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Initial impressions RPi vs uRendu

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Posted on March 11, 2017 at 12:50:51
E-Stat
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 I am comparing they two streamers upstairs in the main system as following:

Pi 3B with HifiBerry Digi+ Jameco 1A 5V linear PS via DH Labs optical to ARC DAC8
uRendu HDPlex 2A 7V linear PS thru Audiophilleo 2 USB converter to BNC on ARC DAC8

I could have used the coax out on the RPi and an RCA to BNC connector, but the above arranement allowed for only swapping the Ethernet cable.

I'll cut to the chase - the RPI is a phenomenally good bargain and doesn't miss that much as compared with the more expensive uRendu setup. And, it could be that I'm hearing mostly power supply differences. Perhaps I'll need to reconfigure the HDPlex for 5V operation as another variable.

What I'm hearing for the most part is more dynamic impact and emotion with the uRendu. I'm listening to the opening tracks from the soundtrack to Fanstastic Beasts and Where to Find Them. There's great bass drum slam with a very realistic sense of its air wafting through the hall. Fine percussion is ever so slightly better delineated with the uRendu along with a greater sense of sustain from the harmonics with upper percussion like the triangle.

It seems I'm always a bit late to the party, but I can positively say that now I get it about this cute little box. FWIW, I did take Soundchekk's suggestion and configured the buffers for 20k and 600k which means it's pretty much playing from memory as opposed to streaming.

Wifey's out of town this weekend, so I'm gonna do lots of comparative listening. I want to compare voice, piano and complex synth content to get a full measure of other character differences.

Stay tuned!

 

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RE: Initial impressions RPi vs uRendu, posted on March 11, 2017 at 13:14:44
Mercman
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 Thanks for the initial impressions. 5v for the HDPlex/microRendu is too low. 7-9v is better.

 

Perhaps I wasn't clear with my description, posted on March 11, 2017 at 13:18:48
E-Stat
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 I'm currently running the HDPlex at 7V for the uRendu. I would need to recalibrate the screw adjustment for 5V operation for the RPi which will require use of a VOM and a bit of effort.

 

RE: Perhaps I wasn't clear with my description, posted on March 11, 2017 at 13:37:31
Mercman
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 Effort is good for you :)

Remember the precaution for measurement found under Specs

 

Yeah, I read the memo last summer, posted on March 11, 2017 at 13:48:55
E-Stat
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 when I initially set it.

Otherwise, the PS might not be working today. :)

 

RE: Initial impressions RPi vs uRendu, posted on March 11, 2017 at 14:05:28
Dynobot
 Very interesting

Thanks for the initial review.

The difference seems more like shades of grey vs night and day. I wonder what the greatest contributing factor might be.... Maybe a combination of small things.

I really think iFi should get into the ARMs race. They seem to be Keen on all the things that could benefit a steamer.

 

No hyperbole here, posted on March 11, 2017 at 15:43:10
E-Stat
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 While differences exist, they are not of the "component A simply blows away B" nor "even my wife could hear it from the kitchen" sort of thing.

They are very much there, but subtle. And as I suggested, using a more robust PS with the RPi could narrow the gap in my environment. For some, however, the lack of DSD and/or Roon support with the RPi could be significant if one's library included a lot of that content.

I'm continuing to listen to a wide range of favorites with both.

 

Power Supply, posted on March 11, 2017 at 20:04:16
triodesteve
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 Can I assume that you are powering the RPI and Digi + thru the RPI and not directly to the HIFI Berry board?

Also you said below that RPI is not compatible with Roon. Probably just a typing error.

Thanks for the informative post.

Steve

 

RPi Does Work With Roon, posted on March 12, 2017 at 04:58:45
Dynobot
 Just enter the Roon IP under the set up tab where it asks for the LMS IP.

Once rebooted your player will become a Roon Bridge and show up in Roon.

If you want a Roon Bridge the is RAAT capable you can install HiFiBerrys image or others like from DietPi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Creating a Lean and Mean Roon Bridge
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/dietpi-creating-a-lean-and-mean-roon-bridge/13908
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DietPi is imo the best RPi software available. Its extremely light weight and is very easily configurable to turn your RPi into just about anything. It starts out with just the basic core OS and you get to add on only what you want. Everything works perfectly too...as well as great support.


DietPi
http://dietpi.com/

 

Yes, posted on March 12, 2017 at 07:00:13
E-Stat
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 the Digi+ is a HAT to the main board.

Mea culpa regarding Roon. Unlike the uRendu, however, one must use a different image than PcP like that of HiFiBerry's.

 

PcP Works with Roon Too...nt, posted on March 12, 2017 at 07:06:46
Dynobot
 .

 

Just researched the topic, posted on March 12, 2017 at 07:15:05
E-Stat
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 Not just a selection from menu as with uRendu, but flashing a new image isn't a big deal.

 

RE: Just researched the topic, posted on March 12, 2017 at 09:02:07
Dynobot
 You have a few choices for RPi and Roon.

