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Do you have any DAC suggestion that sounds like vinyl? :)

195.46.148.130

Posted on February 13, 2017 at 23:16:48
KOCA
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Recently, my wife and I went to listen to some speakers at a dealer. We played some of our CDs and the sound was pretty good (except one CD sounded horrible). Then we switched the setup to play from a turntable. WOW! What a difference! It was like as if the sound was creating air that we could feel. The dimension changed. The tone changed. It was like night and day. Although I had heard turntable before I have never had a chance to compare it in the same listening session.

Now, my wife says we have to get a turntable:) which I do not want to because I cannot keep up buying LPs, caring for them, storing them,etc. I have Tidal Hifi. Squeezebox Touch and Chord Mojo DAC with a Class D amp.

I am in search of finding a DAC that can sounds like *that* sound at the dealer with turntable. My wife says to get that sound, I need to get a turntable :) I also have to mention, the turntable was high-end. Not some budget turntable.

I also tried HQPlayer with Roon (both trial version) and did DSD upsampling (my laptop cannot handle more than DSD128). My wife and I could not hear noticable difference except little more detailed sound in DSD but DSD made highs worse we thought. So, DSD did not wow us (maybe even a disappointment) like it did with the sound of a turntable.

So, the classic question goes, do you have any DAC suggestion that sounds like vinyl? :) Budget $1000 used.

Thanks!

 

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RE: Do you have any DAC suggestion that sounds like vinyl? :) , posted on February 13, 2017 at 23:32:29
fmak
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If you can find a Universal Audio 2192 used from your budget....

 

RE: Do you have any DAC suggestion that sounds like vinyl? :) , posted on February 14, 2017 at 00:08:28
soundchekk
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Posts: 1899
Joined: July 11, 2007
Imo asking for a DAC that sounds as flawed as "Vinyl"
drives you into the wrong direction.

You need to ask what's the good part of Vinyl. How can that - whatever it might be - be ported into the digital world.

The 2nd question would be how to get rid of all the flaws/weaknesses in the digital chain first.
My guess - from what I see and assume - you still have many flaws in your system.

People who managed to get the system (not just a single device) right,
do not ask these kind of "Vinyl" questions anymore.

And. No money in the world will get your there! Don't be a fool - as many others over here - and jump from one overpriced DAC to the next. They all have their weaknesses. What they pretty much all have in common. These DACs are standalone devices. Such a device won't make a system.

You're pretty much on your own to get your system right.

From my perspective. It's possible. And it's not even that expensive.
But if you depened 100% on support from others you most probably
will fail.

Good luck with your project.

 

RE: Do you have any DAC suggestion that sounds like vinyl? :) , posted on February 14, 2017 at 06:52:54
ahendler
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Two things
The entry level Audio-GD dac
Get rid of your class D amp and get a tube power amp
Alan

 

Agree with the Tube Amp Suggestion..... That was my first thought.......nt, posted on February 14, 2017 at 07:08:28
Cut-Throat
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nt

Cut-Throat




 

RE: Do you have any DAC suggestion that sounds like vinyl? :) , posted on February 14, 2017 at 07:38:26
el34eh@yahoo.com
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Posts: 640
Location: Michigan
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As someone whom has owned a very nice vinyl collection, whom was later forced to go over to CA as the result of not having a great deal of mobility since 2011, I've come to in many ways respect the sonics of my current PS Audio NuWave DSD DAC, and would've to say from a few ventures to shops which carry more upscale DACs it has become obvious to me not all DACs do DSD 128 or upwards equal.

Yet as someone whom pays attention to what more then a few of my closet friends have been raving about of late........, it appears to be some merit behind them going after the Musical Paradise MP-D2 DAC which you can get a feel for here:

http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=80

And as mentioned above........., I'm not a proponent of D Class amplification either, to my senses there's something lacking in the midband that leaves me emotionally uninvolved......, but maybe I'm just overly biased towards Class A and tube based designs?.

Just food for thought......., as nothing is written in stone. So there's no right or wrong approach, in so much as what suits your budget and ear.

 

Slightly different take, posted on February 14, 2017 at 09:52:20
E-Stat
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When I think of the sonic advantages with the best of my analog recordings, I think in terms of ways to tame digital edge and provide more top end ease and extension.

