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Cute Chinese EV car may be coming

1.36.25.19

Posted on May 3, 2021 at 04:40:04
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 13130
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001

offering that Chinese price advantage.

$15,000 and $20,000 for EV with 200 miles+ of range would seem to make a nice city car and undercut the pricing of competition by 1/2. We'll see - but it's a cute cat lover's car.

 

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    ...
I like it but..., posted on May 3, 2021 at 04:59:29
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 16771
Joined: July 14, 2017
Americans won't. It's small, cheap, practical. It doesn't have 6 inches of superfluous ground clearance or 800 extra pounds of road hugging weight.
A car like this would be perfect for my wife, who rarely drives any farther than five or ten miles from home.
BTW, the styling looks like the old Mazda 2 that failed here because it was cheap and practical.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

Remember the Beetle? Some Americans will buy small and cheap. , posted on May 3, 2021 at 06:07:47
tinear
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Location: Kansas City, KS
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  Since:
April 8, 2006
IF it's well-built. And this is a whole different world with lots of young folks VERY concerned about the environment. That said, it may be a bargain--- but how dependable is this car maker's product? 50% cheaper means nothing if it sucks.

 

That was 50 years ago., posted on May 3, 2021 at 06:36:26
ghost of olddude55
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Posts: 16771
Joined: July 14, 2017
Actually, make it 60 years ago. Current Beetle? Dead. Like the Golf will be in a year or two.
Fifty five years ago, the Ford Mustang was top of the charts even though it was built like crap and was essentially Ford Falcon with 1950s technology under the purty sheet metal.
And people are so fucking concerned about the "environment" that the Ford F150 is the most popular vehicle on the planet.
They'll buy the Honda HRV faster than Honda can build them but run screaming from the 5-door hatchback its based on even though the Fit gets better gas mileage.



The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

The Smart car didn't do well ..., posted on May 3, 2021 at 06:50:20
reelsmith.
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I tend to agree. Americans don't want these.

When there is an electric Escalade with a 300+ mile range, then we might see sales take off.

Dean.






reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.


 

Neither did my car, a Scion IQ....., posted on May 3, 2021 at 07:46:43
TWB
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Posts: 6743
Location: Long Beach, California
Joined: January 5, 2001









People as a rule don't like small and reliable... Never the less, I LOVE my little car! It gets 38 miles to the gallon in combined highway and street driving, is FAR more comfortable and better handling than the Smart Car and under the sheet metal it is a Toyota! It's dependable with a capital D!!! My only wish is that it was a Aston Martin / Cygnet (same car in europe) with the leather interior and improved suspension and sound deadening materials. (interior top pic).. The ONLY two drawbacks to the car is that it is difficult to haul stuff and I can't take more than 2 passengers besides myself! Otherwise, it's a great car!

 

It's been YEARS since someone made a 5 door hatchback...., posted on May 3, 2021 at 08:00:10
TWB
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Posts: 6743
Location: Long Beach, California
Joined: January 5, 2001
worth having!.... If they did, I'd buy one! Last one that I recall that was a pretty good car was either the Mazda Protege wagon or the Mitsubishi Lancer Sportback. If the quality of the current Mitsubishi Mirage had been better, I might have bought one of those instead of my Scion IQ... Unfortunately, it's NOT!....

 

I try my best to avoid products from the PRC, posted on May 3, 2021 at 08:13:03
Jay Buridan
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Posts: 7790
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
e.g., Volvo.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

So were vinyl, sugar Cokes, typewriters, etc. all making strong comebacks in niche markets. , posted on May 3, 2021 at 08:21:18
tinear
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The new Beetle is one in name only; analogy doesn't fit.

 

The gas powered SMART car was fun to drive but...., posted on May 3, 2021 at 08:28:49
Ivan303
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Posts: 42215
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
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reliable it was not. Mechanical issues were Fiat-like.

Was considering an electric one as most of the mechanical parts(gas engine, transmission, etc) were not part of the package.

We're still looking for a used Leaf as 70 miles on a charge gets us into town and back with miles of range to spare plus 90% of our driving is within 15-20 miles of where we live .

Charging at home is free due to solar panels.