Flash a new Debian image and install Roon manually
Flash the HiFiBerry image
Flash DietPi and configure/install Roon via UI
Use PcP as an end-point for Roon [no RAAT]

The top three are all Debian Jessie, DietPi is the lightest, HiFiBerry has less after-flash work for configuring, Debian maybe has the next less work for after-flash [just run a couple of commands to install the Roon Bridge].

Debian might need some extra work to find the HAT too.

FWIW, I tried them all several times with and without tweaks. I like PcP better for some reason. Don't know why because RAAT should be the clear winner.

 

RE: Yes, posted on March 12, 2017 at 11:57:16
triodesteve
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 Thanks. I just ordered parts to power the HiFi Berry directly...maybe I'll go crazy and and power the RPI separately.
One negative thing about Roon and I guess networked audio in general....I'm running out of AC outlets. NAS, switches, many, many power supplies. And I hate clutter!

If only I could figure out how to make RPI work with my Hiface.....

 

After extended listening, posted on March 12, 2017 at 13:02:02
E-Stat
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 my evaluation is pretty much the same.

uRendu has a slight advantage in terms of low level detail, resolution and dynamic punch.

And DSD capability - which I don't as yet leverage.

 

RE: Initial impressions RPi vs uRendu, posted on March 13, 2017 at 01:13:08
soundchekk
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 You're not comparing RPI vs. MicroRendu!!!

You've got a complete shuffled environment of interfaces, devices, cables . SW asf.

For sure this will lead you to wrong conclusions!!

For sure It won't be a RPI vs. MicroRendu comparison here.

However.
Obviously what matters is the outcome. If you're happy with what u hear
already, I'm pretty sure with some minor adjustments you'd be even happier.

BTW.
Did u try PiCorePlayer? With all mods on (HDMI off - LED off asf)?
Are u streaming PCM or flac? There's plenty of stuff to gain.


BTW.

Here's my HifiBerry thread (my first HAT project):

There a numerous tweaks listed. Many of them will also apply to the HB digital interface:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/285811-hifiberry-dac-pro-hw-mods-anybody.html


And. If you've got 45years of diy-audio experience I really don't understand why you run after stuff like HDPlex supplies.
That stuff is something for folks like Mercman who can hardly turn a screwdriver.


Enjoy.






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RE: Initial impressions RPi vs uRendu, posted on March 13, 2017 at 03:12:59
E-Stat
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 You're not comparing RPI vs. MicroRendu!!!

Given that its impossible to compare a unit that is USB output only with one that is S/PDIF only, I'm comparing how folks actually use them. :)

Did u try PiCorePlayer? With all mods on (HDMI off - LED off asf)?
Are u streaming PCM or flac?

I think you've missed my previous posts where those questions are answered.

Off to the airport now at O'dark thirty!

 

RE: Initial impressions RPi vs uRendu, posted on March 13, 2017 at 03:39:37
soundchekk
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 "...I'm comparing how folks actually use them..."

It is just you. Sorry. You're comparing two systems, your unique systems. Not just two devices.

The thread title is misleading, thus your thread and
conclusion is pretty useless to us folks.

If you intend to run a rather useful comparison "Pi vs. MicroRendu" hook your Audiophilio up to the Pi and microRendu. That at least would make a little sense to us folks.
You'd still don't know what software tweaks are implemented on the MicroRendu. One thing for sure. Svensson was closely following my
SB Touch adventures and trying these himself. I'm pretty sure he put quite a focus into that area too.

Then the USB ports of the PI are not known for audiophile qualities.
Bottom line. If I'd run a to me useful shootout on USB transports, I'd put at least something like a $100 iPurifier to the test environment. That still would make a nice combo and a bargain solution in comparison to the MR.



Enjoy.

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RE: Initial impressions RPi vs uRendu, posted on March 13, 2017 at 04:20:58
Dynobot
 You actually could plug your Rpi into your USB device like the uRu. No need to take the HAT off just select a different output.

This would be more of a direct comparison between devices, as it stands the Digi+ and your Audiophilio can affect the sound in very large ways.

Kind of an unfair advantage, like comparing two sprinters, one with sandals on and the other with $500 sprinting shoes....albeit the sandals might be really comfortable.

 

Why would I, posted on March 13, 2017 at 04:40:50
E-Stat
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 Better still - how would I connect a USB to S/PDIF converter to a unit with only S/PDIF outputs?

Many folks have asked to provide my impressions for comparing the two. :)

 

RE: Why would I, posted on March 13, 2017 at 04:52:42
Dynobot
 The RPi still has USB ports, you can connect the USB converter and use it as outputs rather than the spdif. Just reboot and choose USB output instead of Digi+ Pro.

I'm guessing that if both were RPi's [one spdif out and the other to your USB converter] they would sound different. The Digi+ is pretty good at $50 but I don't know if its on the same level as the Audiophilleo 2 a $500+ converter.

Then add on top of that the uRu is powered from a $400 Linear PS vs. a $11 wallwart....

I'd say power the uRu from a wallwart and use both as USB out to the Audiophilleo would be a fair fight.

But if you think about it, it took nearly $1k worth of peripherals to give the uRu a slight advantage over the RPi.

