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cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player

41.183.0.21
Posted on December 30, 2007 at 05:42:01
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
cMP

The open source high-end Memory Player

December 2007

Music delivery is perfected. cMP (cics Memory Player) delivers memory playback (without RAMDisk or other utilities) thereby eliminating disk interference during playback.

In creating cMP, its critical objective was the implementation of fundamental designs that:

  1. Remove disk traffic interference during playback without having the inconvenience of manually loading files into a virtual RAM drive, etc..
  2. Ensure time critical sample delivery to the external DAC. Streaming of samples from precision upsampled (to 24/96) sound buffers to the soundcard must be fast, lean and mean! There's no room for any bottlenecks or overheads here, otherwise we risk increasing jitter and compromise Bit Transparency.
  3. Provide better power supply and remove the need for a ferrite core on the mouse connection.
  4. Provide flexibility to choose any player (Foobar2000, Winamp etc.).
  5. Further minimize the Windows footprint to that more optimal than XP's Embedded SP2 operating system as used in large scale commercial applications. This provides the foundation for the 2nd design goal.
  6. Offer a CD/DVD-ROM drive without impacting sound quality.
  7. Offer proper remote usability as locating that mouse cursor from a distance is cumbersome.
  8. Contain costs but also allow for a complete elegant one box solution.

Such designs in theory should render a stunning sonic experience. Its implementation however was a massive challenge. Did this theory meet the sonic expectations? Yes as evidenced in cMP's bit perfect performance and ultra low jitter.

How does it sound? The most descriptive word that comes to mind is emotional. cMP's sonic purity is truly profound. It grips those musical lines across any genre with remarkable precision. Soundstage improves, there's better layering and even more ambient information. Bass is tighter, with natural vocals & instruments.

FRONT



BACK



More pictures and screenshots are available from the cMP documentation link provided below.

FEEDBACK

Pre-release testing by music lovers located all over the world yielded further insight and perfection of cMP.

  • A music lover based in the US with limited or no computer training:

    This has been a great way to learn about computers in addition to making something very useful for enjoying music.

    Compared to my ###### (read expensive high-end traditional CD transport), even with some tweaking and learning left to do, this sounds much better. Dynamic, yet relaxed (effortless?).

    I started listening last night at 7:00 and had to force myself to go to bed at twelve. Amazing spaciousness. It is truly getting close to GREAT analog and is much better than average analog already. It is simply amazing.

    I found your instructions easy to follow ONCE I understood what I was being told to do. To repeat, I have never done anything like this before, so your instructions were clear without resorting to "hand holding". I think the process was easier than you warned. I kept saying to myself, "that wasn't so bad!"

    After cMP:

    My only audio friends are very analogue-centric. Sometime in January I am going to have them over to audition the cMP. I think they are going to be amazed. Of course, I am confident that JULI@ is going to be the icing on the cake. If this takes the whole thing another step closer I think they will be grateful that one can enjoy listening to CD's as much as LP's. Of course, in many ways your approach does things even LP's cannot do. It is becoming a toss-up, but the best kind; one can enjoy either one equally well!

  • A music lover based in Europe with more than 2000 CDs:

    the quality of sound reproduction is quite amazing. My motivation for building was that I am not wealthy and could never dream of, let alone buy, a high-end CD player. Even this project was considerably more than I could properly afford and I began it with some trepidation. But it's been well worth it.

    After cMP:

    I spent several hours last night testing the latest cMP. I did several A/B runs with cMP on the one hand and Foobar launched via old batch files and reading direct from disk on the other. There is no doubt in my mind that the sound using cMP is a significant improvement even with my modest setup.

    The quality is quite stunning, significantly better than previous. (My partner agrees with this - she's no audio junkie but she is an informed music lover.)

  • A music lover based in Australia:

    I have been wanting to relay to you my own experience with your methods and give you some feedback . So far, I have found your approach produces very good results so I must convey to you my thanks and appreciation. At some point soon I will formalise my thoughts and send them to you or post them. I believe what you have done has become an excellent resource/asset to people interested in PC Audio.


FEATURES

  1. Disk traffic interference during playback is eliminated. Advanced RAM playback is based on available physical RAM (as reported by Task Manager or Process Explorer). This means up to 4GB (XP's limit) can be used allowing for 24/192 RAM playback. Recommendation is to use 1GB RAM (which yields available physical RAM of ~830MB - enough for any CD at 16/44.1). cMP achieves memory playback via the system cache and not through a simulated virtual drive. This approach removes Windows disk I/O overheads (irrespective of whether disk is physical or virtual) hence, it's more optimal.

  2. Extensive Windows & Player (Foobar2000 or other) optimizations yielding much lower jitter and bit perfect delivery. System level optimizations are done at runtime (which cannot be achieved using .bat files and utilities like Process Explorer). cMP is designed to work with 32 CPU cores!

  3. Open architecture. cMP allows for any player to be used: Foobar2000, XXHighEnd, Winamp etc. (player just needs to handle .cue files like foobar2000 otherwise play entire .wav). Any ripper software can be used (as long as it conforms to .cue single file standard like those created by EAC). Additional flexibility is provided, for example use cMP to drive your HTPC playing any movie from any genre (a .cue file for each .iso file is needed).

  4. All .cue files are processed by cMP which means the player focuses only on playing the CD. In Foobar2000, the album list control component is not needed. In techno speak this is called separation of concerns.

  5. Power delivery to the mobo is improved by further reducing interference. The need for a ferrite core is removed.

  6. Full function remote control using a wireless mouse is achieved. Your entire library can be navigated: play any CD, eject it, jump to any track or change volume. This is achieved using just ONE mouse button: the Wheel! Use the mouse as a normal one (left-click) or hold it in your hand (like a remote control) and wheel away using your thumb. Of course other buttons are used for more convenience. There's no need to find that tiny mouse cursor and left click! (You can still do this if needed).

  7. Your entire library that you so diligently ripped is fully compatible with cMP. No proprietary / lock-in stuff here which forces you to re-rip. Just point cMP to your music folders containing .cue and .wav files (or flac or other). cMP supports any content file as long as cue files are defined for them. For flac content files, the known EAC bug of adding an additional .flac suffix to the content file's name must be removed (otherwise your cue's content file directive will not be found).

  8. CD/DVD-ROM drive is implemented without compromising playback quality. For the purist, this can be unplugged without opening computer or rebooting.

Bottom line: cMP is a (one box) highly advanced memory player that's easy to setup and use. cMP's core strength lies in newly developed operating system software components (built in c/c++) that uses XP SP 2 as a foundation. Windows Explorer is done away with while cMP takes over and more. Bit perfect delivery is achieved yielding an ultra high resolution of more than 23.5 bits (a limitation in measuring instruments prevents measuring cMP's perfect resolution). DAC's have yet to achieve this resolution (as a minimum of 141db SNR is needed)! For cMP's bit perfect measurements, see (Bit Perfect Measurement & Analysis ).


GETTING STARTED

Visit cicsMemoryPlayer.com where you'll find detailed easy to follow instructions and much more.

Ensuring clean AC power delivery to equipment is very important. For DAC, pre-amp and amplifiers, use a dedicated AC circuit. For source equipment, use another AC circuit as this is where cMP's main PSU should be powered from. Use another less important AC circuit for powering cMP's 2nd dirty power inlet. Use of quality power cords and line conditioners is recommended.


Special thanks to those that provided such brilliant feedback and suggestions during pre-release testing. cMP's software is at version 1.0b as more feedback is desired. Your input, insights, criticisms, experiences and suggestions all help.

Thank you.

 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
I should add..., posted on May 2, 2009 at 07:10:55
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 That if you are re-ripping your music to recordable CDs, using a machine that has been optimized with cMP-styled techniques should make significant difference... but with a cMP around, who listens to CDs anymore?

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. I had started gathering the equipment to do this and have been very glad that the cMP was developed before I could get too far on this.

 

No advantages in cd audio extraxction using EAC in CMP optimized computer ?, posted on May 2, 2009 at 08:25:03
Bertel
Audiophile

Posts: 83
Joined: February 12, 2009
 I second cics and Greg on this:

In theory there should not be any difference in whatever environment you run EAC (as long as it performs without error) - EAC is about EXTRACTION of data into files which are either correct or not, not the REPRODUCTION of these data, that's a completely different story as we cMP2 evangelists know so well ;-)

In practice I didn't care about any theory but just wanted to find out and hear and so Itried it: ripped with EAC on cMP machine when I had set it up a few months ago, ripped on my standard PC and also on a very noisy old laptop computer. File comparison showed that files were identical, playback of these files brought no audible difference whatsoever at least to my ears.

Hope this gives others a bit of the confidence it gave me that the environment for running EAC really doesn't matter.

Regards,
Robert

 

Problem: Asus Xonar essence doesn't fit on G31M-ES2L, posted on May 2, 2009 at 09:12:28
Apokalypse
Audiophile

Posts: 222
Location: Victoria
Joined: April 1, 2005
 I decided to go with the Asus Xonar essence as the sound card only to find I can't put it in the PCI-e slot because the RAM is in the way. Very disappointing to say the least.

On this site http://canhtpcbeatcd.blogspot.com/ the writer says "I feel Asus P5Q Deluxe sounds better than Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L." This board will be able to fit the Asus but doesn't have onboard video.

Does anyone have any recommendations? I'd prefer to get the Asus card to fit, but don't see how this is possible.

 

RE: Problem: Asus Xonar essence doesn't fit on G31M-ES2L, posted on May 3, 2009 at 12:36:55
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Can you post a picture to show us what you're dealing with?

Greg in Mississippi

 

RE: Problem: Asus Xonar essence doesn't fit on G31M-ES2L, posted on May 3, 2009 at 17:23:46
Apokalypse
Audiophile

Posts: 222
Location: Victoria
Joined: April 1, 2005
 If you look at a pic of the motherboard you can see the PCIe slot is in line with the RAM slots. The Asus card physically won't fit in the slot because it crosses over the RAM.

 

RE: Problem: Asus Xonar essence doesn't fit on G31M-ES2L, posted on May 4, 2009 at 06:19:24
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 I've seen PCI-E adapters that allow repositioning the card (flexible connection) or turning it sideways (rigid connection). One of these should allow you to get it fitted.

Sorry, don't have a specific source. Try Amazon or Newegg, search for 'PCI-E riser card'.

