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30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing.

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Posted on March 7, 2019 at 09:09:16
josh358
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Posts: 12327
Joined: February 9, 2010
Well, it seems I lucked out -- Wendell said that the room at Take 5 in New Haven was one of the better ones he's been to. And since as he put it, some of the rooms he's gone to made 30.7's sound inferior to 3.7's,- and, as he also said, he's been to 49 rooms and heard 49 30.7's, it seems I really was fortunate!

The room itself was nicely sized, 22 x 18 with really high ceilings, thin panels on the walls (still wondering what they were -- scatter plates?), acoustic ceiling and carpet, tube traps in the corners. The 30.7's were maybe six feet from the front wall. That's Ralph Cortigiano, Take 5's proprietor, to the right:



(Apologies for the quality of the photos, I just took a few quick snapshots and I was in the crowd.)

Wendell began by explaining that the purpose of the North American tour wasn't primarily to sell 30.7's -- flagships don't sell in large quantity -- but to connect with audiophiles and promote the brand with an interesting demonstration. He described how he had been looking for a solution to the usual demo problem, namely, that almost nobody gets to sit in the sweet spot, and came up with the idea of removing the chairs and letting people circulate so that everyone had a chance to listen for the center. And this provided an opportunity to say something interesting about the effect of power response, which is at least as important as on-axis response in determining what the listener hears. [My nerdy addendum: subjectively, power response predominates at lower frequencies, on-axis response at higher ones.]



Wendell also explained that he had set the midrange-tweeter panels with the tweeters on the outside rather than the inside and otherwise set them up to optimize performance for the whole room rather than a sweet spot -- something he describes as more of an art than a science. This meant that the imaging in the sweet spot wasn't as precise as it would normally be.

Then Ralph started playing the music (the dealers choose the playlists and provide the equipment -- in this case, the source was an Aurender server feeding a Moon preamp and amp at 500 watts/channel into 4 ohms). He began with the Minnesota Orchestra's recording of the Dance of the Tumblers -- Wendell tells me that he'd set the speakers up so that the perspective was similar to what he heard from Jim Winey's seat in Row 11 at the hall.

As the regulars here know, Wendell has had some frustrations on this tour, both with the varying and often substandard acoustics at dealers, and the fact that he didn't think the sometimes critical comments on the Internet reflected the audience reaction. So he asked me to observe the audience, and make some notes of the reaction. But first, my own.

From the time I heard the opening chord, I knew I was listening to something special.

Two things stood out.One was the remarkable image. When someone in the audience asked him about the sonic difference between the 30.7's and the 20.7's, Wendell said that his wife Galina had been on one of the listening panels and, when asked to compare the two speakers, said that the 20.7's sounded like a tunnel, and the 30.7's like a waterfall. And that's exactly what it sounded like, a waterfall!

Of course I'm familiar with the imaging of the IVa's, which is of similar design. So what I heard first, and what really blew me away, was the purity and accuracy of the 30.7's. It was essentially the performance of the Maggie ribbon extended down through the midrange to touch the bass. And the naturalism just blew me away. Between that and the planar imaging, I could hear immediately why the critics had said you'd need to spend in the $100,000 range to equal it.

With Wendell's request in mind, I took some notes on the audience reaction. "Unbelievable," one guy said. Others shook their heads. Then someone said "I need to win the lottery," and everyone cracked up.

I took a snapshot that I think illustrates the typical reaction, including mine -- look at the expression on their faces!



Interestingly, the most powerful reaction, mine and it seemed to me others as well, came not from the orchestral music or the Brubeck cut (need I mention which one?) or Louis Armstrong singing "Saint James Infirmary," but from the smallest piece Ralph played, Beethoven's F major quartet (nah, I didn't remember which one it was, I looked on the display :-) ). It was far and away the best rendition of a string quartet I've ever heard, because between the ribbon and the new high performance midrange and the midbass coupler it had *none* of the glitz and glare that you always hear on strings, but rather the purity that I hear at live performances.

There was a moment of skepticism, too -- someone in the audience said he didn't care about symphonies and listened to nothing but rock, and an interested discussion occurred as Ralph described the differing demands of different kinds of music, accuracy as opposed to slam.

I want to stress that this isn't a review. People were moving around, casting acoustic shadows, and we were all too guilty to hog the sweet spot, which frequently went empty as a result. You just can't hear all of a speakers virtues and flaws under such circumstances. But knowing Maggies and my IVa's as I do, it was easy to hear that they'd been remarkably effective at improving the midrange and that it had the spectacular spatial imaging of the IVa's.

