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cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player

41.183.0.21
Posted on December 30, 2007 at 05:42:01
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
cMP

The open source high-end Memory Player

December 2007

Music delivery is perfected. cMP (cics Memory Player) delivers memory playback (without RAMDisk or other utilities) thereby eliminating disk interference during playback.

In creating cMP, its critical objective was the implementation of fundamental designs that:

  1. Remove disk traffic interference during playback without having the inconvenience of manually loading files into a virtual RAM drive, etc..
  2. Ensure time critical sample delivery to the external DAC. Streaming of samples from precision upsampled (to 24/96) sound buffers to the soundcard must be fast, lean and mean! There's no room for any bottlenecks or overheads here, otherwise we risk increasing jitter and compromise Bit Transparency.
  3. Provide better power supply and remove the need for a ferrite core on the mouse connection.
  4. Provide flexibility to choose any player (Foobar2000, Winamp etc.).
  5. Further minimize the Windows footprint to that more optimal than XP's Embedded SP2 operating system as used in large scale commercial applications. This provides the foundation for the 2nd design goal.
  6. Offer a CD/DVD-ROM drive without impacting sound quality.
  7. Offer proper remote usability as locating that mouse cursor from a distance is cumbersome.
  8. Contain costs but also allow for a complete elegant one box solution.

Such designs in theory should render a stunning sonic experience. Its implementation however was a massive challenge. Did this theory meet the sonic expectations? Yes as evidenced in cMP's bit perfect performance and ultra low jitter.

How does it sound? The most descriptive word that comes to mind is emotional. cMP's sonic purity is truly profound. It grips those musical lines across any genre with remarkable precision. Soundstage improves, there's better layering and even more ambient information. Bass is tighter, with natural vocals & instruments.

FRONT



BACK



More pictures and screenshots are available from the cMP documentation link provided below.

FEEDBACK

Pre-release testing by music lovers located all over the world yielded further insight and perfection of cMP.

  • A music lover based in the US with limited or no computer training:

    This has been a great way to learn about computers in addition to making something very useful for enjoying music.

    Compared to my ###### (read expensive high-end traditional CD transport), even with some tweaking and learning left to do, this sounds much better. Dynamic, yet relaxed (effortless?).

    I started listening last night at 7:00 and had to force myself to go to bed at twelve. Amazing spaciousness. It is truly getting close to GREAT analog and is much better than average analog already. It is simply amazing.

    I found your instructions easy to follow ONCE I understood what I was being told to do. To repeat, I have never done anything like this before, so your instructions were clear without resorting to "hand holding". I think the process was easier than you warned. I kept saying to myself, "that wasn't so bad!"

    After cMP:

    My only audio friends are very analogue-centric. Sometime in January I am going to have them over to audition the cMP. I think they are going to be amazed. Of course, I am confident that JULI@ is going to be the icing on the cake. If this takes the whole thing another step closer I think they will be grateful that one can enjoy listening to CD's as much as LP's. Of course, in many ways your approach does things even LP's cannot do. It is becoming a toss-up, but the best kind; one can enjoy either one equally well!

  • A music lover based in Europe with more than 2000 CDs:

    the quality of sound reproduction is quite amazing. My motivation for building was that I am not wealthy and could never dream of, let alone buy, a high-end CD player. Even this project was considerably more than I could properly afford and I began it with some trepidation. But it's been well worth it.

    After cMP:

    I spent several hours last night testing the latest cMP. I did several A/B runs with cMP on the one hand and Foobar launched via old batch files and reading direct from disk on the other. There is no doubt in my mind that the sound using cMP is a significant improvement even with my modest setup.

    The quality is quite stunning, significantly better than previous. (My partner agrees with this - she's no audio junkie but she is an informed music lover.)

  • A music lover based in Australia:

    I have been wanting to relay to you my own experience with your methods and give you some feedback . So far, I have found your approach produces very good results so I must convey to you my thanks and appreciation. At some point soon I will formalise my thoughts and send them to you or post them. I believe what you have done has become an excellent resource/asset to people interested in PC Audio.


FEATURES

  1. Disk traffic interference during playback is eliminated. Advanced RAM playback is based on available physical RAM (as reported by Task Manager or Process Explorer). This means up to 4GB (XP's limit) can be used allowing for 24/192 RAM playback. Recommendation is to use 1GB RAM (which yields available physical RAM of ~830MB - enough for any CD at 16/44.1). cMP achieves memory playback via the system cache and not through a simulated virtual drive. This approach removes Windows disk I/O overheads (irrespective of whether disk is physical or virtual) hence, it's more optimal.

  2. Extensive Windows & Player (Foobar2000 or other) optimizations yielding much lower jitter and bit perfect delivery. System level optimizations are done at runtime (which cannot be achieved using .bat files and utilities like Process Explorer). cMP is designed to work with 32 CPU cores!

  3. Open architecture. cMP allows for any player to be used: Foobar2000, XXHighEnd, Winamp etc. (player just needs to handle .cue files like foobar2000 otherwise play entire .wav). Any ripper software can be used (as long as it conforms to .cue single file standard like those created by EAC). Additional flexibility is provided, for example use cMP to drive your HTPC playing any movie from any genre (a .cue file for each .iso file is needed).

  4. All .cue files are processed by cMP which means the player focuses only on playing the CD. In Foobar2000, the album list control component is not needed. In techno speak this is called separation of concerns.

  5. Power delivery to the mobo is improved by further reducing interference. The need for a ferrite core is removed.

  6. Full function remote control using a wireless mouse is achieved. Your entire library can be navigated: play any CD, eject it, jump to any track or change volume. This is achieved using just ONE mouse button: the Wheel! Use the mouse as a normal one (left-click) or hold it in your hand (like a remote control) and wheel away using your thumb. Of course other buttons are used for more convenience. There's no need to find that tiny mouse cursor and left click! (You can still do this if needed).

  7. Your entire library that you so diligently ripped is fully compatible with cMP. No proprietary / lock-in stuff here which forces you to re-rip. Just point cMP to your music folders containing .cue and .wav files (or flac or other). cMP supports any content file as long as cue files are defined for them. For flac content files, the known EAC bug of adding an additional .flac suffix to the content file's name must be removed (otherwise your cue's content file directive will not be found).

  8. CD/DVD-ROM drive is implemented without compromising playback quality. For the purist, this can be unplugged without opening computer or rebooting.

Bottom line: cMP is a (one box) highly advanced memory player that's easy to setup and use. cMP's core strength lies in newly developed operating system software components (built in c/c++) that uses XP SP 2 as a foundation. Windows Explorer is done away with while cMP takes over and more. Bit perfect delivery is achieved yielding an ultra high resolution of more than 23.5 bits (a limitation in measuring instruments prevents measuring cMP's perfect resolution). DAC's have yet to achieve this resolution (as a minimum of 141db SNR is needed)! For cMP's bit perfect measurements, see (Bit Perfect Measurement & Analysis ).


GETTING STARTED

Visit cicsMemoryPlayer.com where you'll find detailed easy to follow instructions and much more.

Ensuring clean AC power delivery to equipment is very important. For DAC, pre-amp and amplifiers, use a dedicated AC circuit. For source equipment, use another AC circuit as this is where cMP's main PSU should be powered from. Use another less important AC circuit for powering cMP's 2nd dirty power inlet. Use of quality power cords and line conditioners is recommended.


Special thanks to those that provided such brilliant feedback and suggestions during pre-release testing. cMP's software is at version 1.0b as more feedback is desired. Your input, insights, criticisms, experiences and suggestions all help.

Thank you.

