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While the Fed fiddles

174.194.133.135
Posted on July 17, 2021 at 06:26:58
tweaker456
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Posts: 7740
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Dollar's Purchasing Power Drops to Lowest Ever. Inflation Heats Up, as Fed Wants, After Simultaneous Supply & Demand Shocks | Wolf Street

Huge rise in housing , rent and food and stock prices. Interest rates at all time low. Perfect storm for retirees who don't own a home.




So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

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Bubble Boy Powell speaks today, posted on July 28, 2021 at 07:19:38
Jay Buridan
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Posts: 10282
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
 And if he does anything about inflation, I'll eat my hat.
My Audio Asylum hat.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

RE: While the Fed fiddles , posted on July 20, 2021 at 18:25:42
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 How is home ownership going to help?
CA has prop 13, so I'm protected against wacky increases in assessed valuation FOR NOW. A move is afoot to delete Prop 13 which will effectively put me in line for food stamps and public transportation......Because by THAT point, any savings will have been inflated and taxed to death.
Too much is never enough

 

Bubble Boy Powell is pro-inflation, posted on July 17, 2021 at 16:09:37
Jay Buridan
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Posts: 10282
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
 Even the Wall Street Journal agrees in the observation.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

Transitory. I predict a stretch of Deflation. , posted on July 17, 2021 at 16:50:37
jdaniel@jps.net
 Even the "other" party has let the sound bite go. : )

 

That's Bubble Boy's story and he's sticking to it :(, posted on July 19, 2021 at 18:55:25
Jay Buridan
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Posts: 10282
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
 Today Biden said likewise. Whistling past the graveyard IMHO.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

RE: That's Bubble Boy's story and he's sticking to it :(, posted on July 19, 2021 at 19:12:26
rivervalley817
 agreed. there's red flags everywhere and not just for the US economy




 

RE: That's Bubble Boy's story and he's sticking to it :(, posted on July 19, 2021 at 19:39:41
tweaker456
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Posts: 7740
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 +1 and now it looks like the delta variant has the markets spooked a bit.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

Spooked yesterday but up today, posted on July 20, 2021 at 12:59:00
Jay Buridan
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Posts: 10282
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
 Worldwide, down yesterday but up today.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

Three anti-vaxxers did an about face in the last 24 hours and told their viewers , posted on July 20, 2021 at 13:22:28
jdaniel@jps.net
 to go ahead and get vaccinated.

I wonder why?

 

That's what I love about cancel culture :), posted on July 20, 2021 at 13:42:17
Jay Buridan
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Posts: 10282
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 It's nothing but the Dismal Science as it applies to celebrities and public figures.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

Looks like Daddy told the three that ratings over death is all fun and games until the Stock Market speaks. nt, posted on July 20, 2021 at 19:02:17
jdaniel@jps.net
 .

 

RE: Transitory. I predict a stretch of Deflation. , posted on July 17, 2021 at 17:25:58
tweaker456
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Posts: 7740
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 I was predicting deflation also when covid hit. Wrong again. Prices skyrocketing with millions more out of work. Whod a thunk. We are in new uncharted territory, IMO. Huge numbers of humans, world wide housing shortage, global warming, incredible concentration of wealth near zero interest rates and a stock market at or near an all time high PE ratio...




So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Transitory. I predict a stretch of Deflation. , posted on July 20, 2021 at 18:33:29
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 You left out ONE additional 'pressure'.

Population of the planet is at an All-time high which even COVID couldn't put a dent in........

As more people chase fewer resources, I think the classical result is inflation....

Here in SoCal? Super Unleaded gas is bumping the 5$ per gallon level. And with the emphasis on

Electric and Plug-in Hybrids automobiles? Blackouts will become more frequent. We've already

had a few problems this summer....

I can hardly wait for my Annual SS 'adjustment' to result in another loss of purchasing power.
Too much is never enough

 

SSA goes belly-up in 2065, posted on July 17, 2021 at 17:58:42
Jay Buridan
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Posts: 10282
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
 IMHO, society won't last that long.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

RE: SSA goes belly-up in 2065, posted on July 17, 2021 at 18:12:36
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7740
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Agreed, unless a higher power steps in.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

Why so blue?, posted on July 20, 2021 at 13:13:19
Jay Buridan
Audiophile

Posts: 10282
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004



.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

RE: Why so blue?, posted on July 20, 2021 at 23:59:45
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 LOTS of ways to 'go' with a blue ball........
Many of which would get me evicted from this forum......
Too much is never enough

 

"unless a higher power steps in" - you mean the aliens? [nt], posted on July 18, 2021 at 01:38:09
Chris from Lafayette
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Contributor
  Since: February 6, 2012

 

What human artifacts would aliens take home with them?, posted on July 20, 2021 at 13:10:08
Jay Buridan
Audiophile

Posts: 10282
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
 If they visited earth after our species had extinguished itself? Once upon a time, the question might be found in a science fiction storybook or movie. But nowadays, it strikes me as an issue of current affairs.

