Oooooh! New Mahler 3rd from Fischer and Channel Classics

RE: Oooooh! New Mahler 3rd from Fischer and Channel Classics, posted on March 13, 2017 at 19:17:22
kitch29	Began listening to it today after reading this. Itunes has Gilbert/NYPO and Chailly/Concertgebouw. Tried the first movement of each and settled on Chailly. Gilbert's kinda milquetoasty.

RE: Oooooh! New Mahler 3rd from Fischer and Channel Classics, posted on March 13, 2017 at 19:22:22
jdaniel@jps.net	I used to have Chailly's on SACD and recall that it's spectacularly recorded and the Concertgebouw is of course a great Mahler orchestra. That was back when Sony allowed companies to use their DSD technology for free IIRC. Can't believe it's been 15 years!

RE: Oooooh! New Mahler 3rd from Fischer and Channel Classics, posted on March 15, 2017 at 14:24:41
pbarach Audiophile Posts: 3306 Location: Ohio Joined: June 22, 2008	I have the Chailly on SACD. I have never understand why people think the sound is so wonderful; in multichannel, it seemed very muddy and with poor imaging. I know the Amsterdam Concertgebouw is an echoey hall when empty, but I've put the recording away and stuck with the excellent Haitink/RCO performance from the Kerstmatinee box set in preference to Chailly's.

RE: Oooooh! New Mahler 3rd from Fischer and Channel Classics, posted on March 15, 2017 at 18:01:03
jdaniel@jps.net	I was a two channel guy and recall the sound being very "Concertgebouw-ish." Glowing, plush and resonant. (And long before DSD.) Add to that the Decca FFRR sound.... A conductor friend of mine says they hang a heavy curtain midway in the hall when recording.

I actually like that Chailly/RCOA Mahler 3rd on SACD (still have it), posted on March 15, 2017 at 17:32:55

Chris from Lafayette
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But I wonder if Chailly will get to complete his Mahler cycle with the LGO (on blu-ray video) before Nelsons takes over in 2018. I don't think he's done the Third or the First yet in this new cycle. So far, I really like a lot of things connected with the new cycle, including the sound quality (24/48 PCM IIRC), which I wouldn't describe as muddy at all. In fact, I've found the Chailly/LGO blu-rays in this newer Mahler series to be well engineered across the board. (I have symphonies 2, 4, 5, 6, 8 and 9.)

Of course, I know you're aware of how DSD tends to smooth off the natural edges of the sound, so that deficiency could be a factor in your disappointment in Chailly's RCOA SACD. . . ;-)

Bernstein, posted on March 13, 2017 at 18:06:28
briggs Audiophile Posts: 1674 Location: Connecticut Joined: April 16, 2002	Might I put in a word for the now fifty-some year old Bernstein recording? It was my introduction to this work, and still seems very fine to me.

Yes! One of my best thrift scores was a nice Columbia stereo 6 eye gatefold of that one, posted on March 13, 2017 at 18:44:22
jdaniel@jps.net	Nice bass drum whaps at the beginning, too. Columbia did a good recording job on that one.

May 5th Release According to Amazon, posted on March 12, 2017 at 16:49:06

Sibelius
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I'll give it a go. I've got his 1, 2, 4 (Miah Persson is ravishing in that one), & 5. My favorite is Boulez/Vienna with Ann Sophie von Otter. Yeah, I know he doesn't get much respect here, don't care.

Release Date

This is the Alpha and Omega of the Mahler 3rd, posted on March 12, 2017 at 16:38:08
Newey Audiophile Posts: 537 Location: Chicago Joined: December 26, 2012	But, screw that. We need sensibleness. Mahler - defanged. Tamed. Filtered. Suburbanized. We need that. We need that now. Severius! Supremus Invictus

The Horenstein is very good, but IMHO Adler takes it to a whole new level. nt, posted on March 13, 2017 at 08:39:56
jdaniel@jps.net	.

Adler is on his way to my house!, posted on March 15, 2017 at 18:26:31
TGR Audiophile Posts: 3002 Location: No. California Joined: March 22, 2004	John, I will let you know what I think.

That's awesome!, posted on March 15, 2017 at 21:12:09
jdaniel@jps.net	#1, I hope the grading is accurate, though Harmonia Mundi's tend to be well taken care of #2, forgive the few instrumental flubs, do some yoga, observe a 12 hour fasting on political discussions, turn phone off, internet off, lights off. Glass of wine OK. #3, Crank it up. The mono sound is amazing. The sense of wonder and discovery is palpable. The 3rd was still and oddity back then.