Hmmmmmmmm

 

RE: Why would I, posted on March 13, 2017 at 05:29:59
soundchekk
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 "Many folks have asked to provide my impressions for comparing the two"

Yep. "the two". Not the six to ten.

Dynobot, in his response, tried to make clear what I'm talking about.

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RE: Why would I, posted on March 13, 2017 at 05:39:17
Dynobot
 Sometimes people don't go into rooms because they are afraid of what they might see.
I suspect finding out the RPi is just as good or better than a uRu is not what many audiophiles really want to know, especially after spending all that money.

I bet it's the same for other gear too. People tend to keep their high end expensive gear away from the cheap stuff... And never the two shall meet.

I used to be the same way, until 'just for kicks' I compared a cheap Valab DAC to a Lavry DAC and was shocked that the Valab was more musical. It took a lot of going back and forth comparisons before I was forced to face the truth. I sold the Lavry and turned in my audiophile badge. Same thing with the Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum, I tried to live it, after all it was a higher priced respected unit, loved by audiophiles

 

RE: Why would I, posted on March 13, 2017 at 05:50:37
soundchekk
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 Thx.

I hope he'll get it now.


"fair fight"

Nope. The MicroRendu comes with a well done USB port.
Most of us know what the known USB gadgets do to the sound.
That's why I said he should add one of these USB gadgets
to the bill.
Otherwise I wouldn't see a fair chance for the naked RPI to beat the MicroRendu.
Except.
If the Audiophillio (or any other USB DAC/interface) is that good that upstream originated mess wouldn't have much of an impact, what would this tell us then !?!? Something about RPI vs. MicroRendu!!?? Hmmh. Maybe!?!?
It could also tell us something about the Audiophillio !?!?


His comparison can easily be questioned - about fairness - from several angles.

However. If somebody is looking for a nice SPDIF solution I guess he might have a valid story about a system - his system - and not a device.
Obviously for now we havn't taken his DAC into the scope. That one will play its own role again.



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RE: Why would I, posted on March 13, 2017 at 06:15:09
soundchekk
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 A Pi alone won't make a great transport.
It requires a little effort to make it sing. But it's IMO possible.


Most people are just lazy and rather put a grand or more on the table
for the next potentially greatest thing ever - because somebody said so.



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RE: Why would I, posted on March 13, 2017 at 09:56:55
Dynobot
 I agree with you on all accounts

 

RE: Why would I, posted on March 13, 2017 at 10:28:10
AbeCollins
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 Yup, microRendu comes with a "well done USB port", and Ethernet. Pi combines multiple USB ports and 10/100 Ethernet on a single hub. Even a PC or Mac will have separate USB hubs for multiple USB ports, and a separate Gigabit Ethernet controller.

Does it matter sonically?



 

Yep it matters, posted on March 13, 2017 at 10:34:50
Dynobot
 I think....

At least it should matter.

But then it might not.

 

RE: Why would I, posted on March 13, 2017 at 10:36:54
soundchekk
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 "Does it matter soncially?"

If you'd ask Archimago: No way. All measurements look the same. It's all in our heads.


From my perspective: Everything matters! How much it matters is a different question and a very personal matter.

Enjoy.

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RE: Initial impressions RPi vs uRendu, posted on March 13, 2017 at 11:22:31
fmak
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 He claims that his system is 'optimised'. I asked him how and he just replied with a load of bull.

As you said, this is an indication that he has not optimised or gotten the best out of his components.

To power a little uRendu with a beast of a power supply designed for general computer use is just an indication of the above.

 

Valab DAC to a Lavry DAC , posted on March 13, 2017 at 12:25:21
fmak
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 No surprise. The Lavry resamples to 110 kHz or thereabouts and the clocking is suspect.

 

RE: Why would I, posted on March 13, 2017 at 12:27:07
fmak
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 Some of these guys either have suspect hearing, or more probably suspect music and equipment setup.

 

RE: Why would I, posted on March 13, 2017 at 12:55:48
Dynobot
 I bet all of us have suspect hearing to some degree.

I think many of us take this hobby to serious and stop enjoying music, but instead get caught up analyzing sound.

 

I completely Agree ! ............LOL !..................nt, posted on March 13, 2017 at 12:56:05
Cut-Throat
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 nt



 

RE: Valab DAC to a Lavry DAC , posted on March 13, 2017 at 13:00:19
Dynobot
 Back then I had a Anthem tube preamp. I spent $500 on a pair of Acoustic Zen IC's and a nice power cord thinking/hoping I could make that Lavry sound good....or at least listenable for more than a hour.

I tried my best to like it, but it was impossible.

 

Me too. I think. Maybe. Maybe not ;-), posted on March 13, 2017 at 13:07:47
AbeCollins
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 .

 

fmak misunderstanding simple concepts, posted on March 13, 2017 at 13:10:43
AbeCollins
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 ..and again on the attack due to his comprehension issues.



 

RE: Initial impressions RPi vs uRendu, posted on March 13, 2017 at 13:24:28
Mercman
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 Klaus,

Is this really necessary?

