Magnepan LRS

I have had my LRS's now for about 6 months. I also have a ML depth sub.

A new room, 12x17, and I happen to enjoy the sound of my old friend, an Audiolab 8000a. Just today I finally got around to giving the current arrangement a real test. Led Zeppelin's "How the West was Won," disc one.

They played loud. I was hitting 90db peaks. It was thrilling. I do not use the word thrilling much.

I have a tiny quiet computer fan to suck air through the Audiolab when I crank it. I can tell, it was thrilling, but that is really all I can ask of that little amp (55 wpc)and really, it is asking too much.

However, 95% of my listening is at 70db or maybe 75db peaks. My ears hear the music better, and that is the same level I would use when I used the BAT amp, too. I am a Row K kind of person.

So, ask yourself how loudly you want to drive them? I think if I listened loudly, I would plan on moving up the line, absolutely. Absolutely.

But at 75db peaks? In my room, with the sub, it is totally absorbing and lovely. They are a perfect scale speaker for me in this room.

/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends

what farfeched doesn't say, posted on February 24, 2021 at 04:25:31

Story
Audiophile

Posts: 10453
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000

and I will, is how wise his approach for volume is. If you read some of the posts here (and the rest of AA) you might think that some of the inmates have hearing problems because of the SPL volume they listen to 'because that's the way you do it if you are a true audiophile'.

If you follow this concert level hogwash you will punish your ears to do it, and as you grow older you have to turn it up even more for the same effect. It's a bunch of crap. Protect you precious hearing.

Example - don't use a vacuum 1st thing in the morning and when you do vacuum use ear plugs. Sustained levels of any kind of volume will take its toll and you will have tinnitus and hearing loss. Don't find out when its too late to fix it because you can't 'fix it'.

RE: what farfeched doesn't say, posted on February 24, 2021 at 12:17:30

Norman M

Before the era of hearing protective devices, performers like classical music conductors made it part of their careers to stand less than ~10 feet away directly in front of a 125+ member orchestra/chorus rehearsing, performing and recording blockbuster compositions, e.g. Mahler Symphonies. L Stokowski conducted his last commercially released recording in his 95th year and a performance in front of an audience at age 93.
I recall having listened to a Mahler Symphony (in Lincoln Center) whose sound was so overbearingly loud that I found myself reflexively using my hands to cover my ears. Needless to say my listening room is sub-microscopic in size compared to a concert hall but that totality of such sound exposure (in frequency range of the instruments involved) could never take place at home. At least in part that's what made it so desirable. Not to imply that I think it's safe without severe consequence to routinely expose oneself to such loud sound.

RE: what farfeched doesn't say, posted on February 24, 2021 at 09:42:01

farfetched
Audiophile

Posts: 963
Location: Cleveland!
Joined: October 13, 2010

It's true, folks, it's true.

I'm late 50's, 14khz in each ear at *low conversation" levels, and I can hear a wrist watch tick.

if you will forgive the terrible truth:

THIS ONE CRAZY SECRET IS DRIVING AUDIOPHILES CRAZY!

72db is *my jam*. I can near deep into the mix on this rig. Oh baby.

Audiolab was said to be "analytic" -- it's only analytic if you mistake it for an audio steamroller.

Important post, Story. I really wish young audiophiles did not try to replicate EDM.

As Robert Plant once asked, "Does anyone remember Haydn?" (!!!)

/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends

I'm with you. Early 50s, and have to wear earplugs to sleep due to clock 2 rooms over..., posted on February 25, 2021 at 09:48:54
David S. Audiophile Posts: 3552 Location: Mountains of WNC Joined: August 31, 2000	Tick tick tick... And? Hell! I served on submarines. Did everything I could to protect my hearing, and it was WORTH it!

The Navy, your hearing, and you, posted on February 25, 2021 at 11:12:05

farfetched
Audiophile

Posts: 963
Location: Cleveland!
Joined: October 13, 2010

That is truly pro level foresight, friend!

