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Raspberry Pi 4 vs. 3B+ first impression

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Posted on September 8, 2020 at 15:32:38
zacster
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I finally made it to MicroCenter when the store wasn't packed and bought a 4gb 4, 2x16gb micro SD cards and what I thought was a USB-A to USB-C cable. The cable turned out to be micro-USB but I pulled it from the USB-C rack. Anyway, I found an adapter for my original Pi 3a power supply and am using that to power it. I downloaded the latest Volumio image, installed everything in about 15 minutes total and was up and running. Using my Topping E30 as the DAC.

It does seem to give a darker background. My first track was Hoff Ensemble's Polarity, a freebie track in DSD256 that I have that I think is the best sounding track in my meager local collection. Next up was "Radio One" by Airelle Besson on Qobuz in 24/44.1. This is the track I've used to hear the minute differences when I make changes. When I was switching power supplies around it was this track that convinced me to get rid of the iFi iPower. Everything comes from a very quiet background. With the Pi4 it was very quiet.

Now, if you were to ask me if the 3B+ were noisier I'd have to say maybe not. I can't tell. I'd have to do a rapid A/B to even hear it is my guess. In any case for the money the 4 is staying in the system and I'll use the 3B+ elsewhere, except I'm running out of places! Oh wait, I'm not out of kids! My daughter has a small system and I just bought her a USB DAC for her car, like the AQ Dragonfly but not, the ExtremPro X1. She could plug that in and go wireless. I love how cheap this stuff is getting.

Right now I've switched back to classic rock, "(Dont Fear) the Reaper". Next up is "Candle in the Wind", both in 24/96 on Qobuz.

I can still remember my first DVD-A and how great it sounded and how bad the music was in 24/96 surround.

 

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RE: Raspberry Pi 4 vs. 3B+ first impression, posted on September 8, 2020 at 18:49:43
AbeCollins
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What interface are you using on each Raspberry Pi to drive the DAC ?

- SPDIF ouput to DAC ?

- USB straight to DAC ?

Slight differences can be attributed to using a different DAC input if that's what you're doing. The other variable is the USB output on the Raspberry Pi if that's what you're using in each case. The weak link in the Pi3 is its USB circuitry while USB on the Pi4 is significantly improved.





 

RE: Raspberry Pi 4 vs. 3B+ first impression, posted on September 8, 2020 at 20:46:15
zacster
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I'm using USB for both the 3 and the 4. That's the reason for the 4 in the first place, the usb is supposed to be cleaner. I would say that it is but not a night and day difference. I would have to a/b them but that requires switching the input cable to the DAC and wouldn't be fast enough to hear them side by side. I'll give it a try though.

If I can't hear a difference the 4 will become something else other than a streamer. I tried using the 3 as a generic browser but it was slow. Maybe I'll try the 4 as one. I bought two micro sd cards so I can play with it

 

RE: Raspberry Pi 4 vs. 3B+ first impression, posted on September 9, 2020 at 00:04:10
Goober58
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I recently did something similar. Using the RPi running Raspian without server sw enabled and using VLC the 3 and the 4 were both really good. However attempting to run headless, enabling the server sw, ruined the RPi 3 as a usb device. Noisy.

The first OS (after Raspian) on the RPi 4 was Volumio and it sounded bad. Maybe worse than the RPi3 3 using Raspian with server sw enabled. I was told Volumio had issues with the RPi 4 and maybe USB and needed an update.

Truthfully I preferred the RP3 over the RP4 running with monitor and keyboard attached (and server sw disabled) but the whole point was to get the thing headless. The Moode SW with the RP4 did the trick - and it does it very well.

FWIW the RPi 3 USB running headless, or Volumio on the RPi 4 USB both sounded broken in comparison the Moode on the RPi4 or either PI USB running Rasbian with server sw disabled.

All of the above observations were repeated several times and only apply to USB operation.

The specific drivers that needed to be removed were vnc4server, tightvncserver and xrdp to improve Raspian running on the RPi3 without server.

The RPi 4 using Moode software should sound very very good. Maybe your recent version Volumio is fixed and has corrected the issues I heard with the RPi3 or you are comparing the two bad apples I discovered. I can't tell from here.

