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Okay, I have been painting with AVM for two weeks but have no understanding of why it works. It does!

71.113.245.190
Posted on March 1, 2008 at 15:24:58
Norm
Reviewer

Posts: 31024
Joined: September 6, 2000
 I have painted amp and source devices' transformers with enormous improvements. I have painted circuit boards in source devices with enormous improvements. I have painted input and connection wires with enormous improvements. I have painted cds with ugly results but enormous improvements. I have painted the housings of ac plugs with enormous improvements. I have painted caps in my amp with enormous improvement. I have painted the glass on tubes, mainly the IsoCleans with enormous improvements. I have yet to paint tubes, wall outlet covers, interconnects, speaker spiders, magnets, or crossovers, or windows in my listening room (Just kidding. My wife would kick me out). By enormous differences I mean that the bass becomes extended, profound, and has tone differences. One can much more feel the impact on ones body. The treble becomes quite extended and sweet, resolving every nuance in the recording including ambient decay making you hear differences in each recording venue. Vocalists are incredibly present and realistically sized. Everything sounds effortless and real. What seems most odd about it is the absence of anything becoming overdampened, but maybe this just requires doing more than I have done. This stuff, a rather viscous blue paint that dries to a very dull finish and gets much better after about 24 hours of set up, is a real enigma. Supposedly it deals with resonances but whether they are motion vibrations or electromagnetic vibrations, I don't know.

Were all manufacturers to treat their equipment, we would have a quantum jump in the quality of our sound.

 

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Sorry, I failed to add their webpage., posted on March 1, 2008 at 21:41:35
Norm
Reviewer

Posts: 31024
Joined: September 6, 2000
 Go to http://www.universalkaraoke.com/ and look under AVM.

 

I have to ask..., posted on March 1, 2008 at 23:14:47
Wellfed
Audiophile

Posts: 11226
Joined: January 11, 2008
 Can I afford it? I see no mention of price.

 

One can't help wondering..., posted on March 2, 2008 at 06:52:57
geoffkait
 if anyone has ever compared AVM paint with full complement of Marigo Dots and/or C-37 lacquer, both of which appear to operate in a somewhat similar fashion. Are such comparisons even posssible?

 

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe comparing outlet covers., posted on March 2, 2008 at 06:59:08
Enophile
Bored Member

Posts: 25269
Location: Northern Californistan
Joined: October 15, 2005
Contributor
  Since: August 5, 2012
 Something that would be relatively easy to swap in and out. (You could try it with your brand to see if it made a difference, too.)

Treated and untreated CD's.

Maybe a hat or a vest.





 

That's a good point. How many irreversible, posted on March 2, 2008 at 07:31:26
geoffkait
 things can you think of? Like CD treatments, the Intelligent Chip... Maybe throw in attitudes.

:-)

 

Some comparisons that I have made, posted on March 2, 2008 at 07:44:59
Norm
Reviewer

Posts: 31024
Joined: September 6, 2000
 I find the Acoustic Revive QR-8s very powerful. In some locations they have enormous benefits, such as in the center of the wall behind the speakers and on the base of 300B tubes. But elsewhere they are harmful such as in the drawer of my cd player or on supertweeters. Some places they do nothing. I have Shun Mook Mpingo disks and continue to use a few, but in some places they harm my sound rather than help. I have used Marigo Dots and still have some on my walls. I did find they had a very slight benefit on caps and chips as well as on cabinets of electronics. I still have some Harmonix vibration devices, such as rings for RCA jacks, with many now in a drawer. They provided some minor improvements. I could go on relative to some of what I have had from you, which I still use. Again the benefits are there but not major.

I have not tried the C-37 lacquer nor know of anyone who has. I have heard of using it on speaker diaphragms for stiffening, where one would certainly not use AVM.

All that I can really say is that what I have experienced with the AVM paint far surpasses the impact of other similar products, if there are really similar products. I say this as I really don't know if the effects are purely vibration control. I hope also that I stressed strongly enough that I don't know that these effects would transfer to another person or another set of electronics.