"That stuff is something for folks like Mercman who can hardly turn a screwdriver."

 

RE: Initial impressions RPi vs uRendu, posted on March 13, 2017 at 13:45:20
Dynobot
 Its okay, these days we have power screw drivers!

Just hold it and push the button.

 

I guess the operative question is, posted on March 13, 2017 at 19:24:32
E-Stat
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 How many folks purchase a RPi, use the USB out and purchase a USB to S/PDIF converter? There is only one reason I use one - I have to. Unbeknownst to me at the time, the USB 2.0 input on the ARC DAC required a Windows based driver. Just recently, I got notification there is an upgraded board that supports Mac, but when I asked about the uRendu, the response was it doesn't support LInux. Gee, I thought Mac OS was essentially a Linux core. Go figure.

I've already observed the disparity in cost and specifically mentioned that perhaps what I'm really hearing is power supply differences.

Gee guys, I'm just comparing systems that folks might put together, not dissecting each and every piece. Maybe someone should compare a naked board to an acrylic one while they are comparing everything else under a microscope.

I am open to any further suggestions as to kernel settings that might prove to be beneficial which don't sacrifice usability or stability. I mentioned the buffer and hdmi_blanking to Sounchekk and since he did not respond, silly me I thought that meant there wasn't anything else. Now he's talking about disabling the LEDs?

Perhaps he or others might put together a complete list in a single place!

 

At the expense of confusing the issue with facts, posted on March 13, 2017 at 19:35:24
E-Stat
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 1. I make no assertion as to the opimization of a board based computer that I've used for less than a week. I bought a list of parts recommended by folks here using what kernel tuning suggestions were suggested. Now Soundchekk is adding to the list. Great!

2. As for power supplies, Sonore recommends three models for use with the uRendu with 7V 2A capability. I wasn't going to spend $1k on their Signature version and really didn't want a cheap SMPS. I chose the third option. It would seem you don't understand the HDPlex has multiple individually selectable rails.

You cannot run a general purpose computer with a 2A supply.

 

RE: I guess the operative question is, posted on March 13, 2017 at 19:39:54
AbeCollins
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 Just when someone puts together a complete list, they'll discover a new planet along with different gravitational forces acting upon your Pi. It's a losing battle. Your system vs system comparison approach was just fine by me and probably not as susceptible to micro perturbations like individual components, LED's included. ;-)



 

Which presumably, posted on March 13, 2017 at 19:59:03
E-Stat
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 is why most folks here don't use USB for audio out.

 

Who confuses what? You posted 'After extensive testing....', posted on March 13, 2017 at 23:12:24
fmak
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 http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/16/163540.html

This kind of post just misleads new comers (and even some older hands).

 

Another Trolling Post, posted on March 13, 2017 at 23:13:31
fmak
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 nt

 

RE: Initial impressions RPi vs uRendu, posted on March 14, 2017 at 02:03:25
soundchekk
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 Yep. It was.

I honestly care about you.

I keep trying to get you away from that commercial brain-wash/marketing track.

You recall how much fun you had when attaching a stupid coil to
a cable?
Can you imagine how much fun it is to build your own system!?!?

Just try. And you'll never look back!


Enjoy.



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RE: I guess the operative question is, posted on March 14, 2017 at 04:15:38
Dynobot
 Actually I use my RPi with USB out.

My Dac has a self powered Amenero board inside. Meaning its essentially the same as having an outboard USB converter with I2S output....which is what the Amenero feeds the Dac as output.


 

System vs. System, posted on March 14, 2017 at 04:39:21
Dynobot
 Sure, system vs. system is fine. Just as long as its understood that you are not comparing one individual part of the system.

Usually when a comparison is done people try to eliminate the variables so that only the 'two' things being compared.

Dependent Variable = Sound
Independent Variable = Streamer
Estat Independent Variable[s] = Streamer + Power Supplies [Wallwart, HDPlex] + USB Converter + OS/Software + SPDIF Cable + Digi+ HAT + Music Material ?[DSD etc]

Hopefully any experiment will only have 'one' independent variable and the setup will be identical.

 

Typical..., posted on March 14, 2017 at 05:57:59
E-Stat
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 You can't even read two words correctly-neither one!

And apparently don't have the foggiest clue how to put that single weekend's session into context.

 

Have a look in the mirror, posted on March 14, 2017 at 06:01:41
AbeCollins
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You're the one who jumped into this thread with nothing but nasty criticism (as you often do) on topics that only you seem unable to comprehend. Everyone else "gets it". Doesn't that tell you something?

And why continue with the taunts at E-Stat ? Haven't you embarrassed yourself enough with your endless carrying on? It's obvious to me who the real troll is here.













 

Then help me understand, posted on March 14, 2017 at 06:04:46
E-Stat
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 The pic you posted of your RPi in DAC box on the 8th(sorry I'm traveling and embedding link is trickier with pad)

What I see is an RCA cable coming out of what looks like my HiFiBerry Digi+!