 

RE: Raspberry Pi 4 vs. 3B+ first impression, posted on September 9, 2020 at 05:18:18
zacster
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I'll give MoOde a try, I haven't tried that yet. I use the RPi with Volumio as an endpoint for UPnP/DLNA, I don't have a NAS or use the radio features. My server is the iMac I'm currently typing on running Audirvana with Qobuz as my main music source. There is no wire to the RPi, just power in, usually from a battery but I screwed up the adapter purchase, and USB out to the Topping E30. I think that NOT having the wired ethernet in the Pi alleviates the issue on the 3 with the USB and Ethernet sharing the bus, and that is what the 4 fixed too, the shared bus.

This is all theoretical though, what matters is what combination sounds the best. From my experience though the power supply is what matters the most, and then it is the PS to the DAC more than to the Pi. The nice thing is that all of this is cheap to experiment with until you find the combo that sounds best to you!

 

RE: Raspberry Pi 4 vs. 3B+ first impression, posted on September 9, 2020 at 06:16:41
E-Stat
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From my experience though the power supply is what matters the most, and then it is the PS to the DAC more than to the Pi.

Amen!

 

Not being a Codec Kid, and not a DIY guy, I just opted for the Audiolab 6000N. At some point,, posted on September 9, 2020 at 07:38:45
tinear
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when I have the time, the RPI--- the Everyman aspect--- might lure. I also have a kid that could be an outlet for the extra one, though she and her friends find vinyl and CD the most interesting (yeah, MP3 through earbuds, too...).

After "The Reaper...", you should give a listen to, "Possum Kingdom," by the undeservedly neglected Texas group, The Toadies. The video and music are as catch and creepy as one would want.

 

RE: Not being a Codec Kid, and not a DIY guy, I just opted for the Audiolab 6000N. At some point,, posted on September 9, 2020 at 10:23:30
zacster
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DIY involves a soldering iron or a table saw, there's really not much to DIY here. All you do is download a file and burn it to a micro SD (camera) card. My iMac, TV and camera all have a slot for SD, but not every computer does so you may need a USB adapter. You then plug the SD into the RPi, give it power and plug in a USB DAC. Done. It'll step you through the setup on first run, which is mostly logging into your wifi. It took 15 minutes. You'll spend as much time installing any new component into your system.

I'm not into creepy music, The Reaper is such a Classic Rock staple that it just happened to come up.

I've weaned my kids away from MP3 by overriding their streaming of music from their phones with hi-res versions. That's allowed by the Raspberry Pi setups I have. They're always surprised by how much better they sound in hi-res. I even put a hi-res DAC into my car and they are surprised by how good the existing Honda system sounds with it.

 

+1 "DIY involves a soldering iron or a table saw..", posted on September 9, 2020 at 11:54:37
AbeCollins
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I shake my head when people say they "built a PC". No, they stuffed a motherboard into a case ;-)



 

RE: +1 "DIY involves a soldering iron or a table saw..", posted on September 9, 2020 at 12:40:01
zacster
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Yea, this isn't much harder than installing an app on your phone. I've spent more time getting my Firestick to work than my RPi.

 

Sit down for this: I've never, posted on September 9, 2020 at 12:59:30
tinear
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used either a soldering iron or a table saw. "Possum Kingdom" isn't "I can't sleep!" creepy, but it does have one of the catchiest set of hooks you've ever heard. The bass line after the break is unforgettable, as is the bassist's nonchalance.

 

RE: Sit down for this: I've never, posted on September 9, 2020 at 13:53:52
zacster
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I'll give it a listen, it's queued up to play next, after Janis.

 

If you need some help with an Rpi, I can help ..............., posted on September 9, 2020 at 14:07:04
Cut-Throat
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It's hardly what I would call a DIY project.... Load a OS to card, and then start setting parameters on a Software program.. I have set people up a couple years ago, and they just play music. Figure on a evening or two, with phone support from me.....



 

RE: If you need some help with an Rpi, I can help ..............., posted on September 11, 2020 at 10:59:19
Tromatic
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Do you have a guide that you have written? Sorry if I have missed it, if so. If not, would you consider writing one? Step-by-step start to finish for the Luddite?
Thanks!

