cMP's addition. The problem will be that cMP will effectively neuter the machine for other uses. It is not a problem if you want the best audio playback.

HTH.

 

Chosing the right picoPSU model (which leaves the 12v line untouched) is important., posted on August 17, 2010 at 06:41:32
hfavandepas
 Hi Etienne,

I stumbled on your post and would like too suggest too take care in chosing the right picoPSU model.

Chosing the right picoPSU model (which leaves the 12v line untouched) is important.

Not al picoPSU’s are made by the same concept. Some picoPSU models leave the 12 V line untouched and pas the 12V line straight on too the MoBo. But there are other picoPSU models that don’t leave the 12 V line untouched and also regulate the 12 V line.

I first bought the wrong picoPSU model. A PW-200-M w/P4-ATX. This model also regulates the 12 V line which results in almost no sound quality improvement over a standard ATX switching PSU with ‘smoothing caps’ on the P4. It’s not worth the trouble to change a ‘smoothing capped’ ANTEC ATX PSU for an picoPSU PW-200-M w/P4-ATX IMHO.

I know of at least one picoPSU model ( 150-XT ) that leaves the 12 v line untouched. This model passes the 12 V line straight on too the MoBo. But there may be more picoPSU models that leave the 12V line untouched.

 

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