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Is this a catastrophe?

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Posted on May 20, 2023 at 05:39:10
tweaker456
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The per capita GDP of the US is about $70,000 and the nation debt yearly bill to service the debt is about $2000 per capita.





So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

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Pretty close to what many home owners are looking at..., posted on May 20, 2023 at 06:23:48
Ivan303
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regards their gross income to mortgage interest ratio?

Cost of government borrowing is linked to the Feds continued increase in interest rates, and that may never be 1 1/2% again, ever.

And as per capita GDP may well be $70k, not even half of that is seen by the average worker, let alone the average person.

As 68.2 percent of the total wealth in the United States was owned by the top 10 percent of earners, it's pretty obvious whose money is at risk here.

Most running about like chickens without heads screaming about the debt are just tools of those who actually have the money that's at risk.












First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

You say "service the debt" - what exactly does that mean?, posted on May 20, 2023 at 11:48:50
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Does it mean just keeping up with the interest payment on it?

 

RE: Is this a catastrophe? , posted on May 20, 2023 at 12:02:53
pictureguy
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If i understand correctly, to 'service' the debt is not to Reduce it? You are basically just paying the interest without dinging the principal....

Between debt and inflation, the average US citizen will be in near-poverty status before the end of this century.

Give politicians an 'infinite' credit card and you got problems.....
Too much is never enough

 

RE: "the average US citizen will be in near-poverty status before the end of this century", posted on May 20, 2023 at 12:28:44
Ivan303
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I'd argue that they already are...

Key word: 'near'.

And it has little to do with debt or inflation but the continuing shift of wealth from the middle to the top (the bottom has nothing left to 'shift').

As the chart above shows, starting somewhere near the end of the Clinton presidency, the national debt has grown by leaps and bounds.

And yet during ALL of that time, 20 odd years, inflation has remained near nonexistent(3% on average?). In fact, that's been pretty much the case since the end of the 80's?





The direct link of national debt to inflation seems a weak one.







First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: Is this a catastrophe? , posted on May 20, 2023 at 12:47:43
Story
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end of century? I think it will be sooner than that



 

Most large enterprises carry debt: is that bad?, posted on May 20, 2023 at 14:00:28
Feanor
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Stable, moderately successful corporations carry pretty much as much debt as they can because it means that shareholders get all the up-side, (and the downside too of course but that's not why the corps carry the debt).

Typically corporate debt is rolled over, NOT repaid in full. On the contrary, the debt is planned to increase with the growth of the enterprise.

How then is national debt so different from corporate debt?



Dmitri Shostakovich

 

RE: "the average US citizen will be in near-poverty status before the end of this century", posted on May 20, 2023 at 15:35:13
pictureguy
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Next up would be a discussion of The Printing Press and the role of M1 in inflation.....

money supply is way UP which always fuels this nonsense.....
Too much is never enough

 

RE: "the average US citizen will be in near-poverty status before the end of this century", posted on May 20, 2023 at 16:10:05
Will you someday get past econ 101?

 

Not when you consider..., posted on May 21, 2023 at 03:08:44
dark_dave56
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...how much the average household pays in annual interest on credit cards, home mortgages, car loans/leases, and other personal debts. I know lots of people that pay more than $2,000 per year to service their own personal/household debt.

Besides that, the old addage "it takes money to make money" is true. Regardless of what sort of business endeavor you are involved with, at some point you will end-up borrowing money to succeed/expand.

Debt is (in and of itself) not necessarily a "bad" thing, if properly managed/maintained. It's more of a fact of life, both for individuals and businesses. The problems arise when excessive or irresponsible spending gets out of control.


"And today is for sale and it's all you can afford. Buy your own admission. The whole things got you bored. Well the Lord chooses the good ones, and the bad ones use the Lord"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP

 

RE: "the average US citizen will be in near-poverty status before the end of this century", posted on May 21, 2023 at 05:28:51
tomservo
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A nice explanation of inflation and debt so far as the economy;

 

RE: Not when you consider..., posted on May 21, 2023 at 10:26:30
pictureguy
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Yes, Dark......And some businesses make regular short term loans to cover certain expenses.

But the US sytem of continuous spending over income is a recipe for ultimate disaster....