 

RE: If you need some help with an Rpi, I can help ..............., posted on September 11, 2020 at 11:12:36
Cut-Throat
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There is a guide for PiCoreplayer here:

https://www.picoreplayer.org/main_getting_started.shtml

-- Although since there are so many configurations for the Rpi consisting of various Top Hats, DACs etc - streaming software etc.... A complete guide is almost impossible... And generally people do not know how to follow directions exactly. So people can start with this guide and then can ask specific questions. I bail them out over the phone initially... Once they get a working Rpi with software, they usually have no trouble configuring another.



 

RE: If you need some help with an Rpi, I can help ..............., posted on September 11, 2020 at 11:46:11
Tromatic
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I have one working as an ad-blocker, so I do have a little knowledge. I might try using that.
Thanks!

 

RE: If you need some help with an Rpi, I can help ..............., posted on September 11, 2020 at 11:49:16
Cut-Throat
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Generally, I can get a complete neophyte up and running in an hour on the phone.



 

RE: If you need some help with an Rpi, I can help ..............., posted on September 11, 2020 at 12:37:09
Tromatic
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Thanks, I may give it a try this weekend barring any more natural disaster.

 

Just relax and don't be in a hurry ....................., posted on September 11, 2020 at 13:17:35
Cut-Throat
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And if you get in a jam, send me a PM and we'll connect and get it going.. It's really not the difficult, but you are installing a very powerful piece of software and the parameters need to be set correctly for what you are configuring. Top Hat - DAC etc. Rpi Model # etc.

Make sure you have an Ethernet Connection close to your stereo initially. You can get it going wireless after that if you desire.

Create a mysqueezebox.com account, if you don't have one.
Create a tunein Radio account if you don't have one of those either.



 

Very kind. But knowledgeable guys like you have NO idea how, posted on September 11, 2020 at 17:43:59
tinear
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it is for the truly clueless, electronically. I went with the Audiolab 6000N. Took me 8 or 9 hours to figure it all out with many screw ups along the way configuring this and that and trying to get the apps synched. I really, really appreciate the offer.

BTW, it was worth all the hassle. Listening to Alfred Brendel and it's glorious. An instance of where the hype is correct, or even understated. Earlier, listened to some Coltrane and it was almost scarily clear.

 

RE: Just relax and don't be in a hurry ....................., posted on September 11, 2020 at 18:33:19
Tromatic
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Doh! I need the hat yet. Forehead slap.

 

RE: Just relax and don't be in a hurry ....................., posted on September 11, 2020 at 19:29:51
Cut-Throat
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Depends on what you want to do?



 

RE: Very kind. But knowledgeable guys like you have NO idea how, posted on September 11, 2020 at 20:01:32
zacster
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But it doesn't take that long to set up the RPi. It took me half an hour the first time with absolutely no knowledge, and that half hour included opening the box from Amazon. I will admit that I looked up the instructions while waiting for the package and had the OS file downloaded on my Mac. The Pi itself is so easy, just write the OS to a micro SD card from the Mac, stick it into the slot on the Pi, plug the Pi into your router with a standard ethernet cable and power it up. You go to the default web address on your browser and it'll walk you through the rest of the setup, including attaching to your wifi. At least Volumio is that easy, maybe the other software isn't, but still not hard.

You don't need to know Linux or any esoteric software if all you want is Volumio.

 

RE: Very kind. But knowledgeable guys like you have NO idea how, posted on September 12, 2020 at 06:36:29
Cut-Throat
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Tin, there is no electronics involved at all. It basically involves downloading some software, and plugging in the Rpi and then setting up some parameters. (Which I can walk you though it all)... Maybe an hour or so on the phone...

No need to be intimidated. - You'll get the hang of it.



 

Duly noted for future. I think Volumio, for this application, takes a, posted on September 12, 2020 at 10:02:39
tinear
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subscription?

 

For Qobuz, Volumio needs a yearly Subscription ................., posted on September 12, 2020 at 11:23:30
Cut-Throat
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Which is why I almost never recommend Volumio. With PiCorePlayer, there is no extra Subscription Fee for any Streaming Service.



 

I'll add..., posted on September 12, 2020 at 12:34:35
E-Stat
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Clearly the most complex and time consuming part of my installation was assembling and trimming the multi-stack Zebra case.