As a long term Touch user, the first thing I would recommend is replacing the inherently noisy switching power supply wall wart with a linear. I've used a couple of different ones over the years, but just yesterday learned of a pretty inexpensive one. I immediately ordered one to check out. What I've found is that using a linear will reduce a sense of "false brightness" unchecked digital hash can make. Similarly, I would make sure you are using some fashion of power conditioning in your system to reduce unavoidable RFI/EMI garbage on the AC.

To really match the best analog, my experience has been you really need high resolution recordings. Those that were truly mastered or recorded as such and not upsampled Redbook. I would look at the various sources available for 24/96, 24/196 and DSD content that can showcase how good digital can get.

There are a number of modestly priced DACs available today that might outperform your primarily intended for mobile use Mojo. Good luck in your quest!

 

2192... & Metric Halo, posted on February 14, 2017 at 10:11:34
Bill Way
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re 2192
So old, so outdated, out of production... but hard to find because they are still really good, and get snapped up instantly. One of the best.

Metric Halo ULN-2 (or other MH models)
Now about $1200 new. Get a used one. Musical for days, up to 24/96. Great little company to deal with. Budget an additional $600 or so for the field upgrade from FW to USB, which we hope against hope will actually be released this year. You probably won't need the mic preamps, but it you do, they are excellent. The MIO DAW software that works with it is outstanding, either solo or used with Pro Tools, Logic, et al.

WW

"A man need merely light the filaments of his receiving set and the world's greatest artists will perform for him." Alfred N. Goldsmith, RCA, 1922

 

Museatex Melior Bitstream DAC, posted on February 14, 2017 at 11:20:03
Duster
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Posts: 12497
Location: Pacific Northwest
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I fully enjoyed a Museatex Melior Bitstream DAC for a whopping 20 years before I decided to choose a more assertive and dynamic DAC for a computer audio application. Museatex DACs seem to have a cult following, since the vintage DAC presentation tends to sound more like an analog turntable than a cold sounding digital device. Investing in the popular John Wright mods is a very worthwhile thing to do, as well as including an aftermarket audiophile power cord and high-performance I/O audio cables.

See link:

 

RE: Do you have any DAC suggestion that sounds like vinyl? :) , posted on February 14, 2017 at 15:25:34
PAR
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There is no DAC that sounds like vinyl. None.

There are DACs that are magnificent in their own right e.g. dCS Vivaldi - and so they should at their price. But they do their own thing as it is not possible for digital audio to sound just like analogue audio or vice versa.

I suggest that if you can you spend some time listening to state of the art DACS from dCS, Playback Designs, Berkeley Audio Design , EMM labs , MSB etc. You may not be able to afford them but if they do not fulfill your desires then the answer to your question is a simple; no. Then buy a turntable.

 

Thanks!, posted on February 15, 2017 at 00:26:58
KOCA
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Thanks for all your inputs. The funny thing is I agree with almost all of your comments. Getting a Class A amp, getting a tube amp, etc.

I love Class A amps. I used to own one, Aleph 3. Best amp to date, IMO. However, after hearing Class D amps (all Chinese boards) I sort of heard the characteristics of a Class A amps. I thought paying 20 times more for Class A and warming up the house with it was not worth it *that* much. So, I got different digital amps to see how closer I can get to Class A. They all sound good but still not Class A. I got a cheap Chinese tube preamp to try with it and the sound got better. I did not mention my tube preamp because I want to see if I can get the sound I have been looking for without a preamp. Tubes always scare me for some reason:)

Yesterday, I took my Class D amp for some upgrades to this shop. Before any mods, we wanted to listen to it. It was connected directly dCS DAC. The sound was not good at all. I almost changed my mind about the upgrades because no upgrade could help here. Then we connected the amp to a tube preamp (not my Chinese pre) and kept dCS in the setup. The sound changed dramatically! I hope the sound will be even better after the upgrades. After this experience, I am 100% convinced that I need a tube preamp with it.

So, my new plan is to use a tube preamp at all times and see how it is with the Mojo. But in the mean time, listening to available DACs in my system to take the sound even further (if I can) without a preamp.