I think part of the problem is that for a 'normal' household, between inflation and taxation, it is just nearly impossible to close the gap....
And we are fighting 'expectations', too. People tend to Expect to live a certain way and may finance it via credit. We....wife and I....went thru a period where we ran up bills but are now substantially going the other way.

It'd be Easy to simply 'blame the government' and I WILL. They have never met a dollar they didn't think they could spend better than the earner. On somebody else. And without thought for ultimate 'fitness' of the purchase.

your conclusion about 'irresponsible spending' is very correct.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Not when you consider..., posted on May 21, 2023 at 11:22:42
tweaker456
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Right as usual pg. All that money the government spends to help feed and house people, to provide for the aged, to provide for defense, to defeat Tojo and Hitler, to do medical research...... Total waste of money without any thought what so ever. Brilliant "thinking" on your part. Real genius stuff.




So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

It's still an extreme right facist explanation, posted on May 21, 2023 at 11:50:53
I'm sure Rod is good with that and it's how you both roll.

 

RE: Not when you consider..., posted on May 22, 2023 at 14:26:19
pictureguy
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You can cherry pick all you want.
I don't have the time, inclination or energy to go thru your shotgun reply on a point-by-point basis.

Defeat of Hiter? Good idea. So, while we were defeating Hitler, why did we give MAO a pass? He, after all, might be the largest Mass Murderer in histor with a total of around 60 Million persons...

Governemnt has been fighting 'poverty' for 70 or 80 years and it has not helped more than microscopically. Throwing money at a problem might make some feel 'better', but does not address root causes. Maybe education? Family 'values'? (even poor Asian families do well at educating the kids)
I might refer you to the Milton Freedman video (see you tube...but I know you won't) on the 4 ways to spend money.

US spends more on defense than maybe the next 10 spenders combined. More?
But still and all, it is a small part of our GDP....compared to many other countries
Much spending is 'under the radar', being stuff like DARPA and 200$ toilet seats. A real total would be difficult to get to. China? Even worse since so many corporations and entities are owned whole or in part by the PLA (Peoples Liberation Army)

And Tweaker? Please read what Dark originally wrote. We must distinguish individual and family spending from government. I can't print money and if I borrow to excess? It'll either be bankruptcy or no more borrowing. Gov simply prints more, inflates the currency and than spends MORE again.

One other minor point. Some have pointed to the vast amount of WEALTH held by the upper 1% or even 5% of those filing tax returns. Fortunately or not, the US does not tax Wealth. Only Income...from whatever source derived.
California is working on some kind of Wealth Tax. A more equitable tax system would certainly help but would only be temporary since the history of government spending is to always spend more than any increase in revenue.
Last year, expenditures exceeded 'income' (as if they produced anything) by well over 1 Trillion $$.

Too much is never enough

 

RE: Not when you consider..., posted on May 22, 2023 at 14:57:00
tweaker456
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You can use logical fallacies and falsehoods and utter nonsense all you want. Unfortunately I can't stop you, much to my chagrin.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

Ask me again next week, posted on May 22, 2023 at 15:59:44
Jay Buridan
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If Congress doesn't raise the debt ceiling.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

RE: Not when you consider..., posted on May 22, 2023 at 16:02:41
pictureguy
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Do something different or continue on the same path?

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome....

And what did I say that was wrong? You may not like it, and I don't either, but the government is a horribly inefficient way to allocate scare resources.....like Money....which contrary to governemt behavior, does not grow on trees....


Too much is never enough

 

RE: Most large enterprises carry debt: is that bad?, posted on May 22, 2023 at 16:23:30
pictureguy
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The product of corporations is something your or I may purchase. The product of government is not.
Government does not show a profit or expect one. Bonds are paid off with future tax revenue.

Corporations issue stock from which stockholders expect either growth, perhaps an increase in value, or a regular dividend. Companies like INTEL seem to be cyclic. Huge investment in manufacturing equipment to make the next generation of CPU, the profits from which fuel the generation after. Semiconductor equipment is off-scale expensvie and a complete manufacturing facility costs Billions.


