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Questions for Salectric and Lokie re P15LL

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Posted on March 10, 2017 at 10:53:39
bald2
Audiophile

Posts: 153
Location: Oregon
Joined: January 21, 2006
Greetings-
I have some 32B horns and am thinking of building a two way with the P15LL. I'm looking for cabinet and crossover suggestions. Can you help?

Thanks-

Harry Z

 

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RE: Questions for Salectric and Lokie re P15LL, posted on March 10, 2017 at 16:57:07
Salectric
Audiophile

Posts: 1014
Location: East Coast
Joined: February 23, 2003
Contributor
  Since:
November 13, 2015
What compression driver are you going to use on the 32 horn?

I can send you some cabinet and crossover information later this weekend after I return home from a trip.

 

RE: Questions for Salectric and Lokie re P15LL, posted on March 10, 2017 at 17:20:37
bald2
Audiophile

Posts: 153
Location: Oregon
Joined: January 21, 2006
I'm probably going to use the Emilar EA 175 or Altec 802Ds, if I can find some at a reasonable price.

My email is harryzweben@yahoo

Thanks:)

 

RE: Questions for Salectric and Lokie re P15LL, posted on March 10, 2017 at 17:37:33
lokie
Audiophile

Posts: 1234
Location: Georgia, USA
Joined: January 28, 2003
My first advice is to do it... you wont be sorry.

I'll get back to you as to cabinet size and dimensions when I get back home from traveling. I think it's around 5.5 cu ft?

Regarding crossover... the impedance on the Jensen P15ll's is approx. 16ohm's. Do you know which compression driver you plan to use and it's corresponding impedance? Salectric uses an 8 ohm and I use a 16ohm... so either one will work fine but the crossover will need to be designed accordingly.

Have you checked out the JE Labs site? some good nuggets there.

I will be glad to help w any questions you have but Salectric is the man here and has helped me more than I can ever thank him.

I love these speakers. They are not perfect but are the best speakers I have heard in my house and considerably better than the Tannoys I had previously.

 

RE: Questions for Salectric and Lokie re P15LL, posted on March 11, 2017 at 04:16:21
Randal P
Audiophile

Posts: 33
Location: NYC Area
Joined: August 19, 2004
"Reasonable Price" is relative. The current benchmark is the GPA 802G at about $500 a pair. They are new and guaranteed to meet spec. If you find used 802's on Ebay you may need to replace the diaphragms ($90 from GPA) or even remagnetize them. Unless you get them really cheap you'll end up spending the same price. However you may get lucky. I found a pair of 802D's with new diaphragms for a good price from a fellow enthusiast who was looking just to get his money back.

There is currently a pair of 802D's on Ebay with a field coil conversion. They are very tempting. But with more than two days to go they are at $385/pair. I can see them going for some silly money.

 

Do not assume Field Coils are better........, posted on March 11, 2017 at 08:01:56
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9706
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
The field coil conversion, may, or may not be better than the original alnico. Do not assume, because its a field coil, that it is automatically better than the alnico !!

More than a dozen RCA filed coil drivers ( MI-1428B and MI-1443s ) I have personally owned, and have passed through my hands. I was an early user and proponent of these, ( and I owned six RCA Ubangie Bass Horns, all at one time ). Today, I am VERY happy having ALTEC alnico 802Ds, remagged and GPA re-diaphragmed. YMMV.

There are other areas where we can gain performance. IMHO, "I" would NOT ever buy a magnet "converted" 802 unless I was able to A-B them in a relaxed manner, over time, on my system. No-knowing - WHAT will sound best. You better have a GOOD amp and a good source, and optimized wiring / a truly optimized crossover, when you compare 'em, to make a good determination.

My post's point is " a field coil is NOT necessarily automatically better , AND, it may be automatically worse."

See if anyone here can figure out why this might be so, technically. I know someone, very experienced with early movie theater W.E. RCA, etc, who has this figured out.