Thanks again for all the replies.

@E-Stat: The AC adapter you are referring to is 1A. I thought SB Touch requires 2.1A? I may be wrong.

 

RE: Thanks!, posted on February 15, 2017 at 05:57:37
E-Stat
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The AC adapter you are referring to is 1A. I thought SB Touch requires 2.1A? I may be wrong.

It's true the standard SMP unit is 2.1A. I use the EDO app which disables the analog output and I set the screen saver to shut off the display after ten seconds. I've used a 0.8A cell phone battery charger before and it works fine.

My unit arrives Friday and I'll post results. I used to have three of them, one using a Wellborne Labs LPS and a Teradak with the other with a third NIB. I now use a microRendu player in the main system and sold two of the players and power supplies. The Touch in the garage sometimes uses the original PS and sometimes with a 2A battery. I thought for $18, I'd give this new LPS a try.

 

Jameco 5V 1A wallwart linear PSU, posted on February 15, 2017 at 09:26:04
AbeCollins
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I'd be curious to know what you think of that Jameco wall wart linear PSU. Dynobot seemed pretty impressed with it when he stated, "it measures 5.00v with ZERO fluctuation."

I wonder if he actually measured that 5.00v with and without a load. The specs in the datasheet for that PSU are pretty standard fare showing a variance of 5V +/- 0.3V as being within spec for the voltage output. The ripple spec (hum) under load is rated at 250mV (a full 1/4 volt), but that was measured under a 1500mA as best I can tell from the datasheet.




 

Being one who, posted on February 15, 2017 at 10:21:23
E-Stat
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understands hyperlinks(!), I found that document yesterday before ordering. It even provides a circuit diagram and values for the capacitors.

We'll see how well it works out. I don't mind experimenting with cheap options. :)

 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 15, 2017 at 11:20:27
AbeCollins
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We'll see how well it works out. I don't mind experimenting with cheap options. :)

Same here. If it doesn't work out it's not like you're suffering financially and need to put it up on Audiogon! ;-) Or they can always be repurposed.



 

RE: Jameco 5V 1A wallwart linear PSU, posted on February 15, 2017 at 18:37:08
Dynobot
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Hey Abe, that was with no load. I can measure with a RPi attached and report back.
Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth

 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 15, 2017 at 18:38:49
Dynobot
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Tell you what if you guys don't like it...I'll buy it from you.

Just shoot me your paypal email and I will send you the cash.

It's not going to make the sound stage bigger, create more bass, make the vocals jump out etc. As you know, the best gear gets out of the way, so what you should hear is nothing, that is no bad effects associated with bad power.


Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth

 

RE: Thanks!, posted on February 16, 2017 at 05:19:46
neolith
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You didn't mention your speakers. I say this because Class D amps don't always match well with all speakers. In particular because of the design of Class D, speakers that have changes in impedance at the high end will suffer. OTOH, I use a Class D with my Magnepan 3.7i which have a purely resistive load and close to constant impedance and the amp performs great. When I auditioned the speakers at the dealer he connected them to much more expensive Ayre amp, but my Class D that I brought along was noticeably better. It's just like marriage - it's all about synergy and not necessarily about the individuals.



I married the perfect woman. The downside is everything that goes wrong is my fault.



 

I did not mention you are right!, posted on February 16, 2017 at 05:52:48
KOCA
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I have two sets of speakers. Older Audio Note AZ-1 (91db) and I bought the Andrew Jones's Elac Uni-Fi UB5 to sell the AZ-1s. BUT, although I did not give the Elac's enough time, I think I like the AZ-1s better. The sound I get from them is more neutral than UB5s.

I did a test between these speakers back and forth with 5 other family members. The track was Dave Brubeck's Take Five and there is this part where there are drums AND we played this part at least 5 times. Every time, every single of us found the AZ-1s to sound like real drum.

I think sadly (for now at least), I find the UB5s overrated. They are great speakers, don't get me wrong but I was expecting more I think. Yes, they are harder to drive than the AZ-1s but my Class D is around 100wpc at 8 ohms and that is plenty for most speakers around. Even enough for power hungry Magnepans.