You are right about corporate debt. But some companies carry debt to make themselves Less attractive to some form of corporate raiding or takeover. I don't know how common that approach is. Some debt is short-term and might be repaid on that basis....PLEASE see link I provide. They get into more depth than I can manage....
the company I worked for bought a lot of its own stock at one point.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Percent of US government revenue spent to service it's debt, posted on May 22, 2023 at 19:34:05
tweaker456
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 united states interest payments percent of revenue wb data


It is pretty clear from this chart that the USA was doomed in 1986 when this chart clearly shows an impending catastrophe. Doomed I tell you!




So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Percent of US government revenue spent to service it's debt, posted on May 22, 2023 at 22:15:05
pictureguy
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If doomed we are to be, I doubt it's gonna be ONE thing, but a perfect storm of greed and stupidity.

Maybe the government should consider limiting itself to those things clearly called out in the Constitution?
While the other 'things' are reserved to the states or respectively the People.....
The 9th and 10th amendments are not 'recommendations', they are in the Bill Of Rights and theoretically need to be taken seriously....

The legal Convolutions done to acrcue yet more power to the Federal Government makes me ill.....
And some of it, perhaps, can be laid at the feet of Hamilton...

did you know it was ILLEGAL for a farmer to grow grain on his own farm for his own internal use...like livestock feeding and for seed? Yep.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: It's still an extreme right facist explanation, posted on May 22, 2023 at 22:25:41
pictureguy
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This might help.
A video of Milton Friedman discussing 'The 4 Ways To Spend Money'.......

Very simple and accessible....
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Percent of US government revenue spent to service it's debt, posted on May 23, 2023 at 09:53:41
tweaker456
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Yeah, let's go back to hangers and hangings.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Percent of US government revenue spent to service it's debt, posted on May 23, 2023 at 12:00:15
pictureguy
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The Constitution is the Final Arbiter of what is legal, right and wrong. If you do not follow that, you've got a form of 2-party mob rule......

9th and 10th amendments clearly calls out Federal Limits. No amount of twisting the language will make some of the stuff they do constitutional.

Having the various states maybe not agree, is a wonderful way to find easiest or best ways to accomplish some things.

To maybe give a non-partisan example? How do Executive Orders have the force of law for anything but the executive branch? President IS after all, the 'Chief Executive'.....which is only 1 of 3 branches. I support his running his branch. But the LAW part of the executive is a Congressiona function followed by any court cases and eventually, in some cases, as far as the Supreme Court.
An executive order which effectively changes the written law, IMO should not be enforceable....
Too much is never enough

 

"You can use logical fallacies...", posted on May 23, 2023 at 12:52:15
Krav Maga
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"You can use logical fallacies..."

Hmmm.

"All that money the government spends to help feed and house people, to provide for the aged, to provide for defense, to defeat Tojo and Hitler, to do medical research......"

Cherry picking is a logical fallacy, but you knew that.


From Wikipedia: "Cherry picking, suppressing evidence, or the fallacy of incomplete evidence is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position while ignoring a significant portion of related and similar cases or data that may contradict that position."



"All thoughts are prey to some beast" - Bill Callahan

"I'll be your mirror
Reflect what you are" - Lou Reed

"Blind belief in authority is the greatest enemy of truth." - Albert Einstein

 

We're running a huge brain deficit, it appears. nt, posted on May 23, 2023 at 13:17:16
jedrider
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Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, posted on May 23, 2023 at 15:33:43
Jay Buridan
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Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 4 confirmed the legitimacy of all public debt appropriated by the Congress. It also confirmed that neither the United States nor any state would pay for the loss of slaves or debts that had been incurred by the Confederacy. For example, during the Civil War several British and French banks had lent large sums of money to the Confederacy to support its war against the Union.[210] In Perry v. United States (1935), the Supreme Court ruled that under Section 4 voiding a United States bond "went beyond the congressional power."[211]

The debt-ceiling crises of 2011, 2013, and 2023 raised the question of what the President's authority under Section 4 is.[212][213][214][215] During the 2011 crisis, former President Bill Clinton said he would invoke the Fourteenth Amendment to raise the debt ceiling if he were still in office, and force a ruling by the Supreme Court.[216]