The last time I went to a club with loud music was the mid 2000's, with a friend, we both wore earplugs and it was still too loud. I think it was a small bar/venue, and it was the Dandy Warhols. Or the Brian Jonestown Experience. I get mashed up names mixed up.

Those musicians were not only clearly junked up, but they clearly were seriously deaf. My ears still rang, and I was wearing Mack's highest rating foam plugs, my standard for any loud activity.

I noticed the young bartender not wearing any earplugs. I gave up back in the 80's and 90's trying to warn my friends, watch out for this walkman/discman stuff, you can't overpower a subway, wear plugs. No one listened.

And today, no one listens? It is a health issue we probably should realize is a hazard of modern music. I wonder what the hearing of an average American 57 year old is today? I bet it is heavily notched and barely hitting 10khz.

It is a taboo topic even though it should have its own forum, frankly. Should be a "read this first" forum.

My dad was Navy. Late 50's. Worked the line in San Diego for planes taking off to go wherever. His job was to check to jet engines for any signs of stress or fluid leaks, right before they went into the take-off line to let it rip.

He is 82, his hearing is a bit deaf, and his range is 5khz. But given he looked into jet engines with a flashlight for four years, as the pilot would rev them, and this was well before the era of hearing protection, he is damn lucky. He said they used hand signals because you could not even hear a shouting voice on that line. Even right next to you.

I am guessing submarines are quite clangorous. You are basically inside one giant, sealed machine.

Grats on your foresight :) enjoy the tunes, you old bubblehead!

/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends

RE: Magnepan LRS, posted on February 23, 2021 at 14:30:11
sknarr2084 Audiophile Posts: 4 Location: MO Joined: July 10, 2020	I use a Goldmund Job 225 with my LRS. It's sweet marriage if you can find a Job. Most people won't let go of them. steve

I love my Parasound Halo with my LRSs. Beautiful tone and control. nt, posted on February 22, 2021 at 16:27:54
PhilJ Audiophile Posts: 2826 Joined: January 20, 2002	....

RE: Magnepan LRS, posted on February 21, 2021 at 21:05:37
Mike K Audiophile Posts: 13975 Location: 97701 Joined: September 23, 1999	I use PS Audio M700s to power my LRSes. Plenty of power and reasonably priced too. I am happy. Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone

Odyssey Khartago here...., posted on February 21, 2021 at 13:01:48
Tromatic Audiophile Posts: 2760 Location: Portland Joined: July 27, 2000	As well as three vintage Sansui's (AU-999, 5900, 7900) at around 50 WPC. Much happiness. I'd go for the Cyclops.

RE: Magnepan LRS, posted on February 21, 2021 at 11:07:36
pictureguy Audiophile Posts: 22597 Location: SoCal Joined: October 19, 2008	I have RARELY (like never) heard anyone say a bridged amp sounds better than the 'base' amp. A USED Pass Labs XA30.5 would work wonders and be an end-game solution. Amp has nearly 6db dynamic range but I doubt you'd even get the bias meter ro 'flicker'......indicating class 'A' in full play. Too much is never enough

RE: Magnepan LRS, posted on February 21, 2021 at 17:22:18

Norman M

I used bridged ARC D-76As to drive my Tympani IC's back in the day of their first release (1975?). See now you heard about it. I even biamplified that IC using a ARC EC2A crossover and a GAS Ampzilla (original) on the bottom. (The X-O as shipped to my dealer was intended for this purpose came set at 1000Hz. My dealer was able to set it any frequency ARC afforded.)
Mr. Diller was also present back then so most likely he also heard about if not even suggested it.

RE: Magnepan LRS, posted on February 21, 2021 at 17:43:40
pictureguy Audiophile Posts: 22597 Location: SoCal Joined: October 19, 2008	Always had to be a first. The Ampzilla shook things up. Too much is never enough

RE: Magnepan LRS, posted on February 21, 2021 at 12:09:22
SteveJewels Audiophile Posts: 244 Location: OH Joined: August 11, 2018	A bridged amp can seldom be used with a low impedance speaker. It is usually an either\or kind of thing.

