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The science behind the mask and vaccine wars

73.116.103.52

Posted on September 10, 2021 at 07:45:20
jdaniel@jps.net
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"Humans are equipped with some of evolution's finest mental circuitry to protect us from changing our minds when doing so might alienate us from our group," Jonathan Rauch observes in his new book, The Constitution of Knowledge. "We have hundreds of thousands of years of practice at believing whatever will keep us in good standing with our tribe, even if that requires denying, discounting, rationalizing, misperceiving, and ignoring the evidence in front of our nose."

 

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Straight from the manufacturer in plain English, posted on September 10, 2021 at 09:12:33
emailtim
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Did you request and read the pharmaceutical's vaccine pamphlet before blindly taking the jab(s) ???


N95 mask filtration is rated at 0.3 microns and larger (right side of the red line). Viruses are on the left side of the red line.

Graph complements of Batman.

 

Have you?, posted on September 10, 2021 at 10:10:14
Batman
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For one thing ear loop masks are NOT meant to prevent infection, they're meant to prevent transmission . There is a difference.

What do you expect is in the manufacturer's pamphlet that would dissuade anyone from taking the vaccine; Other than a few contraindicating conditions

Pfizer Vaccine Fact Sheet

Pfizer full prsescsribing information


 

The standard is clear about their untended use., posted on September 10, 2021 at 11:09:50
G Squared
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I participated directly in the development of this standard. We purposely used language to make it clear that this primary purpose of facial barriers is source control. Else we would have used terminology from respiratory personal protection equipment standards.

My personal view - If we can not tolerate a little discomfort (wear the mask) to protect our family, friends and neighbors, we may not deserve to survive as a species.

From the standard:


1. Scope

1.1 This specification is primarily intended to help ensure barrier face coverings meeting the stated requirements provide (1) a means of source control for individual wearers by reducing the number of expelled droplets and aerosols from the wearer's nose and mouth into the air; and (2) to potentially offer a degree of particulate filtration to reduce the amount of inhaled particulate matter by the wearer.

NOTE 1: The source control/protection provided by barrier face coverings depends on several factors not considered in this specification, such as material degradation from wearer challenges including perspiration, talking, sneezing, and the length of time the barrier face covering is worn. Further research is needed to expand the evidence base for the protective effect of face coverings and, in particular, to identify the combinations of materials that maximize both their blocking and filtering effectiveness, as well as fit, comfort, durability, and consumer appeal. (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html.)

NOTE 2: There are currently no established methods for measuring outward leakage from a barrier face covering, medical mask, or respirator. Nothing in this standard addresses or implies a quantitative assessment of outward leakage and no claims can be made about the degree to which a barrier face covering reduces emission of human-generated particles.

1.2 This specification establishes minimum design, performance (testing), labeling, user instruction, reporting and classification, and conformity assessment requirements for barrier face coverings.

1.2.1 Design criteria include setting minimum areas of face coverage over the wearer's nose and mouth, prohibiting open vents or valves, requiring a means for retaining the barrier face covering on the wearer's head, and providing a representation of product sizing. Manufacturers are further required to perform a design analysis for assessing leakage of exhaled air from the barrier face covering. Manufacturers are permitted to conduct quantitative testing as specified in this standard to supplement the design analysis.

1.2.2 Performance and testing criteria define minimum barrier face covering filtration efficiency and airflow resistance performance properties. Sub-micron particulate filtration efficiency represents the ability to capture and reduce respirable droplets and aerosols that potentially contain viruses and bacteria. Airflow resistance represents the wearer's ease of breathing or breathability while wearing the barrier face covering. The impact of repeated cleaning or laundering on continued performance is applied for measuring performance properties for those barrier face coverings that are intended to be reusable. Manufacturers are permitted to also provide test results for bacterial filtration efficiency (BFE) as supplemental information to the mandatory performance measurement of sub-micron particulate filtration efficiency.

NOTE 3: The principal performance criteria for barrier face covering determined by testing are sub-micron particle filtration efficiency and airflow resistance. Quantitative leakage assessment testing is optional for information purposes and is not required. This testing is not likely to be representative of outward leakage from the barrier face covering and should not be claimed to represent the amount of source control offered by the face covering. Bacterial filtration efficiency testing is also optional and not required. It is significantly different than sub-micron filtration efficiency, and the results of BFE testing cannot be interchanged or directly compared. The scope of this standard does not include accessories to barrier face coverings.