Which brings up another issue. The day after I came back, I naturally searched out some of the recordings we'd listened to and tried them on my IVa's. I was of course a bit afraid to do this, knowing how unrefined they'd sound compared to the 30.7's. And of course I heard that. (Though I was also reminded that they're pretty damn good! Definitely a first world problem.) But what struck me was that the IVa's were giving me clean, gut-punching levels that they hadn't even tried to achieve in the larger room, and more specific imaging.

That in turn helped me better appreciate what some who are listening at the demos have been writing. You just can't optimize speakers for a large audience and play them into a big room full of people with the same imaging and levels that you can in your room at home. And this is more true of planars than dynamics because while Tympani-size planars can have good dynamics, they don't have the headroom of something like a big Wilson that says "6dB more for the show? Fine by me."

I just measured a 113 dB peak on the Organ Symphonyand the IVa's didn't break a sweat, while you could hear that the amp or speakers were getting a bit uncomfortable at times during the demo. So at the demo, I was making allowances for these artifacts and listening for the improvements that I could hear. And I found myself wishing, after playing the cuts at home, that everyone could have heard the 30.7's up close and personal just to hear the dynamic impact that large planars are capable of.

So that's about it. I was in one of those periods where I get bored with audio and don't feel like tinkering or listening, but this lit the fires again. It was that kind of experience, with the kind of magical quality that had me wanting to email people and thinking jesus.fucking.christ. I haven't had that kind of experience in a long time. And I could see that others were having a similar reaction.

 

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RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 7, 2019 at 09:29:48
ketchup
Audiophile

Posts: 619
Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: February 29, 2004
Sounds like you got lucky and heard them in a good room! Did Wendell happen to say what the best sounding room of the tour was?

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 7, 2019 at 09:42:13
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12327
Joined: February 9, 2010
You know, he has mentioned that, but I forget what he said. He may not want to mention the name out of concern for the feelings of the dealers. He did say, though, that the best rooms he's been in have been the ones that used diffusion.

It was also apparently a good crowd. At least two people said they'd had 1D's . . .

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 7, 2019 at 10:15:55
ketchup
Audiophile

Posts: 619
Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: February 29, 2004
Exactly! He told me that the best room had diffusion all over the front wall, but I didn't get the name of the room/dealer. I'd like to find out so I can see some pics.

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 7, 2019 at 10:42:26
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
Great description.

I hope we all get a chance to hear the 30.7. It seems to be all we could have hoped for in the Tympani configuration. Finally the large planar we all wished the Tympani could be.

Not surprising is that good diffusion and perhaps bass traps are really useful and make more difference in a maggie system than anything else other than sufficient amp power.

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 7, 2019 at 11:56:50
josh358
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Posts: 12327
Joined: February 9, 2010
Makes sense -- I'll ask him.

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 7, 2019 at 12:00:37
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12327
Joined: February 9, 2010
Diffusion really is great. Wish I could get it to work in my own room, but it just isn't big enough.

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 7, 2019 at 13:01:10
Utley1
Audiophile

Posts: 1609
Location: NYC
Joined: July 30, 2010
FAIR TO mention: TAKE FIVE must employed $60,000 worth of equipment, as did Lyric....easily twice the price of the 30.7's.....We are also up again a 9% sales tax in NYC, 7% in NJ, and 6.4% in New Haven Conn. That's tough shit! By 'waterfall', I assume is meant(no pun) total immersion of sound, (Horseshoe Falls Can.) surrounding you, as opposed to the 'tunnel' where sound more or less comes, at you as driving through the Lincoln Tunnel like funnel, and rather impossible to duplicate the sound of a full orchestra, which from past memory the Tymphany's can do.???

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 7, 2019 at 13:13:24
BillH
Audiophile

Posts: 3913
Location: Baton Rouge
Joined: December 23, 1999
But everyone is standing, and I like to sit. Do they sound best when you are standing?

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 7, 2019 at 13:57:52
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12327
Joined: February 9, 2010
Wendell's idea was to have everyone move around so everyone got a chance in the sweet spot. If everyone was sitting, you'd have just a few people in the middle and most of us wouldn't have had a chance to hear them from the sweet spot in the center.

One of the cool things about full-height line sources like the 30.7's is that they sound almost the same at any height, so while sitting is theoretically ideal in practice it doesn't make much of a difference to the sound. It's pretty cool, actually -- unlike with point source speakers, the image always seems to be coming from in front of you, whether you stand or sit.

