A sensible no BS analysis of military assets used in recent standoff for technically oriented armchair commanders

Who to believe?, posted on July 5, 2025 at 08:03:37
Mike B. Audiophile Posts: 26979 Location: OR Joined: September 27, 1999 Contributor Since: September 1, 1999	Don't be fooled by YouTube videos. They can sound knowledgeable but in this case are nothing more than a guess on what actually took place.

Exactly. Take the State Department and their stenographer's MSM word for it., posted on July 5, 2025 at 08:33:34
Bobby.Peru@myyahoo.com Audiophile Posts: 256 Joined: March 11, 2025	Because you stand with America, right or wrong.

Click bait for money -nt, posted on July 5, 2025 at 08:52:30
E-Stat Audiophile Posts: 41292 Joined: May 12, 2000 Contributor Since: April 5, 2002

This response from a Russian?, posted on July 5, 2025 at 08:53:55
Mike B. Audiophile Posts: 26979 Location: OR Joined: September 27, 1999 Contributor Since: September 1, 1999	Shame on you Comrade Bobby. Comrade Putin will perhaps give you a fake Kozak fir hat for this one.

Of course it's a guess , posted on July 5, 2025 at 09:44:58

Wojciech
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But that guess isn't noticeably tilted against Israel. Opposite, it prizes its military capabilities and advancement and sophistication of the operation. The fact of Israeli jets flying undisturbed over Iranian territory and Tehran itself was disputed from the beginning of the operation. There is simply no credible proof of it.
Since " unconditional surrender " didn't materialize, the only sensible explanation for a ceasefire is that Israel was getting pounded into parking lot and the risk of US full scale operation in Iran was getting real. US is not ready for full scale operation against Iran at this point.

All day, every day 24-7 , posted on July 5, 2025 at 11:32:10
www.records Audiophile Posts: 6249 Location: SW Missouri Joined: December 22, 2003	Commie

RE: Of course it's a guess , posted on July 5, 2025 at 11:51:30
Mike B. Audiophile Posts: 26979 Location: OR Joined: September 27, 1999 Contributor Since: September 1, 1999	I am not a fan of the Israeli government or a believer of one version or another what they did when they struck Iran. This video describes their guess but presents it like it is true.

Well, we still argue who won WWII , posted on July 5, 2025 at 12:53:37

Wojciech
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but we do know that Israel does not have the weapons available to Imperial Stormtroopers and Stargate franchise.
We do know with certain dose of probability that "totally obliterated" is not reality. Also, the "winning" narrative used by our chief pretty much disappeared after few days along with "unconditional surrender".
With total air dominance we could theoretically bomb Iran into stone age using cheap, low tech heavy bombs . Why didn't we? Because of our tender hearts or values, this having already killed Iranian scientists with their families and neighbors in their sleep? You tell me.
Why we didn't win in Iran having total air dominance ?
Russia does not have and never did have an air dominance in Ukraine and it's a partial reason they are moving ahead one mile per year in their conquest.

Didn't watch video , posted on July 5, 2025 at 13:04:28
jedrider Audiophile Posts: 16048 Location: No. California Joined: December 26, 2003	But, obviously Israel is a perfect target for missiles and that is their overriding problem being a belligerent nation as they are.

Would like to see a similar video..., posted on July 5, 2025 at 14:58:52
asbqnigvkiydrggrrn@nespj.com Audiophile Posts: 1 Joined: July 5, 2025	on how the Israelis successfully completed their amazing pager attack on Iran. And also how the USA was able to actually penetrate Iran's air defense and deliver a decisive blow to their fortified nuclear program... using actual maned fighter planes and GPS/INS guided GBU-57 MOPs with zero defence from Iran. FAFO.

RE: Well, we still argue who won WWII , posted on July 5, 2025 at 15:25:36

tomservo
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"With total air dominance we could theoretically bomb Iran into stone age using cheap, low tech heavy bombs . Why didn't we? Because of our tender hearts or values, this having already killed Iranian scientists with their families and neighbors in their sleep? You tell me."

Ok, my guess is the answer is history and the desired outcome.

Around 50 years ago Iran was a western style country, women were not killed because of not wearing the preferred head rag, female bits were left intact etc and they could go to school and education a good thing.

The long term goal is / was to return them to the modern era and so while daisy cutters border to border would have been fast and produce a clean slate, that was not the goal. Just get rid of the crux of their constant threats of death to Israel and America and the western way of life that the minority of foamers in charge seek..

The past can't be changed except in some people s minds, computer records and on line but the future is yet to be.

The past admin sent them a pallet of cash but that did not buy their friendship or temper their threats and goal or curb the supply to tools for the other terrorists like Hamas.

Then after the election, the greatly feared by the left OHD said to them talk about peace or else.