1.2.3 Labelling requirements specify the minimum content for labels that appear on the barrier face covering, its immediate packaging, and if different, point-of-sale packaging.

1.2.4 User instructions are required to guide selection and sizing, proper use (positioning and adjustment), and care including cleaning or laundering if product reuse is intended; inform on product cautions and limitations; and describe product replacement and disposal procedures.

1.2.5 Conformity assessment is demonstrated following Guide F3050, Annex A3, Model A to issue a declaration of conformity indicating that each barrier face covering labelled as compliant has met all of the requirements of this standard specification including design criteria, performance criteria, test methods, labelling, and user information. Additionally, conformance to this standard requires that sub-micron particulate filtration efficiency and airflow resistance tests have been performed by a laboratory accredited for conducting these tests.

1.3 This specification addresses all barrier face coverings and only barrier face coverings that are intended for either a single use (disposable) or multiple uses (reusable).

1.4 This specification does not address the unique additional performance attributes of barrier face coverings that exist for certain applications, such as flame-resistant apparel used in environments where there are flame, high heat, electrical arc, or related hazards, but does recommend that barrier face coverings also conform to other standards as applicable.

1.5 This specification does not address the use of antimicrobial or antiviral materials, finishes, or mechanisms.

NOTE 4: The use of antimicrobial materials, finishes, or mechanisms is generally subject to regulatory oversight by government agencies, including the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and U.S. Food and Drug Administration in the United States, which applies additional safety and efficacy requirements to these products. See 5.1.2 for the requirement of nontoxic and non-irritating materials used in the construction of barrier face coverings.

1.6 This specification does not address requirements for medical face masks, which are covered in Specification F2100.

1.7 Nothing in this specification is intended to contradict or replace criteria that are established in 42 CFR Part 84 for air-purifying respirators or requirements for use of respirators in accordance with 29 CFR 1910.134.

1.8 Nothing in this specification is intended to imply that barrier face coverings qualify as approved respiratory protection devices or have FDA clearance for use in a healthcare setting.

1.9 Nothing in this specification is intended to imply that barrier face coverings should be placed on very young children (<2 years), anyone who has trouble breathing, or anyone who is unconscious, incapacitated, or otherwise unable to remove barrier face coverings without assistance.

1.10 The values stated in SI units or in other units shall be regarded separately as standard. The values stated in each system must be used independently of the other, without combining values in any way.

1.11 This standard does not purport to address all of the safety concerns, if any, associated with its use. It is the responsibility of the user of this standard to establish appropriate safety, health, and environmental practices and determine the applicability of regulatory limitations prior to use.

1.12 This international standard was developed in accordance with internationally recognized principles on standardization established in the Decision on Principles for the Development of International Standards, Guides and Recommendations issued by the World Trade Organization Technical Barriers to Trade (TBT) Committee.


Gsquared

 

Exactly!, posted on September 10, 2021 at 11:12:09
Batman
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Excellent!


 

OK - yes I wear a mask when I'm out in public. . . , posted on September 10, 2021 at 11:45:47
Chris from Lafayette
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. . . or dealing with other people in enclosed spaces (e.g., music rehearsals or recordings).

However, I had a very interesting experience earlier this week as I was returning to my car after shopping. Sitting not too far from my car was a woman smoking cigarettes like a chimney. As I walked past (still with my N95 mask on) I got a VERY strong whiff of her cigarette smoke, which lasted for a good 30 seconds. I started to wonder, "What's up with this? - just how small are those cigarette smoke particulates anyway that they could get through my mask?".

I'd be grateful if anyone here could explain this.

 

For the record, Chris, I use an N95 mask when I'm spraying lacquer., posted on September 10, 2021 at 11:51:48
ghost of olddude55
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And having shot lacquer without a mask and also done with one of those things with the rubber mouth/nose cover and the twin filters, the N95 does a fine job of stopping that paint from getting in my lungs.
If it can stop lacquer paint, it can stop somebody else's snot.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

And I wonder if there will need to be another reminder that the virus travels on respiratory droplets, posted on September 10, 2021 at 11:53:54
jdaniel@jps.net
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the latter of which even a T-shirt mask can catch?