 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 16, 2017 at 08:23:01
AbeCollins
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It looks like the RPi has several of it's own onboard regulators for 3.3V, 1.8V, 2.5V derived from the 5v "bulk power" supplied by the wall wart. But it also uses 5v directly in other areas including the USB interface.

The Jameco 5V +/- 0.3V spec isn't that bad for what it is powering (with a preference toward the + side rather than lower). According to the USB spec bus power across VBUS and GND should be a nominal 5V +/- 5%.

The data sheet for the Jameco PSU shows 250mV ripple at 1500mA load which is a greater load than the 1000mA the PSU is rated for so the ripple figure should be lower at lower loads. But 250mV is very high.

RPi Power



 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 16, 2017 at 08:29:59
Dynobot
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Yes I think I mentioned it in another post that people should bypass the miniUSB power input due to the switching regulator in the RPi.

Using the GPIO is the only way to go if you are going to use a linear regulated power supply.


Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth

 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 16, 2017 at 08:39:04
AbeCollins
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One of my 'edits' that I attempted in a previous post didn't get posted so I re-edited and reposted.

Are you talking about using a linear power supply on the GPIO for other devices?


 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 16, 2017 at 08:42:46
Dynobot
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No only for the RPI


Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth

 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 16, 2017 at 09:40:28
AbeCollins
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Hmm, I didn't know you could power it via GPIO.



 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 16, 2017 at 09:49:31
Dynobot
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Yep I only use the GPIO


Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth

 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 16, 2017 at 09:57:36
Dynobot
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These are different RPI that I use around the house.
Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth

 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 16, 2017 at 10:57:54
Dynobot
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When I get home I will test it under load UI see what kind of real world ripple it has....


Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth

 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 17, 2017 at 02:25:46
Mercman
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What are the "bad effects" you are speaking of and how do I identify them? Are they identifiable by listening?

 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 17, 2017 at 03:30:25
Dynobot
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You should be able to elaborate on that better than me, being a reviewer. You come across a lot more hear, including gear designed to mitigate bad effects.

Therefore I ask you to impart your knowledge based on your experience


Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth

 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 17, 2017 at 03:44:50
Mercman
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Let's be straight with each other. You ridicule me if I make comments on how things sound. I'm just trying to figure out how you describe the sound you hear. I'm not trying to be mean to you, I just don't understand how you communicate with other people. Is it all based on particular measurements? John Swenson has commented that it is difficult to predict how an LPS will sound based on measurements.

I am working on a review that will involve the Sonore Signature Power Supply, the Uptone Audio UltraCap LPS-1, the SOtM mBPS-d2s, and the Fidelizer Nikola LPS.

The review will revolve around the SOtM sMS-200.

Again, I'm not looking for an argument. I just don't understand what you are saying.

 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 17, 2017 at 04:00:51
Dynobot
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You asked me what the "bad effects" were.

If you are truly interested I would pose this question to someone of more authority on the matter when it comes to objective, measurable effects, circuity design and electrical properties.

Hopefully you will ask Sonore et.al this same question and post it in your review or here as to educate us on some facts. I understand that some people might try to pick fights, but I'm not, I'd really like to know what they would have to say.

Subjectively speaking, as I am sure you know. Not all people can or will hear the same thing, and some will hear no discernible difference at all...

For me and my ears, bad effects present themselves as harsh sounding high to mid-high frequencies, sound that is not coherent in timber across the frequency spectrum and generally bad sound that makes long listening sessions unbearable.

In summary: Objective answers should come from the highest most credible professional. Subjective answers can be all over the map, due to individual perceptions. And I explained my own personal subjective perception.


Hope that helps - :-)
Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth

 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 17, 2017 at 04:05:42
Mercman
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"For me and my ears, bad effects present themselves as harsh sounding high to mid-high frequencies, sound that is not coherent in timber across the frequency spectrum and generally bad sound that makes long listening sessions unbearable."

"In summary: Objective answers should come from the highest most credible professional. Subjective answers can be all over the map, due to individual perceptions. And I explained my own personal subjective perception."

Thanks for the response.

 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 17, 2017 at 04:23:40
Dynobot
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"John Swenson has commented that it is difficult to predict how an LPS will sound based on measurements."