The first artifacts that occur to me are Beethoven's string quartets.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

RE: What human artifacts? Easiest answer in the world., posted on July 20, 2021 at 13:12:19
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7740
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Grace Kelly | American actress and princess of Monaco | Britannica


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

Agreed. Female beauty is an artifact of human civilization, posted on July 20, 2021 at 13:46:36
Jay Buridan
Audiophile

Posts: 10282
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
 And it's good to be the king.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

RE: Agreed. Female beauty is an artifact of human civilization, posted on July 20, 2021 at 13:59:56
b.l.zeebub
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Posts: 9361
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 Prince would do although I think Prince Aly Khan had better of Prince Rainier. At least for the 4 years it lasted.

 

Agreed. And they both did better than Prince Philip, posted on July 20, 2021 at 18:41:11
Jay Buridan
Audiophile

Posts: 10282
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
 with Duchess Camilla.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

I hope they have fire extinguishers, posted on July 18, 2021 at 17:58:37
Jay Buridan
Audiophile

Posts: 10282
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
 And flotation devices.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

Don't count on it..., posted on July 19, 2021 at 08:32:28
Steve O
Audiophile

Posts: 12374
Location: SE MI
Joined: September 6, 2001
 ...fire in some locations and water in others is just part of the overall plan. Resistance is futile.

 

Hip-waders and rubber rain gear, posted on July 19, 2021 at 08:50:19
Jay Buridan
Audiophile

Posts: 10282
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004






The most practical person I know told me that climate change offered opportunities to sell rain-gear and fire-proof suits. He has a true stoic or "What, Me Worry?" outlook.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

Never mind... the inflation is just 1.5%, posted on July 17, 2021 at 06:31:13
Victor Khomenko
Manufacturer

Posts: 55319
Joined: April 5, 2000
 That's what last year COLA.

They are projecting high one this time, but I would have to see it.


 

RE: Never mind... the inflation is just 1.5%, posted on July 17, 2021 at 06:39:56
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7740
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Want to see it, just try to rent an apartment or buy tomatoes.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Never mind... the inflation is just 1.5%, posted on July 17, 2021 at 07:24:45
srdavis2000
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 Most retirees I know bought the house years ago and at this point only pay real estate taxes and insurance on housing so prices of tomatoes isn't a worry.

 

Many retirees are shafted by escalating local taxes., posted on July 17, 2021 at 07:41:40
Victor Khomenko
Manufacturer

Posts: 55319
Joined: April 5, 2000
 Plus the energy costs, maintenance, repairs, etc, etc, etc.

A paid off mortgage is not a key to financial security.


 

And those same retirees are saved by Medicare from catastrophes. They also,, posted on July 17, 2021 at 08:41:47
tinear
Audiophile

Posts: 65782
Location: Kansas City, KS
Joined: April 9, 2006
 most of them, are living off their Social Security benefits. If their property taxes are going up, it's dumb to worry about: it means their properties are ACCRUING. They can always sell at a greater profit than otherwise and relocate a bit further out.

Taxes are what we pay mainly for education and police protection (non-federal).

It is good to know what life was like in those olden day "free" frontier towns, my friend. Murder rates in those macho, all-male societies have been estimated at 7% of a town's population. Things stabilized when the citizens got together and pooled resources to hire police. Yes, those were a form of taxation.

 

RE: Many retirees are shafted by escalating local taxes., posted on July 17, 2021 at 08:41:18
srdavis2000
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  Since: December 16, 2004
 No but being mortgage free helps. There is a book, How to live well with no job and nearly no money. The main component to the formula was no rent.

My comments were directed to someone who is retired so can live wherever he chooses yet lives where he can barely afford the rent and complains about the price of tomatoes.