 

But do you still smell the lacquer with your mask on? [nt], posted on September 10, 2021 at 11:55:30
Chris from Lafayette
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I don't wear a mask at all anymore unless required, and when I do, it's just doubled- up cloth, , posted on September 10, 2021 at 11:56:27
jdaniel@jps.net
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to protect others.

 

Slightly., posted on September 10, 2021 at 11:57:29
ghost of olddude55
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I don't really get a strong smell until I've cleaned up and reassembled the air brush. At that point, I remove the mask.
FWIW, back in the day when I used the big fancy mask (after I made myself seriously ill breathing paint fumes), I could also detect a faint whiff of lacquer while I was spraying.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

I've got brand new N95 masks and I keep one in the car at all times., posted on September 10, 2021 at 11:58:34
ghost of olddude55
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I don't go into stores or any enclosed area with other people unless I'm masked up.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

Same here - but it did bother me that the smell of that cigarette smoke was so strong [nt], posted on September 10, 2021 at 12:07:09
Chris from Lafayette
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Only thing worse than indecision, posted on September 10, 2021 at 12:12:18
jedrider
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is running with a bad idea.

Democrats: Indecision

Republicans: Run with bad IdeaS (plural).

 

Tobacco is an aromatic., posted on September 10, 2021 at 12:14:34
ghost of olddude55
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My old truck, I could still smell cigarettes in it ten years after I bought it.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

Really, it's irrelevant., posted on September 10, 2021 at 12:17:58
ghost of olddude55
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A certain segment of the US population will always refuse to do as they're told, especially if it's for their own good. Political parties and politicians have no control those folks. They'll rationalize their bad decisions with obviously idiotic conspiracy theories. My brother-in-law is a prime example.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

RE: OK - yes I wear a mask when I'm out in public. . . , posted on September 10, 2021 at 13:12:23
Batman
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Smoke particles range from 0.1 to 1.0 micron, most commonly 0.2 and 0.25 micron.

Don't forget N-95 means it filters 0nly 95% of particles. Five percent may be enough to smell.

Smoke may be able to get through an N95 mask for several reasons.
1. Mask is old, they are designed for single use
2. Mask not fitted properly. In health care, before can use N95 the fit must be confirmed. Interestingly we use saccharine vapor. If one can smell sweet,the mask doesn't fit.
2a. Beard; masks don't seal properly over a beard.

Here's a little table of comparative sizes.







 

A slight edit, posted on September 10, 2021 at 14:01:37
Batman
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I forgot to mention that not all of cigarette smoke is particulate. Some of it is aeromatic compounds such as carbon monoxide, hydrogen cyanide, benzene, formaldehyde, nicotine, phenol, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) and tobacco-specific nitrosamines (TSNAs).


 

RE: OK - yes I wear a mask when I'm out in public. . . , posted on September 10, 2021 at 14:03:44
G Squared
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Test particles for filter efficiency test:

NaCl aerosol - 75 +/- 20 nm. Standard deviation not exceeding 1.86.

I have seen data showing exhaled cigarette smoke to have significantly small particles.
Gsquared

 

Don't forget N-95 means it filters 0nly 95% of particles., posted on September 10, 2021 at 14:15:08
emailtim
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".. Don't forget N-95 means it filters 0nly 95% of particles. ..."

Your post is conveniently incomplete.

"N95" is a government efficiency rating that means the mask blocks about 95 percent of particles that are 0.3 microns in size or larger.

From you own graph, 0.3 microns and greater is larger than then entire virus category.

Think screen door in a submarine to keep the water out. Sooner or later you will grasp the concept of viral sizes.

Unfortunately, I still have to repeat this. Viruses are smaller than bacteria. Some bacteria fall into the N95 filtration range, viruses do not.

MAYBE YOU NEED TO LOOK AT YOUR OWN PICTURES ???

 

Yes, another reminder could be warranted..., posted on September 10, 2021 at 14:41:30
Steve O
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...As evidenced by this recent post. And this one too! And yet another one. Apparently the result of a failing memory and/or inability to comprehend virus transmission mode.