They, being proud and somewhat primitive chose "else" and OHD did not send more cash to build weapons but an unmistakable and direct gesture and upsetting those who search for things to object to and are hoping that continually crying wolf will again work someday and things will go south

(much like how they wished for an economic collapse last time, so that they could feel like they were right, surely a sign of a serious "programing error" upstairs) .

Thankfully most people have observed and then recognize this strategy from the past and time between and are thinking it's possibly better to see what the outcome actually is than always passing judgement first like so many hostile political pundits.

I can understand this quick to judge approach if one was paid to post a certain way or haven't been here very long, but we do have elections and every 4 years we get the chance to have someone new.

In the past, up until the OHD seemingly moved into their minds and was such a big threat to the Washington way, it has been the tradition for the looser's to suck it up for 4 or 8 years.

All the focus and past OHD media demagoguery and BS literally got him elected.

Now we get to see if he destroys the democracy and economy or were the critics also completely wrong about that too?.

Time will tell either way and as always, we have no choice to but wait and see.

Around 50 years ago Iran was a western style country..., posted on July 5, 2025 at 15:37:32
Bobby.Peru@myyahoo.com Audiophile Posts: 256 Joined: March 11, 2025	You should read about overthrow of the Mohammad Mosaddegh in 1953. "Before its removal from power, his administration introduced a range of social and political measures such as social security, land reforms and higher taxes including the introduction of taxation on the rent of land."

About where we're at now! NT/, posted on July 5, 2025 at 16:21:32
jedrider Audiophile Posts: 16048 Location: No. California Joined: December 26, 2003

RE: Around 50 years ago Iran was a western style country..., posted on July 5, 2025 at 17:50:07
tomservo Manufacturer Posts: 9307 Joined: July 4, 2002	I can't change what happened to someones grampa, only from now forward hasn't happened yet (and writing this is about the limit of what i can do) but unless your a dumb projectile, the trajectory can be changed. Whats the best case outcome here? What would it have been without the deep cleansing?

Just 50 years ago, the US was a western style country..., posted on July 5, 2025 at 18:05:51
Jay Buridan Audiophile Posts: 11671 Location: Michigan Joined: January 21, 2004	. "Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. " ― W.C. Fields

"Just get rid of the crux of their constant threats of death to Israel and America", posted on July 5, 2025 at 19:15:56

Chris from Lafayette
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I tell you, Tom: as far as I'm concerned, Iran can shout "Death to America!" all they want to, as long as they don't engage in the kind of genocide which "our ally", Israel, has been indulging in since October 7 in Gaza right now (and, more broadly in Palestine since the late 40's). Of course, this all happens with our help. It turns my stomach. The British Imperium is of course very much to blame too in their support of European "settlers" in someone else's country - by wiping out the people who were already there.

And it's annoying that you're belly aching that "50 years ago Iran was a western style country". It was more like over 70 years ago. And then we had to overthrow their democratically elected secular leader, Mohammad Mosaddegh - because that was OUR oil in their country. So we installed the Shah, who introduced a repressive authoritarian regime, using goon squad security forces no doubt trained by the CIA. The Iranian people chafed at what we'd done and finally rose up, overthrew the Shah, and the rest is history. IOW, we sowed the wind and reaped the whirlwind. And yet, when these historical facts are pointed out to you (by Bobby.Peru), your response is that you don't want to hear about what happened in your grandfather's time. Rather self-serving, if I may say so.

BTW, Afghanistan was also way more of a secular type of country when the government had Soviet support in the 70's. But Carter and Brzezinski couldn't leave well enough alone - so we had to go in and support Osama bin Laden and his Mujahideen fighting the Soviets. And we all know where that led. We just can't help ourselves from sowing the wind and reaping the whirlwind. Maybe some of our Christian-fundamentalist Israel firsters ought to acquaint themselves better with Hosea 8:7.

Yes - FAFO! I think Israel has been "finding out" in the last couple of weeks [nt], posted on July 5, 2025 at 19:19:32
Chris from Lafayette Audiophile Posts: 28665 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: February 17, 2004 Contributor Since: February 6, 2012

I need a classification banner on each video . . ., posted on July 5, 2025 at 22:06:31
Billy Wonka Audiophile Posts: 4054 Joined: April 25, 2013 Contributor Since: October 15, 2013	The following news report is: Misinformation, Disinformation, or Fake News. There is so much of it around you can build your own morale model with a few quick searches.

Which side asked for a ceasefire? Mullahs or Wonka ? , posted on July 6, 2025 at 04:36:25

Wojciech
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Methinks it was Wonka. The vid is a plausible simulation of a conflict based on available data.
I know you are proud of scientisrs assassinations and exploding pager operation. Your country, your morals.

