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maggie SMGa water based repair glue options?

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Posted on February 27, 2017 at 10:58:31
chertok22@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 36
Location: texas
Joined: January 6, 2014
hi all

just got off the phone with the nice folks at magnepan.

i've also been reading up on these new to me speakers. they need /some/repair in the middle of the speaker and modest banana peel repair.

do i need to wait until magnepan can ship me some special glue or should i go ahead and find some kind of water based repair glue? they seem to like the idea of using 3M 77 to tack in place (i guess after removing the spray fix that is underneath) and then using their special glue as best option.

second option seems to be to find a water based glue to use instead of the magnepan glue.

they are not big fans of the contact cement method.

i am ALSO wondering if i really need to take up any of the existing spray fix or if i can use it (still tacky) and simply reglue the wires with some metal shim material temporarily holding it in place until it dries.

for the most part i see minimal 'browning' at the base and tip of the panels (like 2 1/2 - 3 inches). also, if i push the wires back into place they stick pretty well and appear to want to stay at least until they get vibrated a lot.

thoughts?

THANKS

jon

 

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RE: maggie SMGa water based repair glue options?, posted on February 27, 2017 at 15:59:08
neolith
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Posts: 3807
Location: Virginia
Joined: February 21, 2002
Contributor
  Since:
December 2, 2004
I would wait for the glue. The 3M77 just makes the panel and wires tacky so the wires stay in place until the glue can set. You can also attach a 9v battery to the drivers so the magnets hold the wire down.



I married the perfect woman. The downside is everything that goes wrong is my fault.



 

RE: maggie SMGa water based repair glue options?, posted on February 27, 2017 at 19:07:35
JBen
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Posts: 2768
Location: South FL
Joined: May 18, 2008
Contributor
  Since:
July 26, 2010
You know, this is one on which Neolith is perhaps being a bit too modest. A few years back he came up with a glue alternative that may just be the ticket for you. Around here, the typical recommendation is the DAP Weldwood contact cement. It does work very well.

Yet, I use both approaches. What Neo came up with was to use E-6000 glue instead. I must say that it not always worked as well as DAP for me in some areas. But this has been in extreme cases, where my bouts of industrial-strength stupidity prevailed...like playing the 1812 cannons on my ancient MMG's. This can loosen some E-6000-treated wire segments, not all. The virtues it has, however, have served me well.

One of these is pertinent to your case. E-6000 can dissolve more easily with acetone. I've tested laying and curing it several times, removing it with acetone each time from the same test areas.

Unless the Mylar in your Maggies is quite different from mine (made about two years after yours) I cannot see the acetone doing damage. You just have to be careful not to let it go into unwanted areas. Not hard at all. Later, you can do the "permanent treatment".

I must add that E-6000 proved ideal for banana peel segments, those you see at the top and bottom. If E-6000 gives hold, and everything does in that area eventually, it does so "gracefully", never a rattle. Then, at my leisure, I reapply.

Holding down wires - by segments - can be done with the battery trick while pressing with the thin end of a brush handle. I use a 12v car starter battery for brief periods of 5 sec or so to help positioning and curing along....but NEVER on the tweeters.

 

RE: maggie SMGa water based repair glue options?, posted on February 27, 2017 at 23:18:36
chertok22@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 36
Location: texas
Joined: January 6, 2014
ok. thanks. so i guess these sit until april when they can ship the glue.
any recommendations on when i need to remove the 3M with acetone? only when it is bubbling or coming up...?