 

Local taxes is just another mortgage, posted on July 17, 2021 at 09:41:46
Victor Khomenko
Manufacturer

Posts: 55319
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 In some states people pay $15K a year for a modest home - and that is more, than 50% of a maximum SS benefit.

That is about as much as we paid for our mortgage.


 

RE: Local taxes is just another mortgage, posted on July 17, 2021 at 09:53:39
srdavis2000
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  Since: December 16, 2004
 I understand that. Some people live in the wrong place/state. If the job doesn't pay commensurate for the location, you have the wrong job or live in the wrong place. People aren't forced to live or work where they do.

 

In theory ya can always move. , posted on July 17, 2021 at 12:03:31
Rick W
 As somebody who has spent his entire adult life renting apartments/condos I'd hoped to buy a small house to live in for the rest of my now geezoidal life. That's now impossible for us anywhere near NYC even though we now have a fair amount of money (money/investments, no pension worth mentioning and minimum SS). Yes, we could move to another more affordable state, but some people - including us - consider the political/social situations in MANY states to be a prohibitive factor.

I'd no sooner move to a state like Texas or Wisconsin (just as examples) than gouge my eyes out. I'm sure some "conservative" inmates would not wanna live in liberal states like NJ/NY/CA. Being an inter-racial couple factors into it for us also. We're not sure where the hell we'll end up but staying in the NYC metro area for the rest of our lives is not feasible.

We'll eventually find a place/state/area that's a decent fit for us - Europe is a possibility for us too - but I don't view moving to be as easy/simple as some people seem to think it is.

 

Moving to a different state, posted on July 18, 2021 at 05:44:24
E-Stat
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  Since: April 5, 2002
 is a pain, but *politics* was never a factor for us. It was driven by a career move for my wife that also worked for me.

I just have no desire to live in an urban setting, one with extremely high taxes or one where I cannot target shoot because the place is afraid of law abiding citizens.

I'm visiting Chicago this weekend to help a nephew move in who's going to a downtown college. Nice place to visit with lots to do, but...-

Bi-racial couples are readily found in the South, too. I can think of three of wifey's pharmacist friends who are different Asian-Black-White combinations.

 

Never heard of a place that's afraid of law abiding citizens., posted on July 18, 2021 at 09:45:09
Rick W
 Target shooting? Where may I ask would you be unable to find places to do that? You'd have no problem finding ranges in a liberal bastion like the NYC area.

 

You mean *eerveel* .223 caliber, posted on July 18, 2021 at 10:46:56
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37643
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 semi-auto rifles and pistols with high capacity magazines you don't constantly have to refill are OK?

Then why all the hand wringing about the need to ban such?

A practical consideration to all military related ammo - even if introduced a hundred years ago- is they are inexpensive to relaid.

 

Have no idea why you typed that reply to me., posted on July 18, 2021 at 11:10:54
Rick W
 Don't believe I've ever posted about banning those weapons, though it does seem ridiculous to me that anybody'd want them. I would welcome such a ban but to me the main issue is keeping weapons outta the hands of the mentally ill and people who post their violent intentions on social media.

 

Both are already "outlawed", posted on July 18, 2021 at 11:56:47
E-Stat
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 In some states. I have zero tolerance for irrational feel good-do nothing measures to appeal the uninformed.

The misnamed Cliton Ban from 1994 (based entirely upon cosmetic features) has proven to be useless.

 

RE: Both are already "outlawed", posted on July 18, 2021 at 12:29:15
rivervalley817
 'misnamed Cliton Ban from 1994'

yes, you did

; )

 

The misnamed part of that legislation, posted on July 18, 2021 at 13:47:24
E-Stat
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  Since: April 5, 2002
 has to do with inaccurate terms.

 

How about Austin?, posted on July 17, 2021 at 18:38:33
Rod M
Web Geek

Posts: 16244
Location: So. California
Joined: March 1, 1999
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 1999
 Great music scene, liberal, college town. Even real estate in Texas is getting expensive. With cash and investments, wait until that market crashes, it could take a few more years. Take the time to explore options.

My in-laws are in N. Carolina and it's so full of Yankees that I hardly hear a southern accent there anymore.

-Rod

 

Aside from being in Texas prices in Austin have gone way up., posted on July 17, 2021 at 21:03:06
Rick W
 I did briefly ponder Austin. I know there are some liberal enclaves in a number of red states, but its the state guvs that make it pretty close to outta the question for me.