Greg in Mississippi

 

P24 current measurements, posted on May 4, 2009 at 12:57:52
Bertel
Audiophile

Posts: 83
Joined: February 12, 2009
 I'm in the process of going "all battery" for P24 too (P4 done), so in order to right-size the respective power lines I considered it a good idea to do a few measurements (just as Dave and Mark have done on P4). Thought I'd share if anyone else is interested - brought a few interesting insights, at least to me.

Current setup: Almost "standard" recommended cMP2 setup, i.e. Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L, E7200, 1GB Mushkin EM2-6400 [superior to ValueRam and HyperX], Lynx AES-16 [will go Juli@ w/ external 3.3V PS next week], cPlay 2.0b23 SSSE3, all optimizations incl. Minlogon done - did I forget anything...?). Measurements done with Antec Earthwatts 430 for convenience, picoPSU showed same results.

All BIOS optimizations done. CPU host frequency at 150 MHz, SPD at 2.00, Mushkin RAM timed manually at 3-3-3-7, CPU GTLREF at 0.566V, CPU Voltage at 0.76875V (it's a shame but I can't get any lower, no way system would boot then...). CPU-Z reports Core Voltage to be at 0.752V. Core Speed is 900MHz, Bus Speed is 150MHz, FSB is 600MHz.

-------------

"Special" power rails:

* 5V StandBy:
- When PS turned on before pressing Power Switch: 170mA
-> During operation (idle / playback): 50 mA

* Power_Good:
- No current could be measured with my rather "rough" multimeter -> seems that since this is a signal line, it is sufficient that just the voltage is provided with some very low current, certainly below 50mA, according to my measurements below 10-20mA, but 5V provided

* Power_On:
- Switches from 5V to 0V at startup, so not relevant here

* -12V:
- As little as ~10mA during operation

NOTE: Most important (and for me quite surprising) :
All of the above can be TURNED OFF COMPLETELY during operation, they are NOT NEEDED during playback (at least in my [recommended] setup)! I ran all of the aboce through a switch, and I could turn them off at any time even during music playback without any adverse / negative effects. Didn't expect that... ;-)

So the "relevant" lines to take care of come down to:

-------------

"Regular" power lines:

* 12V:
- Starting at 180mA at startup, quickly coming down to 140mA and staying at that level during idle and playback

* 3.3V:
- I had supposed that being the "main line", but it isn't - starting at ~300mA and staying constant at that level during idle and playback

* 5V:
- Now that's the real thing... Starting right off at 3 - 3.2A (!), going up to 3.6 - 4.2A during boot up - and breaking off as soon as cMP is loaded... This 5V line is so volatile, changing current so quickly and swiftly that it seems to not tolerate my rather "slow" multimeter - couldn't get the system up and running with the multimeter phased in - will retry with caps in place :-)
Nevertheless, the learning is: tis is the rail with the BIG draw at ~ 3.5 to 4.5A (more precise measurements to follow when caps are in place)

-------------

Hope you find this as useful as I do - did that the best I could, please notify me of any flaws or errors I made, comments highly appreciated.

Cheers,
Robert

 

RE: P24 current measurements, posted on May 4, 2009 at 15:02:11
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Robert,

Very useful information, sir! Thanks for doing & posting this.

This will be very useful for creating a fully-linear computer power supply... it's clear that the 12v P4 and the 5v ATX-24 lines are two of the key 'workhorse' lines.

One thought that may be useful for a fully linear CPS is to power each of the 5 5v lines with a separate power supply... regulator or battery. Powering them separately and measuring them separately may provide other information on how they are used and how we can best optimize each.

Another useful technique might be to use very high-quality supplies (again, regulated or battery) for the 3.3v and 12v, since they aren't pulling a lot of amps.

And of course, while it's useful to put additional filtering caps across each of these three voltage rails, based on your data I suspect that separate filtering caps across each of the 5 5v lines may provide additional benefits even if separate supplies are not implemented.

Its not surprising to me that the 'special' rails can be turned off after the computer is on (In fact, I bet that you could boot the PC with the -12v and the 5v standby turned off). One thing to note, tho, is that the -12v is used by the Juli@'s analog section (although in my setup before separately powering it, I was only measuring -9v at that point on the Juli@ board.

Two more things... give us more details on your battery-power setups, both for the P4 and the ATX-24. Then also, give us more details on the Mushkin memory... what other ones did you compare against, how is it superior to the others, and did you try other timings settings?

Thanks for the most provocative and useful post I've seen here in a long time (of course, besides the almost 2x weekly releases of new versions of cPLAY!).

Greg in Mississippi

 

RE: P24 current measurements, posted on May 4, 2009 at 20:16:42
Bertel
Audiophile

Posts: 83
Joined: February 12, 2009
 Greg,

thank you. Yes, I'm completely with you that powering every power rail separately is a good idea - it might be a bit of overkill, but separation and elimination of interference and cross-balancing issues (quite a concern in "standard" ATX power supplies) will help bring the various components even more "at rest" and let them play as easy and effortless as possible. When I have swapped my Lynx card with Juli@ and powered it separately, P24 "only" has to power MoBo and memory (still and awfully complicated task), that'll help. I'm planning on using completely separated supplies (i.e. battery packs) for every voltage line anyway, including thorough regulating plus filtering caps - more to follow as I progress ;-)

Regarding booting with -12V and 5V standby turned off: You'd loose your bet ;-) PS for P4 and P24 has been my special field of interest for the past weeks, and while P4 is easy, P24 needs quite some attention... As you might know, ATX standard requires a proper and quite stict power up scheme (more details can e.g. be found here: www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/ATX12V_PSDG_2_2_public_br2.pdf). 5V has to be there in the first place for the computer's power switch to have the MoBo's power control circuit (PCC) start the sequence, hold low the formerly held high 5V "Power_On" line (the green line on P24) to have the power supply ramp up the three main voltage lines and after successfully doing this issue the Power_Good signal (5V, the grey line on P24). This all has to be done in a corridor in a 100ms range with specific ramp rates, and I found the Gigabyte board be rather strict at that - I tried for weeks to emulate that timing and ramping manually (with switches and caps etc.) but didn't succeed, you need some kind of power management component to take care of this. I'm currently looking for someone to build such a power sequencing model from readily available components like Actel's Fusion or Linear Technologies' LTC2928 (cost currently quoted at 10-15k and above for developing that...), but in the meantime as a workaround just power up with my regular ATX PS (Antec) and then switch off the special rails not needed and switch over the main rails to battery power. Quite rough a method, I know, but works well for 12V and 3.3V for the time being, but still stability issues with the "workhorse" 5V rail. Will keep you updated once I have gathered more experience and details. Nevertheless, 5V standby and -12V line is a must to be present at startup, otherwise MoBo's PCC will not power up.

Regarding my P4 battery PS: No special timing etc. issues have to be taken care of here, powering P4 is pretty easy and straightforward as many have shown us here before (many thanks for their respective guidance and information!). In my case I power this with a pack of 3 boards with 5 high-quality 1.2V/1.8Ah NiMH cells each, i.e. 18V/1.8Ah (recharged by a transformator fed into the central control unit, all of these modules are manufactured by a small local electronics company). Since the current draw is low at ~350mA during playback, this is good for a 4 hour listening session (I usually don't have that much time in one go anyway...). Power then is fed into a voltage regulator which brings it down to precisely 11.94V as measured to be optimal by Bernd and confirmed by Theo recently. Since the regulator is designed to be quite "slow" and "weak" on purpose and thus is very forgiving, large caps can follow - I run the power into 5 x 10kuF Mundorf caps followed by a 47uF cap as quick buffer and a 1uF one as bypass (I am extremely positive about the Mundorfs, can't praise them enough). this setup works like a charm without any hassle for me. While the sonic effects were rather subtle from the start, I feel it overall added transparence and clarity and ease of playing, especially in midrange and upper bass - to my ears it rather sounded a bit as I could here the processor working now without the limits of a rigid, tight and polluted power supply as before, but that's what I wanted to hear for sure ;-) That's more or less a similar setup I'll try to follow with P24 too, will let you know once I get there (will require mighty PB cells instead of the NiMH for the 5v rail though).

Mushkin memory has been a recommendation by Alfred/sonics, so he's the one to both take the credits and comment on that in more detail. Haven't done much comparison myself - I almost exclusively play 16/44.1 WAV files upsampled to 24/192, had ValueRam 256MB before, swapped that with an "original" HyperX UL stick w/ 512MB which brought significant improvements to me , but still swapping that to the 1GB Mushkin stick made things even more "right", beautiful and in place - for me quite a substantial improvement. I started with SPD in BIOS set to "Auto", CPU-Z showed it had clocked itself in at 4-3-3-7, so the only thing I did was lower the first value (cycles) to 3 which had an unexpectedly clear effect in bringing back lateral spacing and soundstage.

I think that's more than enough for one post now - thanks for your patience... ;-)
Robert

 

Not yet, mister ;), posted on May 9, 2009 at 02:10:07
abysstw


 
We're still looking forward to the pictures you promised!

 

Sorry, took them last weekend, but haven't had the time to post them..., posted on May 9, 2009 at 06:51:57
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001






Here they are.

Hard to see much, it's all very 'busy' now.

I'll be working on another Juli@'s digital board this weekend and will take pics as it's done... it'll be easier to see the add-on regulator there.

 

Anybody ever try grounding the GA-G31M-S2L mobo to a wall socket screw?, posted on May 9, 2009 at 07:37:41
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I did it on a lark and a hunch and I'll be darn if it didn't make a sq improvement--small but noticeable.

 

Crowded, yet beautiful in a disorderly way. But..., posted on May 9, 2009 at 08:37:30
abysstw


 
I think it's a good idea to move the linear supplies out of the computer. I noticed an improvement in SQ after doing so.

 

RE: Crowded, yet beautiful in a disorderly way. But..., posted on May 9, 2009 at 13:40:36
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Agreed that moving them out is a good plan. But there's always that tradeoff between distance (less radiated field interference) and longer connecting cable (more cable losses & cable quality becomes more important).

Also moving them out can reduce the amount of transformer-caused vibration that is fed back into the electronics.

Trying to deal with all of this effectively, I'm slowly gathering ideas for a custom case. Current thoughts include:

1. Three tiers with a butcher-block platform at the base of each tier.

2. PS's mounted onto base of bottom tier. That tier will sit directly on the floor on either spikes or isolation feet and have no solid connection to the upper tiers.

3. Middle tier and top tier bases will be mounted onto a carbon-fiber-based support/surround structure, basically a tube shaped to fit around the butcher block bases. The motherboard mounts on the base of the middle tier with the DAC on the top tier (may hang below to shorten I2S connections).