Some, such as legal scholar Garrett Epps, fiscal expert Bruce Bartlett and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, have argued that a debt ceiling may be unconstitutional and therefore void as long as it interferes with the duty of the government to pay interest on outstanding bonds and to make payments owed to pensioners (that is, Social Security and Railroad Retirement Act recipients).[217][218]
Legal analyst Jeffrey Rosen has argued that Section 4 gives the President unilateral authority to raise or ignore the national debt ceiling, and that if challenged the Supreme Court would likely rule in favor of expanded executive power or dismiss the case altogether for lack of standing.[219]
Professor and constitutional scholar Laurence Tribe argues that it is not a matter of Presidential power but Presidential duty—to enforce already legislated laws and payments—that obligates the President, when confronting two incompatible mandates (the 14th amendment versus the debt ceiling created by Second Liberty Bond Act of 1917), to choose that which is not only in keeping with his Constitutional duty to execute laws Congress has passed that have created debt but also in mind of the pragmatic consequences to the security and well-being of the United States.[220]
Erwin Chemerinsky, professor and dean at University of California, Irvine School of Law, has argued that not even in a "dire financial emergency" could the President raise the debt ceiling as "there is no reasonable way to interpret the Constitution that [allows him to do so]."[221]
Jack Balkin, Knight Professor of Constitutional Law at Yale University, opined that like Congress the President is bound by the Fourteenth Amendment, for otherwise, he could violate any part of the amendment at will. Because the President must obey the Section 4 requirement not to put the validity of the public debt into question, Balkin argued that President Obama would have been obliged "to prioritize incoming revenues to pay the public debt, interest on government bonds and any other 'vested' obligations. What falls into the latter category is not entirely clear, but a large number of other government obligations—and certainly payments for future services—would not count and would have to be sacrificed. This might include, for example, Social Security payments."[213]

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

RE: Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, posted on May 23, 2023 at 16:06:59
pictureguy
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Thank YOU Jay!

Good stuff and some may argue as an excuse (Reason?) for a 'balanced Budget Amendment' which would clearly supercede most 'debt ceiling' arguements.....

The last line concerning abrogation of SS payments? Wouldn't have happened if they had left SS OFF BUDGET with its own accounting scheme. As soon as the parasites put SS 'on budget' they had access to yet more money to spend while writing an IOU to the SS 'trust fund'...whatever That is.


Too much is never enough

 

RE: "You can use logical fallacies...", posted on May 23, 2023 at 16:26:41
pictureguy
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I wish we could safely talk about the issue, without any name calling whatsoever.

this is overall a pretty bright group with diverse backgrounds. Some here I know do not participate for whatever reason. But that input would be valued, too....

I wish I knew how to not use examples to prove or support a position or case. If I do, I could be guilty of cherry picking. But a complete run down of tax law and returns? sleep inducing.


Too much is never enough

 

RE: It's still an extreme right facist explanation, posted on May 23, 2023 at 18:13:22
Rod M
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Contributor
  Since:
March 1, 1999
Mike, I've asked you in the past, don't mention my name about anything that you don't know about me. I have nothing to do with this thread or post, so don't get me into it.

You have no idea how I roll.

And, animus toward people is against the rules here.

Stick to debate in a civil and logical way. Don't resort to straw men and personal attacks.

Thanks.

-Rod

 

NIH Budget., posted on May 23, 2023 at 23:01:09
pictureguy
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Joined: October 19, 2008
Runs to a mere 45 Billion, give or take. Latest budget request a tick over 50 Billion...
and is still maybe 1 1/2% of fed budget.....

NIH does some good work and I'd say without further digging, to get reasonable value....

In order to make total sense of this, I'd need to know how much Private funding goes to the same or similar ends.

This is less than the cosst of federal regulation on the economy.....which I'll leave YOU to look up since it is a shocking sum.....Perhaps as much as 2 Trillion annually....

Too much is never enough

 

RE: "You can use logical fallacies...", posted on May 24, 2023 at 05:23:32
tweaker456
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Krav,please explain what you mean by me cherry picking in general and specifically in this situation and how it rises to the level of a logical fallacy in relation to my argument that much of Federal spending is spent with thought and used for a good purpose. Thanks in advance. Tweaker456




So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: "You can use logical fallacies...", posted on May 24, 2023 at 17:18:40
Krav Maga
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You stated: "All that money the government spends to help feed and house people, to provide for the aged, to provide for defense, to defeat Tojo and Hitler, to do medical research...... Total waste of money without any thought what so ever."


