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Enormous Harmonic Distortion with Magnepan

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Posted on October 3, 2023 at 04:37:21
vandendungenmuziek@kpnplanet.nl
Industry Professional

Posts: 38
Location: Nederland
Joined: February 24, 2023
 I was so happy with my refurbished 0.5.
But now I am reading they(and all other smaller ones) have a lot of Harmonic Distortion under 200 Hz. The reason should be much surface area, very low Xmax and very high QTS.
I was very happy with my 0.5 till now? The bass sounds a little shy but the bass from a 1.5 I borrowed from a friend sounds better for me. So I was thinking about buying a 1.6 or an 1.7
But there are people here who can hear the mentioned bass problems. I am not able to hear these problemens. Maybe because I am just a professional Conservatory musician, teacher and conductor with 45 years of experience.
Who can tell me what is going on here?

 

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RE: Enormous Harmonic Distortion with Magnepan, posted on October 3, 2023 at 17:09:54
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12320
Joined: February 9, 2010
 All woofers create harmonic distortion, a good deal of it. It's caused by nonlinearities of various kinds. There's no such thing as a perfect spring, or a perfectly uniform magnetic field. The lower the frequency, the more air the speaker has to push, and speakers become less linear as they reach the limits of their travel. The diaphragm in a .5 is smaller than the diaphragm in a 1.x, so it has to travel further to produce the same bass level.

But -- if you can't hear it, why worry about it?

Not all distortion is audible and of the distortion that is, not all of it is annoying.

Some of it can actually be rather pleasing, e.g., second harmonic can add richness to the sound. This should hardly be surprising, since musical instruments generate harmonic distortion up the wazoo -- it's one of the things that gives them their characteristic timbre.

You could learn to identify the distortion easily enough -- that kind of analytical listening is a skill -- but then it would just annoy you, because a little bell would be going off in your head saying, "That's distortion" and something that hadn't bothered you would begin to.

So I wouldn't worry about it. The move to a 1.x is a significant upgrade, though, for a number of reasons beyond lower distortion. I'd just look at it in a positive way -- you're getting better sound! The bigger the Maggie, the deeper the bass, and the cleaner it sounds.

 

RE: Enormous Harmonic Distortion with Magnepan, posted on October 3, 2023 at 17:47:09
Analog Scott
Audiophile

Posts: 9752
Joined: January 8, 2002
 I certainly appreciate any audiophile who wants minimal harmonic distortion in their speakers. But if you are going to have it anywhere the bass is the best place

 

RE: Enormous Harmonic Distortion with Magnepan, posted on October 4, 2023 at 14:16:05
George S. Roland
Audiophile

Posts: 1428
Location: N W Pennsylvania
Joined: March 20, 2004
 I sympathize with you, but I think what is going on here is that you have read something that criticizes your equipment and it has thrown your confidence in your Maggies for a loop.

Listen to yourself...you said you like the sound of your speakers (stated twice) you cannot hear the "distortion" that is claimed in the article(s) you have been reading. Relax and enjoy your speakers. Don't spend any more time fretting over some article(s). Listen to some enjoyable music instead.

Many audiophiles, and I have to include myself here, are too easily influenced by articles. I happen to be a Quad electrostatic speaker enthusiast. I read all the articles and reviews which said--they have no bass, they can't play loudly enough, etc. So I went and listened to a pair. Two things were immediately apparent--they played much louder than I ever listen and they have a unique bass. It is quick, clean and fits seamlessly with the rest of the signal. I bought them on the spot. I have read some scathing opinions of them here and there, but no matter.

As has been said, you will get a bit better clean bass from 1.6s or 1.7s, but they cost more and are large and imposing in a room. I had two pairs of 1.6s at different times. I thought they were wonderful speakers.

Good luck!