4. The support/surround structure tube will fit over, but be spaced away from the bottom base and have the top two butcher block bases mounted to it. It will be multi-layer... current plan is copper shield on the inside, then damping material, with a carbon fiber exterior.

5. Each tier will have own shielding zone, with the copper layer on the inside of the support/surround separate for each tier. Then there'll be a copper layer on the top of the base beneath the tier and another on the bottom of the base above. The top-middle-bottom shield layers will be tied together for each zone.

6. A small mobile-type touchscreen will mount on the outside of the support/surround tube in the middle of the middle tier.

This is an 'over the summer' project for me & I'm still tossing around ideas for it.

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. I should note that the GA-EG45M-UD2H motherboard is a bit deeper than the older GA-G31M-S2L, so I'll be shortening the base of the Juli@'s supply & possibly rotating it 90 degrees to make room for the new board.

 

Late-breaking news..., posted on May 11, 2009 at 16:55:18
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001






First, attached are the pictures I promised from a Juli@ I'm modifying for another inmate... came off a bit neater than the one I did for myself because it's for someone else!

Note the Dexa regulator for the 3.3v laid down over the board to minimize the footprint.

BUT, there's more! I'm getting ready to add a BNC connector for him to bypass the breakout connector. I spent a little time tracing the connections identified in an earlier post to their sources so I can wire it as directly as possible... and the SPDIF output terminates at the high 6-pin component labeled 'HanRun HY600652' just to the left of the breakout cable connector. Looking up HanRun's website (http://www.hanrun.com/hren/sortinfo.asp?ClassID=91), it is likely a interface transformer. Checking both the + and - SPDIF connections, NEITHER connect to the ground. The SPDIF is transformer-coupled!

Two thoughts about this... first, a second transformer is redundant. Second, if we can find the parameters of this unit, upgrades may be possible.

I still think that an I2S connection is going to be the best bet. But for those that are tied to SPDIF-input DACs, this news should be a bit of piece-of-mind (some decoupling is already present!) and offer a possible upgrade path!

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. The SPDIF input is also transformer-coupled, it's component is just to the right of the output transformer in the picture.

P.P. S. Lifting the output pins on the transformer from the board will remove the connections from the transformer to the breakout connector from the circuit... likely another worthwhile tweak!

 

Great work!, posted on May 11, 2009 at 23:38:36
abysstw


 
Hi Greg,

Just before I place my order of partsconnexion...

How did you connect the Dexa Regulator to the pins on the Juli@? From your picture, I only see two connections to the Dexa (looks like GND and input to me), and one (3.3v output?) seems to be missing. Is the output connected somewhere else, or simply hidden in the picture?

Thank you in advance!

 

RE: Great work!, posted on May 12, 2009 at 06:41:39
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001



You can see it better in this picture... the output pin is conneected to the pad where the heatsink flange of the regulator was (same as output).

The nice thing about doing it this way is that they form a nice tripod that helps support the regulator and prevent pulling up the pads.

Several things to know about doing this mod:

1. Replace/add the caps first and test to make sure it's ok. Then remove the two caps near the regulator before pulling the old one and putting on the new one... then put the caps back on.

2. The pads are delicate. When removing the caps and regulator, use a tiny screwdriver to pry them up, but be sure that the solder is melted before moving them... it should take almost no force to lift. On each component being removed, use your soldering iron to heat the joint on one one end/leg, GENTLY lift it, then go to the next.

3. The connection pins on the Dexa regulator have to be moved from one side of the board to the other to make it fit well. Plan how they need to fit make it work before putting them back in.

4. Check that you are hooking up the capacitors AND the Dexa regulator with the correct polarity at least 3 times before you hook them up and at least 3 times after. YOU WILL NOT have a chance to correct it if you hook them up wrong and power it up.

5. Make sure each cap and the regulator is secured so that they can't be hit and tear off the pads. For the regulator, I used two layers of original Dynamat on top of the controller chip (labeled 'ESI' and then a layer of double-stick to secure it.

Let me know how else I can help

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. I really want to try the Paul Hynes series and shunt regulators here too... about the same package, they should fit too.

 

RE: Great work!, posted on May 12, 2009 at 08:13:55
abysstw


 
Thank you taking the time to explain, I think I know where to position the pin now.

I'm glad that I read your instructions before proceeding any further. Though admittedly, there's still a good chance that I'll frying/breaking the Juli@, even with the additional help.

I know that your time is pretty tied up, but will you consider modding the Juli@ for "another inmate" in the future?

 

RE: Great work!, posted on May 12, 2009 at 08:20:40
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 LOL.

I can fit it in... I'm getting pretty good at it and doing it fast.

Let's see how the BNC mod works first.

Greg in Mississippi

 

Really?, posted on May 12, 2009 at 09:37:22
abysstw


 
Thank you so much!

By the way, have you tried using RAMDisk on your computer transport? I think I hear some subtle improvements by loading cPlay from the virtual RAM drive instead of my HDD. Might be worth trying out.

 

Input and Output capacitor sizes, posted on May 12, 2009 at 22:51:39
abysstw


 
How significantly do the capacitor sizes affect sound quality? I plan on using BG NX 1500uf/10v as input capacitors, and a spare BG N 100uf/50v for the output capacitor. Are they too big, or too small?

TIA!

p.s. Are you using a 180uf/20v Os-Con for the output cap? I think the Black Gates are probably STD 1000uf/16v.

 

haven't tried RAMDisk, waiting for SSD prices to fall (NT), posted on May 13, 2009 at 07:54:22
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 NT

 

I use an SSD (too used to typing HDD). Even so, placing cPlay in RAMDisk seems to subtley improve SQ. nt., posted on May 13, 2009 at 08:12:32
abysstw


 
.

 

RE: Input and Output capacitor sizes, posted on May 13, 2009 at 08:37:15
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 I haven't spent a lot of time listening to various capacitor combos... for these caps, I used how Peter Daniel setup his premium NOS DAC as a starting point for selecting which caps went where and roughly sizing them. I did see a couple of references to some comments he made on selecting caps... See here:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=574431#post574431

and here:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=581230#post581230

And have used those comments as some general guidance.

I liked the sound of his DAC when I was using it with my Shigaclone CD drive and he uses parts similar to what I've seen some other modifiers use.

To summarize the basic starting point, Peter's NOS DAC uses 1000uf Black Gate standards before the regulators, 10uf-50uf Black Gate N/NX after the regulator, 4.7uf/50v Black Gate N for coupling (unavailable now), Oscon for purely digital PSs.

I think the parts you plan to use will be fine, the sizes are certainly in-the-ballpark and the N/NX are better than what I used.

Later!

Greg

P.S. Yes, I used the 180uf/20v Oscons from the Parts Connexion and 1000uf/16v BG standards.

 

RE: Input and Output capacitor sizes, posted on May 13, 2009 at 09:41:17
abysstw


 
Thank you, the information is very helpful!

I find it interesting that Peter Daniel thinks more highly of the STD 1000uF than Ns of the same size for power supply applications. The combinations do seem promising, however.

I might try a power supply with the 1000 STD / 50 N combo in the future, and see how it works out.

 

Direct-Connect BNC Mod.., posted on May 13, 2009 at 18:11:28
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001









Just finished testing it. It came out very nice... the sound with my Peter Daniel NOS DAC at 44.1, even through a BNC-RCA adapter, was much more tactile and impactive bypassing the breakout cable. This was the first time I was tempted to go that way instead of 192 upsampling through the Juli@! I may have to do this with one of my Juli@ cards!

It also came out very neat... see attached pix.

Note that the nut was scrounged from a fuse holder. You have to remove it when you put it into the computer and then put it back on... carefully because it wants to cross-thread. But do put it back on... it is a delicate connection at the board. And the washer is a rubber faucet washer.

Also, if you do this, be sure the card is completely seated in the PCI connector when you mount it... because it isn't as firmly mounted to the hanger, it can go in and only be partly seated. I don't know if it will survive getting turned on that way... be aware of that.

The BNC connector I used is available through Digikey and you can find it by searching for part number A97562-ND. To have room to solder the connections to the legs of the output transformer you have to grind a bit off the corner of the plastic base of the connector that faces the component side of the board ... you can see this in the first picture.

You can't get more direct without hard-wiring!

Greg in Mississippi

 

cMP Error, posted on May 15, 2009 at 00:37:36
cktc
Audiophile

Posts: 287
Location: So Cal.
Joined: May 7, 2005
 I just installed cMP, it has error "Process: explorer.exe Terminated.
ERROR: Unable to get Access privileges.
optimiseProcesses: Cannot Set Access priviledges. Play CD failed."
I'm using Vista-64. Does anyone know how to fix it?

 

RE: cMP Error, posted on May 15, 2009 at 07:20:35
seger
 You are starting out with the most difficult operating system for cMP. If you can't use XP, move up to Windows 7 - a more hospitiable environment for cMP than Vista. (Current Vista users take note: you can add any folders to the cMP library - not just from the Desktop!!)

I could never get to cMP-mode with Vista 64, so left it, but even with the basic mode you have problems to overcome. First, get control of Vista - turn off UAC, but that isn't enough - you have to enable the real Administrator account and run everything from there. Second, I think the cicsMemoryPlayer folder needs to be in the "Program Files (x86)" directory not the "Program Files" directory, and then you have to edit the cicsMemoryPlayer.pth file: CUE_PLAYER line has to go to "Program Files (x86)". Third, you have to optimize the Vista system as outlined by cics before using cMP.

Really, don't waste your time with 64 unless you have no other choice. XP is best, followed by Windows 7.

 

cPlay will not launch in cmp mode !, posted on May 24, 2009 at 19:21:46
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 dear cmp fans !

I have tremendous joy of using cPlay (2.0b25) in my setup with jack audio kit to connect to a digital XO by thuneau and further on via ASIO to my lynx twoB card,
-but I´m still struggling to get the full cMP2 mode in operation.
I´ve copied the .pth file from cPlay into the memory player folder, but cPlay does not want to launch.
in settings "real-time" and "critical" diagnostics say player exited and tread to null.
in "player" setting it will just not load/be visible...

-any ideas of whats going wrong ?

any hint is highly welcome !

kind regards leif

 

Is this only in cMP Mode or also with XP Mode?, posted on May 25, 2009 at 09:21:18
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 With cMP 1.2, the default player is cPlay (no need to copy the .pth file).

In either case, cMP expects to find cPlay in its default installation folder (c:\program files\cics play). If this is different, you need to change the .pth file (to new cPlay folder).