Edit: especially with spell corrupt :)

 

RE: Then help me understand, posted on March 14, 2017 at 06:17:19
Dynobot
 I have 4 RPis..... Two with Digi+ pro and to without

 

RE: Typical...Yes, posted on March 14, 2017 at 06:35:37
fmak
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 No one here should believe your claims.

 

Troll 2, posted on March 14, 2017 at 06:36:32
fmak
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 nt

 

For those of us who, posted on March 14, 2017 at 06:50:52
E-Stat
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 Have some mastery of the English language - for which you clearly do not - that initial impression is just that. The term is called a "baseline experience". Do you understand the word "baseline"?

I compared what I bought to what I had. There was zero experimentation. I plugged it in as I use it in the other system and listened. Do you understand the difference in meaning between the words "experimentation" and "listening"?

 

Which do you prefer?, posted on March 14, 2017 at 06:54:15
E-Stat
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 What are your observations between the two approaches? Do you use both because neither offers an sonic advantage?

Sorry for all the questions, but presumably this is the kind of information decided noobies to the Pi thing like me seek.

Thanks!

 

RE: For those of us who, posted on March 14, 2017 at 08:15:58
AbeCollins
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I can understand your frustration. He was constantly ragging on me when I posted pictures about a "preliminary" setup to test for basic "functionality". He didn't understand those key words and went on to criticize my use of "crock clips" between my audio setup and bench power supply. Hello? "preliminary" and basic "functionality". He never got it.








 

RE: Which presumably, posted on March 14, 2017 at 09:07:01
Dynobot
 I don't think the USB 'situation' makes any real difference.

I have 4 RPi's two with the Digi+ Pro and two without. I normally use one of those small adapters to just plug the RPi right into my Dac via USB...Audiogd Master 7.


 

RE: Which do you prefer?, posted on March 14, 2017 at 09:27:59
Dynobot
 Initially I purchased the RPi to use with my Master 7 Dac. Again because it has its own self powered USB to I2S card my intentions were to only use USB out.
I purchased a Digi+ to see what all the hype was about. It was okay [just okay]. Ended up using it for my Pie-in-the-Box project with the RPi inside of the Dac….spdif out.
Then they came out with the Digi+ Pro with the two clocks. Again I just wanted to see, so I purchased one…it was much better, plus I could use it to power the RPi directly.

So I purchased a couple more RPi's, one for my tube Dacs and one for my Master 7. I like the sound of the Digi+ Pro vs. USB in my Havana tubed Dac so I ended up with
2x Digi+ Pro and a RPi for USB out to one Dac.

Sound wise I like feeding my Master 7 Asynch via USB, and letting the Amanero convert it to I2S.
I like feeding my Havana spdif over USB and I was forced to use spdif for my project.

 

Speed reading, posted on March 14, 2017 at 17:20:30
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37584
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 And retention has cleared failed him.

 

Another, posted on March 15, 2017 at 08:12:59
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 ujustifiable claim.

 

RE: For those of us who, posted on March 15, 2017 at 08:14:18
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 have another fake excuse!

 

Would you kindly, posted on March 15, 2017 at 09:16:43
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37584
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 quote the text you find "ujustifiable"? I don't have to foggiest clue as to what you refer. Do you?

Or is this yet another fabrication of what I've actually posted as you did with this post?

Actual posted comment: "After extended listening"
Fmak's delusion: "After extensive testing"

 

RE: For those of us who, posted on March 15, 2017 at 12:11:15
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
What are you talking about? Do you even know?



 

RE: Would you kindly, posted on March 15, 2017 at 12:31:32
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 No. Since you claim superior linguistic abilities, work it out for yourself.

And, please just DO not try any more the language card. It should be quite obvious to others here I have native English.

 

Clearly..., posted on March 15, 2017 at 14:03:16
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37584
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 he does not.

You will never find him quote a statement and discuss the merits of its contents. Can you say conversation?

Instead, all you find are nebulous and vacuous posts - some of which with fabricated content that attempt to convey... something?

Has anyone ever figured out what that is? :)

 

Another empty, baseless post, posted on March 15, 2017 at 14:27:14
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37584
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 attempting to *support* even more delusionary claims. Do you really not get it?

Honestly, I never expected a rational answer because - there clearly is none. Any more than I expect you to acknowledge your fabricated *quotes* from me. All one has to do is read your claim and the linked post and then wonder why it is you have such difficulty dealing with reality.

Do you actually have conversations with human beings? You know, someone asks a question and you respond. At least to that which they've said and not with an imaginative perspective of reality? You've never answered any number of questions I've asked you.

Do you not understand the words?
Are you uncomfortable with the answer?
Are you incapable of carrying on a conversation?
Why is that?

Thanks for verifying your inability to substantiate English language skills here on Planet Earth. :)

 

Because..., posted on March 15, 2017 at 15:54:29
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37584
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 If you've got 45years of diy-audio experience I really don't understand why you run after stuff like HDPlex supplies.

The uRendu manufacturer recommended it?

Sorry, but I have a professional life and don't have the time to cobble up my own 7V power supply. Or assume, that Sonore doesn't know what they're doing.