I know, however, that there are others in quite different circumstances that also extoll the benefits of using AVM. When HP of TAS recommended the Reference 3A Grand Veenas, I sought them out at the RMAF. They were quite good but too bright. Nevertheless I strongly urged several friends to visit their suite. Each was quite impressed although the one who was in the market for new speakers, as yet, has failed to buy them. At THE Show, I again listened to them. They were now not bright. When I asked about that, I was told that their large cap had just been put into them at the RMAF and now was fully broken in. This resulted in a more extensive discussion that ultimately informed me that they used AVM extensively throughout the speakers.

The impact of this stuff is not subtle at all. Last evening I treated the input circuit board on my H-Cat. After several hours of drying time, I fired up the system and heard a big improvement in the precision of the sound with a resulting shocking realism to the original recording venue. I know that today it will be better yet. I now need to treat more cds as I can no longer listen to those untreated. I also wish there were the possibility to help my vinyl source apart from treating the phono stage. I have seen pictures of headshells and connections on a cartridge, but I really cannot see painting my Shindo Labs tone arm or cartridge. Where will this end?


 

The smallest amount is a 20 ml bottle which will retail in US for $95. nt, posted on March 2, 2008 at 08:23:44
Norm
Reviewer

Posts: 31024
Joined: September 6, 2000
 a

 

Gracias..., posted on March 2, 2008 at 08:45:22
Wellfed
Audiophile

Posts: 11226
Joined: January 11, 2008
 How far does a 20ml bottle go?

 

RE: Some comparisons that I have made, posted on March 2, 2008 at 10:56:02
geoffkait
 You intimate the AVM paint might be something more than Anti Vibrational in nature. The paint appears to be marketed as "anti vibrational." What, if anything, gives you cause to suspect there might be something more (mysterious) going on?

Furthermore, do you think that now that your system is better after the AVM treatments - presumably more "revealing" - do you think that tweaks that didn't, uh, work out so grandly as the AVM paint might now be more, uh, effectatious?

 

I had wondered the same..., posted on March 2, 2008 at 11:25:39
Wellfed
Audiophile

Posts: 11226
Joined: January 11, 2008
 My educated guess says, yes; or to be more precise, probably.

 

Damn you Geoff, now I have more experiments to do., posted on March 2, 2008 at 14:07:41
Norm
Reviewer

Posts: 31024
Joined: September 6, 2000
 I just experimented with the Acapella feet under the line stage and found I could clearly hear where they sounded best. I also found that your Pebbles in a baggie sounded great on the side ledge of my LaCampanellas half way back. What a pain we go to for realism.

 

My wall outlet is the all in one IsoClean, but I want to paint it also. Sometime. nt, posted on March 2, 2008 at 14:09:36
Norm
Reviewer

Posts: 31024
Joined: September 6, 2000
 a

 

Let us be happy in our work., posted on March 2, 2008 at 14:54:37
geoffkait
 Famous line from The Bridge on the River Kwai.


:-)

 

Assuming Project Q is the same as AVM...prices are, posted on March 2, 2008 at 16:43:04
hotbird
Audiophile

Posts: 345
Joined: April 11, 2007

100 cc of Project Q blue paint 20000Y (USD$193)
10 cc of Project Q blue paint 3675Y (USD$35)
(at http://ge3-store.biz/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=29&osCsid=65abcb4552ab730adad95f63d8bea180)

Seems Japan much cheaper then, especially when you buy the 100cc bottle

 

The question is, of course, whether ProjectQ does anything. nt, posted on March 2, 2008 at 17:37:33
Norm
Reviewer

Posts: 31024
Joined: September 6, 2000
 a

 

Jim Hagerman, posted on March 2, 2008 at 18:23:17
unclestu52
Dealer

Posts: 6982
Location: Hawaii
Joined: March 5, 2005
 has experimented with painting the tops of tubes with the plastic grip paint sold for coating things like plier handles with good sound benefits.
Don't know how the AVM coating is, but it may be similar.


Stu

 

OT: Do you know the premise behind Ge3's use of white fur? [nt], posted on March 2, 2008 at 20:12:16
Wellfed
Audiophile

Posts: 11226
Joined: January 11, 2008
 nt

 

Question that may not be feasible., posted on March 2, 2008 at 21:19:55
Enophile
Bored Member

Posts: 25269
Location: Northern Californistan
Joined: October 15, 2005
Contributor
  Since: August 5, 2012
 Have you considered applying it to the outside of a speaker horn?

I have some vintage La Scala's I've wanted to try things with, but haven't yet.