The other reason why cPlay will not start is if you are using the wrong version. If your CPU only does SSSE3, and you installed SSE4, cplay exists immediately.

 

both modes, posted on May 25, 2009 at 14:26:58
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 hey cics

thanks for your reply.

in both xp and cMP mode the player will not launch. I can swop between them in different windows. cPlay is definitely running. cMP loads the selected album from it´s panel but does not show cPlay when booted to cMP.

i have figured out that the tread in the .pth file in 1.2 is towards cPlay.
my Intel E7300 does support the SSE4.1 !

what am I doing wrong ??

did almost finish the BIOS settings this evening and experienced another few increments of quality playback....this project is just soo competent in regards to high-fidelity !
profoundly "emotional" as you say, cics !

kind regards

 

diagnostics say :, posted on May 25, 2009 at 16:09:28
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 RAM loading file "c/......." wav size 440MB

processed to 10 MB
processed to 20 MB
processed to 30 MB
.......
processed to 440 MB

Player started.

Task=#N "c:/ program files/cicsPlay.exe"%C
Player Process Affinity:system 0x0012F 1A8 before 0x00000040 after 0x0012FA8
Player optimation by Player
=>Player exited
player action completed




....does that make sense cics ?

 

RE: diagnostics say :, posted on May 25, 2009 at 16:56:31
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Set RAM Load to NO (cPlay RAM loads internally).

Diagnostics should look something like this:


Request to play:

	[ Andrea Bocelli - Romanza ]


Player started.
       Task = #N "c:\program files\cics Play\cicsPlay.exe" %C
       Player Process Affinity: system 0x00000003 before 0x00000001 after 0x00000003
       Player optimisation by Player.

==> Player exited.

Play action completed.


Notice the "Task" folder is different to yours. Change your cicsMemoryPlayer.pth (in C:\Program Files\cics Memory Player) "CUE_PLAYER" line to:


CUE_PLAYER #N "c:\program files\cics Play\cicsPlay.exe" %C


What worries me is your affinity values: 0x00000040 & 0x0012F1A8 - these are garbage!

 

cMP and HTPC, posted on May 27, 2009 at 13:43:27
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 My initial aim has been to build a HTPC capable of playing 2ch music and 5.1 movies at the best possible level.

Like many others I have built a PC following cics's "The Art of Building (AOB) Computer Transports†version 0.3 and cMP Installation Guide & User Manual documents. I followed the notes closely and implemented almost all settings.

I employ a LynxTwo-B card. Through the use of Thuneau's Allocator as XO, Jack Audio Kit, J River MC and ASIO driver (with the help of a few inmates to whom I am grateful) I managed to active bi-amp my speakers for 2ch listening, although not in cMP mode. The use of ASIO is recommended by cics's notes and...well, almost everybody.

I would also like to keep the above two main speakers configuration for multi-channel listening as Front-L/R, because it would be unpractical to recable for movie playback. cMP's Installation Guide in its Sample HTPC chapter briefly mentions that "given its open architecture, cMP can be used successfully for playing movies. Excellent results have been gained using Power DVD." I have tried that unsuccessfully - I must say, however, that I was not in cMP mode.
It seems to me that all DVD/movie players around employ DirectSound whereas for the aforementioned software I require ASIO. The only player that comes close to it, and yet so far, is VLC with its supposed compatibility with PortAudio. Unfortunately - from the voice of one of the developers - "the PortAudio used in VLC might be built without Jack support. AFAIK ASIO support is also missing from portaudio used in VLC."

Does cMP manage to play movies through ASIO which is normally used in its music delivery? The fact that an ISO file is loaded into memory shouldn't make it capable of playing through ASIO...

Please give me any kind of help for reaching movie playback... Otherwise, after putting a lot of time, money and effort, I will have to give up on active bi-amping and digital XO which was one of the main reasons for building a cMP-like HTPC in the first place.

I thank you in advance for your help and, above all, for this project and everybody who put effort into it.

 

RE: cMP and HTPC, posted on May 28, 2009 at 02:40:16
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
Does cMP manage to play movies through ASIO which is normally used in its music delivery? The fact that an ISO file is loaded into memory shouldn't make it capable of playing through ASIO...


cMP will not dictate audio output settings. I use a separate cMP for DVDs with 1TB of storage. In your case, you could use one cMP but this would require switching players (via .pth) file for Music and Movies. Your idea of using ASIO is very good if only you can find a DVD player that supports ASIO. This way, main L&R channels remain as is whilst additional channels are used for movies. You may want to look into Zoom Player.

Also, do not RAM load ISO files - they way too large.

 

RE: cMP and HTPC, posted on May 28, 2009 at 02:43:08
monaco
Audiophile

Posts: 30
Joined: August 1, 2008
 Hi Bibo01,

In advance of an expert reply from cics:

cMP is not a player - it is in effect a shell programme which removes unwanted XP services, loads the chosen file into memory and launches the appropriate player e.g foobar 2000 or cPlay for music

It is cPlay which requires an ASIO interface to work - not cMP. The cMP options menu allows you to nominate RAM load or not and identify which services you suspend when in cMP mode.

Follow the guidelines and modify the .pth file to nominate your player for dvd's. Do not forget cMP works from cue files.

good luck

 

RE: cMP and HTPC, posted on May 28, 2009 at 03:06:10
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Yes, I was aware of that.
Sorry, I did not express myself properly.

 

RE: cMP and HTPC, posted on May 28, 2009 at 03:17:44
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 I am prepared to switch players for Music and for Movies.
Unfortunately, as you say "Your idea of using ASIO is very good if only you can find a DVD player that supports ASIO".
That is a huge "ONLY".
It means that Music player would use ASIO and Movie player would use DirectSound. It also means that my 2ch configuration - bi-amp + digital XO - is not feasable.
I did have a look at Zoom Player, but it does not support ASIO. Actually, other people requested it but developers do not seem too interested in that.

It looks like I have reached the end of the road! :((

I am now looking into the possibility of entering the PC with an external DVD player and come out through ASIO...I wander if it is possible?!

 

RE: cMP and HTPC, posted on May 28, 2009 at 09:19:55
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 cics,

You as developer of cPlay, is a multi-channel version of cPlay totally impossible supporting therefore ASIO? :)
I suppose you get into a labbyrint of A/V codecs...

 

What are you guys using for memory?, posted on June 6, 2009 at 20:30:02
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12587
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 I just ordered all the parts for a proper cmp box and I just couldn't find some of the recommended memory or 256mb for that matter.

Where is a source for some low latency stuff?

I ended up getting some brand I had never heard of (always used kingston or kingston hyperx) but I think it had decent timings. If anyone has a better option please let me know



 

the recommended 256 is no longer available at NEWEGG, posted on June 7, 2009 at 09:58:34
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 that is for sure.

This seems to me to be these most similar, though it is 512.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820144165

There is always EBAY, though I cannot remember the model # of the KINGSTON 256 - if you do not know it I can look it up. Just let me know. Should be somewhere in the thread.

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

Here is one offer on EBAY, posted on June 7, 2009 at 10:04:59
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 http://cgi.ebay.com/Kingston-KVR533D2N4-256-256MB-Memory_W0QQitemZ160174667885QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item254b27786d&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

This is the good one.

Kingston-KVR533D2N4-256-256MB - the model number to look for.

 

RE: Here is one offer on EBAY, posted on June 7, 2009 at 10:43:00
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Thanks for the head's up!

Another that works pretty well and is preferred by some is the Mushkin 512Mb 512MB EM2-6400 5-5-5-18 1.8V available directly from them for about $12.

Then the ThermalRight SI-128 SE is also discontinued, but I found them in stock at http://www.quietpcusa.com/index.aspx.

And finally, I've found the Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L on EBay recently too.

Oops, almost forgot... Juli@'s seem to be getting rare too. I wanted to pick up another spare and have been watching Ebay for a couple of weeks... and just about a week ago, the number listed on Ebay diminished and the cost went up from about $130 to $175. But searching via Google, many places indicate that they have it in stock.

Greg in Mississippi

 

Thanks everyone, one more question., posted on June 8, 2009 at 21:40:05
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12587
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 what is more important, low latency or smaller memory size, if one has to pick?

 

RE: Thanks everyone, one more question., posted on June 9, 2009 at 03:18:00
seger
 If you want to use 256MB RAM DDR2, go with the Kingston Value RAM that Rick recommended - you'll find there aren't many others available anyway.

If you want to use 512MB, you have more choice, so look for CL4 (CAS Latency 4) RAM sticks - Kingston and Corsair have been good for me. Very hard (impossible?) to find the CL3 Kingston that cics first recommended, but the CL4 RAM will easily run at CAS latency 3 when you have underclocked your system as per latest cMP specs.

Avoid CL5 RAM - I haven't tried it, but others report bad sound - no surprise.

As for which sounds better - the differences are small, and may depend on your luck with the individual RAM module you get. They are so cheap, get a few and pick the best one!

 

RE: Thanks everyone, one more question., posted on June 9, 2009 at 03:26:09
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 Dawnrazor wrote:

""What is more important, low latency or smaller memory size, if one has to pick?"


I'd say latency, every time. I'm convinced it's a critical parameter for RAM in a slow computer.

As you know, memory is slow compared to processors with a trade-off between clock speed and latency. RAM able to "keep up with" a fast CPU needs more cycles to do so - i.e. it generally has a higher latency than RAM that can only keep up with a slower device. (Not all slow RAM inevitably has low latencies but low latency RAM will be on the slow side.)

As you are slowing down the CPU to lower RFI (watch out for the Herz Police), there is no need for fast RAM but there is benefit to be had from low latency. OTOH, the extra power drawn by larger capacity chips is modest.

Back in January, I asked inmates "Does RAM quality matter?" and got some interesting replies (and a few witty ones, as you'd expect). Eventually, I changed the RAM in my cMP2 box for Kingston KHX6400D2UL/1G (2 x 512 MB, 3-3-3-10) as recommended by, I think, carcass93 and adjusting settings as suggested by (again, I think) Greg to 3-3-3-6. The difference was clearly audible.

The above is only a hypothesis (OK, a guess) though I find it credible. However, even with the same latency spec, different makes of RAM do seem to sound different. As to why that is, I'm at a loss.

Hope that helps,

Dave

 

I was not recommending, just reporting, posted on June 9, 2009 at 08:23:59
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I am under the impression that cics is using the Kingston 256 and
I use it because of that. I figured that was what was wanted.