 

RE: In theory ya can always move. , posted on July 17, 2021 at 18:14:54
RGA
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Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001

It is easy to travel when you are single and have a job that is transferable.

It was easy for me to move from Canada to Hong Kong as I had no wife or kids and moving from a town of like 4,000 people to a metropolis of 7.5 million and for far greater pay for the same job - it was practically a no brainer. It also helped that as a kid we moved around a lot having spent each grade in a new school.

But if I had a wife and kid(s) then I would not choose to live here in HK.

One thing to note though - all the major cities vote liberal. People who live in cities tend to be more educated and more worldly and ultimately less fearful and fear leads to racism. In cities, people work with brown people, get to know them, and are then less fearful and see through the news making them out to be the bogeyman. The fear networks are powerful but the majority of city-dwellers have more exposure to different kinds of people.

Of course, at a state level, you are still under the control of crazy racists like Abbot and Cruz who represent the overall majority of "people" who live there.

Moving abroad isn't so easy - Many countries require a certain amount of money in your savings account or a degree in a field that country requires. The advice I give to my students here is that Hong Kong can not stand up to China - they have the tanks. You can't free Hong Kong. It was never free even under the British. So you have to free yourselves. And that is through wealth and/or education. If you are rich you can move anywhere in the world - countries like taking in people with money. If you have money your passport is gold. Otherwise, you need a degree in a field that other countries need such as engineering, IT, medicine, science. The softer fields like home care. Filipinas will get work in Canada with a certificate in home-care because most people don't want a job cleaning up after the elderly or the sick.

As an American - I think Canada is your best bet because it's not that far away - you can always drive over the border and visit your family so in terms of proximity you are nearby. Furthermore, culturally it is similar. Similar music and movies and TV etc. Same sports are popular. Other than free healthcare and the metric system (and Canadians know both) you really don't have much of a stretch. Some provinces see a large amount of Americans applying for work.

This is a helpful video

 

RE: In theory ya can always move. , posted on July 17, 2021 at 13:05:51
srdavis2000
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Posts: 10707
Location: Deep South
Joined: January 11, 2003
Contributor
  Since: December 16, 2004
 I agree, moving isn't simple at all. People probably end up where they are because that's where their parents brought them or due to work. People have family or kids and it all gets complicated. Somewhere in this thread, my point was that if the job you end up with doesn't pay well enough to live where that job is, maybe it isn't a good fit.

When my wife and I were working, it made sense to live where we did. My wife's job required her to live within 20 minutes of the hospital where she worked. My job was also about 20 minutes away. After we retired, it no longer made sense to live in the city, so we moved to a much quieter area that we like. I was pleasantly surprised to find that our homeowners insurance was reduced by around half and that our car insurance dropped by about a third. It would be a long commute from here, but we don't have to commute.

Even in retirement, we didn't want to move too far from our kids. That's a personal decision. Being able to work remotely is shaking up where some people choose to live lately.

 

A good website to help with the move..., posted on July 17, 2021 at 12:52:38
vacuous
Audiophile

Posts: 4486
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
Joined: August 25, 2000
Contributor
  Since: November 7, 2020
 The City-Data forums are an excellent resource for people searching for new residence. Organized first by state and then by major cities, people who actually live or have lived in those places will answer your questions, often with comprehensive detail. Archived posts are often the way to do your research (just like here at AA when researching audio gear). Link below.

 

Thanks, bookmarked it. nt, posted on July 17, 2021 at 13:29:23
Rick W
 nt

 

Some are forced, due to particular circumstances, posted on July 17, 2021 at 10:49:30
Victor Khomenko
Manufacturer

Posts: 55319
Joined: April 5, 2000
 Family, for instance. No one is arguing that moving is often the best option, just not always.


 

RE: Many retirees are shafted by escalating local taxes., posted on July 17, 2021 at 09:24:52
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7740
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 "The main component to the formula was no rent." I will either have to purchase the book that that genius penned or move in with you so I can live for free. Can I live upstairs 2000 so I don't have to hear foot steps? I would also like you not to listen to your stereo unless I'm not home. See ya soon.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

You can read the book free online. , posted on July 17, 2021 at 16:42:44
srdavis2000
Audiophile

Posts: 10707
Location: Deep South
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Contributor
  Since: December 16, 2004
 I found that out after I bought it. The author was self educated through 12th grade at her local library. She raised her own vegetables and rabbits for protein. She made a still to supply her alcoholic dad with booze. She later earned a PHD. What she says isn't a hypothesis. It's a true story. It mirrors some of my experience. You probably wouldn't like it.