Jeff Medwin

 

Email sent, posted on March 12, 2017 at 11:06:54
Salectric
Audiophile

Posts: 1014
Location: East Coast
Joined: February 23, 2003
Contributor
  Since:
November 13, 2015
I sent you an email. Let me know if you didn't receive it.

 

RE: Questions for Salectric and Lokie re P15LL, posted on March 15, 2017 at 08:40:53
Hornlover
Manufacturer

Posts: 2107
Joined: March 8, 2002
The P15LL was designed for the Jensen Imperial corner horn. It performs very well in that design. If you have the room, that is what I would recommend. I have 3D cad modeled plans for the enclosure if you want them.

 

RE: Questions for Salectric and Lokie re P15LL, posted on March 15, 2017 at 10:17:17
bald2
Audiophile

Posts: 153
Location: Oregon
Joined: January 21, 2006
Thanks. I bet it's terrific.

For now I've decided to build the JE Labs Altec 414 two way. I may build a bigger system later. I already have the 32B horns, 414Zs en route, cabinets (need baffles cut) and crossover parts are coming together.

Much appreciated to all:)

Harry

 

RE: Questions for Salectric and Lokie re P15LL, posted on April 6, 2017 at 13:08:52
Hi, sorry to butt in but am i right in thinking you have your 32 horn mounted inside the cab, and that you previously had altec 414s in the same cab?

Im looking at building a bigger cab so i can house everything inside. Im currently using a 614 cab with 414, 32 horn, gpa902 and jelabs crossovers and its not popular with the wife having the horn on top!

I saw quite an elegant solution where a french chap made a bigger cab in the style of a shindo speaker but having the port on the bottom is a bit beyond me...

 

RE: Questions for Salectric and Lokie re P15LL, posted on April 6, 2017 at 13:19:42
Salectric
Audiophile

Posts: 1014
Location: East Coast
Joined: February 23, 2003
Contributor
  Since:
November 13, 2015
Yes, that's right. My 32 horns have always been mounted in the same cabinet as the woofer, similar to the Western Electric 753. I started with the 414 woofers in a 3.2 cu ft cabinet, and later replaced them with the 15" Jensen P15LL in the same cabinets. I eventually built new cabinets that were 5 cu ft thinking I would get deeper bass. Unfortunately the bigger cabinets just never sounded as good as the 3.2 cabinets. I am not sure why, but this could be due to other differences and not just the cabinet volume. In any event, the easy solution was to go back to the 3.2 cabinets which is still what I am using today.

While I have never tried the 32 horn outside the woofer cabinet, I did try an Emilar horn both inside and outside the woofer cabinet, and I thought it sounded better when mounted directly to the cabinet. The sound was more coherent, more like a single driver, than when the horn was on top of the woofer cabinet.

 

RE: Questions for Salectric and Lokie re P15LL, posted on April 6, 2017 at 13:51:35
Thanks!

I think the cab im using (the 614) is about 3.2cf and after reading a comment on the jelabs blog last year i was convinced a larger cab would be better and at the same time allow me to get the horn hidden away, and now that i have some room i was going to give it a go.

Back to the drawing board then...

 

RE: Questions for Salectric and Lokie re P15LL, posted on April 10, 2017 at 12:42:42
bald2
Audiophile

Posts: 153
Location: Oregon
Joined: January 21, 2006
My cabs are 4.5 cubic feet but I'm not going to put the 32 inside, as the magnets prevent close alignment of drivers. Center to center distance would be acceptable yet this places the 414 too low for listening, even on stands.

I'm also going to compare the 32 with a pair of Edgar salad bowl horns before making a decision and mounting on top will be helpful for starters...

The JE Labs crossover models at about 1150hz with my drivers, incidentally (16 ohm EA 175s and 16 ohm 414Zs). The DCR on all is between 11 and 12 ohms but my understanding is that AC is more important, in actual application...

Harry

 

RE: Questions for Salectric and Lokie re P15LL, posted on April 11, 2017 at 02:02:47
I gather that having the magnets in close proximity isnt a problem, the altec 9849 was designed this way.