I have not tried many others, other that the HYPERX 512 which was the previous recommendation. I think the 256 is better in my system

Nonetheless, I have always, simply, followed cics's formula since I wanted to hear what he was hearing.

If he has made a subsequent recommendation I have missed it!

 

3rd generation Gigabyte Ultra Durable MoBos - again!, posted on June 16, 2009 at 08:46:15
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 hey cMP fans !

has anyone got any experience with these new "Ultra Durable" boards yet ?
Kristian has asked before, but maybe we can cast a little light into which of the gigabyte offerings would work well for audio.

do these boards have significant higher power requirements and different BIOS adjustments ?

I´m not doing a straight memory player, as the board has to drive my Lynx Two B card too.
-any thoughts are very welcome.



Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: 3rd generation Gigabyte Ultra Durable MoBos - again!, posted on June 16, 2009 at 10:09:15
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 GA-EG45M-UD2H

It holds a lot of promise. I'm hoping that a new BIOS update will be available soon that will allow a better setup using this card. I hope to do another comparison in the next couple of weeks.

See here:

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=53247

And here:

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=51459

And here:

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=51362

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

Which capacity batterie for cMP HTPC, posted on June 20, 2009 at 06:05:23
hanssatink
Audiophile

Posts: 79
Joined: September 13, 2008
 Hi all,

I am rebuilding my PSU for feeding my cMP pc with 12V batterie.
Will post some pictures when i am finished.

I doubt what capacity batterie i should need for listening 4-5 hours before the need of charging.

Should 50ah be enough? Eanyone got any experience with this?
i suppose a gel or traction batterie should be the best choice.

 

God is in the details..., posted on June 20, 2009 at 20:54:57
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 I was reminded of that tonight. I was moving my gear around to make room for one of my turntable setups, none of which have been run for several years.

Most of the work was in re-cabling / re-shelving my DVD & VHS players (yah, my system is also a sorta AV setup... But most of the time, the AV stuff is all unplugged and it mostly acts as a very hair-shirt stereo).

But I did move the cMP2 around a bit while doing the other stuff. This takes some care as my harddrive and all my linear supplies are just sitting in the case (with some care to control vibrations), but not secured.

I put it all back together (after spending some time watching/listening to couple of movies through both the DVD and VHS players... They sound pretty good when the audio output is going directly through that hair-shirt stereo setup!). And it didn't sound right... Bright, splattery, conjusted, bass didn't flow. Since I moved it around, likely stuff shifted inside. I open it up and the HDD is no longer on it's damper feet (I have the drive mounted to a block of bamboo, wrapped in ERS cloth, sitting on three Herbie's feet, and weighed down with a VPI brick-substitute made from an old laminated transformer core). I put it back in as it should be, fire it up, and the sound is back to snuff.

I'm debating moving the drive outside the case if I can come up with a good mounting setup.

I'm also breaking in a couple of Hammond chokes in the AC for the dirty supplies... They're about a week into the break-in, I hear that they'll continue to change for at least another week, but I immediately heard some improvements in background blackness and bass detailing when I put them in and that has improved with break-in time. Remember, these are the dirty supplies... HDD, LCD, and the one active USB port for the mouse and touchscreen! They ARE serious linear supplies (oversized transformers & regulators, good diodes and caps, and 47,000uf caps on the raw DC) going through a 16'-long Ryland's-inspired braided extension cord to a separate AC circuit in my house as specified by cics. Shouldn't make much of a difference, huh? But it does and improving the AC filtering took it up another notch.

Some people want to use their computer to play music. They install some music software, maybe network it to other systems in their house, surf the net on it, run antivirus, let their kids use it for playing games, etc. They get one level of sound quality from this.

Other people want to setup a computer to play music. They build up a cMP2 or setup one of the many computer music playback configurations, PC, MAC, or Linex, XP, Vista, or Windows 7, whatever. They may select specific software and hardware, spend some time configuring the system to optimize it a bit, and likely use it only for music playback. They get a higher level of sound quality.

And a few people want to use a computer as component in a digital playback system. Here, they start to do the things that one would do to build a high-end CDP/DAC combo... Vibration control, optimized power supplies, radical system configuring, selected hardware, paying attention to connecting cabling, etc. I hear a lot of rewards in going this way... I won't be able to do a comparison between my cMP2 and my vinyl setup for a few more weeks, but my cMP2 is definitively besting all of my previous digital playback setups in every way. Yah, it's really nice to have my entire CD library on a harddrive and accessable with a few clicks of a mouse, but it's the sound quality that makes it really worthwhile.

And at this level, virtually everything matters. God is in the details!

Lotsa fun!

Greg in Mississippi

Everything matters!

 

RE: Which capacity batterie for cMP HTPC, posted on June 21, 2009 at 11:58:52
Bertel
Audiophile

Posts: 83
Joined: February 12, 2009
 Hans,

congrats for deciding on batteries! :-)

The proper capacity for listening for 4-5 hours without charging depends I'd say on a number of factors:

- What parts of the PCs power supply are you willing to power with batteries? Only P4, or also P24, or even the "dirty supplies" etc.?

- You write "cMP HTPC" - how close is your system to the "recommended" setup, i.e. what CPU / RAM / PCI cards / software do you run, and which file formats do you use etc.? I assume that the "HT" (=Home Theatre) part in "cMP HTPC" might require additional calculation ontop of a "standard" cMP setup's power consumption.

For a "standard/recommended" cMP setup, you could use two methods of calculation to get the current draw:

- A rather exact one for every line involved, looking at the various measurements that have been made on P4 and P24 consumption. Here you have ~350mA @ 12V on P4 = 4.2Watt, and ~140mA @ 12V plus ~300mA @ 3.3V plus ~4200mA @ 5V on P24 = 1.7 + 1 + 21 Watt = 23.7Watt, or 27,9Watt in total. Once you power all that with 12V batteries (e.g. P24 through a picoPSU), you have a current draw of 27.9Watt / 12V = 2.3A

- In cics' currently recommended setup with parameters set as specified, he says "power consumption will be below 20Watt", so 20Watt / 12V = 1.7A

Now you have to consider the discharge characteristics of the batteries you intend to use. If you e.g. take Panasonics 7.2Ah 12V VRLA model (LC-R127R2P), it will provide a terminal voltage of ~12V for ~60mins / ~90mins at 2.3A / 1.7A . So in case of these batteries you could use 5 or 6 of them in parallel and be quite safe for 4-5hrs, plus reducing the overall internal resistance to acceptable levels.

I myself tend to extreme solutions ;-) so I would recommend to use just 2 of Panasonics 28Ah 12V batteries (price ~100EUR, so still acceptable) - their terminal voltage falls below 12V at ~2A discharge current after ~600mins, so you're really safe plus you get a decent internal resistance - which I would strongly recommend to combine with proper capacitance following the batteries anyway!

Hope that helps
Robert

 

RE: Which capacity batterie for cMP HTPC, posted on June 21, 2009 at 12:24:27
hanssatink
Audiophile

Posts: 79
Joined: September 13, 2008



Robert,

Thanks.

I use the GA-EG45M-UD2H mobo with 1 gig mushkin em2-6400. HDD's are external. Feeding Juli@ with dual Lipofer and using M4-ATX picpsu for 5 and 3.3V. All lines buffered with 10.000uf (Panasonics FM/FC). I have planned to feed all the 12 volt lines (P4+p24) direct analog from the batterie with use of a a low drop voltage regulator. (see attachment). I am building it all together in one desktopcase. Its pretty hard to make an easy switch between listening and charging.

You talk about dirty lines. What do you mean by that? Are the 12, 5 and 3,3 volt seperate lines not internally connected on the mobo?

 

RE: Which capacity batterie for cMP HTPC, posted on June 21, 2009 at 12:47:08
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Hopefully robert won't object to my attempt at an answer---dirty was a term originated by cics to collectively describe power supplies for sata drives, displays, dvd/cd drives, powered mice or peripheral items that 'dirty up' the power supply for major items like cpu/sound cards.

 

RE: Which capacity batterie for cMP HTPC, posted on June 21, 2009 at 12:58:11
Bertel
Audiophile

Posts: 83
Joined: February 12, 2009
 Hans,

looks interesting! Although I would not want to go for the picoPSU since it is just another switching PSU (although a good one) for 3.3V and the main workhorse 5V, so nothing much gained, this certainly is a good solution. But please take care: From the MIC29502BT's datasheet I see that it needs a "voltage difference" of 350-370mV, so when you want to output 11.93V as has been recommended for optimal SQ, the batteries' terminal voltage needs to stay over 11.93V + .37V = 12.3V. Unfortunately that's a figure the datasheets for the batteries' discharge rates usully don't give you clearly. So with the above mentioned 2 x 28Ah or your suggested 50Ah battery, when using them fully charged you surely get decent playtime until they hit the 12.3V limit, but I doubt that this will be 4-5hrs. Unfortunately datesheets don't really help, I'm afraid you've got to try out. For this reason I use batteries with a total of 18V and a THEL regulator that needs a (quite high) minimal voltage difference of 2.5V which I have plenty, so I'm safe for a long time.

As Theo has explained, with "dirty supplies" I meant supplies like the Granites for HDDs, USB, LCD etc., so everything else than P4 and P24. Since you say that HDDs are external, I have understood that you do not want to power them with the same 12V battery source.

And yes, all the separate wires for the respective voltages (12V, 5V and 3.3V) are connected internally on the MoBo, multiple wires are just used to reduce cabling issues like internal resistance and heat and such.

Regards,
Robert

 

Please indications for AMD CPU undervolting, posted on June 21, 2009 at 23:12:00
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 I have an AMD Phenom X3 8650 CPU with an Asus M3A78-T Deluxe motherboard.
Please could someone with an AMP CPU give me some indication with real numbers for CPU speed, FSB and undervolting.
Thanks a lot

 

RE: Please indications for AMD CPU undervolting, posted on June 22, 2009 at 05:37:39
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I think the idea is to underclock, undervolt as much as possible (only limiting factor being stability of operation/ability to boot up) to lower the stress/rfi on your system. I don't know if anyone has come up with stable values for an Amd based system. You could be he first. My advice is to lower each in small increments until you reach issues of instability or cold boot.