Here's a video of using a shorter case. I needed the "Tall HAT" version to support an Allo DigiOne.








View YouTube Video

 

RE: For Qobuz, Volumio needs a yearly Subscription ................., posted on September 12, 2020 at 13:18:07
zacster
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I had already paid for Audirvana months before and use that on my mac and stream Qobuz to Volumio on the Pi over UPnP. At the time only Tidal was available and the only way to get MQA was to use Audirvana to stream to the Pi. I subscribed to Qobuz when it became available and after a while realized I never used Tidal anymore so I gave it up. You really only need one service.

 

RE: For Qobuz, Volumio needs a yearly Subscription ................., posted on September 12, 2020 at 13:20:44
Cut-Throat
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Glad this worked for you but I certainly would not recommend this solution to a newbie that wanted to stream Qobuz.



 

What about a 'oldbe' who has Audirvana?, posted on September 12, 2020 at 17:15:19
Ivan303
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The ability to stream Audirvana to a Pi using WiFi and DLNA would be great if I could figure out how to do it.

Currently happy with MPD/DLNA mode in the MicroRendu as a way of getting Audirvana from my Mac Mini to my DAC.

Adding the Pi with WiFi allows use in areas without ethernet.


First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

If you buy your case from C4labs on amazon, posted on September 12, 2020 at 21:23:25
raingerz
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--I believe that is their name--they will assemble the case for you if you send in the RPi4 board. They didn't charge me a penny to do it.

 

I'm liking the Smraza case better than C4labs Zebra case, posted on September 12, 2020 at 22:07:20
AbeCollins
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The Smraza acrylic case is similar to the C4labs Zebra case but it's much easier to assemble and it's cheaper.
The FLIRC case is probably the simplest of them all and it's passive - no fan.


Left: FLIRC Case || Right: Smraza Case




 

RE: What about a 'oldbe' who has Audirvana?, posted on September 13, 2020 at 07:44:03
zacster
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If you set up a Pi with Volumio, Audirvana will immediately recognize it as a DLNA endpoint and allow you to select it. As you can see I'm streaming 24/88.2 to the Pi at the moment.

 

Great..., posted on September 13, 2020 at 16:08:44
Ivan303
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I have uRendu doing that duty so I see no reason I can't get the Pi to do the same.

Audirvana also sees my dCS Network Bridge as a DLNA device but I haven't tried to stream Audirvana through it as yet.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: Great..., posted on September 13, 2020 at 17:47:20
zacster
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And as you can see in the pic my Firestick shows up too.

 

Does everything that shows up actually work?, posted on September 13, 2020 at 18:20:05
Ivan303
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if it plays music, of course.

I've gotten Audirvana to play through a Sony soundbar on the local ethernet so far.

And Audirvana sees the dCS Network Bridge as a UPnP device and plays trough it.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: Does everything that shows up actually work?, posted on September 13, 2020 at 20:25:12
zacster
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So far everything has played. I have 3 RPi's around the house but only that one was active when I took the screen shot. I'll have to check the kitchen setup though now that I see that it didn't show up. It probably just needs a reboot. We were moving the routers around and it probably just disconnected.

One thing I wanted to try is to get the Firestick to stream to the Raspberry Pi and Volumio. This way I could unplug the TV from the HT receiver. The problem would probably be latency even if it did work. It's gotta sync with the video. When I stream from Qobuz I have no idea how long it really takes for the music to start, nor do I care as long as it plays. The look ahead takes care of the next track in the queue so gapless playback happens. I've watched it happen during playback through Activity Monitor on the Mac. When you change the song midway through it sends the processors into a tizzy to catch up again. Luckily a quad core iMac is plenty of processor to do that and also to upsample or convert to DSD on the fly, all while doing whatever else you are doing.

 

RE: Raspberry Pi 4 vs. 3B+ first impression, posted on September 14, 2020 at 20:03:19
zacster
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So a quick update. I finally got a USB-A to USB-C cable so I could power the Pi from the battery and it really sounds better that way. The DAC was already powered by the same battery. The prior method was the Pi was powered by a the 3amp switcher that came with the Pi 3B. I just happened to have an adapter for that. Between USB-A, micro USB, USB-C and barrel connectors there sure are a lot of different ways to supply 5v.