 

I'm intrigued, posted on March 15, 2017 at 16:34:03
PaulN
Audiophile

Posts: 1412
Joined: January 13, 2000
 by these micro servers/renderers but I'm still on the fence. I'd be more inclined to buy a rendu than cobble together a Pi and the supercapacitor supply very much intrigues me. But that $1000 could instead go other places in my system, such as some vinyl tweaks and/or an Okki Noki record cleaner. I just have a hard tiume accepting that the rendu is going to make much of a difference over my direct connection from my imac via usb. I could even try an hdmi connection as my DAC has an input. It's like Peter Belt (RIP) is offering me a magic alarm clock and green pens all over again. Did they help? Maybe. But so do a lot of other things that cost less and possibly render a higher value for the improvements. IDK. It would be easier if the rendu was half it's current price.

 

RE: I'm intrigued, posted on March 15, 2017 at 16:50:03
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37584
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 I just have a hard tiume accepting that the rendu is going to make much of a difference over my direct connection from my imac via usb.

From Abe Collin's experience, the answer is likely very little.

It would be easier if the rendu was half it's current price.

For me, it's plug 'n play superiority over my SB Touch player was worth it. I love the little RPi, but its a delicate creature. Nudge the micro USB power connector and it will power off. It's a great project for those who wish to tinker (and I do to an extent), but is not as stable a product as most consumers require. This is where the uRendu is superior.

 

Amazing how you guys waste bandwidth with useless banter, posted on March 15, 2017 at 18:23:48
Dynobot
 Out of all the posts here you guys spend more time and words arguing about nothing vs. posting something useful towards the topic.


Amazing....well maybe not, more predictable but still amazing.

 

RE: I'm intrigued, posted on March 15, 2017 at 19:05:32
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 "I just have a hard time accepting that the rendu is going to make much of a difference over my direct connection from my imac via usb."

I run both, a direct connect DAC to my computer and streaming over the network to the microRendu. Both sound outstanding. There is NOT a huge night and day improvement from one platform to another in my experience comparing my two setups. Of course this assumes that the direct connect computer setup is reasonably well thought out and not a botched up mess. Some folks are just all thumbs when it comes to computers so in those cases I would expect the network streamer to sound so much better.

This may be counter to the rational and what you read in the audio press, but the press will always favor, elevate, and hype audiophile brands & products that generate ad revenue over DIY computer based sources (or even DIY streamers).

In defense of reviewers, it probably doesn't make sense for them to review any DIY setup including their own as each individual system will consist of different configurations of Mac, PC, Windows, Mac OS, Linux, player software, etc. And you're not likely to see PCs and Macs advertised in audio magazines. Same goes for DIY streamers based on Raspberry Pi or other small generic computers. If it's not a "box" with an audiophile brand on it that a magazine can advertise and a reviewer can simply turn-ON and review, you're not likely to see much praise written for it. In fact, you'll usually see just the opposite.

BTW, the microRendu does not require a designer LPS power source (or ultracaps) to sound outstanding. You can certainly add one if you have extra cash burning a hole in your pocket but I have better places to allocate finite funds. Maybe a $1000 USB cable! ;-)

Just my 2-cents worth.


 

+1 DIY is great if you have lots of time on your hands...., posted on March 15, 2017 at 19:20:46
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 I've been a DIYer since my teens but in recent years it's been more cost effective and time effective for me to buy certain things.

Time spent on work and family are more valuable with higher returns vs time spent and any cash 'saved' on certain DIY projects. In other words, at this point in my life it makes more sense to earn money and buy vs DIY. That may change when I'm retired - or unemployed. ;-)


 

RE: I'm intrigued, posted on March 16, 2017 at 04:07:12
Dynobot
 The choice is yours.

Cobble something together ie Flash a SD-card and insert a RPi inside a case -or- buy a $600 unit with it already done.

If the RPi scenario is too labor intensive, then just go with the uRu and don't look back.

As it stands the uRu seems to be just slightly better even with $1k+ extra peripherals [HDPlex PS + Converter].

Choices Choices....

 

RE: +1 DIY is great if you have lots of time on your hands...., posted on March 16, 2017 at 04:16:24
Dynobot
 Well I can't claim to have decades of DIY experience but these days DIY projects like cobbling together a RPi or even a PS probably takes less than 1 hour, even for the novice.

Nothing wrong with buying off the shelf stuff though.

Everybody's take on HiFi is different. For me its a hobby which means I get pleasure with some amount of DIY. It took me all of 2 minutes to de-solder and solder on a couple of new Capacitors in a Havana Dac. And probably the same to cobble together a RPi set-up.

 

RE: Initial impressions RPi vs uRendu, posted on March 16, 2017 at 04:21:19
Dynobot
 You recall how much fun you had when attaching a stupid coil to
a cable?


LOL!!!!!

Sound complicated and labor intensive, would be much easier to spend $500 on the same cable with a coil already attached.

Plus he would have more time to spend "quality time" with the family!


 

I guess I keep thinking that, posted on March 16, 2017 at 05:43:58
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37584
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 he will someday respond to me with a cogent post or to a question.

