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Digital Crossover for 1.7's - Needed?

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Posted on June 27, 2020 at 17:50:14
Radiohead
Audiophile

Posts: 13
Location: Ontario
Joined: January 18, 2020
I was watching a YouTube Video of an "influencer" (Mike from OCD Hi-Fi Guy) setting up his Magnepan .7s' and he was strongly suggesting that an electronic crossover is needed after the pre-amp cutting frequencies below 80Hz to the Maggies and sending all sub frequencies to the plate amps of the separate left & right subs. In his video, he gives some music samples with and without the crossover. In the samples you can clearly hear the deeper base frequencies impacting the mid's and highs and after sending everything below 80Hz to the sub's everything cleans up.

I thought I would reach out to the community to see if others are running a crossover. I guess the physics of this makes sense for the lower end Maggies like my 1.7's with the single panel design.

Thoughts?

 

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RE: Digital Crossover for 1.7's - Needed? , posted on June 28, 2020 at 01:23:20
Roger Gustavsson
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Posts: 1759
Location: Huskvarna
Joined: February 12, 2010
Why a digital crossover? It can be an analog at line level too. It would save you an ADC. Digital crossovers need to have an ADC and at least 4 DAC:s. Of course, the basses (at least two) must be good in order match the 1.7.

 

I do it with, posted on June 28, 2020 at 07:31:27
G Squared
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Posts: 5742
Location: Washington, DC Metro Area
Joined: November 16, 2004
Contributor
  Since:
December 0, 0000
A Schiit Loki. Cheaper
Gsquared

 

RE: Digital Crossover for 1.7's - Needed? , posted on June 28, 2020 at 07:53:16
Radiohead
Audiophile

Posts: 13
Location: Ontario
Joined: January 18, 2020
Thanks for the comments - my mistake. The crossover would not need to be digital. I would agree that converting to digital and back to analog would not be helpful, this is why I was not impressed with the Mini DSP for this specific application.

I was not aware that the Loki was a crossover and will research it. I thought it was limited to EQ. The other one I was considering was a used DBX 234.

What I am most interested in is the discussion of whether this is actually necessary and useful. Are uses rolling off their low end signal to the Maggies?

 

RE: Digital Crossover for 1.7's - Needed? , posted on June 28, 2020 at 08:55:25
Davey
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Posts: 2099
Joined: September 26, 2013
There's two schools of thought on this. Much depends upon the subwoofer(s) you're using and how the low-pass filter scheme works and how low the cutoff frequency is.

1.7's are a speaker you could let run full range and then match the subwoofer low-pass to the natural 1.7 roll-off. If your subwoofer can do that. That would be a second-order roll-off.

If your subwoofer is limited to fourth-order roll-off, then I think it would be preferable to roll-off the 1.7's to match that.

DSP crossovers allow to implement just about anything for this integration. Analog crossovers are much more limited.

Dave.

 

RE: Digital Crossover for 1.7's - Needed? , posted on June 29, 2020 at 09:20:05
G Squared
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The Loki is an inexpensive and very clean EQ. If you put in the path of your Maggies only (between the preamp out that goes to the Maggies amp and the Maggies's amp input) you can turn down the low bass control and effectively roll off the bass to the Maggies. The sub has its own crossover controls for its low pass.

In my system I got better bass integration, the Maggies' amp does not have to reproduce as much low bass and my LRS seem happier without the low bass content.
Gsquared

 

RE: Digital Crossover for 1.7's - Needed? , posted on June 30, 2020 at 02:08:20
Alexander933
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Posts: 21
Joined: April 26, 2020
G Squared,

What is the frequency range covered by the first band on the loki? I know it has 4 bands and you use the first one of 20hz. But up to what frecuency does it work, 50? 100?

Thanks.

 

RE: Digital Crossover for 1.7's - Needed? , posted on July 1, 2020 at 16:17:10
G Squared
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I use only the lowest band. I am not sure about the bandwidth.
Gsquared

 

RE: Yes, I use a miniDSP to send (80Hz to subs and .80Hz to Maggies ..., posted on July 2, 2020 at 16:46:35
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12044
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
as well as providing a 3-way XO for my Maggies. :-))

Works very well.

Currently, I'm using a 10x10HD but using the digital input - which enables me to run it at 96kHz. However, I'm about to change to a nanoDIGI; this has digital input and 4 (stereo) digital outputs ... so I will use 4x Topping E30s to give me 8x analogue output channels.

So I get what the 10x10HD gives me now ... but with higher quality DACs.

Andy

 

RE: Digital Crossover for 1.7's - Needed? , posted on July 2, 2020 at 17:08:03
BDP24
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Posts: 1036
Location: Vancouver, Washington
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If you can find a First Watt B4 x/o (which is out of production), it will provide just about any textbook filtering you could need. They retailed for $1500 when available, though sold for about $1200. Marchand makes a lot of different models, most reasonably priced (under $1000).

