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Heard the LRS at Axpona

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Posted on April 13, 2019 at 14:14:29
triamp
Audiophile

Posts: 780
Location: USA
Joined: August 6, 2008
 Met with Wendell at Axpona and he demoed the LRS for me. I was very impressed. This is one hell of a speaker -PERIOD. And for the money- incredible. Like any panel speaker, placement and room size are key to good sound. Also important (for any speaker) is wall and overall room high frequency absorbance. The hotel room was small which suits this small speaker, kind of like an apartment-sized living room or small dedicated listening room. And there were some absorbent panels on the walls, especially behind the listening position. Nothing too crazy in terms of room treatment, just some things to tone down the "hard" character of the walls.

It played **LOUD** and bass was solid down to a reasonable LF cutoff. This is not a speaker for home theater LFE use, but for music it really suits. Imaging was great, and the upper bass through mids was spooky good; on the a capella male group vocal track that I listened to, the sound was ... uncanny. Treble was good too, but I'm spoiled by my MG 3.6r's treble. For the price, I don't think you can find a speaker that comes closer to recreating the experience of live music than this.

Like all Magnepans, it will work best with an amplifier capable of high current output. Lots of those are available, both new and used.

This was the only speaker I heard at Axpona that I really liked. Everything else sounded boxy to me.



Science doesn't care what you believe.

 

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RE: Heard the LRS at Axpona, posted on April 14, 2019 at 17:02:59
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 LOL love your comment about the boxy speakers. It was so true. A lot of people are saying the LRS was the best sound at the show, though in all fairness, a lot of speakers were suffering from bad acoustics. Wendell said he ordered those panels from Home Depot when he measured the room and discovered how bad the acoustics were, and that they solved the problem.

 

RE: Heard the LRS at Axpona, posted on April 14, 2019 at 17:28:02
triamp
Audiophile

Posts: 780
Location: USA
Joined: August 6, 2008
 For panel speaker guys like me, boxes just don't QUITE do it, no matter how good.

And, yeah, you can't judge the sound in hotel rooms really. But in some of the big conference / meeting rooms you should be able to get good sound. But no matter how you treat a room, a box still stores and releases energy.

I will say that at the Axpona shows I've been to the last couple of years, the Wilson speakers sounded the least offensive of all the monkey coffins. Dunno if it's design, or room setup; probably both.

So, hmmm, let's see... $600~$700 for a pair of LRS or $16,000 for a pair of Wilson Sabrinas....

(To be fair the Wilsons are probably capable of higher clean SPL in a larger room... but I think you get my point here.)

The LRS is just SO CAPABLE and MUSICAL....
Science doesn't care what you believe.

 

RE: Heard the LRS at Axpona, posted on April 14, 2019 at 17:53:03
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 I liked the Wilsons too, and I've never been a big fan of Wilsons -- sort of a nice euphonic hi fi sound, but like most dynamics they're too smeared to sound real.

But it's so dependent on acoustics -- at THE a couple of years ago I thought the Magicos sounded better than the Wilsons, but they really disappointed at Axpona.

But yeah -- I felt almost embarrassed that these $650 speakers sounded better than most of the $100,000 systems I was hearing! Though as you say, they'd never match the Wilsons (or for that matter bigger Maggies) in clean output levels or bass extension.

Another amusing embarrassment -- there was a beautiful pair of early ESL-57's (bronze grilles) in one of the rooms -- these had never been rebuilt and were running perfectly after 61 years -- and when Titanium Troy and I heard them on the first day, they were the best sound we'd heard so far!

Troy and I were talking about how they compared to the LRS (which we didn't hear until the next day). LRS had better imaging and played louder, the Quads were cleaner (thought the LRS is amazingly clean) and had that inimitable midrange (actually I'd say the 30.7 equals it in midrange smoothness, but the quads have the edge in clarity over anything but another stat -- and the other stats at the show didn't sound as good).

 

RE: Heard the LRS at Axpona, posted on April 14, 2019 at 18:17:56
triamp
Audiophile

Posts: 780
Location: USA
Joined: August 6, 2008
 Yeah I love the ESL-57. I have a pair. Tweeter panels rebuilt by Wayne Piquet, and I have his voltage multiplier diode ladders and his zener protection boards too. There is an incredible upper bass-through-mids from the ESLs. Like nothing else (though I'm told that 30.7's are just as good; I haven't heard them yet, have to go up to Audio COnsultants some day.)