 

Rather than explain it to you myself, posted on September 10, 2021 at 14:43:08
Batman
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I'll let OSHA's FAQ do it for you.

an N95 respirator is effective in protecting workers from the virus that causes COVID-19. "N95" refers to a class of respirator filter that removes at least 95% of very small (0.3 micron) particles from the air. Some people have mistakenly claimed that since the virus that causes COVID-19 is approximately 0.1 microns in size, wearing an N95 respirator will not protect against such a small virus. That mistaken claim appears to result from a misunderstanding of how respirators work.

When an infected person expels the virus into the air by activities like talking, coughing, or sneezing, the airborne particles are composed of more than just the virus. The virus is part of larger particles that are made up of water and other materials such as mucus. These larger particles are easily trapped and filtered out by N95 respirators because they are too big to pass through the filter. This is called mechanical filtration. But mechanical filtration is just one of the ways that respirator filters keep particles from passing through the filter. An electrostatic charge also attracts particles to fibers in the filter, where the particles become stuck. In addition, the smallest particles constantly move around (called "Brownian motion"), and are very likely to hit a filter fiber and stick to it.

The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) tests respirators using particles that simulate a 0.3 micron diameter because this size particle is most likely to pass through the filter. If worn correctly, the N95 respirator will filter out at least 95% of particles this size. An N95 respirator is more effective at filtering particles that are smaller or larger than 0.3 microns in size.

The N95 respirator filter, as is true for other NIOSH-approved respirators, is very effective at protecting people from the virus causing COVID-19. However, it is important for employers and workers to remember that the respirator only provides the expected protection when used correctly. Respirators, when required, must be used as part of a comprehensive, written respiratory protection program that meets the requirements of 29 CFR 1910.134 including requirements for medical evaluations, training, and fit testing. The Emergency Temporary Standard (ETS) for Healthcare also includes requirements for respiratory protection and a Mini Respiratory Protection Program. The Mini Respiratory Protection Program applies to specific circumstances specified under the ETS, generally when workers are not exposed to suspected or


 

I think that would explain it - thanks! [nt], posted on September 10, 2021 at 16:05:25
Chris from Lafayette
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Thanks, G Squared! - and everyone else who responded! [nt], posted on September 10, 2021 at 16:10:12
Chris from Lafayette
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"especially if it's for their own good", posted on September 10, 2021 at 16:18:29
Chris from Lafayette
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Not only for their own good, but for the good of everyone with whom they come into contact. That's where the selfishness and narcissism of this whole pattern of behavior reveal themselves - it's as if these people can't see past their own noses when in comes to social ethics. Narrow self interest - that's the only valid objective as far as they're concerned.

 

Do these look like N95 masks to you ???, posted on September 10, 2021 at 16:30:17
emailtim
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These are the types of powered positive-pressure "RESPIRATORS" being used in our hospitals, not paper/fiber/cloth masks. They are also using full body suits.

Notice any differences ??? Maybe they know something you don't (like the graph you posted) ???



 

RE: Rather than explain it to you myself, posted on September 10, 2021 at 17:46:26
RGA
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I think there are too many big words there for some of the Trump people on this board - they need to one syllable Trump version (who by the way got the vaccine). So you'd think his mindless followers would get vaccinated but they're afraid of needles - to be fair a good 30% of the population are afraid to get a needle (Trypanophobia). So perhaps many of them suffering from this phobia need to latch onto the conspiracy nonsense because they're terrified of needles.

As for the masks - well as you point out the virus largely travels on water molecules.

If you wear a mask and someone sneezes into your face there is a chance that some of their sneezes will get to your mouth and nose and will pass into your system - although it will still block out most of their slime. If both of you are wearing the mask - very VERY little will get into your system and probably none.

There are tons of videos that show all of this in real-time if one cares enough to look around.

It also explains why here in Hong Kong - there are 2 new cases only (imported ones at that) in a population of 7.5 million people. In fact, we are right next to mainland China where it all began and we have had a total of 212 people die from this virus since February 2020. 100% of the population here wore masks. Inside outside at the beach at the gym. As a result, there was no lockdown here - for periods restaurants went to take out only but my friends and I have enjoyed several buffets over the summer.

And only 53% of the population has had both vaccines. And the reason that number is so low is people here wear masks and the death rate is so low that the motivation has not been there to get the vaccine.