John is definitely a reputable source in my book. In addition, un-reputable sources ie average music listeners have also echoed this by their own testimony of perceptions. Usually those people are ridiculed and confronted with measurements as proof of their lunacy.

Fact is, yes John Swenson is right. In terms of listening perceptions, measurements alone can not be used as a reliable predictor.

Not to pick a fight. But you can see how fast measurement specs came into play as a predictor of how the Jameco LPS might sound.




Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth

 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 17, 2017 at 04:30:58
Mercman
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I'm sure good measurements are not delitourous to the sound.

 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 17, 2017 at 04:49:34
Dynobot
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Generally speaking I agree.


Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth

 

RE: Do you have any DAC suggestion that sounds like vinyl? :) , posted on February 17, 2017 at 04:49:37
KOCA
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I totally agree. I really do not understand why some reviewers/people give too much importance to the measurements. I am not a person who knows how to read the graphs/measurements. As I stated above, I did not like the DSD sound and as far as I know DSD measures better on paper. I can hear the "better measurements" but I do not like it.

 

RE: Do you have any DAC suggestion that sounds like vinyl? :) , posted on February 17, 2017 at 07:13:14
Dynobot
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I agree that the goal should be to reduce or eliminate if possible the flaws and weaknesses in the digital chain.

The better your digital chain is the less digital it sounds.

With that said, some people do like to 'flavor' their sound. Therefore the suggestion of using Tubes might give them some flavor....however flavor comes at a cost.


Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth

 

I share your observation, posted on February 17, 2017 at 09:57:37
E-Stat
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I experimented quite a bit with both SB Touch and the microRendu player. For me, a better PS reduces a sense of "false brightness" that obscures true resolution.

At first, quiet linears sound almost "dark", but I realize that I am now hearing more of the recording and less of the HF noise. I find that to be true with other power related topics such as dedicated lines, aftermarket power cords and conditioners as well.

 

RE: I share your observation, posted on February 17, 2017 at 10:02:31
Mercman
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I guess we are all on the same page.

 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 17, 2017 at 11:48:42
fmak
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It depends on what and how one measures. Conventional PC type noise figures mean nothing.

 

You really need to stop posting so much..., posted on February 17, 2017 at 12:02:23
Chris Garrett
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we're running out of bandwidth.

Chris

 

RE: I share your observation, posted on February 17, 2017 at 12:06:41
Dynobot
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Yes after cleaning up the power things can seem darker due to less noise and blacker backgrounds. But as you said, after awhile you realize you are actually hearing more.

This is why I tried to start at the outlet and address everything I could [within reason]. Better outlets, Better cords, Regenerated Power, Balanced Power, Isolation, etc. etc.

I've even gone so far as to put the RPI in a Faraday Cage of sorts by the use of double layered Copper Tape inside the metal cases and in the case of my Havana Dac on the inside of the Dac.



Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth

 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 17, 2017 at 12:50:30
AbeCollins
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Not to pick a fight. But you can see how fast measurement specs came into play as a predictor of how the Jameco LPS might sound.

Just to set the record straight, I have no idea how the Jameco wall wart linear PSU will "sound" on an RPi.

I just wanted to point out that just the fact that it is a "linear PSU" means nothing in terms of it's specs. It's specs are just so-so at best. Nothing special. Some people see "linear power supply" and immediately conclude that they must be awesome. Not saying this is you. In fact, there are switching wall wart PSUs with better specs vs the Jameco linear PSU.

How they SOUND and compare in your application, I have no idea.



 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 17, 2017 at 13:05:15
Dynobot
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If you don't use GPIO its going to sound like crap....because as you already pointed out, you will still be using the Internal Regulators.

Didn't mean to throw you under the Bus....:)
Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth

 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 17, 2017 at 13:13:02
AbeCollins
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No bus! Please no bus! Nah, I didn't see it that way.

What puzzles me though is even if you go thru the GPIO, various components on the RPi still require 1.8V, 2.5V, 3.3V, and 5V. So those voltages must come from somewhere and I would guess that those onboard regulators are still in play. That is, unless you provide all of those voltages separately yourself via GPIO. I haven't looked at the GPIO schematic so I really don't know.