 

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    ...
cMP and cicsPlay - ERROR Player thread handle is NULL, posted on April 20, 2010 at 04:52:19
goestrin
Audiophile

Posts: 7
Location: Mötzingen
Joined: April 20, 2010



I have build a CMP decidated computer and cannot get CMP to work i.e. to play the music. The error message is "ERROR Player thread handle is NULL". I have tried with different player optimizations, same result. Cplay on its own works fine, except that I noticed that the "ASIO 2.0-ESI Juli@ Settings" don't come up when selected.
I've reinstalled XP, and tried again, same result.

Mobo: Asus P5KPL-AM EPU (G31), Intel E7500, 2 GB DDR2 Kingston, Juli@ soundcard, XP Prof SP2, 320GB 2,5" S-ATA2 disc.

On my other computer based on a AMD dual core chip, I had all CMP, CPlay and Juli@ working just fine.

Any idea anyone? I am stuck, any help is appreciated.

Gerd

 

RE: cMP and cicsPlay - ERROR Player thread handle is NULL, posted on April 20, 2010 at 05:41:42
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Does your cmp^2 pc recognize juli@ with an esi logo in the bottom right corner upon reboot? If not dissassemble juli@, reassemble.

 

RE: cMP and cicsPlay - ERROR Player thread handle is NULL, posted on April 20, 2010 at 05:48:47
goestrin
Audiophile

Posts: 7
Location: Mötzingen
Joined: April 20, 2010
 thanks for asking. Yes, I have that. Juli@ v 1.23. After launching cmp and getting the error message, then closing cmp again the icon is gone though.

 

RE: cMP and cicsPlay - ERROR Player thread handle is NULL, posted on April 20, 2010 at 06:14:29
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 its ok to lose the icon after (error in windows as I recall). sorry I did not help.

 

RE: cMP and cicsPlay - ERROR Player thread handle is NULL, posted on April 20, 2010 at 06:36:42
goestrin
Audiophile

Posts: 7
Location: Mötzingen
Joined: April 20, 2010
 no problem. the next thing I could do is update the bios, but I am hesitating as it's a bit tricky for me. what do you think?

 

RE: cMP and cicsPlay - ERROR Player thread handle is NULL, posted on April 20, 2010 at 09:49:08
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Looks like you're using the wrong cPlay version or it needs to be reinstalled. Problem is cPlay is exiting immediately on startup. Try deleting "cicsPlay.ini" file found in cPlay's installation folder.

Failing this, based on the diagnostic output you've posted Windows is not setup correctly or something is wrong at kernel level. Correct output for cPlay startup should be something like this:

Player started.
       Task = #N "c:\program files\cics Play\cicsPlay.exe" %C
       Player Process Affinity: system 0x00000003 before 0x00000001 after 0x00000003
       Player optimised for Critical.


I suspect you've installed latest SP2 security patches from MS.

Juli@ does not offer an ASIO control panel - settings must be done in XP mode then switch to cMP mode.

 

RE: Good sound setting for cMP- i3 + h55-s2h + kingston hyperX + WinXP(x64) + JRMC 14, posted on April 20, 2010 at 11:14:36
lga775
Audiophile

Posts: 38
Joined: October 10, 2009
 i guess the crackling problem is caused by the receiver of my dac which is CS8420 does not support 96khz sampling and above.. will mod to cs8416 when i free.

 

RE: cMP and cicsPlay - ERROR Player thread handle is NULL, posted on April 20, 2010 at 11:52:17
goestrin
Audiophile

Posts: 7
Location: Mötzingen
Joined: April 20, 2010
 thanks for your feedback. I've tried other cPlay versions, deleting the ini file also - no change. Leaves the XP SP2 security patches, I admit they are not up to date. Will try again after I updated them.

 

RE: cMP and cicsPlay - ERROR Player thread handle is NULL, posted on April 20, 2010 at 21:32:48
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Also check your CUE_PLAYER setting in cicsMemoryPlayer.pth file. Default assumes cPlay is installed in the default folder (c:\program files\cics play).

 

RE: cMP and cicsPlay - ERROR Player thread handle is NULL, posted on April 21, 2010 at 00:58:13
goestrin
Audiophile

Posts: 7
Location: Mötzingen
Joined: April 20, 2010
 Great, thank you :) This hint solved my problem my cPlay is in c:\programme\
Thanks again, will start optimizing now

 

* Pinging lga775 * Gigabyte GA-H55M-UD2H + Intel Core i3 32nm + 1GB Kingston DDR3, posted on May 1, 2010 at 13:56:13
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Finally got my installation going. Still burning in hw.

After 24 hours, Vcc is 0.69375V (CPU Z @0.704V). However, I have some differences to your setup:

  1. Disabled HPET Support

  2. Set QPI Clock Ratio to 24x (can't get anything lower) yours is at 2.2GHz (I have 1.2GHz) as per CPU Z

  3. Use Auto DRAM timings at 6x speed

  4. Adjust Graphics Core voltage - I can get to 0.650V you have it at Auto


Can you test on your side?

 

Interesting Tweaks , posted on May 2, 2010 at 02:32:45
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I tried using an extenal clock for cmp (Oppo dvd player)and found a nice little sq improvement. Most recently cics recommended another pc psu unit to drive all the so called 'dirty power consuming devices'. So I connected another pc psu unit to P4, all my drives and lo and behold got the sq pop cics talked about. When using an external clock to drive juli@ I got the same (but smaller) sq pop. The sq improvement makes sense to me because the juli@ clock is no longer drawing current from the p24 line. However there is an issue. When used in this fashion as soon as I shut off my battery feed (3.3volts) to Juli@ I lose control of the cursor via the mouse. It goes away upon reboot but even if I switch back to internal clock before shutting down the battery feed the cursor/mouse locks up so it always necessitates a reboot. Its enough of a nuisance that I have fallen back to only using the internal clock. But if there is a way to avoid the reboot the external clock would be a permanent tweak imo.

For Buf32s users I recommend damping the Sabre chip with a bit of gooey substance right in the top/middle of the chip (avoid touching any of the pins on the chip to prevent shorts). This improved sq very significantly in the upper mids and soundstage area. I used some black tacky goo I had on hand. Mortite did not work as well. Goo-ier the better.

 

RE: Interesting Tweaks , posted on May 2, 2010 at 07:23:24
RayBan
Audiophile

Posts: 111
Location: Vegas
Joined: February 12, 2009
 Maybe a stupid question, but how did you determine the clock freq. to use?
RayBan

 

RE: Interesting Tweaks , posted on May 2, 2010 at 16:05:10
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Just clicked on 192K and chose either INT or EXT on the juli@ panel. Is there another way?

I use 192K upsampling for all files.

The trick to get the right clock with my oppo is to run a 24/192 disc in the dvd player then the clock will be set to 192K and as long as you run just this one clock rate you are set.

 

RE: Interesting Tweaks , posted on May 2, 2010 at 18:43:31
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 By running a DVD to ensure 192k SPDIF output, you're adding to jitter rather than reducing it.

A better way to improve Juli@'s XO is using Mihaylov's approach of replacing it's XO entirely.

 

* NEW * Windows optimisation using Autoruns and gpedit (Group Policy editor), posted on May 2, 2010 at 19:50:59
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 In rebuilding my cMP² using 32nm technology I added 2 more advanced optimisations (assuming you have a fully optimised cMP²):

  1. Autoruns > Services TAB > uncheck:

    • Browser (Maintains an updated list of...) - IF not using any network capability
    • srservice (Performs system restore...)


    Important:
    • you must reverse minlogon as Autoruns requires winlogon
    • remaining entries are those services left running - ideally you should only have 2: PlugPlay & RpcSs. DO NOT DISABLE OTHER SERVICES USING AUTORUNS! Instead do it normally through control panel > administrative tools.


  2. Start > Run > gpedit.msc > OK > Administrative Templates > System > double-click "Turn off Autoplay" > select "Enabled" & "All Drives" > OK > Exit.