Significant number of women in my town wear burka. Here in USA. It's their choice.
Iranian social ,political system is not much different then the systems of our regional vassals. The only difference being they are not doing what they are told.

All news, with the exception of Fox News, is fake news to Wonka's of America (nt)., posted on July 6, 2025 at 04:49:35
Bobby.Peru@myyahoo.com Audiophile Posts: 256 Joined: March 11, 2025	Nt

IIRC Zionists asked for a ceasefire, posted on July 6, 2025 at 05:35:37
Jay Buridan Audiophile Posts: 11671 Location: Michigan Joined: January 21, 2004	. "Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. " ― W.C. Fields

Every country has its Fox news. It's necessary , posted on July 6, 2025 at 05:51:10

Wojciech
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To ramp up support for whatever goal apparatus of power needs that support. So called morals have no value in international relationships.
I'm romping around about Gaza here because the West is committing a PR suicide and neither of the Axis countries has to utter a word. They just letting us to drown in blood pretty much silently.
Such things could be done in the era of paper not 5G communication speed.

But we were promised "unconditional surrender " for our money . Where is it ? , posted on July 6, 2025 at 06:03:41
Wojciech Audiophile Posts: 5660 Joined: June 23, 2009	I imagine it's just 3 trillions of $$$ away, right behind the corner.

RE: But we were promised "unconditional surrender " for our money . Where is it ? , posted on July 6, 2025 at 06:06:30
www.records Audiophile Posts: 6249 Location: SW Missouri Joined: December 22, 2003	I'm sure your heartbroken.

RE: Every country has its Fox news. It's necessary , posted on July 6, 2025 at 06:09:39
Bobby.Peru@myyahoo.com Audiophile Posts: 256 Joined: March 11, 2025	It would be different if they were even remotely skeptical. Both MSNBC and Fox News viewers swallow hook, line, and sinker,REPEATEDLY.

RE: But we were promised "unconditional Yu 8surrender " for our money . Where is it ? , posted on July 6, 2025 at 06:14:26
Wojciech Audiophile Posts: 5660 Joined: June 23, 2009	I'm not, because I don't watch fox. You on the other hand should be. Why aren't you? I mean it's a repetitive story with every war in half of a century. Your entire adult life and you still under a spell. Must be a religion. Sadly being raised in socialist/ ☭ regime I never acquired it and even my weekly church routine is just a pretense. You can't acquire it by a logic or desire.

Most Poles still believe Ukraine is winning on the battlefield , posted on July 6, 2025 at 06:35:11
Wojciech Audiophile Posts: 5660 Joined: June 23, 2009	I bet majority of Ukrainians believe US is their best friend. I'm afraid Poles are being groomed to enter the war. Everybody says its impossible and will never happen until it will simply happen and they will be sent away to perish hating ruskies even more.

RE: Who to believe?, posted on July 6, 2025 at 06:39:43
Kirk57 Audiophile Posts: 755 Location: Chicago's North Shore Joined: December 9, 2008	Exactly. YouTube videos are NOT a reliable source of information, since clicks are not generated by boring facts.

RE: Most Poles still believe Ukraine is winning on the battlefield , posted on July 6, 2025 at 08:04:39
Bobby.Peru@myyahoo.com Audiophile Posts: 256 Joined: March 11, 2025	I am not shocked because the EU is the new Iron Curtain. Despite the fact that all U.S. wars were founded on false information, the majority of people on this site share the same belief.

Only the State Department has a firm hold on the facts. , posted on July 6, 2025 at 08:39:22
Bobby.Peru@myyahoo.com Audiophile Posts: 256 Joined: March 11, 2025	You don't have to like YouTube, but have ...-you ever heard of Consortium News, Responsible Statecraft, The Grayzone Unheard, or The American Conservative?

It isn't their choice, posted on July 6, 2025 at 10:05:45
Ozzie Audiophile Posts: 4038 Joined: August 1, 2002	Don't kid yourself.

Nothing compares to Russia Russia Russia. , posted on July 6, 2025 at 10:08:30
Ozzie Audiophile Posts: 4038 Joined: August 1, 2002	Remember, this is the best Joe Biden ever.

RE: Most Poles still believe Ukraine is winning on the battlefield , posted on July 6, 2025 at 10:32:55

tomservo
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"Despite the fact that all U.S. wars were founded on false information, the majority of people on this site share the same belief."

Why sure, we attacked pearl harbor to make people think it was Japan, so we could make and test a new bomb.

I am not sure what people believe about Ukraine or how you tell who is going to win.
But along your lines of thinking, it is Germany that is buying tanks in bulk now and the countries nearer to Russia that appear to be getting ready for something. Maybe they are scared of the bear and a gun is more handy than a camera.