I've never been able to warm up to the Horenstein M3, posted on March 13, 2017 at 13:56:43
Russell Audiophile Posts: 2831 Location: San Francisco, California Joined: February 24, 2001	And I've given it several tries over the years. Not sure what it is, but it has just never clicked with me. I'm still liking very much the Gilbert/NYP live recording (in excellent 96/24 sound). The MTT/SFS sounds fabulous in a DSD download (maybe the best sounding M3 out there), but MTT's too fussy for my tastes. Russell

Will put Gilbert on my list. I get what you're saying about MTT, but his Adams disc is a blast. Nt, posted on March 13, 2017 at 14:00:27
jdaniel@jps.net	I see NYPO Live has quite a few issues including Sibelius.

RE: Is there enough difference between how these conductors handle notes on the page for contentiousness?(nt), posted on March 13, 2017 at 08:25:37
kitch29

I agree. But chill., posted on March 12, 2017 at 17:55:22

rbolaw

Since it seems to matter so much to you, I'll acknowledge that I agree with you here. The Horenstein Mahler 3rd with the London Symphony is first rate and deservedly highly regarded, in my most humble opinion.

Oddly, shortly before the LSO recorded the Mahler 3rd with Horenstein, they recorded it with Solti for Decca, and that one is on the whole unsuccessful, in fact the only real dud I know of in the Solti/Mahler discography, again in my most humble opinion. Perhaps the decision to have the LSO record it again so soon has something to do with that.

But that's how it works here, Newey. People will agree with you sometimes, other times, not. Either way, it's all good.

Pics of Mahler Horenstein on Unicorn, posted on March 13, 2017 at 11:09:26
TGR Audiophile Posts: 3002 Location: No. California Joined: March 22, 2004	Recording date, listed in the Mahler 3, was 1970. The only date I could find for the Solti/LSO was 1967. He later re-recorded it with Chicago in 1983.

Thanks for the pics, and I think your dates are accurate. nt, posted on March 13, 2017 at 18:42:14
rbolaw

Recording decisions, posted on March 13, 2017 at 09:22:17

TGR
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The decision to record the Mahler 3rd using the LSO by Solti and then Horenstein would not have been one that was taken by the LSO, IMO. In those days, labels made the decisions about what to record with which orchestras and conductors. Decca had an ongoing Mahler program with Solti, some of which was being done with the LSO, and Unicorn was doing some with Horenstein. There wouldn't have been a GM at the LSO who would have said " Gee, we don't like how the Solti recording turned out, so let's recruit another label and conductor to do this." While I don't know the actual sequence of recording dates, there is a chance that Unicorn would have decided to piggyback on the work done by Decca and Solti to prepare this symphony.

It is a shame the Horenstein did not get to record a complete set of Mahler symphonies in good sound with a good orchestra. He is one of the conductors who link back to Mahler himself, the others being Walter, Klemperer, Mengelberg, and Stowkowski (slightly - he was supposedly present at the premiere of the 8th). Of these, he is the only one other than Mengelberg who had all of the symphonies in his repertoire. Walter, for example, never conducted the 6th - it was overly nihilistic for him, and rarely conducted some of the others, including the 3rd.

Yes, very true, posted on March 13, 2017 at 09:34:44
rbolaw	In fact, I have no idea who produced and paid for the Horenstein version. I assume it wasn't Nonesuch, who released it in the US. In those days (circa 1970), Nonesuch was still a very modest budget label.

I believe UK Unicorn issued the original Horenstein 3rd. nt, posted on March 13, 2017 at 09:38:49
jdaniel@jps.net	.

Correct, posted on March 13, 2017 at 10:25:44

TGR
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Both the recordings that ended up on Nonesuch (1st and 3rd) were originally recorded by Unicorn, as was the Nielsen 5th conducted by Horenstein. I have the LPs of the two Unicorn Mahlers. One I found here in the US in a used record and book store in LA, the other I bought from a UK seller. I also have the Nonesuch first - one day I will have to compare the two, to learn if the Nonesuch issues were actually inferior, as many have said. Frankly, though, I was so thrilled as a young man to find so many interesting recordings on Nonesuch.

Do try the Adler, on Harmonia Mundi. I'll refund your money if you don't like it. ; ) nt, posted on March 13, 2017 at 13:00:10
jdaniel@jps.net	N

I'll have a listen, posted on March 13, 2017 at 18:43:35
rbolaw	These recommendations, including yours, are a big reason I'm here.