I don't experience the same lack of conversational ability with anyone else here. For example, I don't agree with everything Soundchekk has offered, but he responds to my questions and I his. With your seemingly contradictory post about using USB output (given the previous posted picture) you responded in a logical manner explaining you actually use both. While at the same time, I've learned stuff from each of you. And many others here.

And if you're going to disagree with someone, at least address what they've actually posted, not creating text out of thin air. Especially when you link to the alleged source which contains what was actually written. That's a real head scratcher for me.

Perhaps it's time to acknowledge Frank lives in an artificial reality and is incapable of rational discourse.

 

RE: +1 DIY is great if you have lots of time on your hands...., posted on March 16, 2017 at 07:35:26
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
I assembled an RPi audio setup a few years ago. I admit that it was fun but those early RPi were under powered and didn't work so great for audio. I know things have changed.

The $640 uRendu is a relative bargain against so many 'off the shelf' audiophile streamers and other related gear so I'm not too concerned. And it will have resale value if I ever decide to let it go.



 

RE: I'm intrigued, posted on March 16, 2017 at 07:49:20
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
As it stands the uRu seems to be just slightly better even with $1k+ extra peripherals [HDPlex PS + Converter].

It may sound slightly better even without the extra $1K in goodies. That just happens to be E-Stat's setup because he happens to have the HDPlex PS and his DAC requires the USB/SPDIF converter.

I haven't heard this comparison but I wouldn't be too surprised if the RPi were JUST AS GOOD sonically. I'm the one who has been preaching for years that from a practical perspective the DAC is significantly more important in influencing the sonic character of the system vs whatever is feeding it.... PC/Mac/Linux/Windows/MacOS/CD transport or a network streamer. Of course this assumes that the source is at least reasonably well thought out and decent. Obviously not a popular view given all the effort folks put into their source. I'm guilty of that too but not to any extreme measure.




 

You mean..., posted on March 16, 2017 at 08:24:50
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37584
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 The $640 uRendu is a relative bargain against so many 'off the shelf' audiophile streamers...

like the $17k Aurender W20? :)

 

RE: You mean..., posted on March 16, 2017 at 09:02:05
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
Yes, that one! And several more.

 

RE: I'm intrigued, posted on March 16, 2017 at 09:10:12
Dynobot
 Well my Dac has $70 Dac chips so everything sounds good...:-)

 

That would be Right Said Fred..., posted on March 16, 2017 at 10:10:51
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 but we know who you are talking about. ;-)


 

LOL ! -nt, posted on March 16, 2017 at 10:27:09
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37584
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 .

 

It will be interesting to read Steve's upcoming evaluation, posted on March 16, 2017 at 12:18:11
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37584
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 between the Sonore Signature, UpTone Audio UltraCap LPS-1, HDPlex 100w, and Fidelizer Nikola LPS.

While some find my HDPlex 2A power supply overkill (uRendu requires only 1A), the Nikola delivers 6.4A and the Sonore Signature, a whopping 12A!

Philosophically, I'm in the Ultracap camp given its clever approach. I wish that unit was available last summer when I had to make a decision.

 

A Bargain?, posted on March 16, 2017 at 16:01:13
Dynobot
 On the other hand, it takes nearly twice its cost in peripherals to be just barely better than a $35 general purpose cobbled together toy.

So at nearly $2k it just wins over the RPi.

You call that a bargain?


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

RE: It will be interesting to read Steve's upcoming evaluation, posted on March 16, 2017 at 16:33:14
Windows X
Manufacturer

Posts: 209
Location: Thailand
Joined: February 28, 2011
 Allow me to correct some information about power supply output.

1. HDPlex never made dedicated 2A for 7V output. That'll mean they use 15VA transformer and I can't find such products in their website. They may use 100VA transformer and regulate 7V output with 2A for current limit. That's one possibility.

2. Having more reserved power in transformer is generally better. When you use 1A, you should have transformer capable of sending 2A at least for optimal performance. Using transformer with maximum limit is dangerous to equipment due to chance of insufficient power.

3. 6.4A for 7V output is from calculation of what Nikola can send for 7V output with 45VA transformer. It's also possible to build 36VA for 12V and 9VA for 7V making 3A@12V and 1.28A@9V too.

HDPlex actually uses 100VA of differnt transformer type which is more than double of Nikola ultra low noise toroidal transformer.

I came here to provide knowledge about power supply usage and I believe every products has its own uses for different market. Some also use LPS-1 together with HDPlex and Nikola too for high quality two step-regulation design. :)

Regards,
Keetakawee

 

Let's put everything in perspective, posted on March 16, 2017 at 16:40:23
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37584
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 just barely better than a $35 general purpose cobbled together toy.

That buys you a naked board devoid of case, power supply and digital output. Unusable at that level to do anything. BTW, I've ordered a HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro given your recommendation. That was not part of our fisherman's original guideline. Perhaps I should have started there. Let's say $150 vs $640 for an equivalent, operational product.

So at nearly $2k it just wins over the RPi.