RE: Magnepan LRS, posted on February 23, 2021 at 17:00:22

Norman M

"low impedance" meaning less than 4 ohms? I don't know how to characterize the combined M/T portion of the Tympani IV-A. IIRC their ribbon tweeters alone are 3 ohms. Before buying the Brystons I presently use, I had zero difficulty driving the entire speaker, M/T plus their bass panels using the bridged Adcom GFA-555 (original release, assembled in NJ). Back in the day, ~25 years ago I admittedly was a loudness freak. Nothing bothered the bridged Adcoms, the Tympani, me, or caused blown fuses, not even the (original) CD release of Telarc's 1812 cannons. (Before using IV-As I had Tympani 1Cs and I did set one GFA-555 on fire going up with a flame and smoke, appropriately by the 1812 cannons, however my loudness days are long gone, but something in me misses them. OTOH I have always enjoyed listening to Beethoven's chamber music and continue to do so.)

"IotaVX stack in Bridge mode. 50W (8Ω, 2 channels), 100W (8Ω, 1 channel bridged)100W (4Ω, 2 channels), 180W (4Ω, 1 channel bridged)"

RE: Magnepan LRS, posted on February 23, 2021 at 17:06:03
pictureguy Audiophile Posts: 22597 Location: SoCal Joined: October 19, 2008	You might want to find the Telarc of 'Wellingtons Victory'.......a piece originally scored for some kind of machine somebody was building. But the Telarc recording has LOTS of what may be 12 pounders and even more musket fire...... Too much is never enough

RE: Magnepan LRS, posted on February 21, 2021 at 12:46:47

pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008

True with RARE exception.

the complaints I'm aware of deal with quality of sound which is apparently lacking in a bridged amp.

From what I've seen, Especially with certain listeners, they vastly over estimate how much power they need.

Even my very Low sensitivty panels probably don't use more than 4 or 5 continueous with 10x peaks even when I'm trying to annoy the neighbors. I could probably be happy with my Aspirational amp, the Pass Labs.....XA30.5 which has nearly 6db headroom against the rating.

It cracks me up when somebody had 95db sensitive speakers and 'needs' 600 watts. Makes little or no sense, especially from a 'system' viewpoint.
Too much is never enough

RE: Magnepan LRS, posted on February 21, 2021 at 18:33:27

emailtim
Audiophile

Posts: 5471
Joined: July 2, 2017

"... It cracks me up when somebody had 95db sensitive speakers and 'needs' 600 watts. Makes little or no sense, especially from a 'system' viewpoint. ..."

FWIW, when you take 10dB off the top for FIR filters, that 600wpc amp becomes a 60wpc amp or conversely that 95dB efficient speaker becomes 85dB efficient.

Another point to consider is running the amp within its comfort/lowest noise zone. Amps are not linear in their noise/power/frequency profiles.

Not to mention needing to change amps every time you change speakers, so speaking from a system and longevity prospective, it does make sense.

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2022/03/30 Historical Records CENSORED

RE: Magnepan LRS, posted on February 21, 2021 at 21:11:03

pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008

How did FIR filters get into this?
My panels are low 80s sensitive and I just was looking at Klipsch speakers which THEY call 99db sensitive but Stereophile calls >96db.....Magnpan makes some claim but at 2 watts / 2.83v not the 4 ohm requirement for same 1 watt.

You lost me with the filter thing.....Though I'm used to the 10db / 10x calculation. If my panels were 10db LOWER in sensitivity OR my amps 10db lower in output? I'd be running nearly at redline when turned 'up' on a weekend afternoon...

And I've seen plenty of power / distortion curves @stereophile. Starts at some low level at miniscule power than slopes lower until hitting a null than more sharply upward to amp power limit....Call it 1%, just for the sake of discussion. That may play into 'needed' power for a given speaker in some way.
But it would also seem that distortion is either inaudible or of vanishingly Low audibility run below amp clipping, IF you agree 1% is a reasonable upper limit.