 

Because nobody in the US bought them., posted on May 3, 2021 at 08:38:36
ghost of olddude55
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Posts: 16771
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The rest of the world loves them. So do I, having owned a couple.
The closest you can come to a five-door is the Kia Rio. After that, you're looking at the Nissan Kicks, Honda HRV, Toyota CH-R, etc. All those little "crossovers" are hatchbacks but they were marketed as hatchbacks, nobody would buy them.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

30 mpg didn't cut it., posted on May 3, 2021 at 08:45:56
ghost of olddude55
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Posts: 16771
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Why suffer with the wonky gearbox (no manual was offered until not long before they pulled the car from the US market) and only two seats when a Honda Fit cost less, didn't break as often, and got better mileage?
My old Geo Metro got 46 mpg...in city traffic. It seated four and was every bit as shitty as the Smart.
BTW, you should check out the Smart models offered in other markets.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

The Nissan Kicks and Toyota CH-R are UGLY cars!...., posted on May 3, 2021 at 09:13:27
TWB
Audiophile

Posts: 6743
Location: Long Beach, California
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and the Kia Rio 5 is underwhelming both in looks, ergonomics and performance.... The Kia Spectra 5 door hatch wasn't a bad car, but if I remember corrrectly had some reliability issues. It was decent looking though...

 

They're ugly, but they sell like hotcakes., posted on May 3, 2021 at 09:27:48
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 16771
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What the Big Three never got about the VW Bug, the original Bug, was that people didn't buy them because they were great cars. They weren't great cars. The engine wasn't durable, the car rusted just as fast as anything built by GM, Ford, or Chrysler.
The folks who loved the Bug were giving "lower, longer, wider" the Finger. It wasn't that they wanted a little car. Shrinking a Galaxie wasn't going to win them over. The Bug was anti-planned obsolescence. Of course--it was already obsolete, having been designed in the 1930s.
The name of the game for consumers these days is conformity. I'll take what they're having, please. Today, a car like the Bug wouldn't stand a chance.
And no cheap cars either!!! What will the neighbors think, that I'm not credit-worthy?

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

Personally, I don't give a damn what the neighbors think!...., posted on May 3, 2021 at 09:43:15
TWB
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Posts: 6743
Location: Long Beach, California
Joined: January 5, 2001
For the most part, I've ALWAYS bought small cars, and doing my part for the environment... Easy on gas, economical to operate and reliable have ALWAYS been what I looked for. If the gubiment makes it mandatory to have an EV, I will probably give up driving at that point. Unless the prices come WAY down, and the distance of driving on a charge goes WAY up what would be the point of owning one? A road trip would be out based on current distances.

 

Same here., posted on May 3, 2021 at 09:51:40
ghost of olddude55
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Posts: 16771
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I drive what I like, which is mostly small cars. Hell, they're more fun to drive, too.
The government won't force anybody to buy and EV but the manufacturers will take away the choice between EV and ICE. You could make book on it.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

The car makers don't care about niche markets., posted on May 3, 2021 at 09:57:43
ghost of olddude55
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Posts: 16771
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If they did, they'd still be building 5-door hatchbacks. GM and Ford don't even build sedans.
You couldn't sell the old Bug as it was. Meeting emissions and safety standards are hopeless. VW would need to take a Golf and tart it up to look like an old Bug.
Which has already been done and, while the car appealed to a niche market, that niche market didn't appeal to VW management.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

There are lots and lots of them, posted on May 3, 2021 at 10:20:57
Dave_K
Audiophile

Posts: 3317
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VW Golf
Mazda 3
Honda Civic
Kia Rio
Hyundai Veloster
Mitsubishi Mirage
Subaru Impreza
Mini Cooper
Toyota Corolla
Toyota Prius
Chevy Spark
A couple of Audis

And that's not including the 5-door hatches that have been given crossover styling.

 

Not really that many compared with years past., posted on May 3, 2021 at 10:37:40
ghost of olddude55
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From what I've read on Jalopnik the Golf is going to be discontinued after this generation is done. The Toyota Corolla hatch doesn't sell well, and neither does the Mazda 3.
The Kia Rio used to have a badge-engineered sister, the Accent hatchback but that's gone, replaced by the Hyundai Venue (which has less cargo capacity than the Accent hatch).
The Hyundai Veloster is one of those rarest of rare birds on the US market, a 3-door hatch. According to Jalopnik, it's also on its way out.
And those "crossovers?" Shhhh...don't tell anybody they're hatchbacks. If they were marketed as hatchbacks, nobody would buy them either.
Back in the 1990s, everybody had a two-door or 5-door hatch. You could get a Chevy Corsica hatchback, the Camaro was a hatchback for years. I had a 1986 Dodge Lancer Turbo, and it was a 5-door hatchback.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

RE: The gas powered SMART car was fun to drive but...., posted on May 3, 2021 at 11:16:08
AbeCollins
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A used Leaf should be reasonably priced and exactly what you need for around town driving - if you can find one. A fun toy for you to play with too and much better than a golf cart ;-)



 

RE: What !!?? No more Golf ??, posted on May 3, 2021 at 11:19:30
AbeCollins
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I thought I read that VW will no longer sell standard Golfs in the US, just the GTi and R.