 

Single most beneficial tweak on cmp hardware..., posted on June 24, 2009 at 03:08:54
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 ...is lithium ion phosphate iron batteries (LiFePO4 @3.3 v) directly soldered via wires onto juli@ sound card. Batteries are not inexpensive (about $15 each) and can be purchased from Tenergy. Charger was about $12. But the immediate effect was one of added clarity top to bottom, remarkably grain free. Very strong mids and bass. Soundstage got deeper, small details were very precisely revealed etc etc

Alfred (sonics) and hanssatink were the pioneers of this mod. I believe bertel and sondale also use batteries to power the juli@ digital power supply. All these inmates have posted on this mod here in pcaudio. Pls do a search on their names to get more technical info.


But for me @ the cost of about $50 (including shipping from California) this mod is easily the most bang for the buck I have done to cmp hw. To give you some perspective, to me, its equivalent to minlogon plus the effects of a linear power supply on the cpu plus maybe a bit more. It is that good. I really value clarity in the high freqencies and wow do the batteries give it to you in abundance w/o being hard or edgy. At first it almost seems as if you lose upper frequency extension until the real thing comes along---then its OMG. Also I placed my battery tray directly on the rug covered concrete floor and initially the sound was ill defined and boomy until I isolated the battery tray throgh normal audiophile methods then it was a whole new ball game. Yes I have wires all over the place, yes it is cumbersome to keep the batteries charged to 3.2-3.4 volts---all this is a pia but it is definitely worth it.

 

Search functions in cMP (cross posting from cPlay thread), posted on June 24, 2009 at 15:23:44
Frodan
Audiophile

Posts: 43
Joined: May 24, 2008
 In Reply to: RE: SONGWRITER must be used for "Composer" function in cMP posted by cics on June 19, 2009 at 01:54:17

I have a few suggestions on how to implement the songwriter tag in cMP2. I would like other cMP users to add their comments to this post as well. I also have slightly modified the suggestion and edited the original post as well.

- 1. Have an ini setting to turn it on or off, Songwriter=True.

- 2. If it's on, you could have 4 buttons along the bottom for searching:

IF Songwriter=.F.
- Show buttons as they are now.

ELSE Songwriter=.T.
- IF button = GENRE --> After selecting a GENRE offers a list by
- - SONGWRITER, after selecting a SONGWRITER, offers a list by TITLE,
- - then offers a list by PERFORMER.

- ELSE IF button = TITLE --> After selecting a TITLE, offers a list by
- - SONGWRITER, after selecting a SONGWRITER, then offers a list by
- - PERFORMER.

- ELSE IF button = SONGWRITER --> After selecting a SONGWRITER, offers a
- - list by TITLE, after selecting a TITLE, offers a list by PERFORMER.

- ELSE IF button = PERFORMER --> After selecting a PERFORMER, offers a
- - list by SONGWRITER, after selecting a SONGWRITER, offers a list by
- - TITLE.
- ENDIF
ENDIF

BTW I love the fact that with a keyboard one can type the first few letters of a search and cMP goes directly to the first entry that starts with those letters. It makes things a little easier when navigating though a collection of 1000 titles!


Daniel Gauthier

 

Greatness peeking through..., posted on June 27, 2009 at 14:02:52
GStew


 
If you haven't yet, read Theob's post about the impact converting the 3.3v on his Juli@ to battery made on his sound quality. Remember, in his setup, this is just powering the chips that receive the digital signal from the processor via the PCI buss and convert it to SPDIF. He says it made the largest impact of any single change he's made to his setup... and my experience with upgrading power supplies has me understand what he's talking about.

If the cMP2 setup with cPlay makes a PC-based digital playback sound good, upgrading the power supplies takes it to another realm entirely. I had a similar experience to Theob's when I powered my Juli@ from independent linear supplies with high-quality regulators... in my setup, only one other upgrade's sonic differences were in that realm of magnitude and that was when I added a linear supply to the P4 and the linear/hybrid supply with the modified PicoPSU to the ATX24.

As I've been listening to my system over the past several days (after putting the GA-G31M-S2L back from the comparison to the ES2L), I am struck by a couple of things:

1. My collection of music has gotten larger. Strange, huh? But recordings that were dogs before sound ok or sometimes pretty good now. Good recordings sound phenomenal. And really good recordings still sound phenomenal. The range of levels of sound quality has shrunk... the poorer ones are smoother, more detailed, more musically satisfying & involving then they ever were with any of my CD setups.Good ones still sound very good and have improved too, but not to the level of magnitude that the poorer ones have improved. So I now have a bunch of recordings that were 'bottom of the pile' that are now interesting both sonically and musically.

2. I'm much more interested in listening to music than fiddling with hardware or software. I have a BUNCH of things lined up to test:

- More stringent comparison between my linear 'dirty' supplies and the original Granite Digital units to determine if one particular dirty unit makes more difference than the others.
- Adding caps on the Granite Digital units to see what difference that makes.
- Comparing my Ryelands-inspired seriously-braided extension cord to the 'dirty supplies' to the cheap store-bought unit I used before to better access the differences.
- Assessing the impact of the now-broken-in choke filters on the 'dirty supplies' AC and if the inline filter I used before still makes a worthwhile difference with the chokes.
- Further motherboard comparisons... GA-G31M-S2L vs GA-G31M-ES2L vs GA-EG45M-UD2H with additional configuring on the two new boards.
- Further memory comparisons... ValuRAM vs HyperX vs Mushkin.
- cPlay 2.0b27 vs 2.0b26... in my setup, at first listen, I preferred b26 as it gave more PRAT and musical involvement. But I never spent the time to try and optimize the settings on b27.
- SOX. I'm still using SRC and haven't even tried SOX yet.
- Battery on the Juli@ 3.3v line. I did get one of the 3.3v LiFePO4 cells to try here... heck, I have a ton of serious high-current/high-capacity LiPo packs from my model airplane hobby and I really need to try battery power on various rails on this thing. I know good results can be achieved with either battery or AC power... but it'd be nice to reduce the sonic difference I get from the varying quality of the AC line during various times of the day.

Plus I have a bunch of projects lined up around my cMP... Main among them are trying Bertel's switched-over linear supplies using relays and building a custom case. Plus my I2S DAC sounds like it should really be here in the next week or so and I'm getting some different and highly-regarded regulators to try out on the Juli@. Also I want to try comparisons of my custom linear supplies to some of the lab linear supplies others have used... and I'm very interested to hear what hfavandepas finds out about whether the lower-power PicoPSUs do a direct pass-through of the 12v.... this is possibly a good, easy-to-implement improvement.

Some of these will help us understand what's important in a cMP2.... others will help determine what hardware is best to use, especially that some parts are no longer easily available... some have the promise of further catapulting the sound quality of a cMP2 to the another level. I'm a tweak and I should be jumping up to run through all of them!

But right now, I just want to go and listen to my system and discover those recordings that I didn't pay much attention to before because they sounded bad or weren't musically interesting.

Such is the sound of greatness peeking through!

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. Many thanks to all the heros and pioneers in this saga... cics for the concept and all the hard work developing this, Rick Mc for being the pioneer who championed this to me, Ryeland, Bertel, hfavandepas, and Peter Daniel (from the DIYAudio list) for their work in improving the system's power supplies, and abysstw for working out the basic BIOS settings on the GA-EG45M-UD2H. Thanks all, I haven't had this much fun in audio for many, many years.

 

RE: Please indications for AMD CPU undervolting, posted on June 27, 2009 at 14:55:21
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12587
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 bib,

I am going by memory, but I had an AMD, and it ended up around 800-900mhz and around say .8 volts or so, which on mine was the lowest settings I could get from the ASUS board.


Cut to razor sounding violins

 

Current Specs, posted on June 29, 2009 at 14:07:15
Mr Underhill
Audiophile

Posts: 131
Location: Sarf London
Joined: May 17, 2006
 Hi cics,

I'm going to build one of your players. I've downloaded the current docs, which were last updated in 2007.

I found one update thread above.

Could you confirm what current MOBO & CPU you rec?
Still 1GB ram in slot 1?
Still Juli@ Sound card?

Thx,

M

 

RE: Current Specs, posted on June 30, 2009 at 11:26:44
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
  1. cMP 2 PDF's (1.4MB & 2.4MB). Be sure to hit "show all"
  2. The Art of building Computer Transports Version 0.3 Single PDF (4.2MB)
  3. Latest updates & hardware
  4. Latest BIOS Refinements to 3 above.


(and yes, a new document is long overdue given all the changes...)

You can use any soundcard. Juli@ is simple to use and offers excellent value. A fully modded Juli@ gets even better!

Use smallest possible RAM - I use a single 256MB Kingston Valueram.

 

Thx, posted on June 30, 2009 at 12:33:40
Mr Underhill
Audiophile

Posts: 131
Location: Sarf London
Joined: May 17, 2006
 Dear Cics,

Thx, not only for this reply but your ongoing dedication.

I am using a Meridian 596 > Benchmark DAC1, as the Meridian will output 9624, but I'm convinced that it is not passing out the best possible signal - so time to build your transport.

M

 

Not Enough Ram Error, posted on July 3, 2009 at 13:56:10
etiennelemay@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 49
Joined: June 25, 2008
 Hello
I keep getting the "Not Enough Ram Error" while trying to play files with cPlay. I just installed a 256 MB Kingston ValueRAM (had no problem with my 512MB) .

I have only 2 services that are running : Plug And Play and RPC.
There's absolutely nothing else installed on the computer.
In the Windows Task Manager the "Available" physical memory says : 177000.

I'm confused... what else can I do?

Any ideas?

Thanks

Etienne

 

RE: Not Enough Ram Error, posted on July 3, 2009 at 16:48:45
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 when I got that I think I rebooted and it cleared up. try it.

 

RE: Not Enough Ram Error, posted on July 3, 2009 at 16:54:18
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12587
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 I THINK I remember having that. I put the stick in and it happened a couple of times and rebooting fixed it. And the weird thing is that it never did after the initial time.

Very strange but that burning in recommendation might be for real.

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: Not Enough Ram Error, posted on July 3, 2009 at 16:54:44
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Etienne,

I get this problem if I start up the Juli@ Panel and don't close it before I start cMP.

Check to see if you have any applications or processes starting up that aren't absolutely needed. Also, is this a dedicated computer with all the optimizations done, especially the driver and Windows components removals? Having too large of a Windows setup running would also cause this.

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: Not Enough Ram Error, posted on July 3, 2009 at 21:36:50
etiennelemay@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 49
Joined: June 25, 2008
 Thanks for the suggestion,
It is a dedicated computer and I'm sure there's nothing unnecessary running in the background (I made sure the Juli@Pan was not running).
I did all the optimization + removals. After the initial boot, in the Task Manager the PF usage is at 28Mb and there's only 10 processes running.