 

RE: Never mind... the inflation is just 1.5%, posted on July 17, 2021 at 07:01:43
dark_dave56
Audiophile

Posts: 8394
Location: Ohio
Joined: August 29, 2019
 Inflation is not the issue. Choosing to live where you can't or can barely afford is. Tomatoes are in-season here--and dirt cheap for locally-grown.



"And today is for sale and it's all you can afford. Buy your own admission. The whole things got you bored. Well the Lord chooses the good ones, and the bad ones use the Lord"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP

 

RE: Never mind... the inflation is just 1.5%, posted on July 17, 2021 at 09:15:20
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7740
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 I must move to Ohio and freeze my ass off to get cheap tomatoes. Great. Do they have any taste? I, from this day on have officially given up on buying tomatoes. Tomato paste is full of lycopene and potassium. Tomatoes are designed not to break when they fall of of trucks. There's a whole book on the subject of how tomatoes have been ruined.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

Maybe you should..., posted on July 18, 2021 at 03:55:52
dark_dave56
Audiophile

Posts: 8394
Location: Ohio
Joined: August 29, 2019
 ...and you wouldn't really be freezing your ass off--it's only really cold a few months out of the year.

Have you ever just got up in the morning, grabbed a cup of coffee (from the kitchen, not the drive-thru) walked out onto the porch out back wearing nothing but boxers and took-in the view of the landscape?--walked out to the stables and let the critters out into the paddock?

You really don't HAVE to live in a shoe-box with annoying neighbors. You CHOOSE to. I've done the "urban living" thing when I lived in DC for a few years (and even then, I was smart enough to BUY a brownstone). It was a great experience, but expensive, and I'd have never wanted to start a family or raise my girls there.


"And today is for sale and it's all you can afford. Buy your own admission. The whole things got you bored. Well the Lord chooses the good ones, and the bad ones use the Lord"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP

 

RE: Maybe you should..., posted on July 19, 2021 at 08:42:49
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7740
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 I literally would not be caught dead in boxers! The devil wouldn't let me in wearing them.




So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Never mind... the inflation is just 1.5%, posted on July 17, 2021 at 08:20:36
Sondek
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Posts: 9626
Location: Fort Worth
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  Since: April 5, 2002
 My tomatoes were all done three weeks ago.

Not a very good crop this year. The weather in May f'd me up with tomatoes this year. Rained 19 days out that month, and cloudy for the rest of the month. Being perpetually wet for a month invited the blight. Ended up getting 72# this year. By comparison to last I took 107#. The two varieties I plant are very resistant to blight, but a solid month of wet and very little sunshine overwhelmed their resistance.

Onions and leeks, on the other hand, did very well. So a mixed bag for gardening this year.

 

RE: Never mind... the inflation is just 1.5%, posted on July 17, 2021 at 07:37:02
srdavis2000
Audiophile

Posts: 10707
Location: Deep South
Joined: January 11, 2003
Contributor
  Since: December 16, 2004
 Another issue with barely being able to pay rent or a house note is not being able to save or invest for retirement. Hoping SS will cover living expenses for 20 or so years of retirement is a disaster waiting to happen. I understand young people living check to check, but somewhere during a 30-40 year working life, you would think that they would wake up.

 

RE: Never mind... the inflation is just 1.5%, posted on July 17, 2021 at 09:16:45
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7740
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 People waking up. Nice concept 2000.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

When I was that age, I was flat on my ass broke., posted on July 17, 2021 at 07:50:22
ghost of olddude55
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Posts: 32569
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 "Waking up" was irrelevant. I had a mortgage, two kids, no steady work. I was economic cannon fodder in the first round of de-industrialization. Took it up the ass so that a lot of rich guys could get even richer. Bigger yacht, more exclusive golf club, that sort of thing.
I've been lectured again and again and again, if I had just taken $5,000 and invested in the NASDAQ in 1986, I'd be sitting pretty. But if I had $5 left when payday rolled around, that was a good two-weeks. And of course, not only would I have needed money I never had, I'd also have needed to be clairvoyant.
Today, on top of the mortgage--if they can even afford one--young people have student loan debt. They need four years of college just to make about what I earned in 1981 adjusted for inflation, natch. Both parents have to work, which means daycare, which costs nearly as much as another mortgage.
"Waking up" in this case means living with your parents until they die and (hopefully) inheriting the house, never get married, never have kids, never go on vacation. In another few years, you'll be able to add "never buy a car" to that list. Or maybe they should wake up and start voting their own pocketbooks instead of cultural bullshit that doesn't put food on the table.
You want average people to save for their own retirement, that's what it's going to take.
If you want to fix housing, it has to be done on the local level where zoning laws are written to keep housing at a premium.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