My plan now is to try and remove my speakers front and make a new one copying the altec 9849 as the dimensions are otherwise the same. I still cant help feeling a bigger cabinet would be better, and have found discussions on a french forum where somone is reccomending 150-180 litre cabinets (about 5.2-6.3 cubic feet.

Your cabinet of 4.5 sounds promising, id be very interested in how they turn out.

 

RE: Questions for Salectric and Lokie re P15LL, posted on April 11, 2017 at 05:30:20
lokie
Audiophile

Posts: 1234
Location: Georgia, USA
Joined: January 28, 2003
Here's mine.




 

The Holy Grail, posted on April 11, 2017 at 05:39:40
lokie
Audiophile

Posts: 1234
Location: Georgia, USA
Joined: January 28, 2003



Maybe I'm telling you something you already know, but what we are making here is a poor mans Western Electric 753C. In my opinion, one of the most beautiful speakers on the planet.

Mint condition will get $20k per speaker.




 

RE: Questions for Salectric and Lokie re P15LL, posted on April 24, 2017 at 10:51:25
bald2
Audiophile

Posts: 153
Location: Oregon
Joined: January 21, 2006






Got the cabinets built over the weekend. Started with re-purposed JBL Barzilay cabinets that had LE 14s replaced with Altec 418Bs. Removed those and had to fill the holes for the 418s and JBL horn.

New components are 414Zs and I'm playing around with horns- using the Emilar EA 175-16 alnico 1" compression drivers and Bowtie horns and 32Bs initially. So far I prefer the Bowties. They sound great. Cabinets are tuned to 40hz and seem to go lower in room.

Harry

 

RE: Questions for Salectric and Lokie re P15LL, posted on April 24, 2017 at 11:00:21
bald2
Audiophile

Posts: 153
Location: Oregon
Joined: January 21, 2006



More pics.
Baffles, backs and braces were cut with a CNC router to plans from my buddy Scott Kaufman in the Portland area. CNC work done by Steve Knight of Knight Toolworks in Portland. Construction done with close friend Pete Riggle in Kennewick, Washington over three days with regular partaking of libation and good food. 15-20 hours of sweat equity later... they sound marvelous.

Am going to be trying an Edgar 650hz Salad Bowl horn as well as my 32Bs and Bowtie horns in the coming weeks. Crossovers are from JE Labs N1600 modded drawing, first order parallel. Caps are paper in oil Ronken and Sprague and resistors are Mills wirewound, I believe. Added a 16 ohm P-E L Pad to tame the tweeter a bit. They sound way bigger and more lively than I imagined they would, with gorgeous tonal balance and excellent sense of space and tonal balance.

Harry

 

RE: Questions for Salectric and Lokie re P15LL, posted on April 24, 2017 at 12:05:29
lokie
Audiophile

Posts: 1234
Location: Georgia, USA
Joined: January 28, 2003
Well done sir. You get a cookie.

I recently took out all the wool lining and replaced w bracing. There is only padding on the back wall now. Much better- huge improvement in micro-detail, tighter bass, and no more midbass mud.

I ordered some Russian PIO caps to experiment with. Also thinking about upgrading the sand resisters. I may try the Mills.

Dave Slagle just popped up a picture of a very cool looking LPads on his HIFI Heroin blog.

 

RE: Questions for Salectric and Lokie re P15LL, posted on April 24, 2017 at 12:32:27
bald2
Audiophile

Posts: 153
Location: Oregon
Joined: January 21, 2006
Thanks. That's funny:) I just ate a cupcake.

I know that you're a (fellow) lover of the 32B horn. Have you tried the Emilar Bowties?

 

RE: Questions for Salectric and Lokie re P15LL, posted on April 24, 2017 at 17:44:27
lokie
Audiophile

Posts: 1234
Location: Georgia, USA
Joined: January 28, 2003
I have a pair of Emilar's in the closet. I'll have to check what model but they aren't the bow ties and they aren't 1". My plan is to use them w a JBL 2446 and a TruExtent beryllium diaphragm.

They have a good reputation but I haven't heard them yet.



 

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