    This stops windows autoplay whenever a USB or disc is inserted. I use this on my normal PCs as Autoplay is slow and a nuisance.

 

RE: Interesting Tweaks , posted on May 3, 2010 at 03:55:07
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 While I agree 100% that relacing the oscillator is optimum I just wanted to try the experiment. Also I don't really run the dvd while playing cmp^2. I run the dvd then stop it which tricks the dvd output to be set @ 192K. It doesn't really matter because of the 'locking of the mouse cursor' problem this is impractical for me. I was just hoping I could find a way to avoid the locking problem.

 

RE: * Pinging lga775 * Gigabyte GA-H55M-UD2H + Intel Core i3 32nm + 1GB Kingston DDR3, posted on May 3, 2010 at 06:11:22
jackwong96
Audiophile

Posts: 219
Joined: April 20, 2010
 Hi CICS, I'm also interested in similar setup. In due course, can you report the improvement in SQ and power consumption when comapred to other set up e.g. G31 + E7X00 combo?

 

others is fine.. but i cant go to 0.65 on graphics core., posted on May 4, 2010 at 09:59:33
lga775
Audiophile

Posts: 38
Joined: October 10, 2009
 it did not work when i touched graphics core dont know why.. haha.
it troubles me lot to reset the bios when i disturb the graphics core. haha.

 

Graphics core now at 0.625 - try setting "Internal Graphics Clock" to 400 (lowest) instead of Auto. nt, posted on May 4, 2010 at 10:10:44
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 .

 

yes the graphics clock is 400mhz, what is the fail safe voltage for graphics?, posted on May 4, 2010 at 10:18:33
lga775
Audiophile

Posts: 38
Joined: October 10, 2009

 

Lowest for clean boot is 0.612. Another feature of mobo is "Cryptographic Services" which needs new approach, posted on May 5, 2010 at 09:05:54
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 You cannot stop "Cryptographic Services" as on reboot service persists. Solution is to remap "Rip" button in cMP to disable it. You need to create a .bat file say "c:\cryptsvc.bat" with following:


@echo off
sc stop cryptsvc


Remap "Ripper" button in cicsMemoryPlayer.pth file to:


RIPPER #H "c:\cryptsvc.bat"


On boot, simply press "Rip" button to stop this nasty service (which impacts sound quality). Screen flashes and cMP does a refresh. Thereafter only 2 services should be running (PnP and RPC) - if using mobo soundcard then a 3rd service, "Windows Audio" is needed.

Update: still running stock CPU cooler with temps at 23°C doing 192k SRC@145db output. Tried disconnecting fan and this gives ~53°C using Intel's little heatsink! Impressive considering these CPUs can run to ~73°C.

 

RE: Lowest for clean boot is 0.612. Another feature of mobo is "Cryptographic Services" which needs new approach, posted on May 5, 2010 at 09:24:36
monaco
Audiophile

Posts: 30
Joined: August 1, 2008
 On the subject of CPU temperatures:

I have had poor experiences of Intel processors running their thermal management algorithms at almost 50degC below rated temperatures - backing off clock cycles to reduce thermal stress on the chip and inducing (in my case video) playback issues.

My recommendation is always keep well away from rated temperatures, the internal chip temp sensors are crude, not calibrated and thermal algorithms are not published...

 

I have always wanted to eliminate AUTOPLAY, posted on May 5, 2010 at 10:36:19
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 on my regular machine.

Tell us more about your new configuration.

I am in the process of building a bunch of linear supplies for the music computer. Can't wait to hear what it does.

I will start with just P4, which I know from trying battery power does make a big difference. Though I do wonder as you have speculated that this has as much to do with being separate than the fact that it is linear. The battery does lack practicality and has too much voltage that I could not find a good way to "lose".

Once acclimated (again) I will add the other supplies. I should mention that I will power JULI@ and its accompanying i2s "sender card" from K&K AUDIO with a dedicated 5 volts supply. I would like to go direct with the 3.3 volts but the "sender card" has to be powered by the same supply for some reason and the K&K card needs 5 volts.

We'll see ...

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

Core i3 CPU temp measures matches RealTemp - this is a fisrt, posted on May 5, 2010 at 10:42:55
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Not sure if you using Core ix CPU but this model is a first for matching RealTemp measures. On long runs I'm getting a stable 26°C.

PROCHOT condition causes degradation you experienced - this is very rare in low voltage & frequency setups.

 

Lacking a search function for this thread... One question please.... for now ;), posted on May 6, 2010 at 23:31:42
Julien Therrien


 
Which would be the better operation system for cMP

XP Pro SP3 or the x64 SP2?

I'm just getting started getting the pieces together

 

Go with XP SP2/3 and avoid 64 bit version (avoids extra address lines). For Search use Ctrl+F in Browser. nt, posted on May 7, 2010 at 12:43:52
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 .

 

RE: Lacking a search function for this thread... One question please.... for now ;), posted on May 7, 2010 at 12:59:20
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 XP Pro SP3 or the x64 SP2?

Since no-one else seems to be rushing to answer your query, here's my take. If I'm wrong, hopefully someone will shout (politely).

1. cMP^2 is designed to run on WinXP Pro SP2 and most of us use that but, as you suggest, to get critical features such as the minlogon change and playback from RAM, it does need to be the Pro version;

2. I don't know of any issues arising from using SP3. I think it's fine;

3. I don't know of any benefits from using x64, it has not been as thoroughly tested as XP and you might be hard pressed for advice if you hit a problem.

HTH

Dave

 

Thanks Guys!!, posted on May 7, 2010 at 18:00:33
Julien43
Audiophile

Posts: 2828
Location: Western NC... Shelby
Joined: May 5, 2001
 I searched and found about the XP Pro, I wasn't sure if the 64bit version might have a benefit.

Thanks for the search function info too cics


Julien

 

Good News!!! i am able to set my Graphics voltage to 0.65 as well as 0.65 for Vcore!!!!, posted on May 8, 2010 at 05:01:03
lga775
Audiophile

Posts: 38
Joined: October 10, 2009

 

RE: * NEW * Windows optimisation using Autoruns and gpedit (Group Policy editor), posted on May 8, 2010 at 09:03:16
nola_powerman


 
I am finding that this group policy area is loading with settings that when modified make wonderful improvements to my system. For instance, there are many other settings called "turn off" or "prevent", etc.. that when enabled really make a substantial improvement. I hope others are playing around here and that this area has not been left unexplored.There are way too many to go through in a short amount of time, but I'm going to keep testing some things and I hope others are too.

 

RE: * NEW * Windows optimisation using Autoruns and gpedit (Group Policy editor), posted on May 9, 2010 at 00:42:25
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Some of those settings are security related. Do you have Minlogon installed?

Let us know of the options you've had success with.

 

RAM timings have been key ingredient for me, posted on May 9, 2010 at 09:32:44
seger
 Using i3 530 & GA-H55M-UD2H, destined to be a mainly video media pc for a friend, I've taken a side trip putting cMP on it temporarily. I started going for lowest clocks/lowest voltages, but until I started using low RAM latency to lead me, I was somewhat disappointed with the sound, making allowances for very little burn-in, and the 2GB RAM stick (probably veils the sound slightly compared to smaller ones).

At the moment the speeds are at lowest, RAM is at 5-3-3-9-24-1T, and I haven't lowered voltages at all this time, and sound is much improved. Unfortunately, I've run out of time, and won't learn if lowering voltage again will help or hinder. Temps are low 30s, same as they were when I had voltage barely booting the machine (around .68v).

Other settings are like yours (and cics). I didn't find any difference in temps or sound with 1 or 2 cores, with or without hyperthreading, but I'm not using any upsampling.