RE: When I was that age, I was flat on my ass broke., posted on July 17, 2021 at 09:02:07
srdavis2000
Audiophile

Posts: 10707
Location: Deep South
Joined: January 11, 2003
Contributor
  Since: December 16, 2004
 I was in the same place Ghost, mortgage, two kids, but when the real estate agent told my wife how much house we could afford, I had to disappoint her a little and said no we can't. We bought a house we could comfortably afford. We drove inexpensive vehicles. I've never had a Starbucks coffee that my co-workers came into work with daily. I saved a small amount from each check and invested it in relatively safe investments.

My advice would be to younger people to set themselves up for success and not depend on the government. Depending on the government will lead to disappointment.

You are where you are at this point. You don't need any advise from me.

 

RE: When I was that age, I was flat on my ass broke., posted on July 17, 2021 at 09:39:09
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7740
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 I'm with you on the coffee and inexpensive cars. I get a perfectly good cup of coffee at McDonald's for a buck. A block away in Safeway people are paying like $4.50 for a cup of coffee. People won't delay gratification and are not educated about what these unnecessary extravagances can and do add up to 30 years later. Driving a used Toyota instead of a BMW and getting a regular coffee instead of a latte is not great hardship IMO. I wonder how many people who called me cheap are old with no money right about now. Let's see. Say they saved $10 a week on coffee for 30 years. That's 5.20 x 30= 15,600. Put in every month is a stock ETF it it could be 75-120K. And that's just coffee...
So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: When I was that age, I was flat on my ass broke., posted on July 17, 2021 at 10:34:55
srdavis2000
Audiophile

Posts: 10707
Location: Deep South
Joined: January 11, 2003
Contributor
  Since: December 16, 2004
 In college I had a girlfriend with a wealthy uncle. He had worked his way up the ranks to a well paying job, but lived very modestly. I'll never forget a story he told me once. He said "when break time came, and everybody was buying Cokes and candy, I just got a drink of water and went on."

 

RE: When I was that age, I was flat on my ass broke., posted on July 17, 2021 at 10:40:03
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7740
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Then there's Steve Forbes who inherited as much as 440 million dollars and was shocked a while back that McDonald's had to pay a whole $8 an hour.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

When we bought our house, we COULD afford it., posted on July 17, 2021 at 09:31:50
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32569
Joined: July 14, 2017
 It wasn't until afterwards that a bunch of big shot executives pulled their strings, made themselves richer and left me high and dry. We went from fine, just fine, to not enough money to cover the bills in the space of six months.
After nearly 5 years of on and off part time work, I got what looked like a new career but lost that job because I didn't go to the right church.
And you think depending on the government will lead to disappointment?
While we're on the subject, don't think for one minute that people who invest their way to retirement aren't just as dependent on government as any SS recipient.




The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

RE: When we bought our house, we COULD afford it., posted on July 17, 2021 at 09:47:17
srdavis2000
Audiophile

Posts: 10707
Location: Deep South
Joined: January 11, 2003
Contributor
  Since: December 16, 2004
 I went through several job losses and screwings as well. I don't think we are unique. I was unemployed for around a year and a half. Our savings were being drained. I did shit work to reduce the bleeding. I eventually got another decent job. That fizzled. I got another job. I never considered that the government was going to save me.

 

Government is the only entity that can., posted on July 17, 2021 at 09:52:14
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32569
Joined: July 14, 2017
 The private sector sure as hell won't.
You were out of work for a year and a half? Collect unemployment? Where do you think that came from?
Government is saving you right now. It doesn't matter if it's a Social Security check or a tax deferred saving plan. Government makes it possible. No government, nobody except the wealthiest people will ever live to enjoy retirement.
If you had to rely on the tech sector or the energy sector or the pharmaceutical sector, you'd have been turned into Soylent Green long ago.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

RE: Government is the only entity that can., posted on July 17, 2021 at 10:10:22
srdavis2000
Audiophile

Posts: 10707
Location: Deep South
Joined: January 11, 2003
Contributor
  Since: December 16, 2004
 I never collected unemployment in my life. I found a crappy job to help me get to the next real job.