 

Cool!, posted on February 17, 2017 at 14:13:59
E-Stat
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Years ago when I lived in Atlanta, an elder in our church worked for Equifax at a large data center there. He asked if I would enjoy a tour and as an IT guy, told him sure. While they used huge Amdahl mainframes at the time, all the incoming data lines were sourced in a small room that was completely lined with copper!

BTW, received the power supply today and it is running the Touch quite nicely. Unit gets warm, but not hot. While it doesn't have the massive amount of filtering (~27000 uF) that the Welborne Labs unit did, first impression is good. Especially given the huge price difference. I think I paid about $250 for the other one.

 

RE: Cool!, posted on February 17, 2017 at 14:26:19
Dynobot
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Thats great.

I think long term listening will prove that the Jameco performs on par with the expensive LPS.

One tip: Find yourself a Ferrite Core to wrap the cord near your RPI.


Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth

 

RE: I did not mention you are right!, posted on February 17, 2017 at 14:49:58
ahendler
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Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
Contributor
  Since:
January 14, 2010
To judge between two speakers listening to one track is really meaningless. It should take a lot of time and many pieces of music to make that determination
Alan

 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 17, 2017 at 14:54:39
Dynobot
Audiophile

Posts: 402
Joined: December 10, 2016
You are right, many different voltages at play.

From what I gather, the regulation occurs at the main miniUSB input and voltages are supplied without further regulation. It would not make sense to regulate the incoming and then regulate the regulated again for each step. This would not only add cost but create a redundant step.

Again from reading the manual and other literature about the RPI all regulation is bypass when the GPIO is used. Therefore, there is a Warning to Not Use GPIO unless the PS is regulated otherwise you might damage the unit.

Don't worry about the Bus, I'm sure you have been run over plenty of times and know how to get out of the way by now.

:-)




Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth

 

Yeah a little over 1 post per year is pushing the limits .......LOL......, posted on February 17, 2017 at 16:11:22
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 11484
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
19 posts in 15 years !

Cut-Throat




 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 17, 2017 at 18:45:20
AbeCollins
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From what I saw in the schematic the RPi takes in regulated 5VDC to power some components but the others are powered by additional regulators that take the 5VDC and regulate it down to 1.8V, 2.5V, and 3.3V. So there are three onboard regulators.

This is a partial schematic from an older RPi but I suspect the newer ones also require multiple voltages.


 

RE: Do you have any DAC suggestion that sounds like vinyl? :) , posted on February 17, 2017 at 19:46:11
milpai
Audiophile

Posts: 586
Location: Ohio
Joined: August 21, 2005
Why would you want pops and ticks in your music? The best you can do is buy the new Sony turntable and convert LPs to DSD. Then play it through a good DSD DAC. That will "make it sound" like vinyl.

 

Yes, a Lampizator will..., posted on February 17, 2017 at 22:03:12
classfolkphile
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Posts: 404
Location: Florida
Joined: December 17, 2002
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  Since:
October 27, 2005
but they're mostly out of your price range. Contact Fred at Lampizator North America and see if he's got a used early Lampi (3 or 4) or a used Amber I, or check the sale sites for same. A new Amber II, which I have, is around/just under $2k. It's really good and very analog sounding. I posted a review here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/827277/lampizator-amber-ii-review

 

RE: I did not mention you are right!, posted on February 17, 2017 at 22:45:41
KOCA
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Location: So. Cali
Joined: March 14, 2003
@Alan: I of course didn't judge with that passage only:) That was one example with the family only.

 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 17, 2017 at 23:57:49
Dynobot
Audiophile

Posts: 402
Joined: December 10, 2016
Thanks for the schematic, now we can know "For Sure" what other regulators are being used. See below data sheets from the manufacture.
Spoiler Alert: Looks like they are Linear Regulated.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The NCP1117 series are low dropout (LDO) positive linear voltage regulators that are capable of providing an output current that is in excess of 1.0 A with a maximum dropout voltage of 1.2 V at 800 mA over temperature. This series contains eight fixed output voltages of 1.5 V, 1.8 V, 2.0 V, 2.5 V, 2.85 V, 3.3 V, 5.0 V, and 12 V that have no minimum load requirement to maintain regulation. Also included is an adjustable output version that can be programmed from 1.25 V to 18.8 V with two external resistors. On chip trimming adjusts the reference/output voltage to within +/- 1.0% accuracy. Internal protection features consist of output current limiting, safe operating area compensation, and thermal shutdown. The NCP1117 series can operate with up to 20 V input. Devices are available in SOT223 and DPAK packages.