In the context of 'irresponsible spending' as stated by pictureguy, you are cherry picking by only presenting the "positives" (what I imagine you would call responsible spending) while not acknowledging the negatives of government spending, the 'irresponsible spending'.


Just a few examples of government 'irresponsible spending':


From The Nation article "The Pentagon's Irresponsible Spending Is Now Dangerous":

"Pentagon waste is a long-standing issue in desperate need of meaningful action. Last November, the Department of Defense once again failed to pass even a basic audit, as it had several times before. In fact, independent auditors weren't even able to assess the Pentagon's full financial picture because they couldn't gather all the necessary information to complete an evaluation. In some ways, that should have been devastating, the equivalent of a child receiving an incomplete on an end-of-year report card. No less alarming, the Pentagon couldn't even account for about 61% of its $3.5 trillion in assets. Yet the last Congress still approved $858 billion in defense programs for fiscal year 2023, a full $45 billion more than even the Biden administration requested.

Spending levels aside, poor financial management has a serious negative impact on both service members and taxpayers. Last month, for example, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) revealed that the Pentagon can't account for at least $220 billion worth of its property, including such basics as ammunition, missiles, torpedoes, and their component parts. For its part, Congress (and so the average taxpayer) doesn't have the faintest idea how much it's spent on weapons or their components distributed to contractors for maintenance and upgrades. Worse, the GAO reports that the $220 billion in unaccounted-for equipment and parts is "likely significantly understated." "


From the CNBC article "The federal government wastes at least $247 billion in taxpayer money each year. Here's how":
( https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/18/heres-how-the-federal-government-wastes-tax-money.html )

"The U.S. government wastes billions of taxpayer dollars every year.

Improper payments, which refer to payments that are made incorrectly by the government, cost the U.S. $247 billion in 2022, according to the Government Accountability Office. The U.S. government has lost almost $2.4 trillion in simple payment errors over the last two decades, by GAO estimates."


We are all capable of making logical fallacies. Recognizing them makes us better thinkers, does it not?



"All thoughts are prey to some beast" - Bill Callahan

"I'll be your mirror
Reflect what you are" - Lou Reed

"Blind belief in authority is the greatest enemy of truth." - Albert Einstein

 

RE: We're running a huge brain deficit, it appears. nt, posted on May 24, 2023 at 17:47:20
pictureguy
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People tend to prepare for the jobs that WERE.

Those who prepare for the future are less shocked by it when it inevitably happens.....
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Not when you consider..., posted on May 24, 2023 at 17:55:03
pictureguy
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You attack ME while no refutation much of what I wrote......
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Not when you consider..., posted on May 24, 2023 at 19:02:48
tweaker456
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Right as usual pg. All that money the government spends to help feed and house people, to provide for the aged, to provide for defense, to defeat Tojo and Hitler, to do medical research...... Total waste of money without any thought what so ever. Brilliant "thinking" on your part. Real genius stuff.



So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

Surplus SS funds must be invested in US Treasury securities, posted on May 24, 2023 at 19:36:52
Jay Buridan
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US Treasury securities are deemed to be the safest investments, much safer than, e.g., loaning the surplus to Maralago Mussolini on a promissory note.

AFAIK, if the government defaults SS checks will stop being issued. And interest rates will climb to reflect the fact that US Treasury securities will have become risky investments.

It's complicated (see link below.)


"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

But businesses aren't run by political ideologues., posted on May 24, 2023 at 19:40:16
Jay Buridan
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And fascists.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

RE: Surplus SS funds must be invested in US Treasury securities, posted on May 24, 2023 at 19:59:41
pictureguy
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Complicated, but still a way for 'them' to get at and spend the money rather than somehow isolating it (sequester?) for the intended use......
As it turns out? Workers pay into SS and the government pays interestest on the money borrowed and spent which is still obligated TO SS.....