Tax deferred or after tax savings both work. So thank you government for letting me save some money and not taking it all. I paid into SS for 40 years. Some don't live to recover what they paid in and some live to receive more. It's kind of like a insurance. If the government hadn't taken SS taxes out of my pay, I would have had more to contribute to my 401K. Money in a retirement account doesn't get reduced or go away when you die.

What I'm selling that you aren't buying, is that it's much better to take care of yourself and not depend on some entity, program or whatever.

 

RE: Government is the only entity that can., posted on July 17, 2021 at 10:36:56
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7740
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
"What I'm selling that you aren't buying, is that it's much better to take care of yourself and not depend on some entity, program or whatever.)"


What you say is impossible. Everyone has to depend on some entities, programs and whatevers. Like a job, like government roads, like government student loans for people to become doctors and scientists so we can have our lives saved when we end up in the hospital with critical disease,like people who risk their lives in the desert to do stoop labor so we can have food to put on our families................................... ..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Government is the only entity that can., posted on July 17, 2021 at 10:53:41
srdavis2000
Audiophile

Posts: 10707
Location: Deep South
Joined: January 11, 2003
Contributor
  Since: December 16, 2004
 Here you go again Tweaker. I understand that the government provides some things that we all depend on. Thank you government. If you were happy with what your government provides, then you wouldn't be bitching. My point is that if you need something beyond the side walks, roads, bridges, and people fighting on your behalf, then it's up to you to make it happen.

 

RE: Government is the only entity that can., posted on July 17, 2021 at 11:29:15
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7740
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 All I ever wanted was to have the government tax rich people and lay in bed while being served gourmet bon bons 24/7 by government paid for servants. Don't think that's too much to ask for.

48 Classic Gourmet Chocolate Bonbons | Gourmet Chocolate



So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Government is the only entity that can., posted on July 17, 2021 at 10:30:12
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7740
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 "It's kind of like a insurance." SS isn't kind of like insurance, it is insurance.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

If government hadn't created the 401(k), you'd likely have nothing., posted on July 17, 2021 at 10:17:20
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32569
Joined: July 14, 2017
 If government behaved the way it did pre-New Deal, you'd have likely died in your 40s and penniless.
Are your going to try to tell me the value of your retirement account didn't go down after the 2008 crash? If it's recovered its full value and more since then, it's because of G-O-V-E-R-N-M-E-N-T. The investment banks that tanked the economy would have simply taken your money and left you with nothing.
My parents both collected Social Security and it was never reduced. I don't know of anybody who ever had their Social Security reduced.
Private sector employers, on the other hand, renege on pension guarantees all the time.
The truth is that you owner of your own retirement, are every bit as dependent on government as me, pensioner and SS recipient. We both need government to protect our existences. The difference between us that I'm honest about it and feel no guilt about it.
BTW, those UC benefits? They exist as an economic stabilizer. They pay to workers so that workers can continue to buy things and keep other people--who think they built everything themselves--from going under.
And BTW II--you want to keep markets fat and happy, then you better keep SS recipients happy, too. Because without our spending power, you ain't got much of an economy left.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

+1 Private sector employers...renege on pension guarantees all the time., posted on July 17, 2021 at 16:46:48
Jay Buridan
Audiophile

Posts: 10282
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
 And the government then makes good on the broken promises.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

RE: If government hadn't created the 401(k), you'd likely have nothing., posted on July 17, 2021 at 10:45:35
srdavis2000
Audiophile

Posts: 10707
Location: Deep South
Joined: January 11, 2003
Contributor
  Since: December 16, 2004
 SS gets reduced when you die. If you single, it goes to nothing. If you are married, it gets reduced to half and goes to the wife or under aged kids. If you die and leave cash in the bank or an account, the government doesn't come in and scoop all or half of it. It all goes to the wife.

