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Tri- and Quad - amping MG 3.6 + OB subs

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Posted on August 30, 2023 at 01:59:25
triamp
Audiophile

Posts: 780
Location: USA
Joined: August 6, 2008
 I've got a pair of 3.6's that I've triamped with DEQX for some years. a year (or is it two???) I added a pair of dual 12-inch Rhythmik servo open baffle subs, using a second DEQX to provide the crossover and correction. It's a pretty complex lash-up, but it works quite well; the sound is about as good as any I've heard.

Today I placed an order for a DEQX Pre-8, which is a single, improved unit that will do 4-way speaker correction and crossovers, including advanced linear phase crossover and so on. It's also a streamer / Roon endpoint, has a phono preamp that is listed as a "Dynavector phono preamp" which I don't really understand but maybe it was designed by Dynavector; once I get the thing I'll report more on that and of course I will note the special techniques I'll be using to create the speaker correction measurements, as this is somewhat difficult with large planars like Magnepans.

DEQX is currently doing a preview program, which I signed up for long ago, and the new-generation DEQX's are really not on the market yet. I paid a deposit and they are now building the unit, balance due upon shipment.

The DEQX PDC 2.6 that I've been using for about 15 years with my 3.6's has made such a difference with my setup, that I'm really looking forward to the advanced features of the new-generation unit. The software in the DEQX's is arguably the best speaker correction (frequency response, phase, group delay) and room correction algorithm solution around.


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Science doesn't care what you believe.

 

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RE: Tri- and Quad - amping MG 3.6 + OB subs, posted on August 30, 2023 at 11:59:57
emailtim
Audiophile

Posts: 5257
Joined: July 2, 2017
 Triamp,

I have had a DEQX (HDP-3) for a long time as well and upgraded it over time. I can honestly say, using an external multi-channel DAC and PC software far exceeds the sound and capabilities of the old DEQX and doesn't tie you to a single source hardware and software supplier.

I stopped upgrading it when I caught DEQX in a misleading marketing gimmick. They advertised "supporting" high resolution audio to sell the "upgrade".

When I specifically asked them if their algorithms were using higher precision math, the response was 'we "accept" higher resolution streams'. When pushed further, they said it would be cost prohibitive to rewrite their software.

Their new high-resolution support was simply placing a software down-converter on the input (neutering any benefits of high resolution content). Very deceiving tactic and not worth the cost of admission. That is when I decided to look into other options.

My 8-channel correction filters are made with 128-bit floating point math and then down converted to 64-bit. The PC supports much more capable filters including steeper low frequency filters that the DEQX can not (DEQX runs out of taps and processing power). It also supports the DAC's native high resolution without downconverting. That is what is currently available with PC software and has been for a while.

There are multiple DACs to choose from, various operating systems, convolution engines and numerous filter creation software options that can be mixed, matched and individually upgraded over time that support minimum phase, linear phase, mixed phase, XOs and DRC.


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2022/03/30 Historical Records CENSORED

 

and the software?, posted on August 30, 2023 at 20:58:38
Jon L
Audiophile

Posts: 5996
Joined: April 6, 2000
 and hopefully not too expensive..

 

RE: and the software?, posted on August 30, 2023 at 22:10:43
emailtim
Audiophile

Posts: 5257
Joined: July 2, 2017
 Software can be done in all free Open Source/Shareware/Donationware or any combination of free and pay including the OS (Mac, Windows, Linux). The only pay software I am using is JRiver Media Center for the player and library management.

Suitable used PC's can be had for as little as $100 or your old decommissioned units. I am using a decade old IvyBridge machine updated with NVMe drives.

Multi-channel DACs can range from a few hundred to a few thousand.

This is the 8-channel DAC I am using for @ $1,200 with 118dB SINAD. Much cleaner and cheaper than the HDP-3 costing multiple times more.

Time, tech and options march on.


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2022/03/30 Historical Records CENSORED

 

RE: Tri- and Quad - amping MG 3.6 + OB subs, posted on August 31, 2023 at 01:58:24
triamp
Audiophile

Posts: 780
Location: USA
Joined: August 6, 2008
 The older DEQX's have much less capable DSP than this new generation- they are based on early 2000's DSP and DAC, although the "high resolution" upgrades they offered added improved opamps and capacitors in the analog stages, as well as beter - linear- power supplies. This made them sound better, but it did not allow them to process high bitrate / 24-bit width signals.