 

Could the MS Interrupt-Affinity Filter tool be of any benefit in a cMP setup?, posted on May 9, 2010 at 14:43:45
hfavandepas
 Hi Cics,

In Vangelis71’s thread I red about the MS Interrupt-Affinity Filter tool (See also: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/252867 ) to lock specific hardware too a specific cpu on a multi-processor platform.

The cMP-shell is locking the most critical audio thread to CPU1 on a software level. Would it be any good to use the Interrupt-Affinity Filter tool and lock al non audio critical hardware to CPU0 (so to free up CPU1) and lock the Lynx card (and possibly other audio critical hardware) to CPU1? (as Vangelis71 does in his Atom setup)

Mark

 

RE: * NEW * Windows optimisation using Autoruns and gpedit (Group Policy editor), posted on May 9, 2010 at 18:42:44
nola_powerman


 
I have minlogoon installed with cmp and latest version of cplay 48/121/tiny.
I'm only starting with what I figured should be safe to change. Some don't make a big difference. I'm just going with my ears, and not trying to figure out what settings should reduce resources:

Computer Config - AdminTemp..
Netmeeting.. Disable remote Desktop sharing=Disabled
Internet Explorer...(starting from the bottom)
Pop-up allow list=enabled (you have to click "Show", then Add", enter any text and click OK before it will let you choose apply Enable).
Turn off pop-up mgmt=Enabled
Do not allow users to=Not COnfigured
Turn off crash detection=enabled
The rest are DISABLED.
Internet Explorer...Internet Control panel
I just set all these to disabled without testing them individually.
Advanced Page..these two set to disabled...

So there are a bunch more folders just in this section and beyond. Let me know if you concur with these and if you see any other low hanging fruit...
Mike

 

Pinging cics: Hows the sound like comparing xp x86 to x64? i find it more detail., posted on May 11, 2010 at 01:00:54
lga775
Audiophile

Posts: 38
Joined: October 10, 2009

 

* Update * Core i3-530 32nm + Kingston HyperX DDR3-1375 1GB + GA-H55M-UD2H, posted on May 11, 2010 at 11:45:23
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 After a lengthy evaluation of nearly 2 weeks, I've gone back to my 45nm setup (E7200 + Kingston HyperX DDR2 + GA-G31M-S2L) as per recommendation.

Seger summed it best here. My experience is the same (i.e. dull veiled sound) even with lower RAM voltages of 1.300V and Vreff/Vaddress/Vdata=0.550/0.540/0.540.

Temperatures are very low with 7x24 playing yielding temps of only 34°C doing 192k@145db. Although power consumption would be lower it seem this GB mobo (GA-H55M-UD2H) is a poor choice for audio (it's a gamers board with fantastic BIOS control). There's too much crammed into it and there's no "clean" PCI slot. Perhaps LGA775's *-S2H mobo is a better choice.

 

What is your entire system setup? sound card? amps? dacs?, posted on May 12, 2010 at 11:30:51
lga775
Audiophile

Posts: 38
Joined: October 10, 2009
 is the problem only in dull veiled sound? or anything else?
if there is please state it.. so others will know.

 

RE: * NEW * Windows optimisation using Autoruns and gpedit (Group Policy editor), posted on May 12, 2010 at 20:26:37
nola_powerman


 
to continue..
Computer Components..Admin..Windows Components..
Disabled everything in:
Task Scheduler, windows messenger, media DRM, Movie Maker, Windows media player
On internet explorer (main folder) I changed everything to disable but "turn off crash detection".
Backing out into the Printers folder, I disabled everything there.

there are some folders like netorking or offline folders I might try next..although some of these folders start to sound dangerous to modify.

I am getting a much more realistic sound that is getting closer and closer to real instruments. my hardware will eventually be my limiting factor, but I'm sure some other of you would find this area of improvement to be really impressive.

 

RE: * Update * Core i3-530 32nm + Kingston HyperX DDR3-1375 1GB + GA-H55M-UD2H, posted on May 12, 2010 at 23:39:54
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 I hope you don't give up and have a chance to test on GA-H55M-S2H.
I believe lga775 has it.

Good listening!

 

RE: Different Experience with Core i3-530 + GA-H55M-UD2H, posted on May 13, 2010 at 06:05:35
jackwong96
Audiophile

Posts: 219
Joined: April 20, 2010
 After cics reported dull veiled sound with his Core i3 combo, I performed some listen test (again) bewteen my "GA-H55M-UD2H+Core i3-530 32nm+Kingston Value Ram DDR3-1333 1GB" and "GA-G31M-S2C+E7500+ADATA Vitesta Extreme Edition1GB". I have learned and benifited a lot from cics' contribution as well as this forum, therefore I feel obliged to share my findings and experience here.

Test Conditions

Bypass capactors were added to almost each and every Cap. underneath both MBs(this offerred good SQ improvement). I am using a DIY USB DAC (battery drived) and there is no issue with PCI interface. The same HDD and PS (a 90W pico ATX ps and a pure battery + regulator power supply) were used for the listening tests. The rest of the system is all DIY. Bios setting on the MBs are similar to those used cics. The Windows XP Pro SP2 is fully optimized as per the instruction on this Homepage.

Results

After listening to the two MB combos for a few times, a couple of friends and myself unequivocally considered that the Core i3 530 combo sounded better all round. With the Core i3, the imaging is better and the sound stage is deeper and more three dimensional. The piano and vocal sounded more natural and real, highs are more detailed and lows are more clear and authoritative. There are more ambience Power consumtion appeared lower by a margin as reflected by the temperature of the power supplies.

I don't know what is the cause of the difference in SQ between my combo and that of cics, perhap I didn't use any PCI slot, but according I what I've heard in the tests, the Core i3 combo does sound better than the G31+E7500. The diffence is more than marginal, I feel like listen to two systems, one with good sound quality and the other very good.

One thing I experienced with the Core i3 combo is that it has better rejection to poor power supply quality, perhaps due its sophisticated onboard swithcihng supply circuit and a lots of Oscon capacitors on the MB. When I first fire it up, no bypass capacitors were added to the MB but it already out did the G31+E7500 combo. However, when battery power was suppled to the two MB combos, there is more improvement with the SQ of the G31+7500 than the Core i3, although the latter still won.

Hope someone can do more tests on the Core i3 and other MB.

 

RE: Different Experience with Core i3-530 + GA-H55M-UD2H, posted on May 13, 2010 at 08:37:15
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 When I say dull / veiled SQ, take this into context of my 45nm setup. Another way of describing this sound is analytical and uninvolving. Overall there's the same amount of detail but it lacks that finer resolution and impact.

The key issue is PCI slots which are wired differently (more complex) and perhaps the *-S2H option does not suffer from this problem. Your experience using USB will be different.

Anyway, I'm planning to try another mobo which may offer improvement. Core i3 + DDR3 is a big step forward especially ito power consumption (7x24 playing temps were 34°C vs 45nm setup at 45°C). The mobo choice remains a challenge for now...

 

RE: What is your entire system setup? sound card? amps? dacs?, posted on May 13, 2010 at 08:41:50
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 See here for system - soundcard now used is Lynx AES16.

 

J&W mainboards ?, posted on May 13, 2010 at 14:41:01
Fidelity Castro
Audiophile

Posts: 46
Joined: April 27, 2010
 I had J&W Boards in the past for oc and was really stunned about the build quality, especially their phase design and current stability when overclocking. The mini itx board of this brand called mini x was the best build itx board i´ve seen, unfortunately it is AMD only. But... they will release a Intel G45 mini itx board soon, this could be a killer mobo. Like DFI they offer lots of bios options for fine tuning in bios.