Are you saying VW is dropping the entire Golf line? I hope not.

P.S. I can't tell whether some Subaru's are hatchbacks, station wagons, or SUVs. Same for the Toyota Venza. That one failed years ago but Toyota brought it back.


 

Pretty sure the entire line will be gone at the end of this gen., posted on May 3, 2021 at 11:23:28
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 16771
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GTi and R will be the last of them; when the next gen is introduced, the US won't get any of them.
I'm surprised VW is still selling the Jetta and Passat in the US.
Performance cars don't sell. GM dropped the 4- and 6-cylinder 1LE Camaros. Hyundai will likely can the Veloster soon.
The US market is trucks and SUVs. Only a few of use want something else and we don't matter.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

Yeah, even Fiat 500 and Yugo sold here, posted on May 3, 2021 at 11:25:03
Jay Buridan
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Posts: 7790
Location: Michigan
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And Renault Alliance.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

But not for long., posted on May 3, 2021 at 11:28:44
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 16771
Joined: July 14, 2017
My mom wanted to buy a new car in 1981. I took her to test drive an Alliance. She ended up with a Ford Escort. The Escort was a POS but it was a vintage Benz compared to the Alliance.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

They still sell a lot of Jettas, posted on May 3, 2021 at 11:49:27
Dave_K
Audiophile

Posts: 3317
Joined: September 30, 2014
I'm not sure where, because I don't see new Jettas around here much anymore. But nationally, they sell in quantities similar to the Tiguan and Atlas.

This generation of the standard Golf hatch isn't selling. The Golf SportWagen sold more than twice the standard Golf, but it was discontinued last year. The Golf R sold as much as the standard Golf, but it was discontinued last year as well. But the standard Golf is still in the lineup, the least popular model of the whole family. I don't understand the strategy. At least they kept the GTI, which also outsells the standard Golf 2:1.

 

"Only a few of us want something else and we don't matter"..., posted on May 3, 2021 at 12:17:07
dark_dave56
Audiophile

Posts: 3455
Location: Ohio
Joined: August 29, 2019
...because you don't buy new cars. Manufacturers build what sells. If you bought a new vehicle every 2 (or even 4-5) years, your voice would be heard. Auto manufacturers are in the business of building and selling new vehicles. They don't give a rat's ass about the used car market or depreciation/re-sale value.

If 5-door hatchbacks with a stick were flying off the lots, there would be a whole row of them out-front and center. If you're only moving a couple thousand units a year, you're moving-on, to something that sells.


"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP

 

A friend of mine was an immigrant from behind the Iron Curtain, posted on May 3, 2021 at 13:06:14
Jay Buridan
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Posts: 7790
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Joined: January 21, 2004
She worked hard at a lousy job, pinched pennies, and saved enough money to buy a Renault Alliance which was a POS and this in the days before Michigan had a lemon law. Every part of the car that could fail did fail. This broke my friend's heart. The dealership wouldn't take the car back. So my friend made a protest sign and picketed the dealership on the days it stayed open late. After several months of picketing a local TV news program did a story about her plight. And guess what? The dealership wasted no time in giving her money back.

Nice true story but it makes me wonder if all French cars are shitty.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

RE: It's been YEARS since someone made a 5 door hatchback...., posted on May 3, 2021 at 13:17:53
kh6idf
Audiophile

Posts: 1343
Location: Texas
Joined: May 2, 2001

How about my Chevy Volt? Best car I've owned, and all the rest were Japanese (Honda, Subaru, Acura).

Of course it has been years since they made it, I think they discontinued the 2nd generation in 2019 (mine is 1st generation).

 

What's wrong with the Mazda3 I wonder?, posted on May 3, 2021 at 13:36:28
Dave_K
Audiophile

Posts: 3317
Joined: September 30, 2014
I've noticed that small crossover buyers aren't totally hostile when you tell them their car is just a tall hatchback. Just don't use the 'W' word if you're not looking for an argument.