 

I'll be dead, so why do I care?, posted on July 17, 2021 at 11:13:25
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32569
Joined: July 14, 2017
 I have no control over anything that happens after I'm dead. My stepfather thought the same way you do, planned meticulously for my mom after he died and it all went to shit anyway. The investments ended up being worthless.
My wife gets her own SS plus my survivor benefit and her pension and my survivor benefit from my pension and my life insurance and the money we have in the bank. And she won't have me blowing dough on LPs and model cars. She'll be just fine.
OTOH, if government hadn't created your retirement plan, where would you be? If government didn't insure your deposits, you couldn't even trust your own money. You think a savings account would be safe if there were no deposit insurance? Take a look at what happened before FDR took office.
If the Bush and Obama Administrations and the Federal Reserve hadn't bailed out Wall Street after 2008, where would your retirement fund be?
What I'm selling and you're not getting is, you think you depend on yourself but you're just as dependent on government as I am. As we all are.
Even Jeff Bezos wouldn't have made his money if the government hadn't created the internet.




The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

RE: I'll be dead, so why do I care?, posted on July 17, 2021 at 11:39:08
srdavis2000
Audiophile

Posts: 10707
Location: Deep South
Joined: January 11, 2003
Contributor
  Since: December 16, 2004
 I understand the government provides services, and we pay taxes for those services. The rest is up to us. I'm good with that. You never hear me complaining.

 

RE: I'll be dead, so why do I care?, posted on July 17, 2021 at 11:32:38
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7740
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 FDR was a commie and Bezos has a giant pair (of boot straps) to pull on. Get with the program ghostie.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: When we bought our house, we COULD afford it., posted on July 17, 2021 at 09:44:17
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7740
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 "While we're on the subject, don't think for one minute that people who invest their way to retirement aren't just as dependent on government as any SS recipient." Very good and interesting point ghost. I fully admit I completely dropped the ball on proper investing and many times almost beg for young people to invest over a very long time and to start investing for their kid on day one. The government does allow for this system to exist and in recent times has kept interest rates at historic lows so as to result in unrepresented expansion of stock wealth or prices...



So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

Tax deferment?, posted on July 17, 2021 at 09:48:18
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32569
Joined: July 14, 2017
 Hell, the 401(k) was created by act of Congress.
And don't forget the most important factor of all, which is propping up financial markets. It's always the No. 1 priority any time there's a downturn. Take care of shareholders first and only after that is any little thing done for the workers who are always the first to suffer.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

RE: When I was that age, I was flat on my ass broke., posted on July 17, 2021 at 08:19:33
B. Scarpia
 In retirement I met a young man at my part time job with a wonderful wife and two kids. He was barely scraping by; the kids healthcare was only by the grace of Medicaid.

He was a clever fellow though, always solving problems and remaining cheerful. One day he came to me and an also retired part-timer and talked about the railroad hiring and what did we think. We thought he should interview and sit for the exam and loaned him the money to travel back and forth to the capital.

He was hired. Now he's a union member with incredible benefits and a stable future.

We don't hear many stories like that because they "don't sell newspapers" but every now and then there's a reference to jobs going unfilled, especially in IT and HR. Instead, we get a daily diet of how it's a shame that highly educated, risk taking CEO's make an average of 1,000 times the pay of their uneducated, unmotivated cashiers and box fillers.

 

The GINI index is a great indicator of a society's freedom. The best, posted on July 17, 2021 at 08:49:10
tinear
Audiophile

Posts: 65782
Location: Kansas City, KS
Joined: April 9, 2006
 way to explain it is to realize that in some societies a worker gets a fairer share of the scheme (all economic systems are such, of course) and in others he doesn't. Same work, different pay. Over time, the GINI correlates to upward mobility. The US is ridiculously poor in the mobility index. I'd say that's a pretty good indicator of our relative lack of freedom. I'd say the most free societies are the ones that don't continually have to harp on it, to brag about it, to feel a gun is critical to feeling "free."

 

Key words in your post..., posted on July 17, 2021 at 08:32:36
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32569
Joined: July 14, 2017
 "Union" and "member."
At least one, maybe two entire generations have grown up believing that unions steal from working people, give them nothing in return.
But it goes beyond CEO pay. There are so many things government should be doing on behalf of regular people that don't require increasing taxes on rich people. We've essentially got an oligopoly and it costs us all thousands of dollars every year. For example, just regulating telecoms would save the average family a ton of dough. Name another industry outside of health care where you don't know how much the service costs until you get the bill.




The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

RE: Well, that puts that topic to rest., posted on July 17, 2021 at 07:13:55
B. Scarpia

 

The real one last year was probably close to 20%, posted on July 17, 2021 at 06:58:45
Victor Khomenko
Manufacturer

Posts: 55319
Joined: April 5, 2000
 But since when do you doubt what the government tells us? :)


 

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