 

RE: UD2H + Juli@ analog, posted on May 13, 2010 at 17:06:23
AstroD
Audiophile

Posts: 223
Location: So Cal
Joined: October 13, 2003
 I just added back my Juli@ with unbalanced analog outs to my UD2H system and I'm liking it. My experience says the stock Juli@ digital outs aren't that great with this board, but analog sounds quite good. Or maybe the stock breakout cables are the main problem with digital out. For a while I wanted to avoid a DAC to minimize jitter, and now with a good low voltage board, I'm back to that approach. Nice PRAT, detail, musicality.

I can't compare with the S2L board as I never had one.

 

RE: D510MO + Juli@ analog, posted on May 13, 2010 at 19:58:50
AstroD
Audiophile

Posts: 223
Location: So Cal
Joined: October 13, 2003
 Now I tried Juli@ analog in the Atom box and there's a nice improvement over the UD2H, particularly with symbols and acoustic guitar - HF sounds are much more evident in the mix.

I'm starting to prefer the least possible jitter-induced distortion compared to that produced by op-amps, etc. if I have to choose between an external DAC or lower quality sound card. I have a good silver coax cable and a good USB cable and the V-DAC/Pinkie is good, so at least to my ear (brain), there seems to be an inherent advantage to producing analog signals in a very low-power computer, one that's closer to the power needs of a DAC.

Still experimenting,
Dave

 

Affinity Filter tool , posted on May 14, 2010 at 01:36:54
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 hey mark,

this affinity tool is only for win2000, isn´t ?

I did change the core affinity manually acording to recommendation on my XP system (read lynx card & mixer one core 1).
cMP does set the affinity to it´s prefered setting per automatic, as you correctly point out.

but I think this apply to win2000 only.

kind regards

Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

Break-in report: Atom + Juli@ analog is stunning for the price, posted on May 14, 2010 at 14:46:11
AstroD
Audiophile

Posts: 223
Location: So Cal
Joined: October 13, 2003
 With more break-in, I'm stunned at what I'm hearing for the price. This setup is absolutely high-end, for about $500 for board, 320GB WD 2.5" drive, 1GB RAM, basic case (but good power supply), stock Juli@. I'm normally using a Krakatoa power cable, but in switching to the stock cable + PS Audio Duet conditioner, there is almost no difference.

I think some computer audiophiles at Intel were involved in designing this board.;)

Any new reports from anyone else using the D510MO?

The rest of my system:
D510MO -> Juli@ -> AZ Silver Ref -> Arcam A90 -> AZ Satori -> VS VR-1

cics, try this board!

Dave

 

* Update * These changes are no longer used, posted on May 15, 2010 at 07:41:34
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Using gpedit affects SQ. Problem is getting to a correct setup for which more time is needed.

 

RE: * Update * A wonderful new twist!, posted on May 15, 2010 at 08:22:40
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 After switching back to 45nm technology, I was surprised with the sterile sound and fortunately found the culprit! These new test changes (especially gpedit) were the cause. Also, an important BIOS setting not available in the H55M-UD2H mobo, PCI Latency, had to be addressed.

I reinstalled my 32nm setup with following changes:



  1. Upgraded to latest BIOS - F9d

  2. Used recommended settings as per site

  3. Used PCI Latency Tool 3.1 to set soundcard latency to 128. This adds a new service and requires BIOS devices under "Integrated peripherals" to remain enabled except for IDE, Serial Port and Sata ports 0-3. Remaining unused devices are disabled in Windows. Disabling other "integrated peripheral" devices in BIOS causes PCI Latency Tool to not recognise PCI devices.

  4. Vcc = 0.72500 (900MHz), Vgcore = 0.650 (400MHz)

  5. Vdram = 1.400 (600MHz), Vref = 0.600, Vdata = 0.560, Vaddress = 0.560

  6. Dram Timing = CL5 & Command Rate = 1


Sound quality not only meets previous best 45nm setup but surpasses it beautifully! I'm going to leave this setup for a while and see if there's further improvement. There's also another mobo on its way which hopefully removes the PCI Latency Tool.

Zalman cooler (with fan removed) does a great job. Temps are steady at 36°C (previous 34°C was achieved using Vcc of 0.70000V or one step lower).

 

Doggone it!! nt, posted on May 15, 2010 at 09:47:03
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 .

 

RE: * Update * A wonderful new twist!, posted on May 15, 2010 at 09:56:34
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Can you give perhaps an overview on what new stuff is required besides the processor, ram and case (items plus general cost...approximate)? Also I know you say it is better but for the record...is it a lot better?

Trying to assess whether I should embark on this new path.

 

Very good., posted on May 15, 2010 at 11:12:09
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 I'm glad you've been able to find a solution.

Do you think a future Bios update will address this PCI devices problem?

Are you also implying that "Autoplay changes" through gpedit should not be performed in an old system?

Thanks

 

RE: J&W mainboards ? - very interesting indeed!, posted on May 16, 2010 at 00:54:03
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 It looks pretty good. Atom 330 Minix is very well built and I definitely like the P4 connector - it's a must as most vendors drop this. Current Intel boards offer Atom 230 & 330 using the horrible 945 chipset.

I'll definitely try their Atom D510 option which is likely to be built (not yet available).

 

RE: Break-in report: Atom + Juli@ analog is stunning for the price, posted on May 16, 2010 at 01:02:04
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Intel's D520MO mobo doesn't provide a P4 connector - you may want to try either ASUS or Gigabyte options which offers a P4. Annoying thing about Asus is its limited BIOS options, similarly, GB does a stupid thing by adding another SATA chip (to provide 4 SATA ports as Intel's NM10 chipset only does 2). Importance of P4 is dicussed here.

Overall these mobos will yield excellent results - you'll get better results with a P4 connector as this allows moving the CPU to the dirty side. For the Asus option you could use Crystal CPU ID to set lower freq and voltage.

 

RE: D510MO + Juli@ analog, posted on May 16, 2010 at 01:05:47
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 I'm very impressed with my Core i3 after fixing a few important things. Have you done a similar setup for it?

It would be interesting to compare Atom D510 vs Core i3. In both case power consumption is very low. Intel plans to release a 32nm version of the Atom.

 

RE: * Update * A wonderful new twist!, posted on May 16, 2010 at 01:24:10
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Cost is ~$300 for Core i3-530, H55M-UD2H mobo, Kingston DDR3-1375 1GB RAM and a 1156 adapter for mounting fanless heatsink.

I want to compare this mobo to an alternate cheaper option. This should remove the need for PCI Latency Tool and its simpler design (i.e. less mobo features) may improve SQ.

Is it a lot better? Lets put it this way, I'm never going back to 45nm technology! Whilst there's no new detail, the big improvement across the board is how well low-level detail is fleshed out. There's harmonic richness that's very pure and beautiful. Also a bit more air and lower noise floor. Sounds emerge from the deepest of blacks I've ever heard. Damn this sound is addictive.

I'm testing different cPlay buffer options as I expect Tiny option to offer best result with Core i3+192k SRC@145db - 3 cache layers where Tiny option reduces L2 cache footprint allowing for HT to work better.

 

RE: * Update * A wonderful new twist!, posted on May 16, 2010 at 03:07:50
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Ok thanks I'll wait for your update on the cheaper mobo alternative.

 

RE: Break-in report: Atom + Juli@ analog is stunning for the price, posted on May 16, 2010 at 04:12:55
AstroD
Audiophile

Posts: 223
Location: So Cal
Joined: October 13, 2003
 Interesting. Could I safely just hook up another ATX PSU to the P4 on my UD2H?

 

RE: D510MO + Juli@ analog, posted on May 16, 2010 at 04:18:48
AstroD
Audiophile

Posts: 223
Location: So Cal
Joined: October 13, 2003
 I downloaded the F9 BIOS but haven't installed it yet. What's new with F9 that you can see? I'm on F8 still.