Kicking the can down the road, done large. Your link says 2 Trillion$ plus.....that ain't chump change.
Too much is never enough

 

Let's hope 'they' don't default, posted on May 24, 2023 at 21:10:05
Jay Buridan
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Posts: 10283
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P.S. We are 'they'...

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

RE: But businesses aren't run by political ideologues., posted on May 25, 2023 at 03:55:07
Well maybe Larry Ellison and Peter Thiel could be the exceptions.

 

RE: Let's hope 'they' don't default, posted on May 25, 2023 at 13:17:23
pictureguy
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Point taken, Jay.

WE are US and the default will belong to us ALL. And we will all pay the price as stuff like my retirement goes to crap and inflation goes thru the roof and who knows WHAT other potentials.

Unintended Consequences rule......
Too much is never enough

 

Ken Fisher (fisherinvestments) says there is no such thing as default, posted on May 25, 2023 at 13:41:20
Story
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I'm not Ken Fisher so don't ask me what the hell that means, but whatever it is, it's still going to be bad. If I and others were to default that would be a different story



 

Re: We are 'they', posted on May 25, 2023 at 15:12:27
Inmate51
Industry Professional

Posts: 2239
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Joined: August 12, 2022
If only it were that simple.

Do you think Joe Biden, Chuck Schumer, or Kevin McCarthy cares one whit what you or I tell them to do?

"They" are "they", and it pisses me off that we pay them to do a job, and THEY can't figure out how to do it.

Reduce spending and raise the credit card limit. What's hard to understand about doing that?

*********

We are inclusive and diverse, but dissent will not be tolerated.

 

Agreed, but billionaires should not be required to pay taxes..., posted on May 25, 2023 at 18:14:39
Jay Buridan
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Joined: January 21, 2004
Yust yoking.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

Don't give any credence to what Ken Fisher says, posted on May 25, 2023 at 18:28:06
Jay Buridan
Audiophile

Posts: 10283
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
He's probably selling off his investments this evening. He just wants to beat everyone to the punch.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

RE: Agreed, but billionaires should not be required to pay taxes..., posted on May 25, 2023 at 20:36:36
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
Politcians are very 'beholdin' to voters up until the MINUTE they are sworn to office, than they do as they please......Or rather as they are TOLD by the big $$ doners, party chiefs and paid staff.....

Billionaires? Top 1% of returns pay about 26% while the bottom HALF are overall at about 3.1%
Average return? Around 13%.
Top !% own a very large percentage of WEALTH of the country. Wealth is not taxed. Income is taxed.... Someone who owns a multi-million $ art collection? Not taxed until sold....than who knows? But wealthy people DO pay property tax. Here in California, if you own a million $ house? Maybe a thousand a month in property tax....1.25%......
Prop 13 ONLY in California protects against rapid increases in property value causing 'eviction by taxation'....

Too much is never enough

 

RE: Don't give any credence to what Ken Fisher says, posted on May 25, 2023 at 20:51:38
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
When you quit paying your bills, I'd say you are in default.

It is the method that bugs me. Using this as a wedge issue is EVIL in the extreme. Especially when the opportunity exists to fix it once and write a law which would cover this situation than reduce spending by some formula where all bear the burden equally......

Having a section of the budget called 'entitlements' which is essentially off-limits is intellectually dishonest....And a form of pandering for votes.....

A question to be answered? Does the government pass laws encouraging dependence or to people demand services which makes them dependent?////
Too much is never enough

 

maybe don't believe anything from anybody then. That leaves us TF, posted on May 26, 2023 at 02:50:15
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 10453
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
truly fucked because it takes much too long the verify anything whatsoever. They are a fiduciary institution - " Individuals with fiduciary responsibility are legally obligated to act in their clients' best interests instead of their own "

get me off this fucking planet



 

RE: "the average US citizen will be in near-poverty status before the end of this century", posted on May 26, 2023 at 13:01:47
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
Tell me I'm wrong.
or better yet?
Explain why what appears an obvious coorelation is not correct.

Milton Friedman supports this idea and is not the only one.....

Now? to be honest, I'm not a big fan of 'single cause' anything. Events are driven by multiple causes.
So, If you wanted to ADD to the causes of inflation? Sure......What is on your list? I'd add some kind of corporate / industrial reason. Call it whatever you want. Even Greed would work.....