Asia though has always been more of a mask-wearing culture. When someone has a cold here - they are polite people who care about other people (unlike a certain segment of Americans (ahem R)). They wear a mask to no spread their germs to other people because it's a very densely packed city and people are bumping into others on the trains everyone touching the handles and escalator hand rails. So they don't want to spread their germs to others (and that was before Covid-19!

I usually get a cold at the same time every year and not so with wearing these masks - hell when Covid-19 is over I would be fine to keep wearing them.

The whole issue is idiotic - the masks are CHEAP. There is zero negative impact - they block out colds and flu and some other particulates on top that are harmful.

Whenever these kinds of things come up just look at the risk-reward proposition.

You make a 4 square. Wearing a mask costs you pennies. So the risk is that you spend pennies a day on a mask and it turns out the mask is ineffective - so like a lottery ticket you spent the money and didn't win - it was a waste of time. So the only risk you are taking is cost.

OTOH if you are wrong and the masks work even if only 20% not 95% then you are paying pennies to get some lowering of risk of dying.

So let's say you pay pennies for a mask and you wear the mask and you die - well you're dead you won't miss the pennies anymore or any of your bank account because you're dead. The Reward is that the pennies might save your life.

I mean it's just basic common sense.

This high school teacher nailed it on Climate Change - and that is a far bigger expense - but make the same analysis for masks.

 

RE: Rather than explain it to you myself, posted on September 10, 2021 at 19:02:33
Wojciech
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Hong Kong had rather unpleasant memories of Sars outbreak so they implemented all the precaution policies early on , testing, border controls school closures, and quarantines at the times when Fauci and Surgeon General were saying:
"....And stay safe by washing your hands, by covering your cough, by staying home if you're sick. Masks do not work for the general public and preventing them from getting coronavirus,"
And Biden decried Trumps travel restrictions as "hysterical xenophobia"
Weren't you on that board too at that time Richard? I know you were because
you were thundering here all the time about those Trump idiots.
And they later changed their stance because the "science advanced" .Ha Ha , science advanced! Corona viruses are studied for decades and Fauci was funding Wuhan Gain of function research on those viruses. They know everything about the way it spreads for several years now.
AS for the folks who care about fellow citizens, nobody except East and West coast is earning a living wage in US. Forget the unity!

 

okay, I'm sick of this idiocy now, posted on September 10, 2021 at 19:21:56
elblanco
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they wear much more robust equipment because they are immersed in Covid during entire shift. the concentration in the air and TIME SPENT IN THIS ENVIRONMENT is what necessitates this equipment.

why is the concentration (ppm) higher? because EVERYONE HAS FUCKING COVID IN THE HOSPITAL?

why you ask? because they won't get vaccinated or wear masks.

there is a "time spent over target" factor that cannot be ignored.

N95 is perfect for shopping and normal everyday activities where contact is brief concentration low.

lets bake this potatoe and put it to bed

yes, potato intentionally mispelled.

 

Take it easy , posted on September 10, 2021 at 19:55:55
Wojciech
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Most folks wear the same mask for a week and they often put it backwards on some days. They keep it low at times and pick their noses and touch their faces all over before putting it back when required. Then, there are masses who wear cute cotton masks with bumper sticker wisdom on them. Wait isn't Fauci wearing one too ? I think he is. What is the OSHA certification on those? How many microns ??

 

RE: Rather than explain it to you myself, posted on September 10, 2021 at 20:00:06
RGA
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Trump's own stupid words: Look at the date in the top right corner.

Don't be an idiot.

 

RE: Take it easy , posted on September 10, 2021 at 20:08:37
elblanco
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who cares?

he's not around anyone who's unvaccinated, or sick. vaccinated people can transmit , but not nearly as much. plus he's in rooms that are huge.

why do think almost no transmission occurs at grocery stores. because of the huge volume of air. and nobody is crammed together.

there is no reason for eferyone to not have N95 mask.

notice hospital workers have full face covering.

why? because high concentration for long periods will eventually enter through eyeballs.

its all degrees...-.wear an N95.

if someone you know gets covid. put them in room with powerful exhaust fan pinched in window. cover any HVAC RETURNS completely. leave supply alone. more air goes out than in. nobody in house will get sick. have done this more than 20x.

 

Fauci suggested wearing 2 or 3 masks simultaneously., posted on September 10, 2021 at 20:23:29
emailtim
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If N95's are so great, why wear 3 ???