 

RE: Enormous Harmonic Distortion with Magnepan, posted on October 4, 2023 at 14:48:17
vandendungenmuziek@kpnplanet.nl
Industry Professional

Posts: 38
Location: Nederland
Joined: February 24, 2023
 I just couldn't believe what I heard and read. I have so much experience with live acoustic instruments. For me Magnepans let hear a lot of more detail than other speakers. Due to the fact they are so fast. And that should not be oke!? That sounded so strange for me. But I can relie on my own ears to judge hifi equipment.
I drive used Mercedes for many years. Maybe there are also people who say that are bad cars.
Back to Magnapan. I think a good second hand 1.6 would be a great choice for me.
Maybe I go listening to a 1.7 (not the i-series) this weekend.
Kind regards,
Wil

 

RE: Enormous Harmonic Distortion with Magnepan, posted on October 5, 2023 at 01:23:35
FX35
Audiophile

Posts: 150
Joined: March 6, 2020
 Good reply's here, absolutely agree.

1.6 or 1.7s?
That's a no brainer, get the 1.6, the 1.7 is no improvement, more of a step back, especially in the lower frequencies, which has been explained in prior posts.

 

RE: Enormous Harmonic Distortion with Magnepan, posted on October 5, 2023 at 02:18:31
vandendungenmuziek@kpnplanet.nl
Industry Professional

Posts: 38
Location: Nederland
Joined: February 24, 2023
 A good second hand 1.6 costs here about 800 euro's. In the Netherland are a lot of taxes. Don't forget the shipment costs. The European distributer has to make money. The Dutch distributer also. And de retailer/shop.
The 1.7i f.i. costs here 4500 euro a pair. That's $ 4700.


I also bought second hand: Spectral pre amp. Ayre V6 power amp. Weiss dac.
Sphinx phono amp.
The only new was the Kuzma turntable with VanDenHul the Frog.

 

+1 (nc), posted on October 8, 2023 at 13:29:05
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12320
Joined: February 9, 2010
 .

 

RE: Enormous Harmonic Distortion with Magnepan, posted on October 11, 2023 at 09:49:54
slbenz
Audiophile

Posts: 541
Location: CA
Joined: October 11, 2003
 I have owned the .5 and 1.5 Magnepans and never experienced what you described. The 1.5 just by their increased size over the .5 has more bass but I always had a Velodyne HGS-12 Series II connected and felt it equalized the two speakers for bass.

 

RE: Enormous Harmonic Distortion with Magnepan, posted on October 11, 2023 at 23:48:55
vandendungenmuziek@kpnplanet.nl
Industry Professional

Posts: 38
Location: Nederland
Joined: February 24, 2023
 I am happy with so much positiv reactions.

 

RE: Enormous Harmonic Distortion with Magnepan, posted on October 20, 2023 at 17:02:13
DrChaos
Audiophile

Posts: 2062
Location: San Diego
Joined: July 13, 2009
 the harmonic distortion is there but only for bass frequencies, and only at loud volumes. And it won't be that perceptible (2nd and 3rd order mostly) because physical bass instruments do exactly the same thing at higher amplitudes for exactly the same reason of nonlinear elasticity. A tiny amount of 7th and 9th harmonic distortion at 2 kHz is far far more annoying and audible to the ear than 2nd harmonic at 200 Hz off a 100 Hz fundamental---it will sound just slightly more 'full' and less low timbre.

And yes, Magnepans are much clearer and more natural in mid frequencies (where the music is) than most conventional speakers and their large area projects the sound naturally like acoustic instruments.

It's not surprising that musically trained/attuned people used to natural acoustic instruments often really like magnepans. I do too for the same reason.

If you want to improve the bass the thing is to have a high quality DSP system (Anthem, Dirac or RoomPerfect algorithms, not low level receivers) and send lowest bass to a *sealed* subwoofer and the rest from 70-80 Hz up to the Maggies.

That will just increase the 'foundation'. Almost all the musical sound will still come from the planars.

 

RE: Enormous Harmonic Distortion with Magnepan, posted on October 21, 2023 at 03:21:12
vandendungenmuziek@kpnplanet.nl
Industry Professional

Posts: 38
Location: Nederland
Joined: February 24, 2023
 Thank you college.

The friend wil collect his 1.5 here tomorrow. Although I think it needs a new filter, you can hear they go deeper in the low frequencies.
So I intend to sell my .05 and look for a used 1.6.

A friend who is a pro reviewer mentioned ATC as the best brand. So I listened these week to the ATC 40 without build in amp. I must say these are very good speakers. But if I close my eyes my Maggies .05 sound more like the musicians are standing before me in the room.

 

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