What algorithm do you use with a PC and external DAC to correct for group delay? I wasn't aware that there was a PC based solution.
Science doesn't care what you believe.

 

RE: and the software?, posted on August 31, 2023 at 02:19:15
triamp
Audiophile

Posts: 780
Location: USA
Joined: August 6, 2008
 What software do you use to automate measurement and derive the correction filters? Using something like JRIVER would end up being quite manual and much more seat-of-the pants, I would think. In addition, you can't do linear phase crossovers natively in Jriver, so how could yo implement that?

And I think that if you are doing your DSP in a PC or Mac that you'd end up with much higher latencies than using hardware DSP like SHARC, which wouldn't allow for the picture to match the sound if your stereo is also used for A/V.

The old DEQX hardware did not allow more than 48 dB/octave crossovers below about 100 Hz. (200? I don't recall) But the new DEQX hardware that is just being released can do 200 dB/octave down to 30 Hz. None of this new DEQX hardware is available n the market yet, and beta users like me will only be getting their hands on the first units in a few months, so whatever experience folks have with the old DEQX gear is not relevant to the new stuff. The old gear was very good "back in the day" but of course there are methods that are more capable now than the old DEQX's. But the new units are more powerful, and the analysis algorithm is also much more powerful and is done using cloud-based systems- the analysis couldn't be run on a PC or Mac, it takes datacenter iron.


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Science doesn't care what you believe.

 

RE: and the software?, posted on August 31, 2023 at 10:09:18
emailtim
Audiophile

Posts: 5257
Joined: July 2, 2017
 There are a bunch of software options out there. I chose SW that doesn't tie me to a specific piece of hardware because it would lock me back into a single hw vendor.

I don't know why you say JRMC doesn't support linear phase filters. JRMC supports channel mapping and up to 64-bit linear and minimum phase filters in their internal convolution engine. JRMC also supports 64-bit VST3 plugins.

Here are some SW options to choose from:

DIRAC, Accurate, Audiolens, DRC-FIR, REW, RePhase, CamillaDSP, BruteFIR, HQPlayer plus other commercial pay options including pro-audio (recording studio sw) packages that I haven't personally used. I am currently using REW, RePhase and a modified DRC-FIR package. Wouldn't mind trying Accurate because it is very well regarded.

Another reason why I disliked DEQX is because their software is limiting. It only allowed you to do what it limits you to. Some will see that as beneficial training wheels, but like training wheels, they are quickly outgrown. Try to implement a Haas Kicker or a Digital/Virtual Double Bass Array in DEQX's software.

Here are 12 convolvers:

JRiver MC, Acurate, Dephonica, EKIO, HQPlayer, Hang Loose (by Mitcho), CamillaDSP, BruteFIR, EqualizerAPPO, Roon, Audiolense, DIRAC Live.



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2022/03/30 Historical Records CENSORED

 

Another all-in-one solution - dspNexus DSP Audio Processor, posted on August 31, 2023 at 15:30:06
emailtim
Audiophile

Posts: 5257
Joined: July 2, 2017
 If you are looking for a turnkey all-in-one product, you might want to check out DSP's dspNexus line.

Their new line has swappable upgrade modules, AKM DACs and Analog Devices SHARC DSP chips.

"...

What about a new improved dspNexus?....

Well, we did claim that we use the best ADCs and DACs, "Ferrari" like DSP, etc. Someday, this won't be true. We all know we can only use the best available at a point in time.

So here is the good news: The ADC, DACs, and DSP are all implemented with plug-in modules! If we have a newer, shinier option, you will probably be able to upgrade your dspNexus. Software upgrades to the DSP, display, and RPi4 are all done without opening the box.
..."

It comes with a licensed version of DSP Concepts' Audio Weaver software.

https://w.dspconcepts.com/audio-weaver

Software Demo Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP-ajIDF0Qk

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2022/03/30 Historical Records CENSORED

 

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