Simple, because they are not effective as plainly stated on the packaging.

I see many people wearing MESH masks so they can breath. The mesh is big enough for small bugs to get through.

All show, no go unless you are wearing a properly sealed qualified respirator.

 

RE: Take it easy , posted on September 10, 2021 at 20:58:15
Wojciech
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I live among unvaccinated people. None of them got sick. None in their families got sick and I live basically in the ghetto. All I hear are stories. Stories from a friend and a psychiatrist who has to assist people dying in ICU unit. Stories of friends of a friends who died or struggled. I think most of people are in this situation and that's why there are so many who find it hard to relate and make sense of this whole mess. When you read the media it's an apocalypse. A total disaster and a mayhem. Even here
the mood is wear the mask or die. It's simply not true. People can be easily convinced if they believe the intentions are sincere. Unfortunately the politics forbid it. It would be easy if Biden would say, sorry folks I was wrong about it and that scoundrel and mostly wrong orange clown was actually right about that one thing. And the opposite side would have the guts to say well, our bad. We underestimated the threat and we fucked up and the current administration is actually doing something good so please follow the protocol. Wouldn't that be nice ? All the best

 

RE: Don't forget N-95 means it filters 0nly 95% of particles., posted on September 10, 2021 at 21:40:33
LtMandella
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WRONG AGAIN.

THE VIRUS ARE TRANSMITTED IN GLOBS OF SPIT AND MUCOUS EXPELLED BY HUMANS WHEN BREATHING, SNEEZING, TALKING. Those globs are way big enough to be trapped by any reasonably effective mask.

The transmission is not of virii that are free floating individual organisms.

So far you are batting 100% nonsense. Amazing...


. I judge any sound system by how tiring it is to listen to.
Linkwitz

 

RE: Take it easy , posted on September 10, 2021 at 21:56:35
rivervalley817
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'we fucked up'

we?

in earlier posts you've said you were a Polish National not an 'American' citizen

with regrets about being 'here'

which is ridiculous because you're nowhere at all





 

RE: Rather than explain it to you myself, posted on September 10, 2021 at 22:04:29
Wojciech
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I cant watch Trump for more than 10 sec. All I credit him for is that he knew the US is tanking and something has to be done.
At that time there were no vaccines, no hospital beds and no masks so what he supposed to say to his fellow Americans convinced they are a pinnacle of the world? And sorry, 280 millions of insubordinate rednecks is not a 7 million of Asians used to deal with outbreaks of viruses.

 

RE: Don't forget N-95 means it filters 0nly 95% of particles., posted on September 10, 2021 at 22:07:50
rivervalley817
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he's been told this multiple times with citations

he's even been provided videos of mask testing

over & over by numerous AA contributors that pull their pants up right

but he keeps posting the same things

who does that?

shame on you for feeding the troll Loo

 

RE: Rather than explain it to you myself, posted on September 10, 2021 at 22:11:24
rivervalley817
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'so what he supposed to say'

'he' supposed to use correct grammatical syntax to be a good red troll

I see you now, dig it?

 

RE: Rather than explain it to you myself, posted on September 11, 2021 at 04:40:11
RGA
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Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
Well, what he should have been saying is the virus is real and not a democratic hoax. What should have been saying is this virus (whether it was released by a mishap at the Wuhan plant, whether it was on purpose or whether it was from a Bat) - it is a serious problem because unlike the flu which has a vaccine this virus does not.

And with the normal flu, we take the vaccine because it lowers our chance of dying from it and it lessens the severity of the flu should you get it. Covid-19 is considerably more deadly - and we have no vaccine.

We also do not have enough masks in the United States at the current time. So we need to keep the current stockpile of masks that we do have for front line workers (Doctors and Nurses).

You know - deal with the American public honestly - what a concept.

Until we can procure the masks needed for a mass rollout to the US population we ask all of you to limit your exposure to other people and stay as far away from others as you can. Effective immediately, all schools nationwide are hereby closed as are all sporting events and all movie theatres and restaurants and bars for the next 30 days.

If Trump said that his redneck followers would have believed him 110%. Because he died hundreds of thousands of people needlessly died - and that is largely on him.