Line Regulation for 3.3 V = 0.8mV or 0.0008V

http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=NCP1117

http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/NCP1117-D.PDF
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
LP2980

8.1 Application Information
The LP2980-N is a linear voltage regulator operating from 2.1 V to 16 V on the input and regulates voltages
between 2.5 V to 5 V with 0.5% accuracy and 50-mA maximum output current. Efficiency is defined by the ratio
of output voltage to input voltage because the LP2980-N is a linear voltage regulator.

Line Regulation for ≤ 16 V = 0.7mV or 0.0007V

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lp2980-n.pdf
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`


Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth

 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 18, 2017 at 09:19:55
AbeCollins
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Location: USA
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No spoiler, I realized they were all three terminal linear regulators per the schematic. But I thought your goal was to bypass all the onboard regulators with something better.


 

RE: Being one who, posted on February 18, 2017 at 09:48:59
Dynobot
Audiophile

Posts: 402
Joined: December 10, 2016
That was my goal.

I bypass the switching with something better.

The ones left are linear with 0.8mV and 0.7mv regulation. I can live with that...that is to say my ears are not complaining.

They do have better regulators but I'm not trying to solder something that small...





Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth

 

I wonder, posted on February 18, 2017 at 10:46:59
Dynobot
Audiophile

Posts: 402
Joined: December 10, 2016
how relevant some specs are.

Usually if some is good then more is better...we don't consider how much is enough, just more is better.

Same thing for specs, sure I've seen 0.003mV regulators. Even iFi specs rate the voltage as +/-.5V....which is actually much worse than the RPI internal regulator variance. But still, even if you use a 0.0000001mv regulator how much does the ARM processor pollute the whole system?

Pretty much, you can't obsess over one factor and ignore the whole chain. The RPI's regulators are but one factor in a chain of many many variables.

IMO, better to start with the low hanging fruit. Then work you way systematically and logically into other variables that produce the greatest effect on the whole system.


Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth

 

RE: 2192... & Metric Halo, posted on February 18, 2017 at 13:16:53
Regg
Audiophile

Posts: 47
Joined: June 3, 2009
Recently saw a "legacy" ULN-2 on Reverb for under $500. A steal IMO.

I enjoy my MH box even more with a linear power supply. It's funny that Sonic Studio was re-badging these at one time...mine is labelled "Amarra" and Core Audio recognizes it as "Model Four". Happens to sound great with the Amarra 4 app as well.

 

RE: Do you have any DAC suggestion that sounds like vinyl? :) , posted on February 22, 2017 at 08:22:03
TubeDriver
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Posts: 490
Location: East coast
Joined: February 16, 2007
Nope!

 

+1, posted on February 27, 2017 at 16:09:06
Jim Hodgson
Audiophile

Posts: 368
Location: New York City
Joined: March 9, 2006
I've heard most (maybe all?) of the Museatex DACs (and certainly the Bitstream) ... they're gorgeous. And, I can vouch for their "analog-like" qualities. I could live happily with any of them -- especially with the Wright mods. And if I could find an IDAT-44m -- the one made for car audio that runs (well!) on a car battery -- I'd commit to that without a second's thought.

In addition to the various Museatex models, the OP might search out the DACs mentioned in the following thread -- most of which I've heard and can vouch for as being "analog-like" as well. Personally, I still have and use the Timbre TT-1, which is rightfully in this mix.

Two things, however:

One, if the OP intends to do computer audio right (he mentions a laptop and DSD) with one of these ancient DACs, he is going to be immediately frustrated. These are for folks trying to max out the 16/44.1 experience.

Two, none of these DACs is as satisfying as vinyl -- assuming that one finds vinyl satisfying. Even great digital is a completely different experience no matter how close to vinyl I believe my DAC is.

That said, analog and digital coexist very nicely in a single system for me, and I don't feel any pressure to devote myself wholly, or even significantly, to one or the other. The OP might consider mixing it up?

