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Quad ESL-57 plus (Swarm) subwoofer with high pass

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Posted on June 26, 2023 at 18:51:19
Tubenstein
Audiophile

Posts: 247
Joined: August 5, 2011
 What do you think of adding subwoofer to Quad ESL-57 and crossover at 80Hz @12db for high pass?

And the subwoofer would be in Swarm configuration crossover at 80Hz @ 24db for low pass.

The upcoming NAD M66 has 4 subwoofer outputs per channel.

Any comments?

 

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RE: Quad ESL-57 plus (Swarm) subwoofer with high pass, posted on June 27, 2023 at 05:29:00
JimL
Audiophile

Posts: 3773
Location: New Mexico
Joined: November 24, 2002
 Well, one possible issue is adjusting the level between the Quad (which has a figure 8 radiation pattern), and the Swarm subwoofer, which has an omnidirectional radiation pattern. If the on-axis SPL of the Quad is the same as the Swarm, the omnidirectional SPL level of the Quad is about 4-5 dB lower than the Swarm.

 

RE: Quad ESL-57 plus (Swarm) subwoofer with high pass, posted on June 27, 2023 at 09:55:27
louie3
Audiophile

Posts: 941
Location: Signal Mountain, TN
Joined: January 14, 2006
 No matter what crossover you use, you will "hear" it, the 57s are that transparent. I have tried several electronic crossovers and decided after spending a lot of money on the crossovers that no crossover sounds best to me. I run the Quads full range, use Dayton sub amps with their own built in crossover to run dipole subs (2 12s in each box) crossed at 60 Hz. Sounds decent.

 

RE: Quad ESL-57 plus (Swarm) subwoofer with high pass, posted on June 27, 2023 at 17:39:30
triamp
Audiophile

Posts: 780
Location: USA
Joined: August 6, 2008
 Probably a good idea to use open baffle subs with ANY panel speaker. And, yeah, using a high-pass may reduce transparency from the venerable ESL's. If I were going to use subs with my ESL-57's, I would use a very steep low pass crossover with the sub woofers, maybe at 45 Hz or 40 Hz, just to add a "foundation" of low bass under the ESL's.

I have ESL 57's but I don't have subs with them. In a larger room I also have tri-amped MG 3.6's, plus four 12-inch open-baffle servo subs below 45 Hz 48 dB/octave xover. I use a pair of DEQX's for crossover and correction.


Science doesn't care what you believe.

 

right now I'm using a semi Swarm with my 57's and, posted on June 27, 2023 at 18:00:52
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 9312
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000



you also have to consider the impedance if the 57's at the crossover frequency because of the transformer. It's complex and notice the impedance at low frequencies >



 

RE: Quad ESL-57 plus (Swarm) subwoofer with high pass, posted on June 27, 2023 at 20:45:14
hahax@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 4183
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 22, 2006
 The main weakness of the 57s are their handling of dynamics. Your idea of adding subs will make a very significant improvement in their dynamic capabilities. If you employ a good electronic crossover there should be minimal loss of the 57s significantly good attributes and the dynamic improvements will be more than worth it.

 

RE: Quad ESL-57 plus (Swarm) subwoofer with high pass, posted on June 28, 2023 at 07:20:36
sailor321
Audiophile

Posts: 635
Location: maryland
Joined: August 26, 2004
 I have a pair of 1962 Quad ESL and use them with a pair of Janis W1s.
When I use the subs I set my Marchand xover at 45hz for the subs and let the 57s run at their natural full range. I find when I use the high pass filter on the 57s I lose some of the magic of the 57s so I don't. In fact, after rebuilding the 57s four years ago and following a white paper found on the internet that cautioned against stretching the dust covers on the bass panels too much I get satisfying dynamics without the subs.
So it goes.........

 

RE: Quad ESL-57 plus (Swarm) subwoofer with high pass, posted on June 30, 2023 at 16:52:56
6bq5
Audiophile

Posts: 4209
Location: SF Bay
Joined: August 16, 2001
 I would adjust the X-over frequency to 100Hz
there is a resonance at ~90Hz, that you want to rid your system of- and the 80Hz cutoff is too low-

the other comments about dynamic range and getting the sound to 'seamlessly' integrate are still valid -
You will need to have a level control on the Sub -
and you may need to play with placement considerably-
Happy Listening

 

RE: Quad ESL-57 plus (Swarm) subwoofer with high pass, posted on July 2, 2023 at 08:02:16
kentaja
Manufacturer

Posts: 4551
Joined: March 26, 2001
 A 90Hz resonance is an indication of a worn out pair of Quads the film in the bass panels has dried up and become brittle over the decades. The correct resonance should be in the 50-60Hz range.

It doesn't matter how well they may work or maintained or ones subjective observations all original Quads still sporting their original panels are way out of spec. I've seen panel resonances on these types of speakers as high as 110Hz.

If one had the last pair ever produced they would now be approaching 40 years in age. Most of them are now approaching 60 years in age. Given the type of film that was originally used this rising resonance is inevitable.

 

RE: Quad ESL-57 plus (Swarm) subwoofer with high pass, posted on July 6, 2023 at 12:31:23
6bq5
Audiophile

Posts: 4209
Location: SF Bay
Joined: August 16, 2001
 Perhaps I misspoke-
There is a bump at 90Hz with the Quad '57 to 'present' more bass - by using a crossover frequency of 100Hz, you can get a sub to blend better, and remove the bump in output from the quad.

I have not tracked the phenomenon that you described-


Happy Listening

 

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