If Fauci had said the exact same thing (both of them in lockstep) then the liberal left would have also believed it. With Trump lying to the public over 5000 times in office) it would have required a real scientist - one who worked in both administrations especially under Obama for lefties to be on board.

But no - both downplayed it. Fauci and other scientists downplayed it to make sure first responders had masks and to try to stop a panic but panic ensued anyway and all the masks and toilet paper left the shelves faster than Afghani soldiers left their posts.

And before you say that is just Trump bashing - remember he has a track record of only caring about himself and his profits. Remember when he banned Muslims - he only banned Muslim countries that do not have a Trump hotel - ie all the Muslims from all Trump hotel countries were never banned including Saudi Arabia who was responsible for 9/11 (I know it's hard for Trump supporters to get this but the man never banned Muslims from Saudi F-ing Arabia!) Not one Trump lover has been able to come back to me on it - not the dozens of times I mentioned it here on Facebook or by media. Ban those evil Muslims from coming to the US of A but bah not the ones who were responsible for 9/11 - oh because they give money to Trump. That doesn't bother a single Trump person on this board - not one! How?

Or when Trump says companies should not do business in China and they should hire Americans on American soil (America first) yet he had his clothing company (and his daughter's clothing company) making clothes in China before, during, and after his presidency - it is the hypocrisy above all else that is why I loathe him and the dimwits who give him a pass on EVERY horrible thing the guy has done. I call out democrat presidents and I have called out people I voted for in Canada when they do some assanine BS.

Biden was nowhere near my first choice of Democrats to run and neither was HRC. But the dumbass US system gives you basically two choices and the DNC fixes it to get their corporate-owned puppet firmly in place.

So then it comes down to things that are about personal freedom - the Democrats are for it and the Republicans are absolutely not. To me domestic policy trumps foreign policy. I am Pro-Choice and freedom over your own body and if you want 2 wives why the F do I care?

Personal freedom to me trumps all so long as everyone is the age of consent and you are not hurting anyone then you should be FREE to control your own body. Same for smoking a plant that grows naturally on the planet earth - the God believers should hold the belief that God made Marijuana - he bloody well put the plant on earth for the joy of his children (us humans) to enjoy. Smoke up and relax.

Thus, in the US - when it comes to more personal freedom there is only ONE party and that is the democratic party. America is designed to be a secular country without the idiocy of the church ruling it. Democrats are the ONNL party that believes the country should be run without a fascistic religious doctrine to rule over the nation - again history shows that when religion is in charge of anything disaster and body counts increase.

Perhaps because one of my degrees had a heavy focus on Nazi Germany - when I listen to Trump alarm bells were going off - and perhaps because as you say you can't watch Trump for more than 10 sec you did not get enough time being able to draw the clear an obvious parallels and because his supporters tend to mostly come from the uneducated segment of society (Trump did say he loved the uneducated after all) none of them would know any history either. Most of the side with the confederate army and are pro slavery. So I mean - when you are on the side of the racists and the morons in a society you really should take a step back and say - gee I am in agreement with a bunch of inbred hapless morons so perhaps I should make a T-Chart as to where I have gone wrong here.

Spend 6 minutes and watch this fellow - he is a police officer trainer and war vet and yes a southern liberal - and he was asked to do a show about Trump's accomplishments

 

We provide technical support to CDC/NIOSH/NPPTL., posted on September 11, 2021 at 06:07:31
G Squared
Audiophile

Posts: 6650
Location: Washington, DC Metro Area
Joined: November 16, 2004
This lab conducts the N95 and other respiratory PPE performance tests and certifies compliance of production to support workplace respiratory safety. Lots of interesting work even before COVID. Firefighters self contained breathing units and positive pressure units for high risk operations with chemicals and biologics are really interesting technologies and some of the testing is intense.

They do not test or certify face barriers (the masks we wear to the grocery store). The standard for face barriers requires performance testing at an accredited lab and based on that and a reasonable quality management system the manufacturer declares conformity of their products.
Gsquared

 

RE: Straight from the manufacturer in plain English, posted on September 11, 2021 at 06:28:58
BillH
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Posts: 2582
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Contributor
  Since:
January 31, 2000
That is just legal boilerplate meant to head off lawsuits from nut jobs.
I'll take the N-95, thank you, and well as all the vaccine I can get.