I also tried rebooting a couple of times, that didin't work either....
I'll try leaving the computer on for a couple of days for burning and see how this works...

thanks

Etienne

 

RE: Not Enough Ram Error, posted on July 3, 2009 at 21:42:03
etiennelemay@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 49
Joined: June 25, 2008
 The only thing different I can think of is that I installed a fresh copy of WinXP SP3 instead of SP2. Are there any other optimizations for SP3 that I didin't know of?

Also, a strange thing, under the "General" tab of "System Properties", it says 220MB of RAM instead of 256MB. May I have a faulty Ram stick?!?

Etienne

 

RE: Please indications for AMD CPU undervolting, posted on July 4, 2009 at 01:05:26
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Thanks DR.

baring in mind that I use the PC for HT as well, for CPU I went down to 960MHz (6x160) at 0.95 voltage. Voltage could go lower - it was 0.9 but I got a BSOD fiddling around around with multi-ch playback. I still need to "sort out" my 2 surr-ch.

 

Not Enough Ram Error (Update), posted on July 4, 2009 at 09:00:44
etiennelemay@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 49
Joined: June 25, 2008
 Hello,
Ok I've done a little bit of research to diagnose my "not enough ram" problem.

Actually, in cPlay it says that I have 158Mb available (so close!).

When I look in "System Properties" only 220Mb shows up. This is probably due to the fact that were using the onboard graphic. I can also see this in the BIOS POST messages : 222MB + 34 Shared Memory. Anybody else can see this behaviour (I'm using the GA-EG45M-UD2H MoBo)?

Anyways, with 220Mb there should be plenty available for cPlay. On system boot, my Windows system takes only ~25Mb (in Task Manager).

I'm 100% sure there's no other process I can disable (Only 2 are running), there's no unnecessary program running in the background. I pretty sure that the burn in process will not "magically" free up 2Mb but I'm willing to try and the system is currently burning in.

Are there anything else I can disable (with Autoruns maybe..?).
My system is a dedicated cMP2 transport.

Thanks again!

Etienne

 

RE: Not Enough Ram Error, posted on July 4, 2009 at 09:05:45
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Etienne,

With the 256Mb stick of ValueRAM, the Bios Post screen shows 259000K available after the RAM test.

Then Task Manager shows the following 10 processes:

csrss.ext - 2,996 K
explorer.exe - 7,544 K
lsass.exe - 340 K
services.exe - 2,096 K
smss.exe - 256K
svchost.exe - 1,932 K
System - 216 K
System Idle Process - 24 K
taskmgr.exe - 2,560 K
winlogon.exe - 1,528 K

Under the Performance tab of Task Manager, I get the following:

Physical Memory
Total 258476
Available 213032
System Cache 51876

If you're seeing less physical RAM than what I show at either Bios Post or in the Task Manager, and a few removals-reinsertions-reboots don't fix it, then I'd say you have faulty RAM and should get an exchange.

The other thing to look at are the sizes of your 10 tasks... of course, I'm still running SP2, not SP3, so yours may not be the same as mine.

I hope this all helps!

Greg in Mississippi

Everything matters!

 

RE: Not Enough Ram Error (Update), posted on July 4, 2009 at 09:12:38
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Etienne,

You say you're using the on-board graphic. Did you do the series of customizations that forces windows to use the processor for video?

Let me check my GA-EG45M-UD2H that's burning in right now.

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: Not Enough Ram Error (Update), posted on July 4, 2009 at 09:32:43
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Ok, on my GA-EG45M-UD2H setup, also with a 256Mb stick of ValueRAM, the Bios Post screen shows 226304K available after the RAM test.

Then Task Manager shows the following 10 processes:

csrss.ext - 2,356 K
explorer.exe - 8,260 K
lsass.exe - 384 K
services.exe - 2,096 K
smss.exe - 356K
svchost.exe - 1,932 K
System - 216 K
System Idle Process - 24 K
taskmgr.exe - 2,660 K
winlogon.exe - 1,528 K

Under the Performance tab of Task Manager, I get the following:

Physical Memory
Total 225516
Available 182028
System Cache 53224

With this, I cannot run CPlay (b25 on this setup, I haven't upgraded it to b26 or b27 yet) outside of cMP, but it does run inside of cMP. Are you trying cPlay inside of or outside of cMP?

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. BTW, cPlay under cMP diagnostics show 'Play starts after RAM load (available 57Mb, system 220MB).
Everything matters!

 

RE: Not Enough Ram Error (Update), posted on July 4, 2009 at 09:50:35
etiennelemay@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 49
Joined: June 25, 2008
 Ok thanks,
This looks more like my results.

You have Available 182028
And I have more like 177000

I'll go into deeper comparison later today.

BTW are you using BIOS rev F2 or F3?

Thanks for your help.

Etienne

 

RE: Not Enough Ram Error (Update), posted on July 4, 2009 at 09:56:30
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Etienne,

You didn't say whether you couldn't get cPlay to load just under Windows or under cMP too. Which?

I'll check my BIOS revision and if I get the 'shared memory' message later this afternoon... with the highly-configured BIOS settings and my poorest processor (poorest in terms of how low it can be underclocked), I have to do a BIOS reset each time I reboot this Mobo. I figured I won't be using this processor when I put it in to listen and it may work ok with one of my other processors, so I haven't tried debugging it yet. But to check these for you, I have to do a BIOS reset and then restore the configured BIOS version... and I need to do some real work before I go and do this again.

More later!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: Not Enough Ram Error (Update), posted on July 4, 2009 at 13:05:42
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Etienne,

I did a reboot of my GA-EG45M-UD2H and yes, it does also show the 32MB message and is using Bios version 3.

Let us know how you're getting along with this.

Later!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: Not Enough Ram Error (Update), posted on July 4, 2009 at 21:32:03
etiennelemay


 
Greg,
Again, thanks for your help.

I compared your processes in task manager to mine and all of them were about the same size (mine were only few Ks bigger than yours (I suspect SP3 for this))... except for svchost.exe which was twice the size (mine was 3,704k).
I'll look more into that tomorrow.

By the way, I can't get cPlay to load while in cMP so I imagine I won't be able to load them via XP.

I did actually found a way to make it work for now: I had to kill the ciscRemote process (3096k in Process Explorer) before loading files into cPlay. The good news with this technique is that it tells me that i'm really few MB short of being able to load correctly the files.

I'm looking for the magic tweak that will free 2 MB of RAM .... or maybe a new MoBo rev. that will not lock up 34MB of "Shared Memory".

Thanks

Etienne

 

The M Word, posted on July 6, 2009 at 21:18:12
Mr Underhill
Audiophile

Posts: 131
Location: Sarf London
Joined: May 17, 2006
 Dear Cics,

Looking up the cost of the HD160XT I found it was 2/3rds of the way to a Mac-Mini, and felt it would be daft to not at least seriously consider it.

I posted threads on two different sites:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2067843&tstart=15

and

http://www.123macmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23790

To which I got a total number of replies of 0, nice round number.

Maybe folks who buy the MM just don't want to hack it.

This machine does bundle a lot of functionality into a small box. Did / have you considered it? Thoughts?

Thx,

M

 

Switched Mode PSU, posted on July 6, 2009 at 21:35:35
Mr Underhill
Audiophile

Posts: 131
Location: Sarf London
Joined: May 17, 2006
 Many HiFi companies have an aversion to SMPS, stating that they adversely effect the produced sound quality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched-mode_power_supply

Over the last couple of years a number have started producing components, notably Naim, having claimed to have 'solved' inherent issues. I thought I'd do a bit of digging and found:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-100095.html

One poster claims that a standard mobo will contain four built in SMPS - which appears to make this line of enquiry moot.

Any other thoughts / experiences?

M

 

read docs, read here. nt, posted on July 7, 2009 at 03:52:05
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 *

 

Passive cooling for E7300, posted on July 7, 2009 at 08:25:06
DeDe


 
Could I solicit your thoughts and experience in connection with passive cooling for the E7300 CPU on a Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L mother board. The Thermalright SI-128 originally suggested by Cics is discontinued. I'd welcome some recommendations for other passive coolers which have been found to work okay.

 

I have very good power cord on my cmp2 pc...but..., posted on July 7, 2009 at 09:10:52
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 ...I have a separate linear power supply on my cpu (p4), I have hd's on gd's and my juli@ card digital ps on batteries. Since I am running digital out to my Benchmark what is drawing power on my pc from my antec? If nothing substantive I will move my 'good power cord' onto my cpu linear ps.

BTW I put some black goo-ey damping compound on my juli@ card clock chip---nice sq improvement. Thanks to gstew for this one.

 

RE: Thanks everyone, one more question., posted on July 7, 2009 at 13:33:39
abysstw


 
Might want to try out the Winchip DDR2 512MB RAM rated at 1200MHz CL5. I think it sounds noticeably better than my Team DDR2 512MB CL3 800MHz, and I favor it over ValueRAM after the b27 release.

 

RE: Thanks everyone, one more question., posted on July 7, 2009 at 14:17:35
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Let me undestand you substituted the Winchip DDR2 512MB RAM rated at 1200MHz CL5 for your Team and Value ram and it clearly was the winner. Is that right? Did you leave all your bios voltage settings same? How did it sound better? Please say more.

 

RE: Passive cooling for E7300, posted on July 7, 2009 at 14:24:10
Frodan
Audiophile

Posts: 43
Joined: May 24, 2008
 I use the SilverStone Nitrogon cooler without the fan with an E7200 cpu and it works great.
Daniel Gauthier

 

RE: The M Word, posted on July 7, 2009 at 17:46:07
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Windows continues to dominate the market and will yield excellent results if setup correctly. If one compares Windows to Mac straight out of the box, Mac is likely to give better results. Same applies to Linux.

NT kernel as used in XP is excellent but unfortunately the amazing amount of bloat added requires attention. Fortunately this can be corrected as we do here (and more). The level of changes and with cMP, the need for a real time OS is removed.

A key disadvantage to Mac is the hardware platform - this is not as flexible, e.g. BIOS. There's a workaround to this by using Hackintosh.