Link to the MiniDSP 'mini' article on FIR vs IIR Filters. All done or CAN be done in the digital domain which starts me asking more questions.
Too much is never enough

https://www.minidsp.com/applications/dsp-basics/fir-vs-iir-f

RE: Magnepan LRS, posted on February 21, 2021 at 21:49:23

emailtim
Audiophile

Posts: 5471
Joined: July 2, 2017

"... How did FIR filters get into this? ..."

Digital speaker and room correction is not uncommon (DEQX has been around for 2 decades) and PC audio has embraced it for quite a while.

I started with Klipsch, 101dB/1 watt/1 meter before going to Maggies. Had to buy stronger amps.

Started with 1.6's, then went to 3.6's. Had to buy stronger amps, AGAIN, then to 20.1's.

If you are familiar with making digital speaker and room correction filters, you will know many use the "cuts-only" method to avoid clipping. The cuts-only method can easily exceed 10dB attenuation to do speaker and room correction. That means your output is 10dB lower (unless you have special premamp hardware to compensate for this and drive your amp(s) accordingly, read: certain pro-gear with more than 4V output).

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RE: Magnepan LRS, posted on February 21, 2021 at 22:04:07

pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008

Thanks for explanation. I was worried for a second until you went for the 'DIRAC solution....

I'm not doing any form of speaker correction.

If you want to REALLY get an eye / ear full? Go to Emotiva Lounge and find the DIRAC thread which is not up to OVER 150 pages. Have a bottle of Aspirin handy!

I did metrology for a living for years. And can assure anyone that the devil in DIRAC and similar sytems is repeataility of measurments. Doing it a different way than you did today is a recipe for confusion and disaster. Those on the DIRAC thread on EMO webiste are really in a state.

For example? Some settings of LFE would appear to apply a 10db BOOST to those frequencies. Some people are hung-up on what I'd consider (for music) massive SubWoofer Overkill.

I get it going from 101db speakers to something in mid / low 80s. Makes PERFECT sense. I have 1.6s and find a PAIR of Parasound A23 suit me fine.....One per speaker but NOT yet an active crossover. So while I am passively biamping, i do NOT get the full and potential 3db benefit were I o go full ACTIVE.
Without all the electronic aids I could EASILY see needing more than 10x the power when going from highly sensitive KLIPSCH to Maggies!
Too much is never enough

RE: Magnepan LRS, posted on February 21, 2021 at 22:25:01

emailtim
Audiophile

Posts: 5471
Joined: July 2, 2017

I started with an old DEQX unit, still have it. I have ARC DRC in my Anthem Statement D2V Pre/Pro but never liked what it did so completely disabled it.

DIRAC has a PC software version that I have not tried, nor their embedded versions.

MarcL uses DIRAC for full blown home theater to good effect. I have seen his REW plots and his D50 clarity ratings are exemplary.

I have tried the Audiolense XO demo, but can't get consistent delay measurements with it on my PC. If I am going to use something for time and phase alignments, I need it to create consistent repeatable results.

I am using REW and RePhase. I get much better consistency/repeatable measurements with REW. I am also experimenting with REW on Realtime Linux to see if handles timing latencies better than Windows (with respect to measurements and playback).

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RE: Magnepan LRS, posted on February 22, 2021 at 14:08:52
InfinityApogee Audiophile Posts: 237 Location: Sk Joined: February 14, 2014	emailtim, what version of Linux you running, I'm using Mint Cinnamon 17.3 and 19.2 Thanks

RE: Magnepan LRS, posted on February 22, 2021 at 14:28:50

emailtim
Audiophile

Posts: 5471
Joined: July 2, 2017

I am testing Debian (10) Buster with the latest 5.9 buster-backports vanilla and realtime kernels on an Intel Atom D525 and i7-3770K.

Kernel 5.10 hasn't been back-ported yet debian-buster.

I am also using the RedHat "tuned-adm" profile package, lightweight display manager and XFCE4 desktop, JRMC 26 and REW via ALSA direct to hardware.

Here are some of the latencies I have measured using cyclictest during 2 channel playback (X-axis is in microseconds).

https://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/18/183385.html

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2022/03/30 Historical Records CENSORED

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Magnepan LRS

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