 

Exactly what was Trump right about and Biden wrong?, posted on September 11, 2021 at 10:47:55
Rick W
Bored Member

Posts: 14481
Location: NJ
Joined: October 3, 2001
Contributor
  Since:
March 22, 2002
Can't imagine what the hell you think is going on w/covid. You think the deaths are fake stats, the countless docs telling us the hospitals in a number of states are overwhelmed, the people who don't have covid and can't get treated/operations due to so many covid patients are all full of shit? Do you seriously believe nobody in your neighborhood got covid, nobody died? You think docs/hospitals/media are all lying when they say that around 95% of the current hospitalizations and deaths are people who are not vaccinated?

I personally knew several people who died from covid and ditto for my SO. None were very old, none were obese, one had diabetes.

BTW - where is the ghetto you live in?

 

Too true. The father of one of my coworkers..., posted on September 11, 2021 at 11:37:20
MWE
Audiophile

Posts: 1292
Location: Hillsborough, NC
Joined: June 8, 2000
caught the disease and died of severe lung damage earlier this year, the day before he was supposed to be discharged from the hospital after an orthopedic procedure. Yeah, I don't think she made that up, either. Thank you for calling out the bizarre rationalizations made by certain people on this subject.


Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon

 

For their own good..., posted on September 11, 2021 at 11:43:24
musetap
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  Since:
January 28, 2004
Anyone else find these, well, fat* people getting VERY upset about wearing masks or
the possible health dangers of getting vaccinated when their VERY apparent obesity
would seem to negate their being much concerned about their health?

Mind you, I am overweight and aware of it but not making some argument against
something that makes so much sense as getting a vaccine against a virus that would
gladly fuck with my overly plump body given the chance.

So much freedom of expression by so many of us Americans that can't seem to see
the hypocrisy at the root of their comforts and discomforts.

*said it, meant it.

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure




 

hat some of their sneezes will get to your mouth and nose and will pass into your system, posted on September 11, 2021 at 11:50:59
LtMandella
Audiophile

Posts: 1769
Location: CA
Joined: May 27, 2019
right, and this brings into focus the issue of "viral load".

It turns out that whether you get infected, and how severe the infection is, has a lot to do with how many virii you are actually hit with in a short period of time.

In infection disease parlance, this is termed "viral load".

Your immunie system is reasonably competent. Only when it is _overwhelmed_ by an infectious agent do you get syptoms.

So by blocking most of the viral load of an exposure event, the immune system has a much better chance of fighting off an infection, or at least signficantly reducing or completely preventing sysmptoms, severity, and duration.

I had a good friend who was one of the top infectious disease MDs in CA. (passed away a few years ago from ovarian cancer).


. I judge any sound system by how tiring it is to listen to.
Linkwitz

 

Now there's an ironic statement, given that..., posted on September 11, 2021 at 12:01:50
MWE
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Posts: 1292
Location: Hillsborough, NC
Joined: June 8, 2000
he has profoundly contributed (and is contributing) to said ongoing "tanking".


Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon

 

I wish their was a mask that prevented the spread of misinformation. (nt, posted on September 11, 2021 at 15:10:50
peppy m.
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Posts: 317
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.

 

RE: Exactly what was Trump right about and Biden wrong?, posted on September 11, 2021 at 22:33:37
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 13582
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001

The Trumpers on this board wonder why we dislike the man - nope - they just can't figure it out. Being a basic human being puzzles the supposed Christians on this forum. The mind boggles.

 

Perhaps, posted on September 12, 2021 at 05:49:34
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 13582
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001

like Trump himself - they need pictures.



 

More of your deliberate bullshit. Fauci wasn't talking about wearing 2 n95's., posted on September 12, 2021 at 07:58:52
Rick W
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Posts: 14481
Location: NJ
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Contributor
  Since:
March 22, 2002
I think you know damn well he was referring to cloth/surgical masks. Nobody but a few other wingnuts falls for your bs.

 

Hey! At least he didn't spend 9/11 playing golf..., posted on September 12, 2021 at 08:57:47
musetap
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But it wouldn't surprise me if he snuck in a few holes.

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure




 

Probably because he's no longer on the taxpayers' dime. Nt, posted on September 13, 2021 at 00:31:00
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 13582
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
My.

 

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