 

cPlay -alternative to ASIO output ?, posted on July 8, 2009 at 01:36:45
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 is there anyway that cPlay can output kernel streaming or output in any alternative mode?

in my current setup, cPlay is connected to JACK audio which forwards the signal to thuneau´s allocator and then via ASIO to the lynx two B soundcard.
this constellation works fine, but unfortunately there is no way to activate the JACK when running cMP.

any ideas are highly appreciated !
Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: Passive cooling for E7300, posted on July 8, 2009 at 03:23:32
nagual19
Audiophile

Posts: 37
Location: Vienna
Joined: July 4, 2003
 I use the Thermalright AXP-140 , it seems that it is the successor to the Thermalright SI-128... It is recommended for HTPC use by Thermalright itself. I have E7300 @ 1.050Mhz and with 0,9 Voltage and have temps @ 40°Celsius

Look here
http://www.thermalright.com/new_a_page/product_page/cpu/axp140/product_cpu_axp140.html

 

Jack ASIO driver must be used in your x-over setup, posted on July 8, 2009 at 08:34:43
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Challenge is getting Jack and Allocator running in cMP. For now keep both lsass and svchost suspends to "No".

After cMP starts, you'll need to manually start Jack and Allocator before cPlay. Post your .bat or shell scripts that you're currently using - this will give me an idea of how to get it working in cMP.

 

RE: Passive cooling for E7300, posted on July 8, 2009 at 11:17:04
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 I recently bought the SI-128 here.

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: Jack ASIO driver must be used in your x-over setup, posted on July 8, 2009 at 16:55:55
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 hey cics

thanks very much for your reply.
you´re absolutely right : it is a challenge to get that jack / allocator thing working in cMP !
the main issue is is that jack needs a signal from cPlay to make the connection, otherwise it cannot "see" it.

the .bat file that connects it looks like this (ignore the german command typo) :

Option Explicit
Dim WshShell
Set WshShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")



WshShell.Run """C:\Programme\Jack v1.90\jackstart""",1,False

WScript.Sleep 5000

WshShell.Run """C:\Programme\cics Play\cicsPlay.exe"" C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\ego\Eigene Dateien\adele - 19.cue",1,False

WScript.Sleep 1000

WshShell.Run """C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\ego\Desktop\Allocator1.0.15\Allocator.exe""",1,False

WScript.Sleep 1000

WshShell.Run """C:\Programme\Jack v1.90\Connect""",1,False
Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: Jack ASIO driver must be used in your x-over setup, posted on July 8, 2009 at 19:12:33
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Try the following:

Create "jack.bat" file in your c:\ root drive (c:\jack.bat) and copy the following commands into it:


@echo off
start /realtime c:\progra~1\jackv1~1.90\jackstart
ping -n 6 127.0.0.1 > nul
start /realtime c:\progra~1\cicspl~1\cicsPlay.exe %1
ping -n 2 127.0.0.1 > nul
start /realtime c:\dokume~1\desktop\alloca~1.15\Allocator.exe
ping -n 2 127.0.0.1 > nul
start /b /realtime C:\progra~1\jackv1~1.90\connect


The "ping" command emulates sleep. I'm guessing the dos short name that is used in your pc. To test this works, from explorer, right-click on a cue sheet and select "open with" where you can then select "c:\jack.bat". If shortnames are not correct, in a command prompt, use "dir /x" command to list the files/folders together with shortnames which you can use to edit above.

Change CUE_PLAYER directive in "cicsMemoryPlayer.pth" as follows:

CUE_PLAYER #N "c:\jack.bat" %C

Note: if you change #N with #H the command window is hidden.

Test in cMP as follows:

  1. Set lsass and svchost to suspend "No"
  2. Set Optimise to "Player"
  3. Play any cue sheet
  4. To play another, you must manually stop & exit Jack and Allocater before staring next selection (we can automate this later)

 

Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions., posted on July 19, 2009 at 09:01:53
aljordan
Audiophile

Posts: 1252
Location: Southern Maine
Joined: November 4, 2003
 Hi,

I finally put together a CMP-like machine the other day. I used hardware that I had on hand; decent stuff but not the same as recommended here. I used an Asus P5W DH Deluxe motherboard, an Intel E6600 CPU, Corsair RAM, Corsair 520HX power supply, and a good case. The machine has no internal discs and uses a separately powered external SATA drive to hold the operating systems. I actually put three different operating systems on this disc so that I could eventually compare CMP on XP to optimized Linux and Vista configurations. There is also a partition for another operating system that is not yet being used.

I followed all of the OS recommendations except I didn't shutdown networking because my music library lives elsewhere on the network. (I know, string me up and tar and feather me, but for the life of me I can't figure out why running networking would be worse than running extra local discs, a monitor, a keyboard, and a wireless mouse.) I followed bios recommendations where I could find similarities with the bios on my motherboard.

I am using the box headless - no monitor, mouse, nor keyboard, which brings up a slight issue I'll explain later. I have two different DAC solutions I am trying with it, an internal Lynx 2B via the Lynx drivers, and a Wavelength Cosecant v3 USB DAC via ASIO4All. I put the Lynx card in so I could try upsampling, but after a brief comparison I am listening mostly via the USB DAC.

I am trying to get the headless system to not need to run VNC server. I can do this because I made a network capable version of my CPlayListEditor program. I can run a server instance on the CMP box, and run a client version on any other computer in the house. The client version gets the libraries from the server, and can build playlists from those libraries, and then sends the playlists to the instance running on the CMP box which then launches CPlay with the playlist loaded. I am able to control CPlay on the CMP box via the network client of my program because I added pause, next and previous buttons to my application, which sends messages to the server instance which then sends the command on to CPlay.

While I haven't yet directly compared this solution to my battery Fit-PC Slim running an optimized version of Linux, I can say that I am thus far very impressed with the sound quality. It is the best I've achieved out of a full sized PC.

So, here are my issues and questions.

1) The "Don't use welcome screen" recommendation keeps me from being totally headless and running VNC server because it forces a password dialog box on boot-up. I only have one account on this machine, so leaving 'use welcome screen' enabled allows the computer to boot up directly into that account without displaying the welcome screen. I see a couple of ways around it but don't know enough about CMP to make an informed decision:

* I could boot directly into XP mode with the welcome screen enabled, then automatically start my CPlaylist Editor application and automatically start CMP mode. If I start CMP mode after boot-up with welcome screen enabled, will there still be the lockup problem?

This brings up two other questions...
- Is there any in CMP mode, other than behavioral differences, when CMP mode is started from XP mode as compared to when CMP mode is booted into directly? I am only interested in technical differences that might affect sound quality.

- When already in CMP mode, is there any difference in threading when the CMP explorer (or whatever its called) starts CPlay as compared to my application starting CPlay, or will CPlay start optimized to the CMP settings no matter how it is started when in CMP mode?

* My second option would be to boot directly into CMP mode, but I would need a way to do this that would not bring up the password dialog box when the welcome screen is disabled. Is there any manner to do this? This would also require a way to automatically start my CPlayList Editor application within CMP mode. Is there some batch file that runs automatically when CMP mode is started that I could edit to start my application?

Thanks in advance for any information related to these questions.

Alan

 

RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions., posted on July 19, 2009 at 09:36:42
seger
 Automatic Logon
1. Run: control userpasswords2
2. Highlight your user name in the list
3. Clear the "Users must enter a user name and password to use this computer" check box, and then click Apply.
4. In the Automatically Log On window do not type a password. Click OK.
5. Click OK to close the User Accounts window.
6. Restart Computer.

Very interested in your upcoming comparisons.

 

RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions., posted on July 19, 2009 at 10:13:17
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 As to one of your questions: You can run cPlay while in cMP mode by selecting "explore" and then starting cPlay from its folder under Program Files. When you do this cPlay is not completely optimized via cMP though it benefits generally from cMP mode.

So, I believe you will need to get your program to get cMP to pass along your selection as it starts cPlay. If you find a way to do this then you could also included a way to have the selection's samplerate determine the playback rate in cPlay to be an even multiple rather than a fixed preselected rate and thus sound its best re this selection. One, but probably not the most efficient, way would be to have a routine that decides to best playback rate then changes the cPlay ini file to specify that rate so that when cMP calls cPlay it will use this amended ini.

 

RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions., posted on July 19, 2009 at 11:03:14
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Ethernet connection has OS and device overheads but your headless setup will give benefits - its a tradeoff. cPlay will RAM load data before playback so Network streaming is not an issue.

  1. Welcome Screen.
    You should implement the changes. This will force a password dialog. Minlogon optimisation removes this dialog (as you now logon as System Default). Benefits of Minlogon are huge and yes it will work with Networking enabled. Seger has a easier approach which you should look into.

  2. cMP Mode.
    This results in least OS bloat and is the best way to run cPlay (Optimise must be "Critical"). With your Lynx, you can also Suspend both lsass and svchost. cMP optimises use of CPU Cores. Running from Explore is a bad idea (this locks all threads to CPU0 and doesn't adjust priority).

  3. Way Forward.
    Start directly into cMP Mode (no logon/password dialog with Minlogon). In cMP, set "Process Explorer" or "Task Manager" as startup but instead run your Network app (CPlayList Editor?). See cicsMemoryPlayer.pth file for details. If CPlayList Editor can trigger starting cPlay by cMP then you have gained all benefits. Also remove cicsRemote.exe from cMP installation folder (this prevents cMP from running it).


Good start!

 

RE: Thanks Seger, posted on July 19, 2009 at 12:12:46
aljordan
Audiophile

Posts: 1252
Location: Southern Maine
Joined: November 4, 2003
 Hi Seger,

Thanks, this works great. It may be a bit before I get around to comparisons because I'll want to listen to this long enough to get to a feel for it, but I'll let you as they happen.

Alan

 

RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions., posted on July 19, 2009 at 13:59:51
aljordan
Audiophile

Posts: 1252
Location: Southern Maine
Joined: November 4, 2003
 Hi cics,

Seger's instructions worked well regarding removing the password prompt. I am running XP SP3. Is there a link which describes the benefits of using minlogon? If not, what are the benefits?

I can now boot directly into CMP critical mode, with CPlayListEditor starting automatically as you have suggested, through editing the cicsMemoryPlayer.pth file and setting startup to Process Explorer. Interestingly, the only manner I could get CPlayListEditor to start at startup was to create a batch file to start it. Referencing the command directly in cicsMemoryPlayer.pth doesn't work. I also tried hiding the command prompt that comes up from the batch file by using #H, but that keeps the batch file from being executed. Also, the cicsMemoryPlayer.pth file that came with the CMP software doesn't have a TaskManager entry in it. Do I have the correct version of the software?

Thanks very much. Now I can use a headless CMP without running any sort of VNC server. I need to make a couple more tweaks to the software (add phase, fast forward and rewind buttons), and make the usability a little more self explanatory. After that I'll make it available if anyone else cares about a headless CMP.

Alan

 

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