I am genuinely surprised that the sales of the Mazda3 are falling off a cliff with the latest generation model. I think it's easily the best looking car in its class, the interior is near luxury, and you can even get it with the 2.5L turbo and/or AWD. The pricing is in line with the Corolla and Civic unless you go for the premium trims with the big engine. Those are options, along with AWD, that the competition doesn't even offer. And their average reliability scores are at the top of the list.

The Corolla, Civic, Senta, Elanta, Forte, and Jetta are all still selling strongly. So what's wrong with the Mazda3? I don't get it.

 

RE: Cute Chinese EV car may be coming, posted on May 3, 2021 at 13:45:07
Inmate51
Industry Professional

Posts: 14635
Location: Dallas Area
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I avoid buying from Communist countries whenever I can. China is not our friend.


****

We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.

 

I have a 2020 Mazda 3 hatchback and am very happy with it so far. Gets lottsa compliments. nt, posted on May 3, 2021 at 14:03:59
Rick W
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nt

 

I don't buy new cars because they don't make any I like., posted on May 3, 2021 at 14:05:10
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 16771
Joined: July 14, 2017
Not...a...single...one...

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

Surprising., posted on May 3, 2021 at 14:08:14
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 16771
Joined: July 14, 2017
All I see around here are Tiguans and Atlases as well.
I got all weak in the knees for a Jetta GLi. This was in 1984, and my ex-wife and I were in the market for a new car.
The Jetta GLi didn't sell either and the dealer was offering a substantial discount. But I loved the car too much. The ex-wife wasn't having any of it. Any car I liked that much was a non-starter with her.
We ended up with a Honda Civic. Better car than the Jetta but not nearly as much fun to drive.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

They're beautiful., posted on May 3, 2021 at 14:09:35
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 16771
Joined: July 14, 2017
But Mazda went upmarket with the car because it isn't selling. Charging more money, make more money per unit.

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

My wife had a 2000 Jetta GLX VR6, posted on May 3, 2021 at 14:41:48
Dave_K
Audiophile

Posts: 3317
Joined: September 30, 2014
It was a really nice little car. When it ran. That was the problem.

It was the one and only time we bought an extended warranty, and we sure did get our money's worth on that decision. It had problems right from the start and they never stopped, but we put 225K miles on it anyway because it was so nice.

 

French cars shitty?, posted on May 3, 2021 at 14:43:14
Dave Pogue
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Contributor
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Not in our experience. Three Renaults (two R8s and an R16) and a Peugeot 403. Loved 'em all.

 

I think the answer is yes, or at least was., posted on May 3, 2021 at 14:43:56
grantv
Manufacturer

Posts: 6358
Location: B.C.
Joined: January 15, 2002
That's a great ending to the story, thankfully it ended that way!
When my sister turned 17 she wanted to buy her first car, asked my opinion. She had saved up to buy brand new, no payments, as long as it was a reasonable car.
I pointed her to a couple options, but she wanted the bells and whistles, so ended up with a Renault Fuego, against my wishes.
Let's finish this with... her next new car was a Honda.

 

Buddy of mine had a regular 1982 Jetta., posted on May 3, 2021 at 14:45:24
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 16771
Joined: July 14, 2017
Not a GLi. The engine was durable but the wiring was awful. 50K miles, the fuse block fell apart. He had to build a new fuse block from whatever was handy. That kind of stuff never happened with Hondas.
IMO, for that GLi, would have been worth it. I owned an '84 Rabbit GTi for a few months about 20 years ago and the memories of that car are still fresh. Even though it had been thrashed to pieces, it was the most fun I've ever had behind the wheel of a car.
I've got a Cobalt Super Sport now, and it'll run rings around that GTi, but the GTi was more fun to drive, hands down. Better seats, better shifter, about 800 pounds lighter. No need for power steering. Lots of glass, great sight lines....

The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?

 

RE: There are lots and lots of them, posted on May 3, 2021 at 15:30:56
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 13130
Location: Hong Kong
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Don't forget the Kia Soul which I believe is the number one selling car in its class and is a tiny hatchback they probably call an SUV or CUV but it's a hatchback no matter what they call it. Some find it ugly but it's small, cheap, and sells well. It's also gutless. People love them.

