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Midrange horn directivity and "near field" position

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Posted on January 10, 2022 at 22:47:11
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 hi all,

I've been using the same EV SM120 (see link) midrange horns for many years, in the 500 to 6000Hz range. Driver is John Allen A55G, 1inch (more like 3/4 inch) screw-on driver.
The SM120 horn has a very wide 120° horizontal dispersion.

I'm tempted to try the new super cheap PRV D2200Ph 2inch driver with ZXPC 18 x 10 horn, which is a modern horn with a 90 x 40 directivity and is very similar to the "best" Klipsch mid horns (K510, K402) in expansion. this combination has been measured extremely linear and low distortion on the 400 to 9000 range on the Klipsch forums.

My main question is relative to the shape of the horn and its directivity.
I'm listening in what can be considered near field (for a big horn system): around 10feet from the speakers.
so far so good, the associated tweeters (Beyma CP25) have a 100° horizontal dispersion and it all sounds very good together.
What would happen if I switch horns? Won't I lose a lot of the diffuse sound, and get something that is overly directive / dry? My speakers are along the long wall and side reflections are somewhat of a non issue in my current room.
Also, I fear the modern ZXPC horn might be more beamy, and won't match the polar characteristics of the CP25 tweeters?

Reason why I wanna try is I keep reading about the superiority of 2inch drivers but I know there's more to it than just throat size.

would you guys try it? the price is certainly cheap enough but still, wasting money isn't something I enjoy.

Thanks!

 

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RE: Midrange horn directivity and "near field" position, posted on January 10, 2022 at 22:49:19
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 Here's the ZXPC horn I'm considering:

 

RE: Midrange horn directivity and "near field" position, posted on January 10, 2022 at 22:50:39
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 And here's the link on the Klipsch forums, with measurements:

 

RE: Midrange horn directivity and "near field" position, posted on January 11, 2022 at 04:49:43
claudej1@aol.com
Audiophile

Posts: 817
Location: Detroit
Joined: August 17, 2007
 I have a whole bunch of 2" drivers laying around and a pair of those ZXPC horns. I can do angular measurements for you, if you like.

 

RE: Midrange horn directivity and "near field" position, posted on January 11, 2022 at 04:51:41
morricab
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 9178
Location: switzerland
Joined: April 1, 2005
 I am using an 18 Sound XT1464 horn with a 1.4 inch compression driver from Beyma (CP755Ti...really exceptionally good sounding driver). This doesn't run quite as low as you are going (it is fine from 800Hz up to almost 20Khz) so maybe that disqualifies it.

 

RE:superiority of 2inch drivers , posted on January 11, 2022 at 04:59:10
Bill Fitzmaurice
Industry Professional

Posts: 5370
Location: New England
Joined: October 20, 2002
 2" drivers by and large have lower Fs and higher Vd than smaller diaphragms, so they tend to work better to lower frequencies. As always there's no such thing as a free lunch. What's given up in this case is that 2" throats don't load as high as smaller throats. If you've got a separate HF element that's not an issue. Where directivity is concerned it's mainly going to be affected in the higher frequencies, again not an issue if you have a separate HF element.

 

RE: Midrange horn directivity and "near field" position, posted on January 17, 2022 at 23:44:49
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 Well, that would be sweet! :-) thanks a lot!

 

RE: Midrange horn directivity and "near field" position, posted on January 17, 2022 at 23:48:00
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 I just realized that we are already talking on the Klipsch forums (last exchange was about chip amps) my nickname there is Rolox ;-)

 

RE: Midrange horn directivity and "near field" position, posted on January 18, 2022 at 13:22:25
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 Well, I'm very disappointed, I wanted to buy the ZXPC 18x10 horns today, but you can't buy if you're outside the USA!!! :-( so I'm looking for someone who would agree to buy the horns for me and ship them to me, or for a pre-owned pair of 18x10 horns...

 

RE: Midrange horn directivity and "near field" position, posted on January 20, 2022 at 17:44:24
hollowboy
Audiophile

Posts: 263
Location: Melbourne
Joined: June 26, 2007
 In the past, you didn't have to be in the USA to buy the ZXPC stuff (I got some horns sent to Australia). Maybe their ebay sales work differently to their website?

I use one rig with a (modified / extended) ZXPC mid horn in the near field. For that, the direct sound is much much louder than the room sound, and I like it.

In my living room, I have a very different system also based around a 2" horn, but wider throw and larger listening distance ...and I like that too.

So, for me, the question "Won't I lose a lot of the diffuse sound, and get something that is overly directive / dry?"

...means nothing. To me, both options can sound good :)

For what its worth, I wanted to like midrange compression drivers (I tried vintage JBL and Community M200), but I ended up going with cone drivers instead.

 

RE: Midrange horn directivity and "near field" position, posted on January 20, 2022 at 21:53:54
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 Well, you can buy them off eBay, sure, but they ask 83$ shipping costs for EACH 43$ horn. It's ridiculous. They don't even try to make a packaged shipping when you buy a pair. Plus they don't answer to messages. poor customer service if you ask me.

Turns out Parts Express has the same identical horn, sold under the PRV brand, in their catalog, with shipping abroad possible and much cheaper shipping options - but currently out of stock (OF COURSE)

I've been looking each and every website that sells pro drivers and horns, trying to find that horn in Europe, no luck (since it's just a generic made in China horn sold under different brands) and, of course, I tried AliExpress - where I usually buy plenty of stuff - but no luck either. :-( it's becoming the most elusive piece of equipment ever.

 

RE: Midrange horn directivity and "near field" position, posted on January 21, 2022 at 07:17:49
claudej1@aol.com
Audiophile

Posts: 817
Location: Detroit
Joined: August 17, 2007
 How bad do you want that horn? Even at the high shipping cost, it's still much easier and CHEAPER than BUILDING one!

Look at the price of a pair JBL 2380 horns, which is 2-3X that that without shipping.

No lack of "cheapskates'thinking" on this forum is there?

 

RE: Midrange horn directivity and "near field" position, posted on January 22, 2022 at 01:00:22
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 Well yes, eventually I will have to order from Ebay, but when you see the same horn on PartsExpress or other websites (out of stock everywhere) with a quarter of the shipping costs for the same shipping address it gets frustrating. When the horns arrive here in Belgium I have to pay 33% + 21% import taxes and VAT, all calculated on the global cost (msrp of the object + shipping costs)

I did find a website in Cura

 

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