 

RE: maggie SMGa water based repair glue options?, posted on February 27, 2017 at 23:31:18
chertok22@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 36
Location: texas
Joined: January 6, 2014
hey man. thank you.

so can i use the dap or the e6000 on /top/ of existing clean 3M77?
i do 't gave a ton of trouble and i'm not crazy about using acetone and removing a lot of it.
also, ate there any images of the magnet trick and where to NOT apply power? the tweeters are the thin wires at the edges?!?
magnet trick seems like it could be very helpful with e6000 but the contact cement seems like it would be VERY easy sep if i can adhere to existing 3M77...
THANKS

 

RE: maggie SMGa water based repair glue options?, posted on February 28, 2017 at 05:24:03
JBen
Audiophile

Posts: 2768
Location: South FL
Joined: May 18, 2008
Contributor
  Since:
July 26, 2010
Unfortunately, there's no way around it. You would need to remove the remaining old adhesive (from the Mylar & wire segments to be fixed only) with acetone or something. Otherwise, the new glue would not hold. (However, please check with them again; removing the old adhesive from my Maggies DID take acetone. The old glue was not water-based.) If you need to wait until April and follow Magnepan's instructions, that should work well also. In fact, it does give you more time to study other things in more detail.


The magnets mentioned earlier are the ones on the black perforated board side. You may have seen references to it as "pole piece". That perforated metal sheet you see is fully covered with magnets on the inner side. You don't see the magnet side directly because it is facing the Mylar sheet. (If you explore the MUG link at the top of the forum's page, I am sure you'll find illustrations.)

What Neo and I suggest is the "battery trick". When/if you get closer to try it, we can give you more details. It takes advantage of the continuous attraction between wires and magnets when a battery's DC power is applied (in the proper polarity and terminals). It is really simple and helps to keep a wire segment down after applying adhesive there.

 

RE: maggie SMGa water based repair glue options?, posted on February 28, 2017 at 06:57:31
chertok22@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 36
Location: texas
Joined: January 6, 2014
hey man

thanks a ton. i guess i will get with magnestan on the glue. i don't have the receiver to power these things anyway so it should (!) be easy to cool my jets.

can i ask where the"MUG" forum is exactly? maybe it is not showing up on my phone? does MUG stand for something?

lastly can i ask about stands? i've seen some very plain upside down metal T stands with the speakers about 2" off the floor. we dell says they don't want them off the ground or they lose base but they /do/ want them tilted a bit (i guess for room size or something to direct the sound). does this sound right and is it BETTER to have a very rigid stand...?

THANKS

jon

 

RE: maggie SMGa water based repair glue options?, posted on February 28, 2017 at 07:42:35
LarryCow
Audiophile

Posts: 47
Location: Long Island
Joined: May 5, 2004
I've used both on my SMGa's; first the adhesive Magnepan sent in their kit, and years later the DAP Weldwood. I found the original adhesive worked well for the thinner tweeter wires but did not last on the mid-bass wires. The DAP has held the larger wires tight for years now. Hope you enjoy yours as much as I have.

 

This is the MUG forum nt, posted on February 28, 2017 at 07:42:59
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 4346
Joined: July 6, 2002
nt

 

RE: maggie SMGa water based repair glue options?, posted on February 28, 2017 at 09:02:42
JBen
Audiophile

Posts: 2768
Location: South FL
Joined: May 18, 2008
Contributor
  Since:
July 26, 2010
MUG stands for Magnepan Users Group, an old forum which seems to have been integrated into this one well before I was born, LOL. On regular PC web browsers, it can be seen as a link at the top of the main Planars page, as "MUG Home". It now contains the old , as well as some new, reference information about planars, not just Maggies. I have been able to access it from my phone but who knows if the displays have changed. So, I include the link at the bottom here.

Now, about the stands, we can take that up later (I am at work, lunch break, and starving :). There's plenty said in the MUG and here already but I may have an idea or two to offer once you get your bearings.

 

RE: maggie SMGa water based repair glue options?, posted on February 28, 2017 at 10:05:05
JBen
Audiophile

Posts: 2768
Location: South FL
Joined: May 18, 2008
Contributor
  Since:
July 26, 2010
Larry, I am just back from lunch and about to get back to work here but a question came to mind. Do yo remember if you got the new "and improved" adhesive formulation?