They live in Midwest USA . , posted on July 6, 2025 at 10:47:43

Wojciech
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Their kids go to public schools and they drive cars around the city directly interacting with LGBT+ crowd of youth since it's a pretty raucous community. I'm pretty sure Sharia and traditional Muslim polygamy is rampant in the city. Of course it's their choice.

To quote Quora poster :
"...I have visited both. Just to make it clear, neither country is the poster-child for progressivism and freedom, especially when it comes to women. With that said, Iran is noticeably more progressive, particularly when it comes to women. Iranian women are permitted to vote, hold elected office, drive, and get a university education. Socially, there are still plenty of restrictions, and civil law is still heavily weighted in favor of males. However, Iranian women are allowed to petition for divorce and custody of their children, and abortions are permitted (although heavily restricted). By comparison, Saudi Arabia is stone-age.

In the USA, the state of relations with these countries results in a major bias in the media. Coverage of Saudi Arabia focuses on the positive while coverage of Iran focuses on the negative.

Stick with the narrative , posted on July 6, 2025 at 11:07:27
Bobby.Peru@myyahoo.com Audiophile Posts: 256 Joined: March 11, 2025	It's easier that way. I understand. Enjoy our day.

Are you out of your ever loving mind?, posted on July 6, 2025 at 17:33:35
Ozzie Audiophile Posts: 4038 Joined: August 1, 2002	Everything you posted there is a crock of leftist schiff. That whole line you brought up went down when an Iranian woman was demonstrating in the public square there back in 2009. A sharpshooter took her out. Your hero B. Hussein did nothing. Nothing. If only she was black and the shooter was a white Trump supporter.

Where do you live?, posted on July 6, 2025 at 17:35:16
Ozzie Audiophile Posts: 4038 Joined: August 1, 2002	NT

For that we have to kill at least one million of them,I no less becuase all we care about are women from , posted on July 6, 2025 at 17:51:32
Wojciech Audiophile Posts: 5660 Joined: June 23, 2009	distant lands..There is a scene from a "Highway Men" describing the state of humanity Bonnie and Clyde represented. The collective West led by US is on this level right now. I'm waiting for establishing a "purge holiday" in US. We are ready for it.

RE: Where do you live?, posted on July 6, 2025 at 17:53:25
Wojciech Audiophile Posts: 5660 Joined: June 23, 2009	Little Bangladesh , USA You?

Right , the country which commited genocide on indigenous population by recent BBC report, posted on July 6, 2025 at 18:01:31
Wojciech Audiophile Posts: 5660 Joined: June 23, 2009	I assume a proud member of settler family here? Greetings! I'm also a settler ...

RE: Where do you live?, posted on July 6, 2025 at 18:32:33

Ozzie
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Posts: 4038
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I really feel sorry for you. My father came to the US from Canada back in the early 50s, as he saw where the country was headed. His gggg grandfather was Francis Rllsworth. What dad did not know was his family legacy. One was the first officer of the north to die in the Civil War. Elmer Ellsworth. Another was Oliver Ellsworth, of the Supreme court. Francis was a direct ancestor. What do you have, other than your pissy leftist idea of what my country is sll about. You started me on Canada, as people ip there have similar effed up views as you.

RE: Where do you live?, posted on July 6, 2025 at 18:47:05

Wojciech
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Posts: 5660
Joined: June 23, 2009

I thought you're from Oz.
I'm anything but leftist unless a glimpse of truth is leftist than be it. I'm sorry that you're still at war 200 years later. I have nothing, and my ancestors were simple peasants who were not killing anyone on the other side of the globe for corporate interests or to steal somebody's land. Pity really that they didn't have t in them. Must be potato diet and poor health unlike your kind fed on beef and blood.

Ah, indentured slaves , posted on July 6, 2025 at 18:51:44
Ozzie Audiophile Posts: 4038 Joined: August 1, 2002	An Irish 7 course meal, a baked potato and a 6 pack. Sorry nobody in your clan took it any further than that. But hey, you have high ends audio.

RE: Ah, indentured slaves , posted on July 6, 2025 at 19:47:40
Wojciech Audiophile Posts: 5660 Joined: June 23, 2009	Well, the true pitty is that what the West built for 500 years, US is most likely going to totally fuck up in 50. Unless our Savior will deliver "unconditional surrender" of the Axis of Evil and believe it or not I hope He will. I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but even I am not willing to cut the branch I'm sitting on. I'm not entirely sure of others though.

Dude, it's ok to exhale , posted on July 6, 2025 at 20:27:27
Ozzie Audiophile Posts: 4038 Joined: August 1, 2002	that shit once in a while.

Inmate Central

A sensible no BS analysis of military assets used in recent standoff for technically oriented armchair commanders

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