I have my ESL's in a small rooms and they really satisfy.
Science doesn't care what you believe.

 

RE: Heard the LRS at Axpona, posted on April 15, 2019 at 12:26:31
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 Yep, stunning. I'd say the 30.7 mids are as smooth and sweet -- stunningly real -- but I don't think they're quite as detailed -- they're in the category of "close to electrostatic clarity" rather than quite there.

The amazing thing about these Quads too is that they've never been rebuilt. All they had to do was add a diode in the power supply.

 

RE: Heard the LRS at Axpona, posted on April 18, 2019 at 22:22:49
TitaniumTroy
Audiophile

Posts: 626
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
Joined: October 14, 2006
 Here is a small review from a audiobeatnik, who was in the room next to the LRS room.

 

RE: Heard the LRS at Axpona, posted on April 18, 2019 at 22:25:53
TitaniumTroy
Audiophile

Posts: 626
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
Joined: October 14, 2006
 Oops
https://theaudiobeatnik.com/magnepan-lrs-the-most-exciting-speakers-at-axpona/

 

That reflects what I'm hearing with mine., posted on April 19, 2019 at 04:44:18
volunteer
Audiophile

Posts: 5666
Location: Louisville, KY
Joined: January 7, 2012
 I've done no tweaking or played with positioning. Just placed them where my other speakers were and started listening. They seem to be getting smoother and deeper with time. May be deluding myself. Time will tell.


-Wendell

 

RE: That reflects what I'm hearing with mine., posted on April 19, 2019 at 05:00:23
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 Nope, that sounds about right for Maggie break in -- the bass gets measurably deeper and the sound smooths out. If you can leave them playing when you're not around it will speed the break in process.

 

RE: Heard the LRS at Axpona, posted on April 19, 2019 at 05:04:49
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 Heh, yes, saw that last night. It seems he chose the right room to be next to! Guess he's right behind Wendell in this snapshot:


 

RE: Heard the LRS at Axpona, posted on April 19, 2019 at 10:15:35
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 The ESL will always have the detail advantage over planar magnetics or even ribbons simply because its diaphragm does not have a "heavy" metal conductor on it. Perhaps one day we could use a carbon graphite layer as the voice coil on a planar tweeter and match that detail level, but even Neodymium magnets don't allow a thin graphite layer to work as it just can't carry the minimum current required to get decent volume.

The downside of ESLs is that the ultimate output is still restricted - though some 2-3 db higher than it used to be. There is no ESL I know of that can do substantially over 100db at the listening seat at any frequency without fatal distortion or arcing.

 

Please post opinion as you can, posted on April 19, 2019 at 10:49:52
G Squared
Audiophile

Posts: 8490
Location: Washington, DC Metro Area
Joined: November 16, 2004
Contributor
  Since: May 23, 2023
 I am in the market.

The LRS and .7 are on my current short list with ZU, Ohm and Golden Ear. Kind of all over the map on choices. I have plenty of power and a great sub to go with whatever I choose.
Gsquared

 

RE: Please post opinion as you can, posted on April 19, 2019 at 11:54:32
volunteer
Audiophile

Posts: 5666
Location: Louisville, KY
Joined: January 7, 2012
 I own Golden Ear Triton 7s and have since their first year of release. Fabulous!


-Wendell

 

RE: Heard the LRS at Axpona, posted on April 19, 2019 at 12:11:32
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 Yep, it seems that you can get about ten times the excursion out of a planar magnetic diaphragm than an ESL. So if you want planar-like levels, you need a much larger diaphragm, or some kind of hybrid approach so you can cross over higher.

And if you use a large diaphragm, you end up with gigantic speakers like the Sound Labs.

I've always wondered why no one made a line source stat with a time delayed diaphragm like the ESL-63. But I guess the truth is that the market for large electrostatics is very limited these days -- I heard that King stopped showing their ESL's in the states because they just weren't getting any sales.

I've also wondered about a hybrid approach with a planar woofer, as in Mmlrot's system.

T+A was showing an interesting hybrid which used a line source ESL tweeter -- superb -- mated with a line of dynamic drivers. Good overall, but it seemed to me that I could hear the lower definition of the dynamic midranges.