 

RE: I like it but..., posted on May 3, 2021 at 15:46:51
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 13130
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
Some of the cars like FIAT failed because of horrendous reliability.

This Cat car out of China may work like the original Beetle. It has to be affordable and not suck like Mitsubishi Mirage. From the appearance, it looks way WAY better. It has to be comfortable for bigger people. Americans are bigger people than the Chinese on average. So each seat will need to be able to hold the extra 100-200lbs.

The Great Wall car company has been around since 1984 so assuming they are reliable - that will have to be the case with a move to America.

They will have to look at the cars that failed (Fiat, Golf, New Beetle) and one of those issues was lack of reliability and expensive repair costs. Selling an EV for 1/2 the price of the next closest competition would get people to consider them.

Some Poor people want to be green too but can't afford to be.

All the greenies in University want to by ethically sourced this or that but when the single mom has to buy clothes for the three kids - you can buy all three kids jeans and tops for the same price as one pair of jeans at the boutique made in the USA green shop. So you may want to buy American but the price at Walmart makes it impossible. Levis in Walmart - $19.99 Levis at the Bay or Seas $69.99. So umm ... You bring your Sears bag - buy the jeans at Walmart and then go to the bathroom and put the jeans in the Sears bag and no ones the wiser.

My mom did that with name-brand cereal - bought one box of "Cheerios" and for the next 10 years bought "Generic" and put the bag in the Cheerios box. Nothing too good for Richard! LOL.

Still - if the kitty cat car is say 40% less money than the competition and say comes with a Kia-like warranty - that may help sell them.

They have to offer more for less.


 

RE: What's wrong with the Mazda3 I wonder? Nothing at all!, posted on May 3, 2021 at 17:45:27
Rod M
Web Geek

Posts: 13455
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  Since:
March 1, 1999
My son bought one and after driving it, I was sold. It looks great with proper wheels, has plenty of zip with the standard 4 banger and handles like a BMW 3 series. Mazda also has one of the best UIs for the screen with controls on the center arm rest.




.
-Rod

 

heck, the Escalade's big enough to have an on-board fission reactor..., posted on May 3, 2021 at 18:08:22
mhardy6647
Audiophile

Posts: 14188
Location: New England
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Contributor
  Since:
October 23, 2016
to generate electricity to charge its batteries.


all the best,
mrh

 

I like many..... just can't afford them ;-), posted on May 3, 2021 at 21:05:38
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 37877
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Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since:
February 2, 2002
.

 

RE: I don't buy new cars because they don't make any I like., posted on May 4, 2021 at 04:09:09
dark_dave56
Audiophile

Posts: 3455
Location: Ohio
Joined: August 29, 2019
That's not true! A Golf GTI or GT-R, a Honda Civic Si or R would be right up your alley, but you don't/won't pay for one, so, they too, will go away. The Mazda 3 is also in your wheelhouse, but you won't buy one.

It's the opposite of the old "Field of Dreams" theory--"if you build it they will come"--in this case, "they will build it if you will buy it".


"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP

 

Price increase? Not from what I see., posted on May 4, 2021 at 11:45:23
Rick W
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Price is about the same as I paid last year. I have the Premium package.

 

RE: Price increase? Not from what I see., posted on May 4, 2021 at 16:15:07
Dave_K
Audiophile

Posts: 3317
Joined: September 30, 2014
At the high end, they are more expensive than the Civic and Corolla. But you can't buy a Civic or Corolla with AWD and an equivalent of the 2.5 turbo.

If you stick to 2WD and the naturally aspirated engines, the pricing is right in line with the Civic and Corolla and it's still nicer.

I really don't understand how the new 3 isn't a sales success. The previous 3 sold well, and the new 3 built on that with reduced NVH, sleeker styling, nicer interior design, and wish list items like AWD and the turbo.

 

RE: They're beautiful., posted on May 5, 2021 at 20:12:55
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 13130
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001

The top-of-the-line Mazda 6 is cheaper than the top-of-the-line Toyota Camry or Accord and the Mazda looks a lot nicer IMO and drivers seem to feel they drive the best. And that Soul Red is the best red in cars.

Savage Geese is one of the best review sites.

 

Mine is AWD with naturally aspirated engine. I didn't want a turbo. nt, posted on May 7, 2021 at 09:50:39
Rick W
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Joined: October 3, 2001
Contributor
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March 22, 2002
nt

 

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