 

RE: Affinity Filter tool , posted on May 16, 2010 at 06:21:16
hfavandepas
 Hi Play-mate,

Vangelis71 is using it on Vista SP2, but some googling suggests that it also can be used in XP. Here ( http://tech.xptechsupport.com/61-free-tools-from-microsoft-to-support-windows-xp.html ) it says that the affinity tool used to be a part of the XP resource kit.

Yes I also red that cMP locks software to a specific CPU. But does cMP also locks specific hardware to a specific CPU? And if ‘no’, is it any good to do so in a cMP setup?

But since I don’t really know if cMP is also locking specific hardware to a specific CPU and I also don’t know if it is any good to do so on a cMP setup (and Cics didn’t comment on it in this threat: http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/7/74114.html ) I thought: well lets make it specific question, so that others and/or Cics can comment on the use of the Interrupt Affinity Filter tool in a cMP setup.

 

RE: Affinity Filter tool , posted on May 16, 2010 at 09:07:46
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Had a brief look at this interesting tool. One needs to test and confirm results.

My preference is to eliminate as many devices from the system that way doing away with unwanted interrupts altogether. There's still a few (less than 10) remaining and this utility could help. When using 2 separate cores there's a good chance this will be of benefit - using a single core with HT will be less so as caches are shared.

I've been too busy trying to fix my 32nm setup...

 

RE: Break-in report: Atom + Juli@ analog is stunning for the price, posted on May 16, 2010 at 09:14:17
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 That's how my power is configured using UD2H. You don't need a fancy secondary ATX supply - for me it just has to be silent. Sound would improve significantly. Also make sure your BIOS is setup correctly (follow discussion here).

On F9d BIOS, I don't see anything new just GB's notes on changing CPU microcode which I consider very important.

 

No Hurry. , posted on May 16, 2010 at 09:22:53
hfavandepas
 No hurry, it can wait.

Hi Cics,

Thankx for reply.

So it’s worth for inmates to put some time and energy in testing and listening if it betters sound quality. That’s all for now.

Thank you

 

You've did a right thing! It's breaking through another level., posted on May 16, 2010 at 11:57:27
lga775
Audiophile

Posts: 38
Joined: October 10, 2009

 

I find the pci latency tool makes the sound too analytical! others is ok., posted on May 16, 2010 at 12:47:25
lga775
Audiophile

Posts: 38
Joined: October 10, 2009
 pci latency tool makes the sound too analytical! somehow i did not like it..
its not music that i want..

 

RE: UD2H + 1212m analog + ultra clean AC, posted on May 16, 2010 at 15:13:02
AstroD
Audiophile

Posts: 223
Location: So Cal
Joined: October 13, 2003
 I installed F9d last night. I can't be sure it's real, but it seemed to sound better after the new BIOS was installed.

I tried PCI Latency Tool 3.1 and it seems to be incompatible with Win7.

I've done all the tweaks to the UD2H BIOS with great results. Awhile ago I tried changing the QPI but it wouldn't boot so I left that alone. I'm running stable at VCore 0.675v, Graphics core 400mhz / 0.850v, 100 BCLK, 6.0 memory / standard, etc.

I recently changed the AC setup to be Krakatoa -> PS Audio Duet -> Krakatoa (borrowing it from the now-unused DAC) -> UD2H and it sounds really good, very dynamic, clean midrange, very live, and using the Duet doesn't seem to have any negative effects as it has previously with sources and amps. This is using the 1212m and analog outs, Mogami 1/4" to RCA cable (remarkable cable for the price). Without using the Duet, the DAC sounds slightly better, but giving the PC the cleanest possible power, it pulls ahead. I've never actually tried these two power cables with the Duet, very impressive combo.

On using a second ATX PSU, is it a must to hardwire the dirty P24 connector to be permanently on? If I don't do that, do I always turn on the second dirty PSU first? Is there any risk of damaging the CPU this way? Thanks.

I love the ability to save and restore entire BIOS configurations with this board.

Dave

 

RE: J&W mainboards ? - very interesting indeed!, posted on May 16, 2010 at 15:23:17
Fidelity Castro
Audiophile

Posts: 46
Joined: April 27, 2010
 Hi cics

Afaik it´s a small company, the board designers were working for Abit before wch is legendary for its quality. I think that we may could take some influence to some bios options wich we need for cMP². I could ask the german guy who´s in charge of the distribution over here, he´s in tight contact with the asians and possibly can tell if it´s possible or not.

Would be in his interest beeing the exclusive seller over here for J&W, with the Klang & Ton cMP² series in mind this could create a win win situation.

 

RE: * NEW * Alternative approach to CPU (P4) power supply, posted on May 16, 2010 at 17:47:27
AstroD
Audiophile

Posts: 223
Location: So Cal
Joined: October 13, 2003
 I just did the P4 bypass tweak with a spare Antec PSU I had, and it's a nice SQ improvement! Whereas before, the DAC was slightly better than the 1212m analog, now it's a very close race, with the 1212m continuing to have a very slightly more solid bottom end, but the midrange is basically equal now (DAC won before). What's really interesting is the Mogami (1212m) vs. AZ Silver Ref (DAC) sound the same, but with completely different DACs. I must have a different weak link now, probably speakers, but maybe the amp equally so.

Are all the Antec Earthwatts PSU's ultra quiet running? My spare Antec 450w PSU is not silent but it's fairly quiet.

Anyone using fanless ATX PSUs like Silverstone makes?

Dave

 

RE: * NEW * Alternative approach to CPU (P4) power supply, posted on May 16, 2010 at 18:14:01
ForgotPassword
Audiophile

Posts: 87
Joined: September 21, 2009
 I had an Antec EA430 before replacing it with a linearly powered Pico. In the cMP^2 scenario, it is perfectly safe to run the PSU "fanless" (simply unplug the fan) as long as you're not concerned about voiding the warranty. My old configuration (G31M-S2L+E7200+EA430) could run 24/7 for weeks with no stability or heat issues.


"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we would let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines." N.P.

 

RE: * Update * A wonderful new twist!, posted on May 16, 2010 at 21:23:48
kclo


 
This is great. I have been waiting for your final words to build a 'real' music server to replace my current Aspire One netbook + Devilsound dac. I must say that the netbook has been giving me immense musical pleasure for the past year.

 

RE: * NEW * Alternative approach to CPU (P4) power supply, posted on May 16, 2010 at 21:50:30
AstroD
Audiophile

Posts: 223
Location: So Cal
Joined: October 13, 2003
 Are you using two Picos for the motherboard and P4?

I haven't tried a Pico yet.

I just removed the fan from the spare PSU, no problemo.

 

RE: I find the pci latency tool makes the sound too analytical! others is ok., posted on May 16, 2010 at 23:20:12
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 ASIO latency setting is very important - set this to lowest possible. For PCI latency at 128, ASIO latency must less than 64. What is your ASIO latency?

For ASIO@64, test PCI latency at 136 or 144. For ASIO@96, test PCI latency at 200 or 208. Always keep PCI latency in multiples of 8.

 

RE: UD2H + 1212m analog + ultra clean AC, posted on May 16, 2010 at 23:27:56
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
On using a second ATX PSU, is it a must to hardwire the dirty P24 connector to be permanently on?


Yes. There isn't an easier way to turn on an ATX PSU. Power at P4 is not a problem as CPU startup is controlled via BIOS and P24. If you haven't moved P4 to the dirty side yet, do so and let us know of improvements.

PS - thanks for the tip on saving / loading BIOS. What a pleasure.

 

RE: * NEW * Alternative approach to CPU (P4) power supply, posted on May 16, 2010 at 23:35:05
ForgotPassword
Audiophile

Posts: 87
Joined: September 21, 2009
 Only one Pico, I use a plain 12v linear for the P4. Pico + 12v, while not a complete linear setup, is still a significant setup from the Antec EA430. Well worth the investment imo.
"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we would let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines." N.P.