 

RE: Heard the LRS at Axpona, posted on April 19, 2019 at 19:23:11
TitaniumTroy
Audiophile

Posts: 626
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
Joined: October 14, 2006
 I agree with Josh, I was in the T&A room and it didn't suck but, the sound could have been better. However it was better than PS Audio's prototype speaker, which is a work in progress. At the show we heard the the lowest model, the highest end model is somewhat similar to T&A but was not present.

 

RE: Heard the LRS at Axpona, posted on April 20, 2019 at 05:04:45
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 I read somewhere that the sound at the PS Audio was better after Friday when we heard it. Also, PS said that the production version will have adjustments that the prototype didn't. Still kind of disappointing, given the "IRS killer" buildup in Paul McGowan's videos, but I hope it will get better (and the corner of that huge room has to have been a lousy place to demo a speaker).

Still hope the AN-1 can match the IRS . . .

 

RE: Heard the LRS at Axpona, posted on April 20, 2019 at 12:34:13
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 Didn't know that was an ESL tweeter on the T + A but saw that it would obviously be a planar. Do you know if it is setup as a dipole like the Genesis speakers, with a vented back?

 

RE: Heard the LRS at Axpona, posted on April 20, 2019 at 12:55:20
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 According to the web page, they aren't dipoles. They say that "The bass units are installed in pairs, screwed to each other in their own chambers, and de-coupled from the cabinet itself. The mid-range drivers have individual, airtight, fully de-coupled enclosures of completely asymmetrical design. The electrostatic unit is also mounted in an asymmetrical chamber, and its rear volume is damped."

https://www.ta-hifi.de/en/loudspeakers/solitaire-se/

 

RE: Heard the LRS at Axpona, posted on April 20, 2019 at 13:39:07
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 So that should work as an acoustic suspension ESL a la Janszen speakers. So much for wishing it to be a dipole.

 

RE: Heard the LRS at Axpona, posted on April 20, 2019 at 14:14:39
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 Yes, very much like a Janszen.

I wonder how it would have sounded as a dipole.

There's something acoustically questionable about a short line source since vertically it's going to behave as a line source at high frequencies and a point source at lower ones. So you get power response issues -- you can make the on axis response right or you can make the power response right, but never both.

In theory, a speaker should be either a true point source or an infinite line.

Still, the LRS sounds great, and it's a short line source as well. (Though as Wendell demonstrated when he stacked .7's, the full length line had better midbass, which is in line with theory since the single .7 is starting to act as a point source at midbass frequencies where wavelength becomes > twice the line height).

 

RE: Heard the LRS at Axpona, posted on April 20, 2019 at 15:28:51
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 Yes, so the go to would be stacked LRS? We should ask Grant for dedicated stands with dual driver frames to take the internal drivers and support them. Stacked .7s are a challenge to some rooms with low ceilings - wouldn't fit it mine.

My first thought of the T+A speakers was to wonder where the near/far field transition would be and thus which exact listening distance they had in mind (hopefully a realistic one. Otherwise the tonal balance would change as you change listening distance.) Danny Richie's LS 9 comes to mind, but at least it is a dipole for the Neo8 PDR driver arrays.

 

RE: Heard the LRS at Axpona, posted on April 20, 2019 at 15:52:55
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 I was wondering about exactly that -- stacked LRS's. I'm sure they'd sound great, but then a pair of .7's would have deeper bass and play louder without strain, and Steve Guttenburg said the .7's have a better midrange, too.

I imagine the T+A's were optimized for a typical listening distance and give you some adjustability, but not sure how effective that is. There was way too much midbass in the room, but a lot of rooms were having that problem, so I think it had more to do with the acoustics of those rooms than the speakers.

 

RE: Heard the LRS at Axpona, posted on April 20, 2019 at 16:12:51
BDP24
Audiophile

Posts: 1070
Location: Vancouver, Washington
Joined: September 12, 2013
 I just called Pearl Audio in Portland, Oregon, the Magnepan dealer closest to me, and asked if they will be stocking and demoing the LRS. Nope.

 

RE: Heard the LRS at Axpona, posted on April 20, 2019 at 16:57:02
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 I don't think the dealers make much money off it. At $650, it's basically a promo program.

 

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