 

RE: +1, posted on February 28, 2017 at 15:48:48
Duster
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Posts: 12497
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
For my own computer audio application, I have a different take on the matter, since I use the mini-Toslink digital output jack of my iMac computer with a 24/48 output setting via a state of the art Lifatec Silflex Glass Toslink cable, so any conventional DAC can be used. Furthermore, the S/PDIF digital optical output from the iMac is connected to a Monarchy Audio DIP (Digital Interface Processor), which reclocks the digital optical signal, reduces jitter, and converts the signal to either the S/PDIF 75 ohm digital coaxial or AES/EBU balanced digital inputs of a DAC. I'd rather use this more traditional home audio type digital front end configuration than use a multi-function USB computer port with questionable noise issues to feed a USB DAC. I've never been interested in the notion of high-resolution digital audio, so I don't miss using a USB port for audiophile purposes.

 

Got one!, posted on March 2, 2017 at 06:36:22
KOCA
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Location: So. Cali
Joined: March 14, 2003
UPDATE:

Recently, I have purchased a used (of course) Museatex Bitstream! No mods. However, I will not be able to use it until mid April. Cannot wait to hear it! Thanks to all of you for all your suggestions. I will write my thoughts on the Bitstream after I put it in my system. If I can get close to vinyl sound, I will be happy. I am not so sure if I will get the VINYL VINYL sound from my setup. We'll see.

 

RE: Got one!, posted on March 2, 2017 at 13:42:16
Duster
Audiophile

Posts: 12497
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
If you decide not to upgrade the I/O jacks, install a chassis-mount IEC inlet to enable the use of an aftermarket power cord, or do any other mods for your Museatex DAC, I recommend that you at least snip-off the molded AC plug of the stock hardwired power cord, and replace it with an audiophile-quality AC plug, which tends to be a very easy DIY project for end users to do by themselves. Also, the Museatex DAC is very sensitive to audio cables including most importantly the choice of S/PDIF digital cable.

 

RE: Do you have any DAC suggestion that sounds like vinyl? :) , posted on March 13, 2017 at 22:28:01
DHT 4 ME
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Posts: 549
Location: So Utah
Joined: November 9, 2005
I have heard a many many DAC's and worked in a high end shop for years. The newest DAC's have a tighter, leaner and clean sound vs vinyl and are moving away from the continuousness that LP has. The closest to analog that I have experienced is the better implementations of the Ultra Analogue DAC chips. It has the atmospheric bubble, tone color and timbre that good TT's will get and seems to be missing from the linear more sterile sound of more modern DAC's.
Analogue may not be the the ideal that new designs aim for but it is an ideal that resonates with me. I have UA DAC's , pcm1704 and AKM chip DAC's currently and have used some phenomenally expensive units as well as the Sabre. Like many audiophiles had multiple tone arm/cart combos and would spin certain things on one or the other, I have a soft spot for multiple DAC's.
Robert
www.Robert-Park.com

 

RE: Do you have any DAC suggestion that sounds like vinyl? :) , posted on March 14, 2017 at 05:34:22
Mr_Steady
Audiophile

Posts: 945
Location: North Florida
Joined: August 19, 2014
Thanks Robert. I'm going to research the Ultra Analog DAC chip you mentioned. Have you heard the MSB Analog DAC? What's your opinion of it?

Thanks,

------------------------------------------------------------
Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!

 

RE: Do you have any DAC suggestion that sounds like vinyl? :) , posted on March 22, 2017 at 05:56:35
Pondfish
Audiophile

Posts: 640
Location: Massachusetts
Joined: January 19, 2002
great response....

 

Bitstream is the best DAC I have ever heard, posted on April 7, 2017 at 03:52:43
KOCA
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Location: So. Cali
Joined: March 14, 2003
I cannot believe how good Bitstream is. Frankly, I did not think I would have this much of an improvement in my system. The instruments sound like how they are supposed to. So real. The vocals are smooth, romantic. Everything is more detailed yet not bright. You can listen to music for hours with this DAC. Very organic, very analog like. Sounding almost like LP.

The good news is my wife who has better ears than me thinks the same. So, this is not only my ears :)

I do not think I want another DAC. This is it for me.

 

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