Does government spending also play a role in inflation? I'd say yes...to the extent that expenditures exceed income by more than 1% or so......a reasonable rate of inflation...
Too much is never enough

 

RE: "You can use logical fallacies...", posted on May 27, 2023 at 21:04:13
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
Krav?
I live in California. We have a 'high speed rail authority' which is in process of spending untold billions on a project originally pegged at just a 'few' billion. Cost is now up to 120+ billion and is about 100 billion 'short' of funding.

Costs continue to rise and prospective ridershsip Fall......I'm making the cost NOW at about 3000$ per person for every man, woman and child in the state of about 40 Million persons....

I'd LOVE to get a go-fund-me page together and HIRE a forensic accounting firm to dig thru the books of that operation.....
But I'll bet I'd be met by armed guards at the door, preventing any 'unauthorized' access followed by some reference to the public accounting......which I don't necessarily believe.....
Too much is never enough

 

All our best and brightest went to Trump University, posted on May 31, 2023 at 16:50:10
Jay Buridan
Audiophile

Posts: 10283
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

RE: Ask me again next week, posted on May 31, 2023 at 18:10:57
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
Happy about debt ceiling increase?

Only about 12,000$ PER PERSON for every Citizen....

Will NOBODY stop those fools in Washington?

I'm watching 'speeches' and about 20% of those in attendance are asleep, another 20% don't care and the remainder held out for some pork for their own district or state.....
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Fools in Washington DC, posted on June 1, 2023 at 09:28:15
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7741
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020

Why Is The U.S. Dollar So Strong Right Now?
Wayne Duggan




So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Fools in Washington DC, posted on June 1, 2023 at 09:34:58
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7741
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
Dollar is now worth about 138 Yen. Was down to about 77 Yen in 2012. Me, I loves those greenbacks. The more the merrier.
Tim Johnson Presents -- The Cream of the Crap 2022 MAD Auction - Vol. 3


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: We must stop the fools in Wash. DC before it's too late, posted on June 1, 2023 at 09:40:20
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7741
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
The US dollar, AKA the greenback is now worth about 240 Argentinean pesos. It was worth about 3 pesos circa 2005. Have I mentioned lately how much I loves the greenback? The greenback speakas my kinda lingo.




So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: STOP THE FOOLS BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, posted on June 1, 2023 at 09:55:48
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7741
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
I don't want to have to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge. And thank dawg that the GG bridge is not in the cross-hairs of US made and taxpayer funded rockets. The US dollar, AKA the mighty greenback was worth 29.63 ruSSian rubles in Dec of 2003. Now, it worth about 81 rubles.

SAVE THE GREENBACK!
frog, greenback, tree frog, tropical, rainforest, rain forest, animal Stock  Photo - Alamy





So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: STOP THE FOOLS BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, posted on June 1, 2023 at 22:43:53
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
I didn't even think the Ruble had ANY foreign exchange value.......

And just think, I can have 100 of 'em for only a buck and a quarter.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Fools in Washington DC, posted on June 1, 2023 at 22:52:33
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
Good article that makes sense.......Good link......
Too much is never enough

 

Exchange Rate, posted on June 2, 2023 at 05:00:03
Inmate51
Industry Professional

Posts: 2239
Location: Dallas, TX
Joined: August 12, 2022
Way back in the 1970s, while in Romania, we used to joke that a guy could get 100 'lays' per dollar. Now, we can only get five.

(The Leu (plural Lei) is the Romanian currency.)

*********

We are inclusive and diverse, but dissent will not be tolerated.

 

RE: Exchange Rate, posted on June 2, 2023 at 09:38:52
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7741
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
The dollar at it's lowest against the Leu in 2007 bought 2.26 Leus. Now it buys 4.43 Leus. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. Have I mentioned lately how much I just loves the greenback? Just one more example why. Thanks for pointing it out 51.





So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Is this a catastrophe? , posted on June 6, 2023 at 13:54:03
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
#456?
Aren't you concerned that the US $$ is a Fiat currency with no intrinsic value?
Too much is never enough

 

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