I'm not sure where you get the $2k figure. My investment is $640 for the uRendu, $400 for the power supply and because my DAC doesn't support a Linux based USB device, another $500 for the S/PDIF converter. That was an unplanned expense. Call it $1k.

And yes, I would definitely call a $1k device of that sound quality a bargain vs any number of hideously expensive alternatives. :)

ps: I've begun experimentation with my battery supplies. I need more time, but I believe using even a 1A battery provides more resolution than the $13 Jameco linear. Back to listening to it. :)

 

Ok, posted on March 16, 2017 at 16:49:45
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37584
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 They may use 100VA transformer and regulate 7V output with 2A for current limit.

That is the stated specification for that leg. The voltage is variable from 5V to 19V.

HDPlex actually uses 100VA of differnt transformer type which is more than double of Nikola ultra low noise toroidal transformer.

Yes, the HDPlex uses an R-core transformer instead. Which is what Audio Research has been using in lieu of toroidals for slightly over ten years. Both my DAC and preamp use that type.

 

RE: Let's put everything in perspective, posted on March 16, 2017 at 17:03:46
Dynobot
 Okay maybe I exaggerated a little in favor of the RPi.




 

RE: Let's put everything in perspective, posted on March 16, 2017 at 17:54:41
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 By about $1300 !! ;-)

uRendu $640. Power supply $60.



 

RE: Let's put everything in perspective, posted on March 16, 2017 at 17:55:55
Dynobot
 A slight rounding error...:)

 

RE: Let's put everything in perspective, posted on March 16, 2017 at 17:58:12
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 My battery supply. Using a 7.2V 10Ah NiMH battery with lower ESR than Li-Ion per your recommendation.... and it has a more constant voltage output before drop-off when it begins to deplete.




 

RE: Let's put everything in perspective, posted on March 16, 2017 at 17:59:44
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
You were just trying to make a point. We forgive you. ;-)



 

RE: I'm intrigued, posted on March 16, 2017 at 18:56:39
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
"I just have a hard tiume accepting that the rendu is going to make much of a difference over my direct connection from my imac via usb."

Not sure it needs to in order to be a viable solution. OTOH, I've known John Swenson for quite a long while and would bet that it does, at least when compared to my MacBook Air.

I can stream QOBUZ, TIDAL and play ripped CDs from any computer in the house, as long as I have a DAC nearby.

But with the uRendu, all I need is an Ethernet jack and a USB DAC and I'm in business, no laptop needed.

IF you intend to put your music on a NAS drive and have a decent Ethernet LAN in you house, it might be the way to go.

For myself, I use SONOS in about every room but for $100+ and a bit of work, the HiFi Berry Raspberry Pi solution might have some merit. I really like the idea of getting computers out of my music system and back in the office where they belong.

Plus it would give me a chance to find out if my brain is capable of dealing with technical issues at this late date.






First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

:-) /n, posted on March 16, 2017 at 19:01:36
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 n


First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: Initial impressions RPi vs uRendu, posted on March 16, 2017 at 19:04:11
justdavid
Audiophile

Posts: 167
Joined: February 27, 2009



After reading all this,
I've determined I like the rpi3
Because of the Lego case option.

 

RE: Ok, posted on March 16, 2017 at 22:23:01
Windows X
Manufacturer

Posts: 209
Location: Thailand
Joined: February 28, 2011
 Normally, it's ideal to have output from transformer about the same regulated output. Maybe little less or above depending out voltage level.

Nikola uses different transformer outputs for matching requested output voltage. If you order 7V from us, we'll use transformer with different output from 12V model.

R-Core transformer is often used in analog equipment for high current output with more power in compact size. I haven't seen any company producing highend digital equipment using R-core transformer though.

Toroidal transformer is often used in digital equipment for linear power supply. For example, Esoteric uses that for every models. Other highend companies producing digital equipment like dCS/Emm Labs will use switching power supply as an alternative.

To get the same power output using toroidal transformer, it'll be bigger than R-core. Since you seems interested in HDPlex product, I won't comment further about its design principles as that isn't appropriate in my position to say more than that.

Regards,
Keetakawee

 

RE: Ok, posted on March 17, 2017 at 04:06:27
Dynobot
 I haven't seen any company producing highend digital equipment using R-core transformer though.

Really?

What kind of 'digital' equipment? Dacs?

What would you suppose the benefits or drawbacks would be to using R-Cores in digital equipment?

 

RE: Ok, posted on March 17, 2017 at 04:44:03
Windows X
Manufacturer

Posts: 209
Location: Thailand
Joined: February 28, 2011
 What kind of 'digital' equipment? Dacs?
: CD Transport and DAC yeah.

What would you suppose the benefits or drawbacks would be to using R-Cores in digital equipment?
: Benefits of R-core in digital equipment? Maybe you can build smaller size DAC with higher VA. I think toroidal transformer is more suitable for digital equipment with lower noise.

Regards,
Keetakawee

 

RE: Ok, posted on March 17, 2017 at 05:01:17
Dynobot
 Interesting.

My Dac's have R-Core.

Is it your opinion that Toroidal is better than C-Core too?

It was my understanding that low level source components benefit from R-Core.

 

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