 

RE: Yes, I use a miniDSP to send (80Hz to subs and .80Hz to Maggies ..., posted on July 3, 2020 at 00:45:14
Roger Gustavsson
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Posts: 1759
Location: Huskvarna
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@Andy

What about analog sources when you go for a nanoDIGI? I remember you had some special turntable.

 

RE: Good question, Roger ..., posted on July 3, 2020 at 01:07:38
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12044
Location: Melbourne
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Initially, I fed the (analogue) output from my preamp into the analogue input of my miniDSP. This meant I had to run the 10x10HD at 48kHz.

A couple of years ago I bought a good A2D converter to digitise my phono stage output ... so I now use the digital input to the miniDSP - which enables me to run it at 96kHz. (The A2D converter can actually run at 192kHz - so I'm hoping the nanoDIGI supports this.)

So I already digitise my vinyl with a better quality input A2D converter than what is in the miniDSP - by moving to the nanoDIGI, I can use higher quality output D2A converters than what miniDSP offers. Of course ... this all comes at a price! :-))

Andy

 

RE: Good question, Roger ..., posted on July 3, 2020 at 02:26:49
Davey
Audiophile

Posts: 2099
Joined: September 26, 2013
The nanoDIGI unit is like most of the miniDSP gadgets with digital input and utilizes an ASRC in conjunction with a 96khz sampling rate. So, your 192kHz A/D output will be resampled.
But I don't see any issue with that. There isn't anything being produced by a phonograph record that would require a 192kHz rate...nor a 96kHz one for that matter. :)

Dave.

 

RE: Aah, OK, Dave ..., posted on July 3, 2020 at 05:00:10
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12044
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
So the nanoDIGI has an internal rate of 96kHz. NP - my A2D converter can select that (to save re-sampling) ... it's what I'm using at present (into my 2x10HD).

Andy

 

RE: Aah, OK, Dave ..., posted on July 3, 2020 at 08:30:53
Davey
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Posts: 2099
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Even though the incoming rate might be 96khz, it will still re-sample. This is an ASRC scheme.

Dave.

 

RE: Digital Crossover for 1.7's - Needed? , posted on July 29, 2020 at 21:01:23
LineSource
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Posts: 144
Location: Iowa
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I would never cut the low frequencies of my 1.7s or any magnepans for that matter! Magnepan bass is one of the deciding factors for me having Maggie's. Subs by any manufacturer will never equal the speed and resolution of Maggie bass when they are properly positioned and in a room that is preferably treated. I have a dedicated listening room that's 11x13x8. Before I treated it with absorption and REAl bass traps, not those silly foam corner traps, this room had no bass and a terrible slap echo. I built four bass traps that are 2x4 and four inches thick made of wood frames and filled with two, two inch thick rock wool insulation boards covered in burlap mounted diagonally in the corners of the room. Foam absorbing panels cover about half the wall space. Now instead of the Maggie's falling off at 40hz I actually have a small bump at 40 hz and solid extension to 35. I do run two subs crossed over at 35hz with recordings that have actual sub frequencies below that but most of the time they are turned off. Maggie bass is incredible with proper setup and in my opinion should always be run with no cut off. Oh and the speakers are only three feet from the wall behind them.
LineSource

 

RE: Yes, I use a miniDSP to send (80Hz to subs and .80Hz to Maggies ..., posted on July 31, 2020 at 01:37:22
Roger Gustavsson
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Posts: 1759
Location: Huskvarna
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Andy: Where do you set the volume in your new setup, nanoDIGI+ 4xTopping E30?

A friend recommend the miniDSP miniSHARC + some DACs.

 

RE: "Where do you set the volume in your new setup" ..., posted on July 31, 2020 at 02:02:29
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12044
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
It will be the same place as now, Roger - after the miniDSP & DACs.

(The new setup is not yet implemented - I have the nanoDIGI but have not yet purchased the E30s.)

Andy

 

RE: "Where do you set the volume in your new setup" ..., posted on July 31, 2020 at 06:34:18
Roger Gustavsson
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There is a discussion about the E30 on a swedish forum right now. Some are a bit worried about the reconstruction filter, it is not very good.

 

RE: Yes, I use a miniDSP to send (80Hz to subs and .80Hz to Maggies ..., posted on July 31, 2020 at 08:11:48
dumpingground
Audiophile

Posts: 226
Joined: February 23, 2011
I also have had good luck with the nanodigi to provide a digital crossover as well as to integrate my subs with my Maggie 1.6's.

https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=mug&m=235807

 

RE: Aah, OK - thanks, Roger. nt, posted on July 31, 2020 at 14:56:04
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12044
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
.

 

RE: Digital Crossover for 1.7's - Needed? , posted on August 9, 2020 at 23:39:31
pictureguy
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Posts: 12768
Location: SoCal
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My MG1.6 are low-cut about 50hz and the subs 'cut in' about 45hz. The gap is filled in nicely since these are not brick wall filters. 24db octave on the sub and 12db octave on the preamp.
Too much is never enough

 

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