 

Nice to see Wendell coordinated, posted on March 7, 2019 at 14:25:41
M3 lover
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with the colors of the demo speakers. ;^)

That appears to be a very high ceiling, would you say maybe 10'?

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 7, 2019 at 14:38:45
BillH
Audiophile

Posts: 3913
Location: Baton Rouge
Joined: December 23, 1999
Must have been quite a demo.

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 7, 2019 at 15:04:12
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12327
Joined: February 9, 2010
Exactly. The Tympanis come closer to three channel than any other conventional two channel setup I can think of. Something about having the woofers outside of the usual stereo triangle which, curiously, doesn't create a hole in the middle the way separating the tweeters widely would. It just expands the image laterally.

I've been playing with the IVa's this afternoon -- I removed the treatment on the front wall, put diffusers over the bass traps in the corners, and moved the mid-tweet panels in so it's more like the 30.7 setup. Then listening to orchestra. It's amazing what they can do.

Here's one of their equipment racks:



Thankfully, while the dealers can use the most esoteric electronics, I don't think the 30.7's are any harder to drive than any Maggie, so we peons can get by with more reasonably priced gear . . .



 

RE: Nice to see Wendell coordinated, posted on March 7, 2019 at 15:07:21
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12327
Joined: February 9, 2010
Heh, didn't notice that.

Yeah, it was a really high ceiling -- I'd say 10' is about right.

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 7, 2019 at 15:13:02
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12327
Joined: February 9, 2010
It was the best audio experience I've had in a long time. I mean, shows are fun, but it's so rare to hear magic there -- you hear systems you know are great, and half the time they just sound eh.

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 7, 2019 at 15:46:45
Utley1
Audiophile

Posts: 1609
Location: NYC
Joined: July 30, 2010
That is a great achievement; although I cannot imagine how that can be achieved with the Magico or Vandersteen at the $100,000 price level --just a significantly different design concept to me

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 7, 2019 at 15:54:48
Utley1
Audiophile

Posts: 1609
Location: NYC
Joined: July 30, 2010
Agree entirely....The Moon stuff is absurdly priced. The 30.7's as your Tympani's are the only only speakers made now that could recreate an orchestra-(Once owned different sets of omni directionals, (hybrid electrostatics and Ohm F's that came close,) but nothing like the Typhany's that I remember.

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 7, 2019 at 16:06:02
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12327
Joined: February 9, 2010
Yep, I think the only way to do it is with a line source -- just physics. It can be visualized as a cylindrical wave and you're moving up and down the cylinder, so it's always the same.

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 7, 2019 at 20:03:47
Desafinado
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Josh, the only "Esoteric" piece of equipment is the CD spinner!

Could not resist! LOL

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 7, 2019 at 20:41:57
timm
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Location: Ann Arbor Mi
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Great write up josh. Have you heard the 20.7 - just curious if you had a comparison.

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 7, 2019 at 21:03:53
timm
Audiophile

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Location: Ann Arbor Mi
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Btw for the rock heads out there tell Wendell to pack DSOTM. It sounds great on the 20.7 can't imagine it on the 30. There are some special moments. :)

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 8, 2019 at 05:30:23
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12327
Joined: February 9, 2010
Do they have a cylinder player as well?

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 8, 2019 at 05:33:05
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12327
Joined: February 9, 2010
I actually haven't heard the 20.7, just the 3.7 and 30.7. So all I have to go by is Galina's comparison -- the 30.7 sounds like a river!

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 8, 2019 at 06:33:50
Green Lantern
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Interesting he has them butted up against the side walls even though there's obviously room for them to breathe.









 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 8, 2019 at 06:42:26
Satie
Audiophile

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From my own experiments in placement, one of the big advantages of having a separate bass panel is that you can put it at the sidewall and gain from the deepest bass room modes and lower dipole cancellation so it is beneficial. It also lowers the main length mode's dominance. And you get all that without placing the tweeter too close to the sidewalls.

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 8, 2019 at 08:50:26
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12327
Joined: February 9, 2010
That's intentional -- the woofers use the boundary to increase effective baffle size for more bass.

 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 9, 2019 at 09:06:26
Green Lantern
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question: I know Wendell often uses the dealer's amps; but does he also have an amp he tugs along for these presentations? If so what does he use? TIA

these are great chronicles of this road trip btw!









 

RE: 30.7's in New Haven -- in a word, amazing., posted on March 9, 2019 at 16:59:34
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12327
Joined: February 9, 2010
That's a prototype of an amp that they've developed. Wendell took it on part of the tour, not sure if he has it with him now . . .

 

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