The other thing is I also bought a heat sink/fan case for it from MazerPi. I was worried about the fan drawing too much battery power but it doesn't, and also making noise, but I had to put my ear up to it to even hear it. It's a much nicer case than the plastic ones I had for my 3Bs. It is a real heat sink.

 

RE: Raspberry Pi 4 vs. 3B+ first impression, posted on September 17, 2020 at 07:50:35
AbeCollins
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Nice case. I looked it up on Amazon. I run my fan off the 3.3v posts and it can't be heard unless you stick your ear into it!

I have the Smraza acrylic case which looks like the C4Labs Zebra case but it's so much easier to assemble. My other Pi4 is in the popular passively cooled FLIRC case. While the fan cases run much cooler the reality is, the Pi4 is still well within its temperature spec with a good passive case.

What capacity (Watt-Hours) is the battery powering your Pi4?

These USB Meters come in handy for measuring current draw. Mine is standard USB but I need one for USB-C. Both types can be found on Amazon.





 

RE: Raspberry Pi 4 vs. 3B+ first impression, posted on September 17, 2020 at 09:11:52
zacster
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My Anker batteries are the 13000mah version. It appears to be 4 18650 batteries just from the look of it. I have two, one gets used as a phone charger and is swapped with the other that is always charging when the RPi is switched off. There haven't been any conflicts yet where someone needs the charger for the phone when I'm using it to listen and the other is completely dead. They charge an iPhone pretty quickly too.

At this point I haven't run the battery down during use so I doubt the fans are drawing much current.

 

Is this the same case you have ?, posted on September 18, 2020 at 12:59:00
Cut-Throat
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Looks similar, but a different name ......



 

RE: Is this the same case you have ?, posted on September 18, 2020 at 19:51:06
zacster
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No. Mine is all aluminum finned heat sink with dual fans.

 

Yes, I was inquiring about Abe's Case ....................nt, posted on September 19, 2020 at 04:54:30
Cut-Throat
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nt



 

RE: Is this the same case you have ?, posted on September 19, 2020 at 04:59:47
Posts: 55
Location: new hampshire
Joined: May 25, 2004
hello,
trying to get pcp running on my rpi4. do i load it on a different sd card than the one the rpi os is on? tried it on a different sd card and i can't get it to setup. i see it in the rpi downloads but it won't open. used pcp on a pi 3b w/o any problems. help.
thank you,
drmike

 

Start a new thread ... This one is pretty buried...., posted on September 19, 2020 at 05:10:13
Cut-Throat
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No, you use the same SD Card - All of the Software for PcP will be loaded.... Just download the standard version from here --

https://www.picoreplayer.org/main_downloads.shtml

Use Balena Etcher to burn the Card. From Here

- https://www.balena.io/etcher/

And Relax.




 

RE: Start a new thread ... This one is pretty buried...., posted on September 19, 2020 at 12:08:14
Posts: 55
Location: new hampshire
Joined: May 25, 2004
loaded pcp, it opens but won't go any further. stops at
: tc@piCorePlayer-$

 

RE: Start a new thread ... This one is pretty buried...., posted on September 19, 2020 at 12:38:24
Cut-Throat
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I just downloaded it and burned it with Etcher and it worked perfectly for me.
PM me your phone # and I'll call you .............



 

One last thing to say, posted on September 19, 2020 at 15:48:25
zacster
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My battery did run out after being on for about 6 hours. That's not nearly as much as it used to last. I disconnected the fans as they probably aren't needed anyway for audio use of the Pi4. I'll see how long it lasts without the fans. 6 hours is more than I'd usually have it on but sometimes I just do. Having the second battery makes it even less critical.

 

RE: One last thing to say, posted on September 25, 2020 at 09:41:19
Posts: 55
Location: new hampshire
Joined: May 25, 2004
can i run a w4s dac2 dsdse off the rpi 4 if the allo boss dac is still connected to the rpi? what would the sqeeze light settings be?
thanks,
drmike

 

RE: One last thing to say, posted on September 26, 2020 at 09:03:02
zacster
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I know I can using Volumio as the selected DAC is a dropdown, I did it myself when I got my Topping DAC. I don't know about with Squeezelite or Picoreplayer.

 

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