I can't put my mental finger to an aprox date but Magnepan began using it a few years back.

 

RE: maggie SMGa water based repair glue options?, posted on February 28, 2017 at 11:31:01
LarryCow
Audiophile

Posts: 47
Location: Long Island
Joined: May 5, 2004
Likely not; I initially rewired them about 15 years ago. After a few years, I got buzzing and reglued them with the DAP.

 

RE: maggie SMGa water based repair glue options?, posted on February 28, 2017 at 12:44:46
chertok22@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 36
Location: texas
Joined: January 6, 2014
ah. cool. thanks a ton. still trying to get my bearings with the forum software (and terminology!).

appreciate it....

 

magnestan , posted on February 28, 2017 at 16:28:56
Green Lantern
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Posts: 13683
Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: November 12, 2002
Contributor
  Since:
June 17, 2003
Hi I can't help but notice you're referring to Maggies as 'magnestan' are your panels by PG (also referenced prevously)? Thanks-


 

RE: magnestan , posted on February 28, 2017 at 17:29:53
chertok22@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 36
Location: texas
Joined: January 6, 2014
hi. sorry for the error. they are the plain ones. i did research and then conflated a motorcycle pannier called "enduristan" with magestan and typed a brain fart....

 

RE: maggie SMGa water based repair glue options?, posted on March 12, 2017 at 08:39:29
atkin11j
Audiophile

Posts: 93
Location: Nashville, TN
Joined: December 29, 2007
There are two adhesives used in Magnepan construction. The first is to set the wires to the mylar in place. This is the 3m77 of the DAP weldwood stuff. Once this is done then the entire panel is covered in a water based contact adhesive. This is the 3M 30NF Fastbond contact cement, It is water based and Magnepan will not ship it during the winter months.
You can buy the all the materials locally. Home Depot/Lowes sells the spray contact ahedsive and Grainger sells the brush on contact cement.

This is my maggie rebuild page - should hopefully shed some light.

 

RE: maggie SMGa water based repair glue options?, posted on March 12, 2017 at 11:05:33
chertok22@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 36
Location: texas
Joined: January 6, 2014
thanks man!

i'll print it out and start looking for materials.

appreciate it!

jon

 

RE: maggie SMGa water based repair glue options?, posted on March 20, 2017 at 13:52:27
chertok22@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 36
Location: texas
Joined: January 6, 2014
hi man,

your write up is awesome. thanks for the help. it would have been a bit of a pain to wait until april as i had thought i needed to do.

so can i ask you about re-soldering while the screens are off?

can i simply melt the solder and let it melt and then let it re-harden? can i just leave well enough alone? or do i need to get in and re-solder?

also, can i please ask you about "aluminum specific solder" and flux? i guess this is necessary since the /wires/ are aluminum so you need to go with aluminum wire as opposed to what i would use with motorcycle wiring of copper wires?

THANK YOU

jon

 

RE: maggie SMGa water based repair glue options?, posted on March 20, 2017 at 15:48:02
atkin11j
Audiophile

Posts: 93
Location: Nashville, TN
Joined: December 29, 2007
So the big issue with soldering aluminum is the quick oxidation of the metal. I was replacing all the wires on my build so I didn't want to chance it. To much heat and you start melting components around what you are trying to solder.

I would call the folks at Kapp and see what they have, I don't remember specfically what I used or if their product lineup has changed. It wasn't expensive at all and it made soldering really easy.

Copper wires have a lot more mass than aluminum. I would stay away and stick with aluminum.

 

RE: maggie SMGa water based repair glue options?, posted on March 20, 2017 at 16:14:25
chertok22@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 36
Location: texas
Joined: January 6, 2014
ok. so if mine look attached there is no reason to resolver?

or at one point i thought i saw a recommendation to /melt/ the existing solder and just let it set up again (for some reason i don't remember...).

jon

 

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