 

A custom mini-itx mobo exclusive for audio whould be a big step forward, posted on May 16, 2010 at 23:35:29
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 I'd love to see 2 options: H55 (supporting core i3) and NM10 (for Intel's new Atom processors). In both cases all unused devices including onboard soundcard must be removed, we need flexibility on powering options (e.g. jumper to supply PCI slot with external 5V supply, etc.) and only 1 DRAM slot. I'm sure we can list more 'must haves'.

I'd pay 2-3 times the price of a OC capable mobo as long as quality and minimalism is maintained.

 

RE: A custom mini-itx mobo exclusive for audio whould be a big step forward, posted on May 17, 2010 at 00:13:52
ForgotPassword
Audiophile

Posts: 87
Joined: September 21, 2009
 How about the existing 1156 itx boards? They (afaik) only come with one pcie slot, however, so the "mainstream" cmp cards can no longer be used.
"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we would let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines." N.P.

 

RE: UD2H + 1212m analog + ultra clean AC, posted on May 17, 2010 at 02:56:01
AstroD
Audiophile

Posts: 223
Location: So Cal
Joined: October 13, 2003
 I hooked up an old Antec True Power 2.0 PSU to P4 after enabling "always on" as described, and it works great. The improvement is one of those small but welcome global improvements. Does the quality of the P4 power matter much if it's only powering the CPU? Let me know if you find out what the UD2H P4 actually powers.

 

Stunning performance with Peaktech ( velleman ) Linear PSU powering p24 & p4, posted on May 18, 2010 at 10:26:15
Fidelity Castro
Audiophile

Posts: 46
Joined: April 27, 2010
 Thx to Hfavandenpas who recommended me to power the p4 with the Linear PSU as well the performace is truly stunning now, it was very good before using it on p24 with the pico psu but now...

All german cMP² users not beeing able to build a linear psu themselves like me have to buy the Peaktech 6080 and a Pico PSU 150 xt ! For 45,-€ the peaktech costs it was a stupidly good upgrade in my system !

 

RE: * NEW * Alternative approach to CPU (P4) power supply, posted on May 19, 2010 at 02:44:36
AstroD
Audiophile

Posts: 223
Location: So Cal
Joined: October 13, 2003
 How did you get the physical P4 connector working with the linear 12v, cannibalize another ATX PSU?

I just disconnected the fan from my Corsair HX620, and it's a VERY nice improvement. Noticeably more ambiance, nice increase in bass extension. I'm back to going USB to the DAC with the Wireworld cable - that seems to sound most right to me.

When I went with a separate P4 a few days ago, I noticed horns sounding much more like horns. Before that they were recessed, with no bite.

Next step is a linear 12v for P4.

Love these cheap power tweaks!


 

See link, posted on May 19, 2010 at 04:20:29
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 All you do is cut off one end to directly solder to your linear supply and the ther into your p4 slot on the mobo.

 

RE: See link, posted on May 19, 2010 at 04:36:51
ForgotPassword
Audiophile

Posts: 87
Joined: September 21, 2009
 What theob said. I recommend rewiring the P4 with higher quality cables though. The improvement over "stock" wires is quite noticeable.


"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we would let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines." N.P.

 

: RE: *Power Consumption* Core i3-530 32nm + GA-H55M-UD2H, posted on May 19, 2010 at 08:26:24
jackwong96
Audiophile

Posts: 219
Joined: April 20, 2010
 I measured the current consumption of my "Core i3-530 32nm + GA-H55M-UD2H + Kingston DDR1333 Value Ram" combo and post them here for your reference. The current measurements were done by a Fluke digital meter and should be accurate. I used a USB DAC, not a PCI sould card.

BIOS Setting

VCORE =0.66875V
Graphic V =0.562V
DRAM=1.3V
DRAM Termination V=0.35V
Data VRef=0.54V
AddressV Ref=0.54V

The power for the MB are supplied by three linear regulators where the sources are three sets of lead acid batteries.

Current Consumption

12V
0.56A Surge during boot up
0.44A steady throughout CMP2 non-playing condition
0.46A playing @44K to 96K upsampling

5V
2.5A Surge during boot up
2.29A throughout CMP2 non-playing condition
2.34A playing @44K to 96K upsampling

3.3V
0.825A* Surge during boot up
0.825A* steady throughout CMP2 non-playing condition
0.827A* playing @44K to 96K upsampling

* The power source powered two regulators, 5V for a SSD HDD (rated at 0.35A) and 3.3V for the MB. Therefore, the current consumption of the 3.3V should be around 0.477A.

The total power consumption for the MB should be around 18.8W.

This MB combo sounds wonderful. This is the best music source I have ever heard.

 

RE: : RE: *Power Consumption* Core i3-530 32nm + GA-H55M-UD2H, posted on May 19, 2010 at 13:15:04
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Your quote....'This is the best music source I have ever heard....' is offtimes repeated by me to fellow audio travelers and they look at me with great skepticism. 'Yes but you no longer have a vinyl front end, and you forget'. I think to myself I do remember good vinyl off an ETII tonearm/Koetso cartidge driven by a 2 hp compressor on a VPI turntable and yes it was good but not as good as my Cmp^2 front end.

I'm glad someone else has said it.

 

Atom D510MO vs. Core i3 (GA-H55M-UD2H), posted on May 19, 2010 at 23:50:40
AstroD
Audiophile

Posts: 223
Location: So Cal
Joined: October 13, 2003
 So I did a comparison tonight with both machines using power supplies with the fans removed, and the Core i3 using a separate ATX PSU for P4.

The Core i3 machine is BIOS optimized, and you can't do much with the Atom, but it's designed for low power.

The Core i3 wins - bigger soundstage, more air, a little more musical.

 

RE: : RE: *Power Consumption* Core i3-530 32nm + GA-H55M-UD2H, posted on May 20, 2010 at 02:45:11
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 I'm puzzled by the high 5V current draw @2.34A - this would drop to 1.99A after removing SSD 5V supply. H55 is rated at ~5W, DDR3 should be no more than 2W and all esle should be disabled (i.e. no power draw from USB) - so there's something else causing higher consumption. Anyway of checking this?

CPU consumption at 5.5W is amazing!

 

RE: : RE: *Power Consumption* Core i3-530 32nm + GA-H55M-UD2H, posted on May 20, 2010 at 07:25:09
jackwong96
Audiophile

Posts: 219
Joined: April 20, 2010
 I fully agree with you. Yet I still have my vinyl source with me, which is an old Technics turntable with a standard tonearm and a Shure V15 IV cartridge.

My CMP^2 source (battery drived) and AD 1865 DAC (balanced with direct-heat tube amplification, battery drived) sounds very analogue when compared to my vinyl, and it easily surpasses my vinyl in terms of clarity, low-level details, blackness, noise floor...... cPlay 2.0b36 is a big step forward, very natural and smooth compared to previous versions. Thanks CICS for his efforts and good work done, please keep it up.

This is a live comparison on what can be acheived with CMP^2. Of course, mitigation should be given to the difference in built quality between the two sources, as extreme efforts and resoucres have been put on the CMP^2 machine and the DAC, but not the vinly front end.

 

RE: Atom D510MO vs. Core i3 (GA-H55M-UD2H), posted on May 20, 2010 at 08:06:42
jackwong96
Audiophile

Posts: 219
Joined: April 20, 2010
 I've tried a couple of set ups too. Reference can be made to the results below for choosing MB and CPU.

Core i3 530(GA-H55M-UD2H) > E7500(GA-G31M-S2C) > GA-D510UD > an Asus Netbook
with Atom D450.

The same PS was used on the first three combos.

I believe the power supply circuit and BIOS flexibility on the MBs have significant impact on the SQ.