The outside of the La Scala horns is hidden by the cabinet, so there would not be an aesthetic issue. With your horns, painting the outside might lower the WAF too far, but it seems an intriguing area.

I've read about people using rope caulk to damp horns, but have heard both positive and negative.

Selective damping is very interesting.





 

RE: The question is, of course, whether ProjectQ does anything. nt, posted on March 3, 2008 at 00:57:00
hotbird
Audiophile

Posts: 345
Joined: April 11, 2007

Well, it must be doing something, and you can see lots of pictures on its audio usage by clicking the links on below URL
I am averse to applying something irreversible in the system, so I am giving it a miss ;-)

 

It might work, but I won't be trying it., posted on March 3, 2008 at 06:07:20
Norm
Reviewer

Posts: 31024
Joined: September 6, 2000
 There is the possibility that a thin layer might be used to cover the horns and then AVM painted on it. I know of such a material which is used by surgeons but not where to get it.

 

I will pass also. ProjectQ seems thinner. nt, posted on March 3, 2008 at 06:10:17
Norm
Reviewer

Posts: 31024
Joined: September 6, 2000
 a

 

C-37 Lacquer, posted on March 3, 2008 at 07:15:16
geoffkait
 The primary obstacle for C-37 lacquer is the drying time, which is about 10 weeks, during which time the sound fluctuates between good/bad. What self respecting audiophile is willing to wait 10 weeks til the system is stable again? And who can perform an A/B comparison 10 weeks apart? Consider the standard audiophile Modus Operandi of constantly changing things in and out of the system, and introducing a bevy of new tweaks, during the 10 week period, determining if you've been fluctuated out of your money would be extremely challenging, if not impossible.

 

Ge3 does not provide any scientific premise, posted on March 3, 2008 at 08:50:02
hotbird
Audiophile

Posts: 345
Joined: April 11, 2007

for most its products unlike Acoustic Revive.
All I know that the furry stuff (they termed it Angel Fur) are used in various accesories that they sell. You can hang them, pad them or used it to cover a stone-like grounding conditioner that they make. Haven't tried any but users comments on their website mention that they improve imaging, and covering the grounding stone makes the music more vivid and lively. Hmmmm....weird isn't it? ;-)

 

They don't call us controversial for nothing. [nt], posted on March 3, 2008 at 13:07:12
Wellfed
Audiophile

Posts: 11226
Joined: January 11, 2008
 ;-)

 

Someone has pointed out that I misspoke saying I painted the glass on tubes mainly IsoCleans. I meant fuses., posted on March 4, 2008 at 20:02:52
Norm
Reviewer

Posts: 31024
Joined: September 6, 2000
 As yet I have painted no fuses.

 

RE: Someone has pointed out that I misspoke saying I painted the glass on tubes mainly IsoCleans. I meant fuse, posted on March 5, 2008 at 00:52:32
May Belt
Manufacturer

Posts: 681
Location: Leeds UK
Joined: March 16, 2005
 Norm,
Now you have had the experience of trying different things and being able to 'hear' so much more information, can I ask you to pause now, and to sit and think ?

Where has this additional information come from ? Where has it been all this time ?

What has had an effect on what ? Where ? How ?

Regards,
May Belt.

 

I assume that vibrations have been inducing signals in the electronics, posted on March 5, 2008 at 06:03:56
Norm
Reviewer

Posts: 31024
Joined: September 6, 2000
 Some of it is 60 and 120 Hz induced by the power supply and some music induced electromagnetically and by the speakers. There is little question that the noise floor is sharply reduced and the music crisper with a better leading edge. Frankly, it is hard to believe the benefits of painting the IEC chassis mount and fuse holder, but then I have yet to find some benefit in painting anything associated with audio reproduction. As I said, laughingly I suggested that I should paint my listening room windows. As I know from previous window treatments, such as placing an Acoustic Revive QR-8 in the center of each window, painting would probably help, but would get me run out of the house.

 

RE: Okay, I have been painting with AVM for two weeks but have no understanding of why it works. It does!, posted on March 22, 2008 at 18:10:38
yotacowboy
Audiophile

Posts: 169
Joined: November 11, 2004
 hmmm... looks strangely similar to artist's latex masking paint, but i could be wrong...

 

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