Please don't encourage him..., posted on March 13, 2017 at 19:23:53
Ivan303 Audiophile Posts: 48887 Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM Joined: February 26, 2001	it will only get worse. ;-) First they came for the dumb-asses And I did not speak out Because I was not a dumb-ass

Did you hear about the new HIP Varese Cycle? , posted on March 13, 2017 at 20:07:55
jdaniel@jps.net	Gotcha!

RE: Var�se, posted on March 13, 2017 at 20:23:05

Ivan303
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"Composers who have claimed, or can be demonstrated to have been influenced by Var�se, include Milton Babbitt, Harrison Birtwistle, Pierre Boulez, John Cage, Morton Feldman, Brian Ferneyhough, Roberto Gerhard, Olivier Messiaen, Luigi Nono, John Palmer, Krzysztof Penderecki, Silvestre Revueltas, Wolfgang Rihm, Leon Schidlowsky, Alfred Schnittke, William Grant Still, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Iannis Xenakis, Frank Zappa and John Zorn."

That's a 'Rogue's Gallery' if there ever was one (OK, excepting Zappa).

First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

Edgard Var

His Poem Electronique is one of the most haunting pieces I know, posted on March 13, 2017 at 21:28:14
jdaniel@jps.net	I OD on electronic music pretty quickly, but the old Columbia Lp with that piece really grabbed me. Great, deep bass too. Can stand up to repeated listening. The challenge was finding lp's with undamaged grooves towards the center; the piece ends with that upward, shrill whistle into infinity. Inner grooves not a good place for a passage like that!

RE: His Poem Electronique is one of the most haunting pieces I know, posted on March 15, 2017 at 08:01:57
oldmkvi Audiophile Posts: 10581 Joined: April 12, 2002	I loved Octandre from that LP. SFS has Am�riques on American Mavericks, great sounding recording. That and recent Debussy sound better than (almost) any other orch recording i have.

RE: His Poem Electronique is one of the most haunting pieces I know, posted on March 15, 2017 at 08:14:24
jdaniel@jps.net	After hearing SFS's wonderful Adams disc, I'm very interested in the Debussy. I just wish I could download "Parfumes" from Iberia first. It's my favorite mov't but some play it sultry and loose and others play it pretty straight-forward. I prefer the former.

RE: Do try the Adler, on Harmonia Mundi. I'll refund your money if you don't like it. ; ) nt, posted on March 13, 2017 at 14:37:02
TGR Audiophile Posts: 3002 Location: No. California Joined: March 22, 2004	Complete satisfaction or your money back, hey? OK, sounds like a deal.

FYI, it's on TIDAL so should cost you nothing..., posted on March 13, 2017 at 13:26:39

Ivan303
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if he has TIDAL.

I'll listen tonight. May already have as it's marked in my 'favorites'.

First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

Let me know what you think!, posted on March 13, 2017 at 13:38:24
jdaniel@jps.net	I especially like the opening primordial soup bit. The chorale climax has an ecstatic sweep much similar to "On the summit" from Strauss' Alpine Symphony. The tymp and brass ending never really does it for me.

Don't have TIDAL, posted on March 13, 2017 at 13:35:13
TGR Audiophile Posts: 3002 Location: No. California Joined: March 22, 2004	And probably never will. Subscription service, right? Out of curiosity, what does it cost, and what are the equipment requirements?

Close to $20 a month..., posted on March 13, 2017 at 17:23:28

Ivan303
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I run it using a laptop with their player software installed (OS-X or Win).

I run it out the USB port of my laptop to what I consider a top quality DAC(Audio-GD Master 11 DAC/Headphone Amp) for most listening but I also have it on my SONOS and on my main system via a Mac Mini and another Audio-GD Ladder DAC (Master-7).

Stop by sometime and compare your favorite CDs with what streaming sounds like. I live out at Ocean Beach in the Outer Sunset. There is not that much difference when using a decent computer and a really good DAC.

OK, maybe my CD player sucks, there is always that risk. ;-)

But streaming is so much a part of my musical discovery process that I also subscribe to QOBUZ which has an even larger obscure classical catalog, and sounds just as good if not better?

And I used to have Deezer Elite, another 16/44.1 streaming service as well as ClassicsOnlineHD before they closed it down.

No Cable TV and I get SONIC Gigabit Internet for just $40 a month so I'm $$ ahead of most folks.

First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

RE: Mahler 3rd..., posted on March 12, 2017 at 15:35:33

Ivan303
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My favorite is above.

Author below seems to agree. ;-)

First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

The Mahler Symphonies A synoptic survey by Tony Duggan Sy

Music Lane

Oooooh! New Mahler 3rd from Fischer and Channel Classics

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