 

RE: : RE: *Power Consumption* Core i3-530 32nm + GA-H55M-UD2H, posted on May 21, 2010 at 00:04:53
kclo


 
I have been saying to a couple of audiophile friends of mine who are also on the cMP^2 path, that the latest few versions of cPlay is better than my previous analogue setup (Sota + ET1 + Decca). This is great achievement considering that I am still using an interim server setup (netbook + Devilsound) and am looking forward to building the 'real' server, pending final words on i3 and the new motherboard.
Considering that my analogue setup is no longer there (most of my favorite LP, though, are still with me), I have cics to thank for bringing back recorded music fun into my life.

 

Some more refinements, posted on May 21, 2010 at 10:45:44
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 I find setting DRAM Vterm to 0.500 gives better results after testing 0.600 & 0.350 - you have it at 0.350.

Have you installed PCI Latency Tool? It will list USB controllers - default is 0 (not programmable). I'm not sure if USB latency can be adjusted but its worth trying.

Use following formula: 

       PCI Latency = ASIO latency (in samples) * 2 + 2


For example, if ASIO latency is 64 samples then PCI latency should be 130. For 32 its 66 and 48 its 98. I have mine at 66 and there's good improvement.

 

Question about PCI riser cable, posted on May 22, 2010 at 11:08:57
Nikola
Audiophile

Posts: 13
Location: So.California
Joined: January 20, 2005
 I was wondering if I can use a PCI riser cable to get the Juli@ away from the board and make it easier to take the I2S out and connect it as close as possible to the DAC. I am sure the two additional contacts are making things worse but what about the additional length of the cable - will it be as bad as I am afraid it is?TIA

 

RE: Some more refinements, posted on May 23, 2010 at 04:20:56
jackwong96
Audiophile

Posts: 219
Joined: April 20, 2010
 Thanks, I set DRAM Vterm to 0.510 and it was better.

I installed PCI Latency Tool and adjusted the USB lantency. I could not make it work properly on my USB driver (Musiland 01USD) since its ASIO buffer was not defined by no. of sample and I have no way to determine the value. Instead, I installed ASIO4all. The ASIO buffer was set at 64 samples and I set the USB latency to 130, as per your advice. It worked fine with noticable good improvement.

I tried adjusting the DRAM timings which brought about small but noticable improvement too. my setting:

5
1
1
2

5
1
1
2
5
5
15
1
5
1

2

Please try and see if SQ improvement can be acheived.

 

RE: : RE: *Power Consumption* Core i3-530 32nm + GA-H55M-UD2H, posted on May 23, 2010 at 04:35:10
jackwong96
Audiophile

Posts: 219
Joined: April 20, 2010
 My USB is self-powered and does not draw any current from the MB. The 2.34A is supplied to the MB alone, the 5V SSD is powered separately by another 5V regulator where it shares the same powered source with the 3.3V regulator.

I rechecked my setting. All unnecessary devices were turned off in the BIOS. I measured the 5V line of the MB again and the reading remained the same. I tried enabling the CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E) and C3/C6/C7 State Support which resulted in a decrease of 0.2A current. However, SQ deteriorated under such condition.

There are a lot of perierals on the MB, although many of them are switched off in the BIOS they may still draw current as I noticed the temperature of the MB. Perhap the 5V also powers the graphic chip(45mn). The 5 Volt line is indeed ‘the powerhouse’.

Having said that, 2.34A is still lower than reported in the "P24 current measurements. - hfavandepas" post(Playing music: 3,13 (peak: 3,14)).

 

I've search for but I'vn't found: cmp shell on windows 7 ultimate, posted on May 23, 2010 at 14:56:32
audiodan@tiscali.it
Audiophile

Posts: 108
Location: Cagliari - Sardinia
Joined: July 7, 2009
 Hi
has someone tried to install cmp shell on windows 7 os? Is it possible?
Which results?
I've found a very good setting using cplay with w 7 ultimate, on an assembled music server, but I'm curious about a better sq with cmp shell in this unorthodox use
Thanks for response
Daniele (Daniel out of the Italy! I'm a male :-)

 

RE: I've search for but I'vn't found: cmp shell on windows 7 ultimate, posted on May 23, 2010 at 19:52:37
jackwong96
Audiophile

Posts: 219
Joined: April 20, 2010
 CMP^2 is optimised for XP SP2/3. Please see threads:

"Lacking a search function for this thread... One question please.... for now ;) - Julien Therrien 23:31:42 05/06/10 (4)" and

"Go with XP SP2/3 and avoid 64 bit version (avoids extra address lines). For Search use Ctrl+F in Browser. nt - cics 12:43:52 05/07/10 (1)"

 

RE: : RE: *Power Consumption* Core i3-530 32nm + GA-H55M-UD2H, posted on May 23, 2010 at 19:57:46
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Jack,

I'm very interested in more details on your motherboard power supply setup. I'm working up a linear supply inspired by Gene & Mikhalov & have it working with the GA-G31M-S2L & ES2L boards, but not with the GA-EG45M-UD2H which seems to have a more sophisticated startup process. I'm happy that there's a technique for doing this with the earlier boards, but have been concerned that we won't be able to port this forward.

Now that I know it can be done, I'm very curious what you're doing to make it work with this board & if you have to do any sophisticated timing or communicating with the motherboard.

TIA!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: I've search for but I'vn't found: cmp shell on windows 7 ultimate, posted on May 23, 2010 at 22:26:00
audiodan@tiscali.it
Audiophile

Posts: 108
Location: Cagliari - Sardinia
Joined: July 7, 2009
 Hi jackwong96
I know that cmp shell is optimizated for XP.
I'm only curious if it can works also with a very different os like 7 with no crash or the needing to reinstall everything.
That's all
Daniele

 

RE: Some more refinements, posted on May 23, 2010 at 22:55:14
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Thanks for confirming PCI Latency and Vterm.

No need to use ASIO4ALL as cPlay reports buffer in samples (see diagnostics). For example:


ASIO Driver Initializing...
	Name (ASIO4ALL v2)
	Player ASIO version (2)
	Driver ASIO version (2)
	Message (No ASIO Driver Error)
	Channels (inputs: 2, outputs: 8)
	Buffer details (min: 64, max: 2048, preferred: 64, granularity: 8)
	Sample rate (   96000.0)
	Output Ready? Not supported
	Preparing buffers... successful
	Latencies (input: 64, output: 64)
ASIO Driver initialized.


Item is reported under "Buffer details" as "preferred: ?". This is the ASIO buffer size cPlay uses. Only issue for Musiland driver is how low ASIO buffer can be set (try its ASIO Control Panel via cPlay if this can be set lower). Maximum PCI Latency is 255.

Will test DRAM Timings.

 

Can you test with Core i3-530 32nm + GA-H55M-UD2H?, posted on May 24, 2010 at 11:32:04
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 I've abandoned the alternate mobo option. It unfortunately requires both P4 and P24 to be sourced from same PSU. Also BIOS allows for voltage increase only. So that leaves us with 2 Gigabyte options: H55M-UD2H & H55M-S2H. There's a mini-itx version (GA-H55N-USB3) which unfortunately doesn't have a PCI slot.

I'd like more input on this new technology before changing recommended hardware and settings.



 

RE: Stunning performance with Peaktech ( velleman ) Linear PSU powering p24 & p4, posted on May 25, 2010 at 01:32:22
AstroD
Audiophile

Posts: 223
Location: So Cal
Joined: October 13, 2003
 Is that basically the same as this unit?

http://www.frys.com/product/5095835?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

I saw this at Fry's today and was intrigued, but they were closing and had to get moving with my regular shopping. I saw nothing about it being linear, but are all lab style units like this one linear power supplies?

All the raves about linear PSUs has me very interested in trying it. If the above unit would work, how would I make it work with the P4 connector?

Dave

 

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